4fm encouraging disrespect of our country.

BenedrylPete

A rather one sided political broadcast has just finished on 4fm.
The topic in question was Anglo-Irish relations and the flying of the British union flag/jack outside of the G.P.O.

A roaming reporter was sent out with what (I can admittedly only wager) was an agenda to select a certain type of person from moore street to (poorly) represent one political view.

Meanwhile the no doubt well prepared host would bring up difficult and agenda driven questions and facts to represent his oh so modern, open minded, well educated, righteous, sophisticated, and right-minded political view.
The uninformed member of the public would soon break under the pressure in a jeremy kyle guest fashion.

When our host was finished showing up the interviewee/victim from the comfort of his studio he would present us with a political lecture of how we should think. In the case of accidentally coming up against an informed opinion the emergency escape handle was pulled with a sudden 'thank you goodbye'.
Fortunately for our king...sorry ...host....there was a well informed guest waiting with a rhetoric and political leaning which echoed his own.
What are the odds.

Personally I'd be against the flying of a union flag outside the GPO. I think that should be an illegal act. I believe nobody would flinch if for example there was a rule in Vietnam banning the flying of the American flag at certain sensitive sites. Equally I dont think anyone would question the flying of a German flag at the western wall in Israel. Context should be remembered.

That aside, the lowly tactics used exposed a host with a myopic political view and obvious political agenda who was willing to at least consider using shock jock antics for personal satisfaction and publicity.

I refer to the host taking a vote on whether he should send his reporter to the site of the easter rising to wave a union jack. No thought given to the memories of the dead of that site, or the city or the rest of the country. No consideration of disrespect to our country.

Thankfully he copped on and didnt follow through with his attention seeking antics.

Shock jocking is fine up to a point, where that point is from the stations point of view is dictated by the consequences a radio station faces, among them commercial consequences.

Personally Id draw the line at disrespecting the dead for my own political kicks.

I hope that those reading this will consider who sponsors and advertises on 4fm and how we might disencourage them from disrespecting our countrys history and heritage. Hasnt there been enough trouble.

seachto7

You should get in touch, as he'll probably bring it up again tonight.

The site of the Easter rising is surrounded by tacky casinos, pubs, burger joints, scumbags, counterfeit goods for sale, and druggies. They happen to be there every day of the week, as opposed to a stunt pulled by a shock jock radio show.

Should it be illegal to fly the union flag at the GPO? No. Why? It's provocative, and if you get a broken nose for doing it, then what would one expect.

I'd guess that loads of hotels around Dublin city have the union flag outside them along with other world flags, but nobody cares about that do they?

You can buy English international jersies in some shops in Dublin. The rugby one for example, and some of them used to even have the football one. Did anyone care? Probably not.

The IRA has committed atrocities in more recent times in the UK, a lot more recent than the Rising or the Black and Tans (Warrington, Manchester, Canary Wharf, Birmingham), but they have no problem with us having St Patrick's Day parades there, or idiots walking down the street in tricolours and stupid leprechaun uniforms on Paddy's Day and for international matches.

El_Duderino 09

Ah here OP. I can't think of any great reason to fly a union jack outside the GPO, but your suggestion that it should be illegal is the ramblings of an insulated wolly who is happy with anti(insert foreign nation here) sentiment. If you can't see why he reason for he war of independence is over, then there's not much I can help you with.

On the more egregiously stupid point of removing the freedom to fly a flag... the insurgents died for freedom which you would give away so cheaply. That's an insult to those people and you should be ashamed to suggest something so ridiculous.

Avatar MIA

BenedrylPete wrote: »

Equally I dont think anyone would question the flying of a German flag at the western wall in Israel.

Would the North, South or East walls be acceptable ? :pac:

Get a grip, OP. Leave the fascination and hatred for coloured cloth to the Neanderthals up North.

seachto7

OP. Your reaction is exactly what the show wanted.

neris

BenedrylPete wrote: »

Personally I'd be against the flying of a union flag outside the GPO. I think that should be an illegal act.

This isnt you by any chance op

wnolan1992

seachto7 wrote: »

OP. Your reaction is exactly what the show wanted.

This.

Wanna bet on how many people got wound up enough to send in texts at 20c a pop (or whatever it is). :pac:

It's the MO of the show OP, try and piss off enough people to get people talking on social media about the show. Never take a word that comes out of his mouth on air seriously and you'll be much happier.

BenedrylPete

Maybe one or two genuine points in among the name calling and weak overused memes.
Weak people who cant play the ball so play the man.

Theres something called context.

An edgy joke about a disease might be funny in the pub. And Id defend your right to say it.

An edgy joke about the same disease in the context of the funeral of a victim of that disease just makes you a bit of a prick. Even if you have the right to say it.

And Id be sure to not buy anything from you or your business colleagues.
And Id be sure not to associate myself with you as a large segment of the population might not buy my sandwich rolls and convenience foods and home furnishings.

Why call for someone to snub the memories of the dead. To triumphantly wave the flag of the people who killed them over the spot where they died.

For shock jockery and personal political satisfaction? Money sure talks. Hope they make big bucks from their advertisers.
....those people who pay the host to push his anti nationalist agenda and call for the waving of Britains flag outside the gpo.
We cant stop him, and we cant prevent the flag antics, but we can choose to buy elsewhere.

(Would that be the reaction they wanted)

Maybe I will call in to the show, Im a long term Stern and O+A listener so I know what to expect from real professional shockjocks, rather than a wannabe.

Maybe Ill have my cue cards, facts and emergency friends on standby just in case thing get too scary.

Maybe I can have some ill informed oaf from the rival political demographic on standby so I can make an easy example of him.

Maybe anyone who disagrees with my enlightened right minded view is just a knuckle dragger who is stuck in the past and needs to be more like me.

Maybe Ill wave an iron cross flag at a London war memorial on dday. Whats wrong with that. Its just a flag. Get over it.

El_Duderino 09

BenedrylPete wrote:

Why call for someone to snub the memories of the dead. To triumphantly wave the flag of the people who killed them over the spot where they died.

The people who killed them are almost certainly dead. The country they represented is no longer in control here.

BenedrylPete wrote:

Maybe anyone who disagrees with my enlightened right minded view is just a knuckle dragger who is stuck in the past and needs to be more like me.

I think you're making that point really well whether you realise it or not.

BenedrylPete wrote:

Maybe Ill wave an iron cross flag at a London war memorial on dday. Whats wrong with that. Its just a flag. Get over it.

The head of state of the country who killed those insurgents and head of the military personnel they killed, presented herself at the memorial in glasnevin to pay respect to them.

I hate to break it to you but the war is over. We won our sovereignty and you're behaving like a really poor winner. The queen showed a willingness to put the past behind us.

The high ground trumps the high horse

BenedrylPete

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The people who killed them are almost certainly dead. The country they represented is no longer in control here.



I think you're making that point really well whether you realise it or not.



The head of state of the country who killed those insurgents and head of the military personnel they killed, presented herself at the memorial in glasnevin to pay respect to them.

I hate to break it to you but the war is over. We won our sovereignty and you're behaving like a really poor winner. The queen showed a willingness to put the past behind us.

The high ground trumps the high horse

The institution that killed them isnt dead. Not that it should make a difference that it be dead or not.

2nd point - why make it about me, why not tackle the subject.

Incidentally Ive never worn a Celtic jersey as featured in the meme above. Which is itself photoshopped. Sorry to disappoint.

The queen making peace with Ireland doesnt change every last issue you know. Ive seen that pointed to in the most unusual contexts as though its a magic cure all.

And who gave you the highground btw. Was it by any chance yourself ? Surely not.

I know its asking a lot but could you maybe not wave that one particular flag in that one particular place.

seachto7

Ring in to his show tonight. You are exactly the type he wants on air! You'll get as much room to say what you like I reckon.

El_Duderino 09

BenedrylPete wrote:

The institution that killed them isnt dead. Not that it should make a difference that it be dead or not.

We're talking about the UK, right? Can you never let it drop as long as the UK is in existance?

BenedrylPete wrote:

2nd point - why make it about me, why not tackle the subject.

I apologise.

BenedrylPete wrote:

The queen making peace with Ireland doesnt change every last issue you know. Ive seen that pointed to in the most unusual contexts as though its a magic cure all.

I'm not certain what you're saying here. It doesn't undo any past wrongs but it let's you know which side is stuck in the past and which side is interested in the future. It definately changes things for people who are open to changing their minds.

BenedrylPete wrote:

And who gave you the highground btw. Was it by any chance yourself ? Surely not.

I was saying you are on a high horse and the queen has clearly taken the high ground.

BenedrylPete wrote:

I know its asking a lot but could you maybe not wave that one particular flag in that one particular place.

This is your issue, not mine.

I can't help but think it must be great to have an enemy who doesn't exist any more. They can be the cause of all your woes and will never be able to make reparations. Dealing with reality is much more complicated.

BenedrylPete

Only got the 1 mobile on me right now. House phone not an option.

If they pay the cost and can guarantee anonymity.

What time is sir thatcher broadcasting.

Shannon757

BenedrylPete wrote: »

Only got the 1 mobile on me right now. House phone not an option.

If they pay the cost and can guarantee anonymity.

What time is sir thatcher broadcasting.

From 9pm-11:30 ish.

BenedrylPete

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

We're talking about the UK, right? Can you never let it drop as long as the UK is in existance?



I apologise.



I'm not certain what you're saying here. It doesn't undo any past wrongs but it let's you know which side is stuck in the past and which side is interested in the future. It definately changes things for people who are open to changing their minds.



I was saying you are on a high horse and the queen has clearly taken the high ground.


This is your issue, not mine.

I can't help but think it must be great to have an enemy who doesn't exist any more. They can be the cause of all your woes and will never be able to make reparations. Dealing with reality is much more complicated.

So waving a German iron cross at a London cenotaph on dday.

Would that be (a) forward looking.
Or (b) just inappropriate and needlessly disrespectful?

Let me guess......something something the queen once visited .... you wear Celtic jerseys....sux 2 b u lololol.

Wilberto

You were listening to 4fm for their talk shows? That's your mistake right there. You just don't do that.

seachto7

Maybe this would be better over on the politics forum!!

If you text the show, they'll ring you back.

seachto7

Maybe this would be better over on the politics forum!!

If you text the show, they'll ring you back.

https://www.facebook.com/NiallBoylanAtNight/?fref=ts

BenedrylPete

If anybody wants to copy my op into the politics forum and/or expand on the point then please do.

(Im on a phone and busy at the mo)

Im sure the mods will be ok with it.

Shannon757

Are you going ringing in?

BenedrylPete

Shannon757 wrote: »

Are you going ringing in?

Considering it. Unsure.

Shannon757

BenedrylPete wrote: »

Considering it. Unsure.

Ah go on.

Shannon757

seachto7

Go for it. Boylan was only waiting to rip into people who were giving out earlier. You could have a hop off him.

This is the number (01) 4255 400 but I don't know what the text number is.

seachto7

Go for it. Boylan was only waiting to rip into people who were giving out earlier. You could have a hop off him.

This is the number (01) 4255 400 but I don't know what the text number is.

Shannon757

seachto7 wrote: »

Go for it. Boylan was only waiting to rip into people who were giving out earlier. You could have a hop off him.

This is the number (01) 4255 400 but I don't know what the text number is.

Text is 53544

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

El_Duderino 09

BenedrylPete wrote:

So waving a German iron cross at a London cenotaph on dday. Would that be (a) forward looking. Or (b) just inappropriate and needlessly disrespectful?

Hard to say a moron would almost certainly be offended. Most normal people would stay calm and laugh at the moron waving the iron cross and the other morons getting upset about it. Where would you be in this scenario?

It would almost certainly take EDL types to be really offended by the gesture. You should Google the EDL. You might have a lot in common with them

BenedrylPete wrote:

Let me guess......something something the queen once visited .... you wear Celtic jerseys....sux 2 b u lololol.

I didn't say anything about celtic a jersey. It doesn't look like you understood the point about the queen's gestures. Would you like me to explain it again?

Shannon757

BenedrylPete wrote: »

A rather one sided political broadcast has just finished on 4fm.
The topic in question was Anglo-Irish relations and the flying of the British union flag/jack outside of the G.P.O.

A roaming reporter was sent out with what (I can admittedly only wager) was an agenda to select a certain type of person from moore street to (poorly) represent one political view.

Meanwhile the no doubt well prepared host would bring up difficult and agenda driven questions and facts to represent his oh so modern, open minded, well educated, righteous, sophisticated, and right-minded political view.
The uninformed member of the public would soon break under the pressure in a jeremy kyle guest fashion.

When our host was finished showing up the interviewee/victim from the comfort of his studio he would present us with a political lecture of how we should think. In the case of accidentally coming up against an informed opinion the emergency escape handle was pulled with a sudden 'thank you goodbye'.
Fortunately for our king...sorry ...host....there was a well informed guest waiting with a rhetoric and political leaning which echoed his own.
What are the odds.

Personally I'd be against the flying of a union flag outside the GPO. I think that should be an illegal act. I believe nobody would flinch if for example there was a rule in Vietnam banning the flying of the American flag at certain sensitive sites. Equally I dont think anyone would question the flying of a German flag at the western wall in Israel. Context should be remembered.

That aside, the lowly tactics used exposed a host with a myopic political view and obvious political agenda who was willing to at least consider using shock jock antics for personal satisfaction and publicity.

I refer to the host taking a vote on whether he should send his reporter to the site of the easter rising to wave a union jack. No thought given to the memories of the dead of that site, or the city or the rest of the country. No consideration of disrespect to our country.

Thankfully he copped on and didnt follow through with his attention seeking antics.

Shock jocking is fine up to a point, where that point is from the stations point of view is dictated by the consequences a radio station faces, among them commercial consequences.

Personally Id draw the line at disrespecting the dead for my own political kicks.

I hope that those reading this will consider who sponsors and advertises on 4fm and how we might disencourage them from disrespecting our countrys history and heritage. Hasnt there been enough trouble.

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You two should both ring in.

BenedrylPete

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Hard to say a moron would almost certainly be offended. Most normal people would stay calm and laugh at the moron waving the iron cross and the other morons getting upset about it. Where would you be in this scenario?

It would almost certainly take EDL types to be really offended by the gesture. You should Google the EDL. You might have a lot in common with them



I didn't say anything about celtic a jersey. It doesn't look like you understood the point about the queen's gestures. Would you like me to explain it again?

Right so no (a) or (b).

Just a cowardly passive insult and comparison to the edl.

Shannon757

BenedrylPete wrote: »

Right so no (a) or (b).

Just a cowardly passive insult and comparison to the edl.

So are you going on?

BenedrylPete

Shannon757 wrote: »

So are you going on?

Listening, there seems to be a different angle of discussion to what was going on earlier.

Shannon757

BenedrylPete wrote: »

Listening, there seems to be a different angle of discussion to what was going on earlier.

Fair enough.

Technocentral

BenedrylPete wrote:

A roaming reporter was sent out with what (I can admittedly only wager) was an agenda to select a certain type of person from moore street to (poorly) represent one political view.

BenedrylPete wrote:

A rather one sided political broadcast has just finished on 4fm. The topic in question was Anglo-Irish relations and the flying of the British union flag/jack outside of the G.P.O.

BenedrylPete wrote:

Meanwhile the no doubt well prepared host would bring up difficult and agenda driven questions and facts to represent his oh so modern, open minded, well educated, righteous, sophisticated, and right-minded political view. The uninformed member of the public would soon break under the pressure in a jeremy kyle guest fashion.

BenedrylPete wrote:

When our host was finished showing up the interviewee/victim from the comfort of his studio he would present us with a political lecture of how we should think. In the case of accidentally coming up against an informed opinion the emergency escape handle was pulled with a sudden 'thank you goodbye'. Fortunately for our king...sorry ...host....there was a well informed guest waiting with a rhetoric and political leaning which echoed his own. What are the odds.

BenedrylPete wrote:

A rather one sided political broadcast has just finished on 4fm. The topic in question was Anglo-Irish relations and the flying of the British union flag/jack outside of the G.P.O.

BenedrylPete wrote:

A roaming reporter was sent out with what (I can admittedly only wager) was an agenda to select a certain type of person from moore street to (poorly) represent one political view.

BenedrylPete wrote:

Meanwhile the no doubt well prepared host would bring up difficult and agenda driven questions and facts to represent his oh so modern, open minded, well educated, righteous, sophisticated, and right-minded political view. The uninformed member of the public would soon break under the pressure in a jeremy kyle guest fashion.

BenedrylPete wrote:

When our host was finished showing up the interviewee/victim from the comfort of his studio he would present us with a political lecture of how we should think. In the case of accidentally coming up against an informed opinion the emergency escape handle was pulled with a sudden 'thank you goodbye'. Fortunately for our king...sorry ...host....there was a well informed guest waiting with a rhetoric and political leaning which echoed his own. What are the odds.

BenedrylPete wrote:

A rather one sided political broadcast has just finished on 4fm. The topic in question was Anglo-Irish relations and the flying of the British union flag/jack outside of the G.P.O.

BenedrylPete wrote:

A roaming reporter was sent out with what (I can admittedly only wager) was an agenda to select a certain type of person from moore street to (poorly) represent one political view.

BenedrylPete wrote:

Meanwhile the no doubt well prepared host would bring up difficult and agenda driven questions and facts to represent his oh so modern, open minded, well educated, righteous, sophisticated, and right-minded political view. The uninformed member of the public would soon break under the pressure in a jeremy kyle guest fashion.

BenedrylPete wrote:

I hope that those reading this will consider who sponsors and advertises on 4fm and how we might disencourage them from disrespecting our countrys history and heritage. Hasnt there been enough trouble.

Who listens to 4fm for current affairs or politics (or music for that matter!)? Checkout RTE1 and Newstalk for more sensible debate.

El_Duderino 09

BenedrylPete wrote:

Right so no (a) or (b).

Why would the only options for waving an iron cross be: forward looking or disrespectful?

The queen waved branches and leaves at a war memorial in Glasnevin and it wasn't disrespectful. If she farted on a white lily at the same monument, it would have been disrespectful.

BenedrylPete wrote:

Just a cowardly passive insult and comparison to the edl.

The comparison between the mentality of EDL morons and... people with the views your espousing now, is valid. Strident, unable to comprehend new information, certain they have been offended, enjoy playing with flags etc.. similar to flag enthusiasts up north. They are too cheeks if the same arse. Same mentality. They have a lot in common.

BenedrylPete

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Why would the only options for waving an iron cross be: forward looking or disrespectful?

The queen waved branches and leaves at a war memorial in Glasnevin and it wasn't disrespectful. If she farted on a white lily at the same monument, it would have been disrespectful.



The comparison between the mentality of EDL morons and... people with the views your espousing now, is valid. Strident, unable to comprehend new information, certain they have been offended, enjoy playing with flags etc.. similar to flag enthusiasts up north. They are too cheeks if the same arse. Same mentality. They have a lot in common.

The continuous insults only work against you.

The flying of a flag, found by a demographic to be provocative, at a memorial site is a good comparison of similarities for both the bundeswehr cross at a cenotaph, or the union jack at an Irish site such as the gpo.

It is either appropriate or inappropriate in both cases. You cant really be ok with one and not the other without some hypocrisy.

The queens opinion doesnt really come into it.

So would someone disliking a bundeswehr cross being waved in front of a ww2 memorial make them a knuckledragger, moron etc ?

Stealthfins

Not the fleg again

El_Duderino 09

BenedrylPete wrote:

The continuous insults only work against you.

Only if you can't understand them.

BenedrylPete wrote:

The flying of a flag, found by a demographic to be provocative, at a memorial site is a good comparison of similarities for both the bundeswehr cross at a cenotaph, or the union jack at an Irish site such as the gpo.

The simple existance of a flag at a site of significance to you, is offensive? No mal intent necessary? Jesus put your big girl panties on and get over it.

BenedrylPete wrote:

It is either appropriate or inappropriate in both cases. You cant really be ok with one and not the other without some hypocrisy.

No it isn't. It's a matter of historical fact. These weer symbols which were used by the British and German troops. If you want your historical celebrations to be flavoured with bitterness and hatred, fair enough. If you want to celebrate history fir the sake of its significance, then those symbols need to represent present day mal intent to be offensive.

BenedrylPete wrote:

The queens opinion doesnt really come into it.

Then why bring it up?

BenedrylPete wrote:

So would someone disliking a bundeswehr cross being waved in front of a ww2 memorial make them a knuckledragger, moron etc ?

If it's waved with mal intent it's bad. If it's there as part of the history of reality, then it's not bad. Option 3, if you're a knuckledragger or a moron you're free to be offended in either scenario.

Where do you fit in? Seriously, I've answered all your questions. Tell me what you think.

Shannon757

Stealthfins wrote: »

Not the fleg again

What fleg?

BenedrylPete

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Only if you can't understand them.


The simple existance of a flag at a site of significance to you, is offensive? No mal intent necessary? Jesus put your big girl panties on and get over it.


No it isn't. It's a matter of historical fact. These weer symbols which were used by the British and German troops. If you want your historical celebrations to be flavoured with bitterness and hatred, fair enough. If you want to celebrate history fir the sake of its significance, then those symbols need to represent present day mal intent to be offensive.



Then why bring it up?



If it's waved with mal intent it's bad. If it's there as part of the history of reality, then it's not bad. Option 3, if you're a knuckledragger or a moron you're free to be offended in either scenario.

Where do you fit in? Seriously, I've answered all your questions. Tell me what you think.

If you did answer the question it is lost somewhere in those fractured ramblings.

Lost in the insults and loaded questions.

I think theres no need to have a union flag specificly placed at the GPO for celebrations or at any other time.
And the presenting/waving of such a flag there should be seen as disrespect to the memories of those that died there and throughout the country.

So yeah, go ahead and call me some names.

However I think many British people would echo the sentiment if you merely replace 'GPO' with 'cenotaph' and 'union jack' with 'iron cross'.

And no they wouldnt necessarily all be edl members.

El_Duderino 09

BenedrylPete wrote: »

If you did answer the question it is lost somewhere in those fractured ramblings.

Lost in the insults and loaded questions.

I think theres no need to have a union flag specificly placed at the GPO for celebrations or at any other time.
And the presenting/waving of such a flag there should be seen as disrespect to the memories of those that died there and throughout the country.

So yeah, go ahead and call me some names.

However I think many British people would echo the sentiment if you merely replace 'GPO' with 'cenotaph' and 'union jack' with 'iron cross'.

And no they wouldnt necessarily all be edl members.

Ok. This is offensive


This is not offensive.

I one is using symbols for an explicitly offensive purpose.

The other is the a symbol of the Crown, at a site of great significance to the Irish insurgents of 1916.

Offence isn't necessary. It's optional. Taking offense when none was offered, is theft.

BenedrylPete

Subjective.
Who shall serve as arbiter of what is or isnt offensive.

I choose common sense and context.

Dont wave a stars and stripes at a Hanoi war memorial. American forces caused hundreds of thousands of deaths there.

Dont wave a sickle hammer flag at a Warsaw war memorial. Communist forced caused hundreds of thousands of deaths there.

Dont wave an iron cross at a London blitz memorial, German forces caused tens of thousands of deaths there.

Dont wave a union jack at an Irish war memorial, British forced caused hundreds of thousands deaths there.

Oh no wait thats different.

(Also thats the queen at the garden not a flag in the gpo...yes specsavers)

El_Duderino 09

BenedrylPete wrote:

(Also thats the queen at the garden not a flag in the gpo...yes specsavers)

Is it just the GPO? Why the GPO and not the garden of remembrance?

The queen is a symbol. She's the symbolic head of the union, represented by the union jack. If she can be at the gate of remembrance without causing offense, then you have attached unnecessary baggage to the flag. That's a you problem.

Just to clarify, we're you offended by the Queen in that photo?

El_Duderino 09

BenedrylPete wrote:

Subjective. Who shall serve as arbiter of what is or isnt offensive.

Us. We're discussing the topic.

BenedrylPete wrote:

I choose common sense and context.

That's exactly what I presented you with. Two contrasting contexts. One is overtly offensive, the other could only be offensive to a moron but is equally symbolic if the United Kingdom at a place of significance to irish republicans. Did you manage to find the second image offensive?

BenedrylPete

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Us. We're discussing the topic.



That's exactly what I presented you with. Two contrasting contexts. One is overtly offensive, the other could only be offensive to a moron but is equally symbolic if the United Kingdom at a place of significance to irish republicans. Did you manage to find the second image offensive?

Well no, but thats because shes a woman making a one off visit during a sealed off high profile ceremonial event which included an almost apology and required the presence of the president.

To feature a union flag in the GPO however is to place the very symbol that the rebels died fighting on their place of death. I suggest you place a luftwaffe cross on the battle of Britain memorial....yeah thought not.

You need to accept the fact that although Britain is the worlds best friend these days, that used to factually be quite the opposite. And while it might be nice to forget that we still owe it to certain peoples memories to not hang the flag they knew to represent tyranny, the flag of the forces that killed them in battle or executed them over their place of death.

Theres literally thousands of other places where you can wave it to your hearts desire. So why insist on the one context where it would disrespect our countrys history. And the memories of the fallen.

prinzeugen

BenedrylPete wrote: »

Subjective.
Who shall serve as arbiter of what is or isnt offensive.

I choose common sense and context.

Dont wave a stars and stripes at a Hanoi war memorial. American forces caused hundreds of thousands of deaths there.

Dont wave a sickle hammer flag at a Warsaw war memorial. Communist forced caused hundreds of thousands of deaths there.

Dont wave an iron cross at a London blitz memorial, German forces caused tens of thousands of deaths there.

Dont wave a union jack at an Irish war memorial, British forced caused hundreds of thousands deaths there.

Oh no wait thats different.

(Also thats the queen at the garden not a flag in the gpo...yes specsavers)

Dont think a "Iron Cross flag" (there were several) would bother many at a blitz memorial..

A Nazi one might piss a few folk off though..

I suggest you research German flags.

eeguy

BenedrylPete wrote: »

Well no, but thats because shes a woman making a one off visit during a sealed off high profile ceremonial event which included an almost apology and required the presence of the president.

To feature a union flag in the GPO however is to place the very symbol that the rebels died fighting on their place of death. I suggest you place a luftwaffe cross on the battle of Britain memorial....yeah thought not.

I think you need to get this chip off your shoulder.
Arguments like that only perpetuate the hostility that both our countries should have grown out of.
Yes Ireland suffered centuries of oppression but we're an independent nation and one of the benefits is that we can fly a union flag from the GPO as a mark of mutual respect rather than subservience.

Ito the mark of a great nation that we can forgive and move on, rather than be dogged by centuries old grudges against a country that is now friendly.

BenedrylPete

prinzeugen wrote: »

Dont think a "Iron Cross flag" (there were several) would bother many at a blitz memorial..

A Nazi one might piss a few folk off though..

I suggest you research German flags.

Very well.

Wikipedia: Iron cross.

Article with picture of balkenkreuz.

Clicks on balkenkreuz. Picture of ww2 luftwaffe plane.

Fancy that.

No, something tells me it wouldnt be the most welcome or appropriate symbol to wave around London war memorials on remembrance day.

BenedrylPete

eeguy wrote: »

I think you need to get this chip off your shoulder.
Arguments like that only perpetuate the hostility that both our countries should have grown out of.
Yes Ireland suffered centuries of oppression but we're an independent nation and one of the benefits is that we can fly a union flag from the GPO as a mark of mutual respect rather than subservience.

Ito the mark of a great nation that we can forgive and move on, rather than be dogged by centuries old grudges against a country that is now friendly.

Even better if we can move on while simultaneously respecting the dead.
Get the chip off your shoulder, dont hold a grudge against the rebels who occupied the gpo, or the republic.
Lets move on and leave their memories in peace.

As Im sure a great nation like Germany feels no need to hang its flag on the cenotaph, lets allow our friendly neighbor Britain the same opportunity to also not force its symbols on our war sites, to show a mutual understanding.

El_Duderino 09

BenedrylPete wrote:

Well no, but thats because shes a woman making a one off visit during a sealed off high profile ceremonial event which included an almost apology and required the presence of the president.

What about the union flag as part of a ceremonial remembrance of the reality if history? It wasn't offensive when the queen herself was at the garden of remembrance in that picture above. Why would it necessarily be offensive. Do you think foreign flags can only be used to cause offence?

2 corrections to your quote above: 1 the queen wasn't just a woman when she was at the garden of remembrance, she was there in capacity of head of state. It was the British state paying respect to the insurgents.
2, while she didn't say 'sorry' it was most definitely an apology. Diplomacy works in subtlety. The queen paying respect to people who killed British servicemen, is a flat out apology in diplomatic terms. She acknowledged that her state had acted wrongly in the speech at Dublin castle. I accept that might not satisfy the bloodlust of a moron who is stuck in the past.

BenedrylPete wrote:

You need to accept the fact that although Britain is the worlds best friend these days, that used to factually be quite the opposite..

I know that Britain was a tyrannical empire (Inn the past). We both accept that Britain was a sh1tty colonial power (Inn the past). Why be so angry about it now? We're you personally offended by Britain's rule of Ireland?

eeguy wrote:

And while it might be nice to forget that we still owe it to certain peoples memories to not hang the flag they knew to represent tyranny, the flag of the forces that killed them in battle or executed them over their place of death.

Nobody is saying we should forget the insurgents. They fought and died to change the circumstances in the country. They made it possible for us to create out own future as a sovereign nation. That's a massive goal and is worthy of remembrance and commeration. They did not fight perpetuate hate against the British flag. What a trivial thing think. You cheapen their sacrifice by thinking that they were morons, fighting against a flag or that they wouldn't recognise that the flag no longer represents a threat of tyranny. Thru would have loved the idea that we are equals with the sovereign nations. We can fly any flag anywhere in the country because we are in control of our own country.

BenedrylPete wrote:

Theres literally thousands of other places where you can wave it to your hearts desire. So why insist on the one context where it would disrespect our countrys history. And the memories of the fallen.

As I said already, I have no desire to fly a union jack anywhere. I resent the idea that you think there's justification for banning flying it anywhere just because you're more fond of the past than present reality.

eeguy wrote:

I think you need to get this chip off your shoulder. Arguments like that only perpetuate the hostility that both our countries should have grown out of. Yes Ireland suffered centuries of oppression but we're an independent nation and one of the benefits is that we can fly a union flag from the GPO as a mark of mutual respect rather than subservience.

Exactly. We can choose to be involved in mutual respect or choose to stay in the past where we were Britain's Bitch. Some people have trouble accepting the reality that we won that battle and now we have modern day problems to deal with. Problems we solved on the last century should stay in the last century

seachto7

OP, Noel Gallagher's Union Jack guitar must have really peed you off! What a sell out!