General Election - Feb 26th Megathread

JustTheOne

The journal.ie seem very worried after setting out their stall of pro sf, aaa, pbp for years now its full blown attacks on the government coming up the the election.

I think they realise they could loose a lot of their followers when they loose interest after they see the free house, free water, property tax , free everything brigade won't be leading them to a free for all paradise:)

thattequilagirl

thattequilagirl wrote: »

It really bothers me that the West never gets decent representation in government because people vote single-issue politicians in like Michael McGrath. So we have a great farmer and man of the people who can talk about rural issues, but nothing to offer in terms of what we need in a wider sense for health, education and social justice.

Michael McGrath?

thattequilagirl

Deleted User wrote: »

Michael McGrath?

Edited, Michael Fitzmaurice- it's early, Kay?

StewartGriffin

What happened to the pink vote? All those people who don't normally cry but cried for days after the Marriage Referendum, are they not rewarding the Labour party for delivering that historic opportunity?

Or was the whole thing a bit over hyped?

Jack Killian

StewartGriffin wrote: »

What happened to the pink vote? All those people who don't normally cry but cried for days after the Marriage Referendum, are they not rewarding the Labour party for delivering that historic opportunity?

Or was the whole thing a bit over hyped?

They tired of being ridden up the hole like the rest of us ?

saltsun

Deleted User wrote: »

They certainly seem a bit...light on agricultural policy in the manifesto, it seems to be a general "be nice to farmers"...

Deleted User wrote: »

They don't even have a half developed one in some areas, their manifesto is very scant on info about agricultural policy, they have a line or 2 about wind farms, think FF has a 10 page policy document on wind farms alone.

I fully take the point that of course generating such analyses is a laborious process, and they are new. I think they have some very attractive and polished performers in Donnelly, Shortall and Murphy, but they'll need comprehensive policies to attract voters in sufficient droves across rural areas.

https://socialdemocrats.ie/policies/agriculture-and-forestry/

https://www.fiannafail.ie/download/rural-ireland/Wind%20Policy.pdf

Deleted User wrote: »

Considering the boom in agri food under successive Governments, a sector now worth tens of billions to our country, I'm not clear which policies you felt were not implemented.

It sounds like waffle tbh. I noted that SD seem to have very poorly developed policies about agriculture. You said FF ruined the country and have followed up with something about abortion, that credit unions are great and the housing crisis? Across huge swathes of rural Ireland the housing crisis is something we hear about on the radio, we see houses with lights out and the effects of depopulation, not overpopulation. Having policies on agriculture and issues of specific concern to rural Ireland (such as wind farms) is pretty basic.

I'll take "be nice to farmers" over "be nice to big business", which is what the current Minister for tractors and troops is. I'm a farmer in Galway West and I will be voting for Niall O'Tuathail. Is their farming policy well defined, no, it's not. However, I have seen previous FF policy, I have seen current FG policy, and I have seen Labour refuse to discuss Farm Assist previously.

What I can say about the SD candidate in my constituency is that he is proactive and intelligent with a demonstrated capacity to and interest in learning about farming.

Rome wasn't built in a day. I am fed up to the hind teeth with how my sector within farming has been treated by successive Governments. Do I know absolutely how SD will treat agriculture. No, I don't. However I attended a meeting prior to the last election where the then FG party chairman "promised" a "REPS for the West", and after that election his party did everything in their power to fcuk over low income farm families.

I'm no fool, I realise either FG or FF will be the lead party in the next Government, but I intend to demonstrate my dissatisfaction on Friday, in favour of something I hope can be better for farmers and their families, not shareholders and their portfolios.

saltsun

saltsun wrote: »

I'll take "be nice to farmers" over "be nice to big business", which is what the current Minister for tractors and troops is. I'm a farmer in Galway West and I will be voting for Niall O'Tuathail. Is their farming policy well defined, no, it's not. However, I have seen previous FF policy, I have seen current FG policy, and I have seen Labour refuse to discuss Farm Assist previously.

What I can say about the SD candidate in my constituency is that he is proactive and intelligent with a demonstrated capacity to and interest in learning about farming.

Rome wasn't built in a day. I am fed up to the hind teeth with how my sector within farming has been treated by successive Governments. Do I know absolutely how SD will treat agriculture. No, I don't. However I attended a meeting prior to the last election where the then FG party chairman "promised" a "REPS for the West", and after that election his party did everything in their power to fcuk over low income farm families.

I'm no fool, I realise either FG or FF will be the lead party in the next Government, but I intend to demonstrate my dissatisfaction on Friday, in favour of something I hope can be better for farmers and their families, not shareholders and their portfolios.

So...SD have no policies about farmers but you will vote for them on the basis that the candidate in your area might someday learn something about farming? For all you know, they could have a policy that is completely contrary to your wishes, but your crossing your fingers?

I appreciate your dissatisfaction with FF, FG or Labour. I'm not saying you must vote for them at all.

mathie

Deleted User wrote: »

So...SD have no policies about farmers but you will vote for them on the basis that the candidate in your area might someday learn something about farming? For all you know, they could have a policy that is completely contrary to your wishes, but your crossing your fingers?

I appreciate your dissatisfaction with FF, FG or Labour. I'm not saying you must vote for them at all.

Its like flipping random cards in a deck.
You're looking for a red card and so far you've flipped three and they've all been black (FF/FG/Lab)
So you can see why someone would try to flip another card.

keano_afc

JustTheOne wrote: »

The journal.ie seem very worried after setting out their stall of pro sf, aaa, pbp for years now its full blown attacks on the government coming up the the election.

I think they realise they could loose a lot of their followers when they loose interest after they see the free house, free water, property tax , free everything brigade won't be leading them to a free for all paradise:)

They couldnt hide their disappointment that the 8th wasnt discussed last night either. Something else they've thrown their weight behind.

saltsun

Deleted User wrote: »

So...SD have no policies about farmers but you will vote for them on the basis that the candidate in your area might someday learn something about farming? For all you know, they could have a policy that is completely contrary to your wishes, but your crossing your fingers?

I appreciate your dissatisfaction with FF, FG or Labour. I'm not saying you must vote for them at all.

Not at all, I know he's already learned a great deal about farming and agrees with my no.1 issue in the industry. I know O'Tuathail can receive a briefing, understand it, and recall it at a later date in an unrelated scenario. That's someone I can do business with, will we always agree on everything, I sure hope not. I have personally seen other politicians, and indeed the mired in controversy Agristocracy in IFA, receive similar briefings and demonstrate SFA interest in the issues after.

I'm voting for the Social Democrats for more issues than farming alone, proper governance as I believe this countries services & system are broken and have been for a long time, not eroding the tax base, their (could be stronger) stance against TTIP, and the God awful mess that is health. The established parties have abused my vote for long enough, the other turkeys might vote for Christmas but I'm not going to.

Vote for who ever you like, I'm working to change a situation that sees 80% of European taxpayers money in the form of CAP funding go to only 20% of the farmers in Ireland.

Richard Hillman

Its is disturbing how much of a malaise that the left-wing parties have towards rural Ireland. It is just blatantly obvious that they only care about people of where they can get votes from. Boyd-Barrett was let off in the 7 Way debate for when he was questioned about business in the rural towns. He started waffling on about Garda and Nurses for some reason.

These would be the same types that would be foaming at the mouth at the thought of Maggie Thatcher ignoring the likes of Merseyside because nobody would vote for them anyway.

If any of these left wing parties (Sinn Fein, PBP/AAA etc) had any power they would just build a crap load of houses in Dublin and enhance the Dublin-Centric economy. They couldnt give a **** about people outside of Dublin or large towns. And that is coming from a Dubliner.

saltsun

saltsun wrote: »

Not at all, I know he's already learned a great deal about farming and agrees with my no.1 issue in the industry.

Politician in agreeing with voter shocker!

If you and he, their candidate, agree on the biggest issue in farming, does it appear in the manifesto or was it rejected by the Party? I mean, if a candidate says X is the single biggest issue in a policy area, surely X is in the manifesto in pretty large font?

Richard Hillman

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Its is disturbing how much of a malaise that the left-wing parties have towards rural Ireland. It is just blatantly obvious that they only care about people of where they can get votes from. Boyd-Barrett was let off in the 7 Way debate for when he was questioned about business in the rural towns. He started waffling on about Garda and Nurses for some reason.

These would be the same types that would be foaming at the mouth at the thought of Maggie Thatcher ignoring the likes of Merseyside because nobody would vote for them anyway.

If any of these left wing parties (Sinn Fein, PBP/AAA etc) had any power they would just build a crap load of houses in Dublin and enhance the Dublin-Centric economy. They couldnt give a **** about people outside of Dublin or large towns. And that is coming from a Dubliner.

Why do people vote for the likes of the Healy Raes?

'Cos like them or loath them, they will say a lot more on issues like suicide rates in rural Ireland, rural isolation, the depopulation of the countryside and plain old septic tanks etc. than the Dublin media insisting that the issues are actually gay marriage, abortion and a lack of housing.

saltsun

Deleted User wrote: »

Politician in agreeing with voter shocker!

If you and he, their candidate, agree on the biggest issue in farming, does it appear in the manifesto or was it rejected by the Party? I mean, if a candidate says X is the single biggest issue in a policy area, surely X is in the manifesto in pretty large font?

Who are you voting for? I have already outlined the failures of past administrations for my sector. If you wish to believe their promises, off with you, I don't. I will not vote for the same old, same old again, I will try something new to see if it works. If no one ever tried anything different we'd still be living in caves.

Your question has no basis as you already know their farming policy isn't fully formed.

thattequilagirl

Deleted User wrote: »

Politician in agreeing with voter shocker!

If you and he, their candidate, agree on the biggest issue in farming, does it appear in the manifesto or was it rejected by the Party? I mean, if a candidate says X is the single biggest issue in a policy area, surely X is in the manifesto in pretty large font?

Is farming the only issue you're interested in? Most farmers I know are also hugely concerned about the health system, care for the elderly, access to third level education etc.

Graces7

Deleted User wrote: »

Why do people vote for the likes of the Healy Raes?

'Cos like them or loath them, they will say a lot more on issues like suicide rates in rural Ireland, rural isolation, the depopulation of the countryside and plain old septic tanks etc. than the Dublin media insisting that the issues are actually gay marriage, abortion and a lack of housing.

Think you are wearing rose coloured glasses re HR and family. Think back to various stories.. and they have been known to do favours eg gt folk on housing lists houses way before their turn. Where I live they are hated.

thattequilagirl

thattequilagirl wrote: »

Is farming the only issue you're interested in?

Oh not at all. SD's complete and utter lack of farming policy is what is interesting.

When asked, one SD supporter (you), said it was all FF's fault before posting about abortion. Another (saltsun) said the SD candidate agreed with him about what the No. 1 issue was in farming...but evidently it doesn't appear in the manifesto.

I think we can take it that the SD's position on a sector that contributes tens of billions is either not formed at all or a complete mess...and maybe dependent on further chats between saltsun and his local SD candidate?

Graces7 wrote: »

Think you are wearing rose coloured glasses re HR and family. Think back to various stories...

Oh I'm no fan at all. Far from it. Indeed it seems that North Kerry will vote for them in greater numbers than those that know them and actually know their work. But I can see why they get traction.

saltsun

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh not at all. SD's complete and utter lack of farming policy is what is interesting.

When asked, one SD supporter (you), said it was all FF's fault before posting about abortion. Another (saltsun) said the SD candidate agreed with him about what the No. 1 issue was in farming...but evidently it doesn't appear in the manifesto.

I think we can take it that the SD's position on a sector that contributes tens of billions is either not formed at all or a complete mess...and maybe dependent on further chats between saltsun and his local SD candidate?

Keep ignoring what you're being told History repeating itself.

beach_walker

Deleted User wrote: »

I think we can take it that the SD's position on a sector that contributes tens of billions is either not formed at all or a complete mess...and maybe dependent on further chats between saltsun and his local SD candidate?

I do think it's interesting to compare the social media treatment of the SDs against that to Renua. My FB and Twitter feed was alive for days with people picking apart Renua's every budgetary (in particular) detail. SDs come out with "ah we won't be the main party anyways so we didn't bother doing any costing," and people are tripping over themselves to applaud them

thattequilagirl

Deleted User wrote: »

When asked, one SD supporter (you), said it was all FF's fault before posting about abortion.

I'm inclined to think you're already affiliated with an establishment party. You're completely misrepresenting what I said. My point about FF was to do with policy, not agriculture, which I already clarified above. I've also admitted that there are areas where they are still in the process of developing policy, and agriculture is one of them.

Repealing the 8th is one of about 8 other issues I went on to mention, which you've chosen to pluck out because it's the most controversial.

Quit the crap.

thattequilagirl

thattequilagirl wrote: »

I'm inclined to think you're already affiliated with an establishment party. You're completely misrepresenting what I said. My point about FF was to do with policy, not agriculture, which I already clarified above. I've also admitted that there are areas where they are still in the process of developing policy, and agriculture is one of them.

Repealing the 8th is one of about 8 other issues I went on to mention, which you've chosen to pluck out because it's the most controversial.

Quit the crap.

It sounds like you are getting annoyed. I mean, a person out canvassing for a party is hardly in a position to suggest there is something dark about party affiliation!

When the SD get around to producing a policy on a multi billion euro sector, you may have to deal with challenging questions about it, and you'll have to do better than "quit the crap". If you feel completely misrepresented, I'm happy to use direct quotes...

Deleted User wrote: »

They don't even have a half developed one in some areas, their manifesto is very scant on info about agricultural policy, they have a line or 2 about wind farms, think FF has a 10 page policy document on wind farms alone...
...
https://socialdemocrats.ie/policies/agriculture-and-forestry/

https://www.fiannafail.ie/download/rural-ireland/Wind%20Policy.pdf

thattequilagirl wrote: »

I take your point, but for all FFs well developed policies, they ruined the country. So, there's that.

Deleted User wrote: »

You're not exactly selling the Social Democrats.

Ye have no absolutely no policies on agriculture
Yeah...well like...FF ruined the country.

thattequilagirl wrote: »

I wasn't trying to sell the SocDems, I was pointing out that well developed policies mean nothing if you don't implement them in power.

The SocDems have launched detailed policies on education, housing and health, among others, with original, workable ideas like support for credit unions as an alternative to banks for people who need loans, creating a Minister for Housing to tackle the rental crisis, homelessness and our boom/bust cycle, and creating an Irish NHS.

They support repealing the 8th and holding a constitutional convention to decide what replaces it.

They are refusing to engage in populist auction politics, so because they want to invest in services, they are not guaranteeing tax cuts for now (any politician guaranteeing you improved services and tax cuts is lying to you)

I do like some of the candidates. But Richard Hillman was spot on when he spoke of the malaise amongst certain parties towards rural Ireland.

Mint Aero

Can't wait to vote Fianna Fail. Celtic tigers back and we need the boys who know what to do with.

Good times are back and FF is back.

KomradeBishop

beach_walker wrote: »

I do think it's interesting to compare the social media treatment of the SDs against that to Renua. My FB and Twitter feed was alive for days with people picking apart Renua's every budgetary (in particular) detail. SDs come out with "ah we won't be the main party anyways so we didn't bother doing any costing," and people are tripping over themselves to applaud them

Well, Renua have come up with an utterly bonkers Flat Tax + Basic Income idea, which doesn't make any kind of accounting sense - the Social Democrats have stuck to not changing current Tax/Spending levels, if I recall correctly.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I've no idea what to vote. So much so that I don't know if I'll even bother voting.
I hate Enda Kenny and haven't agreed much with the way he's been the past couple of years or how he was in the good times when he was the opposition.

Sinn Fein are just out for those who don't want to work.

I can't justify voting for Fianna Fáil again, after the damage they done.

Labour are a joke and finished I think.
And I don't know enough about any of the independents.

I'll be sitting this one out

KomradeBishop

Check the Social Democrats so - if there are any of them in your area - founded by Stephen Donnelly and Catherine Murphy (among others), latter of which did a fantastic job taking Denis O'Brien to task last year.

jimgoose

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I've no idea what to vote. So much so that I don't know if I'll even bother voting...

I'm finding it rather trying as well, but at this stage I'm fit for just about anything to get Mad O'Duffy and his loyal phalanx of earnest eejits out of there. :mad:

beach_walker

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Well, Renua have come up with an utterly bonkers Flat Tax + Basic Income idea, which doesn't make any kind of accounting sense - the Social Democrats have stuck to not changing current Tax/Spending levels, if I recall correctly.

Oh c'mon, if that were the *exact* case then they wouldn't be planning on changing anything. Obviously they want to change how and where money is spent. Seems like Renua shouldn't have bothered either, benefit from a free pass!

Actually aren't they committed to getting rid of the water charge? How's that, where will that money come from? Who knows, vote SD!

KomradeBishop

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Well, Renua have come up with an utterly bonkers Flat Tax + Basic Income idea, which doesn't make any kind of accounting sense - the Social Democrats have stuck to not changing current Tax/Spending levels, if I recall correctly.

Tax has to be reduced, particularly for those in the higher bracket are being absolutely crucified with tax and its totally unfair. Working to hand over 50% of your money, absolutely nuts. We also need to see DIRT ideally abolished or at least severely reduced along with reduction in CAT and increases in threasholds.

suicide_circus

The environmental/climate change question in last night's debate came out of left field and threw all the leaders a bit.

That's because the environment is not even on their radar. It's not an important issue. The well-being of our ****ing home planet is a non ****ing issue.

Without a healthy planet and balanced eco system we have nothing. Everything else goes out the window - the economy, employment, health care, education, childcare, housing, law and order, social welfare, refugees, abortion, equality all become utterly meaningless, all of the stuff we worry about goes out the ****ing window if we don't start putting the planet FRONT AND CENTRE of everything we do. As the most intelligent and most parasitic animal on the planet, it falls on us to manage it.

The Green Party are a joke but at least the environment plays a very central role in their manifesto and world view. If you have a spare vote going or want a protest vote or can't make your mind up, throw your local green candidate a vote. This at least might focus a few minds and bring this vital topic into closer focus.

I'd rather shoot myself in the foot than vote for the green party.

beach_walker

suicide_circus wrote: »

This at least might focus a few minds and bring this vital topic into closer focus.

From the crowd who sold us down the river in 2009 in a renegotiated programe for government, whereby they agreed to continue backing their FF buddies (against the vast wishes of the country), backing for NAMA, bailing out of developers and massive cuts all in exchange for a ban on stag hunting and fur farming... That kinda focus?? Lol, I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole.

jimgoose

suicide_circus wrote: »

...The Green Party are a joke but at least the environment plays a very central role in their manifesto and world view. If you have a spare vote going or want a protest vote or can't make your mind up, throw your local green candidate a vote. This at least might focus a few minds and bring this vital topic into closer focus.

The Green Party are almost as bad a shower of dangerous, blithering idiots as Fine Gael.

suicide_circus

Ok so **** the whales

jimgoose

suicide_circus wrote: »

Ok so **** the whales

Whales my ass. When I stop being robbed blind and made an eejit of, then the whales might get a look-in.

beach_walker

suicide_circus wrote: »

Ok so **** the whales

Wait, is introducing whaling ala Norway part of the SDs "noridc model" talk?! :pac:

suicide_circus

beach_walker wrote: »

From the crowd who sold us down the river in 2009 in a renegotiated programe for government, whereby they agreed to continue backing their FF buddies (against the vast wishes of the country), backing for NAMA, bailing out of developers and massive cuts all in exchange for a ban on stag hunting and fur farming... That kinda focus?? Lol, I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole.

Any small party would have done the same I'm afraid. A lot of the AAA types and independents are afraid of their shyte to get into power cause they'd have to run a ****ing country and all their blow hard rhetoric would have to be abandoned as theyd have to fall in line with IMF and ECB demands.

beach_walker

suicide_circus wrote: »

Any small party would have done the same I'm afraid.

Oh please. They didn't, ye did. It's actually quite a FF-esque excuse, "the crash would have happened no matter who was in charge lads, vote for me!"

I remember it well, the whole country was pissed and even half yer membership must have left by that stage. Not to mention dragging that loathsome government on for another two years. A joke of a party.

KomradeBishop

Jaylah Important Trailblazer wrote: »

Tax has to be reduced, particularly for those in the higher bracket are being absolutely crucified with tax and its totally unfair. Working to hand over 50% of your money, absolutely nuts. We also need to see DIRT ideally abolished or at least severely reduced along with reduction in CAT and increases in threasholds.

Why are you quoting me? If you want to go off on an anti-tax spiel, don't pretend you're replying to me - as not a thing there relates to my post.

saltsun

saltsun wrote: »

Who are you voting for?

Hate to quote myself but, perhaps Conor74 is embarrassed about who he is voting for? Seems to have missed the question.

Baggy Trousers

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I've no idea what to vote. So much so that I don't know if I'll even bother voting.
I hate Enda Kenny and haven't agreed much with the way he's been the past couple of years or how he was in the good times when he was the opposition.

Sinn Fein are just out for those who don't want to work.

I can't justify voting for Fianna Fáil again, after the damage they done.

Labour are a joke and finished I think.
And I don't know enough about any of the independents.

I'll be sitting this one out

Find out what the Independents stand for and vote for him/her. I agree, the established parties are rubbish. Too much baggage.

Social Democrats is also an option - 3 damn good Independents created it.

saltsun

saltsun wrote: »

Hate to quote myself but, perhaps Conor74 is embarrassed about who he is voting for? Seems to have missed the question.

I simply don't know. I won't vote Labour or SF, because their candidates here are the useless A Spring and the sinister M Ferris.

I wish there was a SD candidate here so I could ask him if the Galway candidate had learned about farming and decided that your chats would indeed form the party's agricultural strategy...;)

suicide_circus

I feel i must point out I have never voted green

suicide_circus

beach_walker wrote: »

Oh please. They didn't, ye did. It's actually quite a FF-esque excuse, "the crash would have happened no matter who was in charge lads, vote for me!"

I remember it well, the whole country was pissed and even half yer membership must have left by that stage. Not to mention dragging that loathsome government on for another two years. A joke of a party.

Elections are window dressing, you do get that, yes?

beach_walker

suicide_circus wrote: »

Elections are window dressing, you do get that, yes?

Would you mind expanding on that? Cos it sounds like you're saying it doesn't matter who we vote for, but may as well vote Green?!

jimgoose

suicide_circus wrote: »

I feel i must point out I have never voted green

Really? I have. I actually tend to care about looking after the place more than not, tread lightly upon the Earth, all that rot. Little did I know at the time about the shower of morons I was backing. :pac:

saltsun

Deleted User wrote: »

I simply don't know. I won't vote Labour or SF, because their candidates here are the useless A Spring and the sinister M Ferris.

I wish there was a SD candidate here so I could ask him if the Galway candidate had learned about farming and decided that your chats would indeed form the party's agricultural strategy...;)

I can confidently predict you'll put a big 1 next to a FF candidate on Friday

Darkglasses

Tactical voting question. In my constituency, there's about 3 or 4 candidates who I equally want to vote for. Does it make sense to put the one with the lowest chance of getting elected first, and progress down to the most likely?

JustTheOne

Unbelievable ff could be back in power 5 years after absolutely destroying this country.

Astonishing.

RobertKK

The parties that show an interest in rural Ireland are FF, FG, Renua and love or hate them the Greens.

FF for example are saying that we need to future proof our broadband and like with electricity, every home should be connected to fibre optic cable with speeds of 1GB/s.

FG, well in rural Ireland they are the party of the big farmer as seen with the CAP.

Renua has policies for rural Ireland including agriculture, they want a scheme to make it easy for an elderly farmer to rent out his farm so he/she can retire and they argue that interest rates are too on agricultural loans, and they are...

The greens have rural policies but can't say they are popular.

No one with a brain who is rural based would vote for a left wing party, I have never been canvassed by a left wing politicians in rural Kilkenny. I get canvassers from FF and FG, and at the local elections there is an independent who does canvass, but the rest don't care, or do not have the organisation to do so,.
Left wing parties know rural Ireland would never vote for them.

Rurual people will vote for parties or people who show an interest in them. Where were the right to water people when people in rural Ireland have always paid for water?
None of them cared, and none of them do care about rural Ireland.

StewartGriffin

RobertKK wrote: »

No one with a brain who is rural based would vote for a left wing party.

This has to be the most ignorant statement of the entire campaign. We can snipe all we like about the leaders debates but imagine if one came out with this chestnut.

I personally know at least four rural dwellers who would proclaim themselves lefties and I'm not talking about retired greens who just moved over from England. I might not agree with their politics but stupid they ain't. Believe it or not, even though they are farmers they actually read books and everything!