General Election - Feb 26th Megathread

Jack Killian

Jack Killian wrote: »

Still 7 times what most people got.

Who are these most people? Anyone on a similar salary would have seen a similar increase. Working couples will have done even better as the household sees an increase in both salaries.

Jack Killian

Jaylah Important Trailblazer wrote: »

Who are these most people? Anyone on a similar salary would have seen a similar increase. Working couples will have done even better as the household sees an increase in both salaries.

Well I know how much extra of my own money I was allowed keep, and I know lots of people who earn slightly more or slightly less than me, in a wide range of different jobs and roles. so it's a solid enough base to extrapolate from.

The_Kew_Tour

I don't care who in charge once it's not Sinn Fein.

Christ seeing those lefty wannabes getting in make me sick and that's saying something considering what's there, and other options

KomradeBishop

Something important to note about the coming elections: Irish citizens abroad - i.e. our huge number of emigrants - do not have a vote.

We have been waiting for a promised Electoral Commission (which we're supposed to wait on, for allowing overseas votes) from two separate governments now - and fixing this was a promise Fine Gael made, but what is taking so long?

Almost a decade we have been waiting for this, and it seems like it has been conveniently delayed again and again, and this time until after the general election, almost as if the purpose were so that Fine Gael would not have to deal with the protest votes from emigrants - who obviously would have most reason to vote against Fine Gael (for example...).

To me, this seems almost perfectly deferred/orchestrated, in order to disenfranchise emigrants, and to erode the voting power of groups who would oppose government.


Remember, when it comes to Irish emigrants:

Ireland has the highest percentage of people living abroad out of all OECD countries. One out of every six Irish-born people currently resides in another country, illustrating the devastating and enduring impact the global financial crisis has had on the country.

https://d28wbuch0jlv7v.cloudfront.net/images/infografik/normal/chartoftheday_4237_the_countries_with_the_most_people_living_overseas_n.jpg
https://www.statista.com/chart/4237/the-countries-with-the-most-people-living-overseas/

Zaph

How is is disenfranchising people who don't live in the country? I certainly don't want the government of the country I'm living in decided by a protest vote from thousands of people who no longer live here. I appreciate that many don't live here any more out of necessity rather than choice, but what is there to be gained for those people by giving them a vote in a country they no longer live in?

KomradeBishop

Zaph wrote: »

How is is disenfranchising people who don't live in the country? I certainly don't want the government of the country I'm living in decided by a protest vote from thousands of people who no longer live here. I appreciate that many don't live here any more out of necessity rather than choice, but what is there to be gained for those people by giving them a vote in a country they no longer live in?

To disenfranchise someone, is to deprive them of their rights as a citizen - a person who moves out of the country is still a citizen.

Ireland is actually outside of international norms, by disenfranchising such citizens:

Ireland is out of step with the majority of democratic countries in disenfranchising citizens once they move abroad, the Votes for Irish Citizens Abroad (VICA) campaign said on Wednesday.

The comment came ahead of a Dáil debate on Friday on a report by the Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs, published last November, that recommended Irish emigrants be granted the right to vote.

This followed criticism from the European Commission, which said Ireland was disenfranchising its citizens living in other EU member states by not providing them with voting rights.

More than 120 countries have provisions for their citizens abroad to cast a ballot, but Ireland does not currently allow emigrants to vote in presidential or Dáil elections.
...

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ireland-out-of-step-on-voting-rights-for-emigrants-1.2400705

Jack Killian

Zaph wrote: »

How is is disenfranchising people who don't live in the country? I certainly don't want the government of the country I'm living in decided by a protest vote from thousands of people who no longer live here. I appreciate that many don't live here any more out of necessity rather than choice, but what is there to be gained for those people by giving them a vote in a country they no longer live in?

I've mixed feelings on this one.

On the one hand I think like you, and wonder why someone who doesn't have to suffer the consequences should have a say.

On the other hand I see the entrenched "his family always votes / defends FF/FG/local parish pump muppet (delete as appropriate) as I wonder whether those who left in disgust or out of necessity looking in from abroad might have more luck in getting us decent governance for a change.

KomradeBishop

Jack Killian wrote: »

I've mixed feelings on this one.

On the one hand I think like you, and wonder why someone who doesn't have to suffer the consequences should have a say.

On the other hand I see the entrenched "his family always votes / defends FF/FG/local parish pump muppet (delete as appropriate) as I wonder whether those who left in disgust or out of necessity looking in from abroad might have more luck in getting us decent governance for a change.

In a way though, many of them have suffered a pretty enormous consequence, in having to leave their family/friends/community behind.

One thing I may agree with though, is that perhaps there should be a time-limit on emigrants right to vote, after leaving - that would make sense.

Zaph

KomradeBishop wrote: »

More than 120 countries have provisions for their citizens abroad to cast a ballot, but Ireland does not currently allow emigrants to vote in presidential or Dáil elections.

I've no problem with citizens abroad voting in presidential elections as it won't have any direct consequences on the amount of taxes I pay, the quality of the public services I use, etc. But several hundred thousand people registering a protest vote most certainly will. If overseas citizens were to get votes there'd have to be certain restrictions like them voting to elect X number of TDs to represent them as a constituency or only allowing people who have been out of the country a maximum number of years to vote. What use is it allowing someone who has lived in London or Boston for the last 30 years and has no intention of returning to Ireland vote in a general election?

KomradeBishop

Zaph wrote: »

I've no problem with citizens abroad voting in presidential elections as it won't have any direct consequences on the amount of taxes I pay, the quality of the public services I use, etc. But several hundred thousand people registering a protest vote most certainly will. If overseas citizens were to get votes there'd have to be certain restrictions like them voting to elect X number of TDs to represent them as a constituency or only allowing people who have been out of the country a maximum number of years to vote. What use is it allowing someone who has lived in London or Boston for the last 30 years and has no intention of returning to Ireland vote in a general election?

The article I posted applies equally to general elections - it's just the wording of the article which made it appear not to.

I agree you may have a point on the timescale issue, so as I said in my previous post, I may agree with there being a limit on how long a person can be away until they lose their right to vote.

Any restrictions past that, would need a lot of justifying.

ArtSmart

Zaph wrote: »

I've no problem with citizens abroad voting in presidential elections as it won't have any direct consequences on the amount of taxes I pay, the quality of the public services I use, etc. But several hundred thousand people registering a protest vote most certainly will. If overseas citizens were to get votes there'd have to be certain restrictions like them voting to elect X number of TDs to represent them as a constituency or only allowing people who have been out of the country a maximum number of years to vote. What use is it allowing someone who has lived in London or Boston for the last 30 years and has no intention of returning to Ireland vote in a general election?

Agreed. A number of conditions should attach, if it's to happen at all.

KomradeBishop

ArtSmart wrote: »

Agreed. A number of conditions should attach, if it's to happen at all.

If you're to strip a citizen of their rights, then tbh, that's the argument needing substantial justification - the default position should be the citizen keeping their rights.

ninebeanrows

RobertKK wrote: »

The latest poll has Labour being wiped out and FG will probably lose at least 20 seats, they will be a long way from being in government.

I would not be surprised if FF ended up pushing FG for most seats. Enda has not been impressive in the live debates, while Micheal Martin has been generally accepted as being the best performer of the bigger parties so far during the campaign.
I think it is like in the UK where many didn't tell the pollsters they would vote for the Tories, and like in our local elections, FF ended up with most votes and seats despite polls saying FG was the most popular.

Maybe FG will be supporting a FF government...

#DELUDED

ninebeanrows

Here is something to throw into the mix... There is potential for it to be a cold and snowy day next Friday.......That would keep lots of elderly at home and potential to see bump in support for the left.

Galwayguy35

Weathercheck wrote: »

Here is something to throw into the mix... There is potential for it to be a cold and snowy day next Friday.......That would keep lots of elderly at home and potential to see bump in support for the left.

Older people are the safest bet IMO when it comes to elections, they value their vote even those in poor health have a steely resolve when it comes to making it to the polling station.

Galwayguy35

That young fella (who looked like he wasn't even old enough to vote) telling Joan Burton to "stick her water charges up in her fiscal space" could do with learning some manners.


You can strongly disagree with someone without insulting them, I think he was just looking for his few minutes of fame and he got it too, all the FB crowd thought he was great.

KomradeBishop

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Something important to note about the coming elections: Irish citizens abroad - i.e. our huge number of emigrants - do not have a vote.

And rightly so, only people living here should have a vote. People living abroad made their decision to leave and should have no say in the running of Ireland when living elsewhere.

Why should someone living in another country have any influence over the running of the country here? They are not being affected by the day to day running of the county and the idea they should have a say equal to those of us living here is crazy.

Galwayguy35

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

That young fella (who looked like he wasn't even old enough to vote) telling Joan Burton to "stick her water charges up in her fiscal space" could do with learning some manners.

You can strongly disagree with someone without insulting them, I think he was just looking for his few minutes of fame and he got it too, all the FB crowd thought he was great.

He was a little scut and could have done with the toe of a boot delivered forcefully to his arse.

I don't like Burton, but hr asked a question and she answered. It was, as you say, like he was desperate to get some affirmation from others and playing o the camera.

osarusan

I don't think people who live abroad* should have a vote in any election or referendum.


*apart from diplomats and the like who are posted abroad by the state.

CFlat

Weathercheck wrote: »

Here is something to throw into the mix... There is potential for it to be a cold and snowy day next Friday.......That would keep lots of elderly at home and potential to see bump in support for the left.

If any of my elderly neighbours can't get to their polling station because of the weather I'll make myself available to bring them. I assume you'll do the same.

tomwaterford

osarusan wrote: »

I don't think people who live abroad* should have a vote in any election or referendum.


*apart from diplomats and the like who are posted abroad by the state.

I do think they should have vote on referendums and president....but not general election

As hopefully one day they'd be returning to ireland and the referendum would be affecting them...and the president is to represent ireland abroad etc

CFlat

osarusan wrote: »

I don't think people who live abroad* should have a vote in any election or referendum.


*apart from diplomats and the like who are posted abroad by the state.

All army personnel working abroad also get a postal vote.

Mint Sauce

Really want to use my preferential vote in the hope that some of the smaller parties get a few TDs in to keep an eye on the bigger parties, ie, them most likely to win, and that the voice or policies of the smaller parties canbe pushed or highlighted in the Dail.

Only thing, not sure to give what I would consider the smaller party my first preference, to increase their chances, or my 2nd/3rd/4th preferences to just get them in.

Plan to includ 3 different parties and maybe an independent in my first 4 preferences. Then the other candidates for them parties, my least liked parties, and the reamining independents for my remaining preferences.

As above, just not sure on the order yet.

osarusan

CFlat wrote: »

All army personnel working abroad also get a postal vote.

yeah that is fine too, they are abroad on behalf of the state.

thomasj

Haha, sorry if posted already just had to laugh at this

https://twitter.com/KeithMcCo/status/700750797181730817?s=09

Baggy Trousers

Enda has told his TDs to scare the bejaysus out of the electorate this week so they will stick with his inept status quo.

“Yesterday Fine Gael said it was going to emphasise personal attacks on Micheál Martin for the final days of the campaign - and today has confirmed this, with one senior strategist stating: ‘We will scare the **** out of them [the Irish people] in the last ten days’.

We desperately need to get away from civil war parties and politics.

Please don't vote FF, FG, Labour or SF. So much baggage, corruption, cute hoorism etc. Anybody else will do!

Richard Hillman

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Enda has told his TDs to scare the bejaysus out of the electorate this week so they will stick his inept status quo.

You can't just throw out a quote like that and not put a source to it :pac:

Baggy Trousers

Richard Hillman wrote: »

You can't just throw out a quote like that and not put a source to it :pac:

Sorry...

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/election-2016-enda-kenny-claims-economy-at-risk-from-instability-1.2534430

tomwaterford

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Enda has told his TDs to scare the bejaysus out of the electorate this week so they will stick with his inept status quo.



We desperately need to get away from civil war parties and politics.

Please don't vote FF, FG, Labour or SF. So much baggage, corruption, cute hoorism etc. Anybody else will do!

Is there any history of the politics of fear working out in ireland though??

Seems a huge gamble for fg policy makers to take....are they polling that badly internally??

Really surprised how badly they are doing and getting bogged down in this messing

osarusan

Richard Hillman wrote: »

You can't just throw out a quote like that and not put a source to it :pac:

That's Billy Kelleher saying what Fine Gael's tactics are, rather than FG saying it themselves.

Baggy Trousers

osarusan wrote: »

That's Billy Kelleher saying what Fine Gael's tactics are, rather than FG saying it themselves.

Harris was in full fear factor rhetoric on Newstalk this morning. The mood music has most definitely changed. Bruton was similar yesterday. He said a non FG government would bring instability and ruin the economic recovery.

suicide_circus

What parties are advocating the retention of the USC? They'll get a preference from me.

Satriale

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Harris was in full fear factor rhetoric on Newstalk this morning. The mood music has most definitely changed. Bruton was similar yesterday. He said a non FG government would bring instability and ruin the economic recovery.

Harris, the same buachaill who's praise for Bertie Aherne and FF helped pushed them over the line in 2007. That did wonders for the country!

Why people listen to that hound-hunting, fox-running, eejit i'll never know.

Sunnyisland

Satriale wrote: »

Harris, the same buachaill who's praise for Bertie Aherne and FF helped pushed them over the line in 2007. That did wonders for the country!

Why people listen to that hound-hunting, fox-running, eejit i'll never know.

He saying this morning that we should vote FG AND FF , you can smell the fear from within the 3 parties and the media of the changes that should come about after next Friday.

KomradeBishop

Jaylah Important Trailblazer wrote: »

And rightly so, only people living here should have a vote. People living abroad made their decision to leave and should have no say in the running of Ireland when living elsewhere.

Why should someone living in another country have any influence over the running of the country here? They are not being affected by the day to day running of the county and the idea they should have a say equal to those of us living here is crazy.

In a functioning democracy, why should any citizen be stripped of their rights and disenfranchised, when moving abroad? I would agree with removing their right to vote, only after a time period, having been away for many years.

Given that that is a serious breach of democratic integrity - and stripping citizens of one of their most important rights - and given that the majority of the democratic world supports an overseas vote, the onus would be on you to provide a compelling argument against it.

As I said in another thread: It's not a question of 'if' people will receive a vote, it is already the political consensus, that overseas voters will get a vote - this will happen, and two governments now have been delaying this for almost a decade - which is not a surprise, because it seems awfully convenient that this is going to prevent a very significant number of people pissed off with Fine Gael, from voting.

JustTheOne

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Enda has told his TDs to scare the bejaysus out of the electorate this week so they will stick with his inept status quo.



We desperately need to get away from civil war parties and politics.

Please don't vote FF, FG, Labour or SF. So much baggage, corruption, cute hoorism etc. Anybody else will do!

The senior strategist is a ff election campaigner.

Now for days I have been asking for a link to where a fg person said they will "scare the **** out of the electorate" and no-one has provided one yet.


Maybe you can provide one?

JustTheOne

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

Sorry...

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/election-2016-enda-kenny-claims-economy-at-risk-from-instability-1.2534430

Em there is nothing in that quoting a fg person saying the will "scare the **** out of the electorate"

KomradeBishop

JustTheOne wrote: »

The senior strategist is a ff election campaigner.

Now for days I have been asking for a link to where a fg person said they will "scare the **** out of the electorate" and no-one has provided one yet.


Maybe you can provide one?

Eh? We can see for ourselves the kind of scaremongering they are engaging in, that their strategy is to try to scare the population into voting FG - from an earlier post:

Fine Gael's leadership have so little respect for the population, that they are engaging in desperate fear/scare-mongering - treating the population like they have infantile intellectual capacity, as if they can be scared/fooled into voting FG:

Taoiseach Enda Kenny has claimed there could be a “flight” of jobs and capital from Ireland if some alternatives to the Fine Gael-Labour coalition are elected to government.
...
“There are alternatives, but there are consequences to the alternatives,” he said

“I do not want to see the flight from this country of either capital or jobs or lack of investment coming in here."

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/kenny-there-could-be-flight-of-capital-if-alternatives-elected-1.2536813

Pathetic, desperate scaremongering - from a cretinous and largely unmemorable 'leader'. Hopefully we'll be seeing the back of him shortly.

JustTheOne

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Eh? We can see for ourselves the kind of scaremongering they are engaging in - from an earlier post:

Fine Gael's leadership have so little respect for the population, that they are engaging in desperate fear/scare-mongering - treating the population like they have infantile intellectual capacity, as if they can be scared/fooled into voting FG:

Taoiseach Enda Kenny has claimed there could be a “flight” of jobs and capital from Ireland if some alternatives to the Fine Gael-Labour coalition are elected to government.
...
“There are alternatives, but there are consequences to the alternatives,” he said

“I do not want to see the flight from this country of either capital or jobs or lack of investment coming in here."

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/kenny-there-could-be-flight-of-capital-if-alternatives-elected-1.2536813

Pathetic, desperate scaremongering - from a cretinous and largely unmemorable 'leader'. Hopefully we'll be seeing the back of him shortly.

So no actual link to a fg person saying they will "scare the **** out of the electorate"

Who's scaremongering now?

spakman

Richard Bruton v eamon o cuiv on this week. That should ensure a load of undecideds switch to fg

KomradeBishop

JustTheOne wrote: »

So no actual link to a fg person saying they will "scare the **** out of the electorate"

Who's scaremongering now?

Uh, the article itself is showing you Fine Gael's scaremongering. Do you think you're going to convince anybody, that implying there will be 'capital flight' etc. if any 'alternative parties' are elected, is not scaremongering?

Good luck convincing anyone of that...it's plain to see for anyone reading that, that their campaign is based on scaremongering.

Sunnyisland

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/gene-kerrigan-lastditch-pitch-for-the-politics-of-fear-34471314.html

Good reading in that link, one n which I would agree with.

JustTheOne

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Uh, the article itself is showing you Fine Gael's scaremongering. Do you think you're going to convince anybody, that implying there will be 'capital flight' etc. if any 'alternative parties' are elected, is not scaremongering?

Good luck convincing anyone of that...it's plain to see for anyone reading that, that their campaign is based on scaremongering.

So no link to the quote.

This is getting tiresome.

Satriale

JustTheOne wrote: »

The senior strategist is a ff election campaigner.

Now for days I have been asking for a link to where a fg person said they will "scare the **** out of the electorate" and no-one has provided one yet.


Maybe you can provide one?

That FF guy is the link. Do you think he is lying?

KomradeBishop

JustTheOne wrote: »

So no link to the quote.

This is getting tiresome.

Ya just ignore the evidence of Fine Gael's deliberate scaremongering tactics presented above - that they're have such little respect for the public, that they think the public have such infantile intellectual capacity, that they can be scared into voting FG - and where prominent writers in national newspapers above are even referencing it.

State it definitively then: Do you think Fine Gael are deliberately scaremongering or not?

suicide_circus

realies wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/gene-kerrigan/gene-kerrigan-lastditch-pitch-for-the-politics-of-fear-34471314.html

Good reading in that link, one n which I would agree with.

My god, what an awkward writing style

KomradeBishop

KomradeBishop wrote: »

As I said in another thread: It's not a question of 'if' people will receive a vote, it is already the political consensus, that overseas voters will get a vote - this will happen, and two governments now have been delaying this for almost a decade - which is not a surprise, because it seems awfully convenient that this is going to prevent a very significant number of people pissed off with Fine Gael, from voting.

Translation: A majority of voters in Ireland won't vote the way I want them to so on the off chance that those living abroad vote the way I am they should all be allowed influence the outcome from the other otherside of the world.

Can you not see the ridiculous out come you are proposing. A majority of people living in the county want to vote one way and you want a load of people (who you assume of course you don't know who they would vote for) to skew the results.

Let's just say the election was won on the votes of those aboard, you are in a situation where the majority of people living in a county are not represented by the people they voted for, their day to day lives are affected by policy's etc they don't agree with while the people who voted from afar don't really give a damn as they are not living here but are just happy because they "voted out that shower"

To vote in a general election one of the main criteria should be resident and paying your tax in Ireland (those working abroad for the state should of course have a vote also as pointed out by some posters).

Sunnyisland

suicide_circus wrote: »

My god, what an awkward writing style

What you mean ?

Sunnyisland

Micheal Martin is even annoyed at enda,

he was taken aback by Enda Kenny describing people who complain as “whingers” and by a comment from Richard Bruton, who said those who didn't intend to vote Fine Gael weren't using their brains.

Mr Martin said that wasn't good enough in the final days of the campaign.

He described the comments as arrogant

http://www.rte.ie/news/election-2016/2016/0221/769714-martin-dismisses-opinion-polls-appeals-to-voters/

Galwayguy35

Kenny was dead right, some people want everything handed to them on a silver plate while contributing absolutely nothing themselves to society.