General Election - Feb 26th Megathread

RobertKK

StewartGriffin wrote: »

This has to be the most ignorant statement of the entire campaign. We can snipe all we like about the leaders debates but imagine if one came out with this chestnut.

I personally know at least four rural dwellers who would proclaim themselves lefties and I'm not talking about retired greens who just moved over from England. I might not agree with their politics but stupid they ain't. Believe it or not, even though they are farmers they actually read books and everything!

Maybe they read the Communist manifesto by Karl Marx and Engels.

Left wing parties will again do extremely badly in rural Ireland. They have nothing to offer rural Ireland.
So what have they to offer rural Ireland in your opinion?

suicide_circus

beach_walker wrote: »

Would you mind expanding on that? Cos it sounds like you're saying it doesn't matter who we vote for, but may as well vote Green?!

In a nutshell. They will all promise things they can't deliver and have little control over. The reason Ireland dosnt have a world class health system or well managed natural resources or top class education is....the Irish people. People will always vote with their wallets. We vote people into our national parliament becuase they attended our uncles funeral. When your national saying is "Ara shure til be grand!" you're bound to run into a few issues. We are an imprudent and flahulach people. I just think we could do with putting the environment and climate higher up our list of concerns than it presently is.

StewartGriffin

RobertKK wrote: »

Maybe they read the Communist manifesto by Karl Marx and Engels.

Left wing parties will again do extremely badly in rural Ireland. They have nothing to offer rural Ireland.
So what have they to offer rural Ireland in your opinion?

What are you looking for? Some people do actually vote for reasons other than parish pump politics.

StewartGriffin

StewartGriffin wrote: »

What are you looking for? Some people do actually vote for reasons other than parish pump politics.

Rural does not necessarily mean parish pump at all.

In fact, many remember the greatest example of the parish pump at work, when Tony Gregory held the balance of power and it turned on how much they could throw at a few streets in Dublin.

Galwayguy35

thattequilagirl wrote: »

I was talking about FF as a whole, not specifically as related to agriculture.

It really bothers me that the West never gets decent representation in government because people vote single-issue politicians in like Michael Fitzmaurice. So we have a great farmer and man of the people who can talk about rural issues, but nothing to offer in terms of what we need in a wider sense for health, education and social justice.

FF is a political machine that has back room staffers churning out policy constantly. The SocDems are a fledgling party with no funding and 3 TDs. Expecting them to have the same level of policy isn't reasonable. I have no doubt that as time goes on and they start running more candidates in rural areas, a coherent policy will be developed. In the meantime. I highly doubt if they got into government they would have the agriculture ministry.

I don't see parties like the SD ever taking off in rural areas like Galway East IMO, look how long Lab are in existence and they never do well here.

Left leaning parties like the SD and the AAA are always going to be geared towards urban areas.

Think you're being a bit unfair to Fitzmaurice, I've listened to him debate and he can hold his own on a wide range of issues.

RobertKK

StewartGriffin wrote: »

What are you looking for? Some people do actually vote for reasons other than parish pump politics.

I want people who know rural Ireland, I want people who understand agriculture which is my sector.
I want people who understand that rural people should receive proper services like their urban counterparts.
People need people who will represent them. I could vote AAA/PBP for example, but I don't agree with their policies in most areas and would not represent me.
The centre right parties represent me, and they are the parties that represent most people in rural Ireland, them along with some independents who get rural Ireland.
I want people who understand rural Ireland, and believe me there are a lot who go for election who don't.
That is not parish pump politics, it is voting for representation.

suicide_circus

^^^^you need critical mass, population density and economies of scale to achieve certain services in a cost effective and sustainable way.

Jack Killian

JustTheOne wrote: »

Unbelievable ff could be back in power 5 years after absolutely destroying this country.

Astonishing.

Shows just how bad FG & Labour handled things; if they'd shown an ounce of humility or understanding or fairness they'd have been a shoe-in.

Instead, having never, ever voted FF, having argued FG's case pre-2008x and having voted for them in every election to date including the last, I'll be leaving them off the ballot paper options altogether (along with FF, Labour & SF, before anyone implies otherwise).

MilesMorales1

I'd still say Fine Gael is a shoe in for leading coalition party.

RobertKK

suicide_circus wrote: »

^^^^you need critical mass, population density and economies of scale to achieve certain services in a cost effective and sustainable way.

Not looking for public transport, water or sewage services.

But like the rural electrification scheme of the 1950s, we are now where super fast broadband is not a luxury but a necessity.
My broadband is ok I get upto 20mb/s, but some in rural Ireland have dreadful internet services. But even what I get is a fraction of what people in towns and cities can get.

We would not argue it too costly to provide electricity to rural Ireland. It is seen as a necessity, we need to get to where people in rural Ireland get the same speeds as people in towns and cities.
I think FF are right when they say there is a need to bring fibre optic cable to every household. the internet is not going anywhere, but grows in importance everyday. It is a business tool, as well as a leisure service.
It is as important as electricity was in the past when there was the scheme to electrify rural Ireland.

masti123

Darkglasses wrote: »

Tactical voting question. In my constituency, there's about 3 or 4 candidates who I equally want to vote for. Does it make sense to put the one with the lowest chance of getting elected first, and progress down to the most likely?

Depends. If you put a candidate who's a shoe in first your transfer is contingent on the size of the surplus distributed (the bigger the surplus the better). If you vote for a candidate who's eliminate early on then your vote transfers at that point. The danger however is that a candidate won't be eliminated or elected at all, meaning that your vote gets stuck with them. For example, someone voting for Sarah Jane Hennelly in Limerick City who would prefer Jan O'Sullivan over the Cian Pendeville could find their vote stuck with Hennelly if she weren't eliminated early enough for it to transfer to Jan before Cian gets elected.

Darkglasses

masti123 wrote: »

Depends. If you put a candidate who's a shoe in first your transfer is contingent on the size of the surplus distributed (the bigger the surplus the better). If you vote for a candidate who's eliminate early on then your vote transfers at that point. The danger however is that a candidate won't be eliminated or elected at all, meaning that your vote gets stuck with them. For example, someone voting for Sarah Jane Hennelly in Limerick City who would prefer Jan O'Sullivan over the Cian Pendeville could find their vote stuck with Hennelly if she weren't eliminated early enough for it to transfer to Jan before Cian gets elected.

Wasn't aware of that danger, thanks! I'll just put it down by preference like I'm supposed to so.

saltsun

RobertKK wrote: »

No one with a brain who is rural based would vote for a left wing party, I have never been canvassed by a left wing politicians in rural Kilkenny.

Left of centre is different from left wing. Was it Bertie or Cowan who described FF as centre left previously. There is nothing wrong with rural people voting to the left, perhaps it's our own fault for not educating the left in the first instance.

I've never been canvassed by anyone that I'm aware of and I live in a village.

TripleC

Just reading through the thread. It seems alot of people a prepared to allow the Social Democrats latitude which would not be afforded to other parties.

Far from being transparent the SDs are about the only party who have campaigned on a manifesto which is un-costed. When questioned about this, Stephen Donnelly replied rather glibly that since they wouldn't be leading the next Government, costing were unnecessary. Can you imagine Labour getting away with that? Heck, if Pierce Doherty had said something like that the media would be apoplectic with rage and demanding a Tribunal of Enquiry.

The kid glove treatment extends to their taxation policies where its asserted that they are the only party who have not been populist because they have pledged to retain the USC. Again, that Anti-Populist tag isn't really true because arguably they have take the most populist taxation position of all by promising to abolish Water Charges. Given the relative costs of both taxes, is surprisingly less controversial so they are hardly swimming against the tide by retaining it.

Furthermore, and in the same vein, there is something vague about the Social Democrats as a whole. From businessperson Glenna Lynch , through Stephen Donnelly the populist centrist to Roisin Shortall and Catherine Murphy who are further Left then SF, they span basically the entire political spectrum. This is reflected in their support. Loads of people seem to want to support them and all seem to have very different and contradictory views as to what the Social Democrats represent. At best this will result in yet more disillusioned people at worst, such ideological chasms could cause splits and defections among members.

Of course, there is also the danger that such a party, trying to appease a disparate base could follow FF down the "all things to all men" route. As it stands they already seem to say yes to every interest group and jump on any bandwagon. It was notably during the TV debate that Donnelly faltered when questioned about the specifics of having to fund one needy cause at the expense of another.

saltsun

TripleC wrote: »

It was notably during the TV debate that Donnelly faltered when questioned about the specifics of having to fund one needy cause at the expense of another.

I watched all the leaders debates except for the last one. Predictably the reports of that one were "....failed to answer the question", "......talked about something else".

Yet Donnelly gets criticised for faltering on one question? As far as I have seen he's the only "leader" that'll actually make an attempt to provide an answer.

As one, newspaper I think, report put it today "When asked his favourite colour, the Taoiseach replied "Tractor".

TripleC

Is anybody else kind of shocked at just how many in the media are unashamedly supporting FF?

Its glaringly obvious that The Independent/Sunday Independent along with the Examiner have had some kind of Editorial decision to support them such is tenor of their publicity. Its also noticeable that Murdoch publications especially the Sunday Times are also broadly favorable to them.

Obviously, the media can't make people vote a particular way. However, they can turn them off voting for other parties. In this regard the Independents determination to tarnish SF has been fairly underhanded at times. Also, and this will receive little publicity, The Independent and Examiner have been vitriolically anti Government throughout the campaign. Granted, the Government haven't helped themselves, but I don't think you can underestimate the sheer attritional effect of blanket negative and cynical coverage.

I just find it a bit sinister. Ordinarily Journalists disagree over just about anything. So to see so many of them acting in unison is odd.

TripleC

Just watched the news tonight and noticed the media are still beating the drum about FF having momentum.

Lets put this in context. For the past 5 years FF, have yo-yoed between 19-22%. The currently sit on 20%, according to the most recent poll, which is squarely in the middle of their range pollings. How is that momentum?

Furthermore, the movement they have shown in the polls, even in recent weeks, has been of the order of 1-2%. The margin of error is 3%!

Moreover, if FF do get 20% or even 22/23% that will still be their second worst performance in their history. I fail to see how that is good. For context, FG increased from 22.5% and 31 seats in 2002, to 27% and 51 seats in 2007........and it was portrayed in the aftermath of the 2007 election as a disappointing result.

Am I missing something here? Are FF being talked up to coax their own supporters out, or, to try to discourage the supporters of other parties?!

Ozymandius2011

TripleC wrote: »

Just watched the news tonight and noticed the media are still beating the drum about FF having momentum.

Lets put this in context. For the past 5 years FF, have yo-yoed between 19-22%. The currently sit on 20%, according to the most recent poll, which is squarely in the middle of their range pollings. How is that momentum?

Furthermore, the movement they have shown in the polls, even in recent weeks, has been of the order of 1-2%. The margin of error is 3%!

Moreover, if FF do get 20% or even 22/23% that will still be their second worst performance in their history. I fail to see how that is good. For context, FG increased from 22.5% and 31 seats in 2002, to 27% and 51 seats in 2007........and it was portrayed in the aftermath of the 2007 election as a disappointing result.

Am I missing something here? Are FF being talked up to coax their own supporters out, or, to try to discourage the supporters of other parties?!

They got 25% in the local/euro elections. I am no fan but I do think that where social welfare is concerned FF have always been more generous than FG.

One piece of evidence that FF may have room to grow and FG to fall can be seen in the latest Irish Times Ipsos-MRBI poll, which shows Kenny and Martin level on 24% when voters are asked who they want to be Taoiseach.

StewartGriffin

TripleC wrote: »

Just watched the news tonight and noticed the media are still beating the drum about FF having momentum.

Lets put this in context. For the past 5 years FF, have yo-yoed between 19-22%. The currently sit on 20%, according to the most recent poll, which is squarely in the middle of their range pollings. How is that momentum?

Furthermore, the movement they have shown in the polls, even in recent weeks, has been of the order of 1-2%. The margin of error is 3%!

Moreover, if FF do get 20% or even 22/23% that will still be their second worst performance in their history. I fail to see how that is good. For context, FG increased from 22.5% and 31 seats in 2002, to 27% and 51 seats in 2007........and it was portrayed in the aftermath of the 2007 election as a disappointing result.

Am I missing something here? Are FF being talked up to coax their own supporters out, or, to try to discourage the supporters of other parties?!

I don't believe there is any conspiracy there, just lazy, lazy journalism. Irish media seems to be slowly sliding into a social media sludge of politically correct twitter junkies. The number of proper journalists, those worthy of the name, can be counted on one hand in this country.

KomradeBishop

RobertKK wrote: »

The parties that show an interest in rural Ireland are FF, FG, Renua and love or hate them the Greens.
*snip*

This whole post is nonsense - rural Ireland can thank FF/FG for the destruction of rural Ireland, through mass unemployment - due to both parties economic policies.

Renua is just tacked on there solely because it's right-wing - it is in fact by far the most right-wing party in Ireland, and would upend the whole tax base exclusively to benefit the wealthy, and to engage in a new round of crushing austerity (their tax rates were shown not to bring in the revenue they promised, leading to massive cuts).


Have you actually read other parties manifesto's? I don't like Sinn Fein, but their manifesto mentions loads of things affecting rural Ireland.

KomradeBishop

RobertKK wrote: »

Maybe they read the Communist manifesto by Karl Marx and Engels.

Left wing parties will again do extremely badly in rural Ireland. They have nothing to offer rural Ireland.
So what have they to offer rural Ireland in your opinion?

You do realize how thick a thing to say that is? It's like saying right-wing people must have read "Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler" - idiotic.

There should be a law like Godwin's Law, for people making ridiculous comparisons to Communism, rather than Nazism.

TripleC

TripleC wrote: »

Lets put this in context. For the past 5 years FF, have yo-yoed between 19-22%. The currently sit on 20%, according to the most recent poll, which is squarely in the middle of their range pollings. How is that momentum?

Perhaps in polls, but not in the local and Euro elections in that time, where they secured approximately 25%...which of course suggests that polls may may slightly skewed against them. Not deliberately of course but perhaps they are so focussed on polling across demographics that they fail to account for which is likelier to actually go out and vote.

There was also a feeling that FF had become irrelevant, they were toxic, they had no candidate in the last Presidential election, had lost a lot of the high profile personalities, there were rows with the few remaining ones (Martin v O'Cuiv, Martin v Brian Crowley), seemed devoid of any role or policies, seemed to be second to SF in seizing on issues, the organisation is broken and Cumainn are moribund etc. etc.

Of course no vote is cast yet, and if they get around 20% there will be little to crow about. But if it's around 25%, that will be seen as success. But the future of the party will perhaps be more defined by what happens after the election rather than in it. If they go in as the perceived junior partner in a Coalition, that will be manna to SF in the long run, the junior partner always gets a kicking. If they go in as equals, it might be interesting.

WesternZulu

There seems to be a lot of anti FG online from people saving they haven't felt the recovery and are determined to get them out by voting FF.

I really don't get that logic!!
OK fair enough you might not have felt the recovery but you sure as hell felt the recession and who conspired to make that perfect storm...FF!

People have short memories and I'd be absolutely sickened if FF got in government in any shape or form!

TripleC

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps in polls, but not in the local and Euro elections in that time, where they secured approximately 25%...which of course suggests that polls may may slightly skewed against them. Not deliberately of course but perhaps they are so focussed on polling across demographics that they fail to account for which is likelier to actually go out and vote.

There was also a feeling that FF had become irrelevant, they were toxic, they had no candidate in the last Presidential election, had lost a lot of the high profile personalities, there were rows with the few remaining ones (Martin v O'Cuiv, Martin v Brian Crowley), seemed devoid of any role or policies, seemed to be second to SF in seizing on issues, the organisation is broken and Cumainn are moribund etc. etc.

Of course no vote is cast yet, and if they get around 20% there will be little to crow about. But if it's around 25%, that will be seen as success. But the future of the party will perhaps be more defined by what happens after the election rather than in it. If they go in as the perceived junior partner in a Coalition, that will be manna to SF in the long run, the junior partner always gets a kicking. If they go in as equals, it might be interesting.

Indeed.

The polling companies in particular seem to be basing quite alot on the outcome of the last Local Election. The premise being obviously that there are a large number of clandestine FF voters out there. Of course, historically and anecdotally speaking there is a ring of truth to this. We are all familiar with the person who bemoans the fact that politicians are "all the same" in the hope of discouraging others from voting, and who then toddles down to vote FF 1,2,3.

Heres the rub though. Looking at the core numbers in the polls, FG are almost double the core number of FF in some cases. In fact in the most recent poll SF were practically at the same level as FF. Obviously, the pollsters are compensating for the fact that SF traditionally garners votes from a demographic which usually has a low voter turnout. However, vis-a-vis FG, they are obviously making an adjustment to award many of the floating voters to FF on the basis that FG performed lower then expected last time. However, in 2014 FG were at a nadir, their supporters morale and determination was on the floor. So, what is the FF vote was only proportionately higher because FGs vote simply didn't turn up rather then because there were loads of returning FF voters?! Food for thought.

TripleC

WesternZulu wrote: »

There seems to be a lot of anti FG online from people saving they haven't felt the recovery and are determined to get them out by voting FF.

I really don't get that logic!!
OK fair enough you might not have felt the recovery but you sure as hell felt the recession and who conspired to make that perfect storm...FF!

People have short memories and I'd be absolutely sickened if FF got in government in any shape or form!

Yep, most in the far left have been tunnel visioned and have focused all their vitriol on the current Government rather then the former one. Which has allowed FF to fly under the radar so to speak. Furthermore, alot of people don't seem to want to acknowledge it but FF had had the overwhelming support of the mainstream media.

I would echo your sentiments above. I have met several people stating that they have no option but to vote FF. Well, thats patently untrue. From Renua on the Right to AAA on the Left never has there been more options right accross the political spectrum. Thats before you consider independents.

So anybody who supports FF, in reality was an FFer all along.

TripleC

TripleC wrote: »

Yep, most in the far left have been tunnel visioned and have focused all their vitriol on the current Government rather then the former one. Which has allowed FF to fly under the radar so to speak. Furthermore, alot of people don't seem to want to acknowledge it but FF had had the overwhelming support of the mainstream media.

I thought it was pretty balanced until perhaps the past couple of weeks, when of the main 3 parties, FF seemed to stay out of trouble while the rest had some bad moments. FG lashing out at whingers, Labour and SF rowing over who said what about the SCC in the wake of a sensational gangland attack in our capital in broad daylight etc. If FF do well, the biggest thing parties may reflect on is the benefits of a party leader who is a half decent speaker and who appears to be well briefed. Politics is very largely about perception.

canhefixit

How there is as many votes for FG on here is testament to how brainwashed and stupid some people are, FG have lied and lied and lied again and again and again.....do people forget this magic 5 point plan mr kenny used to get elected?!?!?!

FF imo should be gone completely, a party that is 100% for theselves and their buddies

As for Lab well they have proven to be just as bad as the above two, broken promises and doing the opposite again sure they are as good as gone now all thanks to burton

To vote for any of the above parties sure you may as well empty your pockets now and put a gun to your head! At least then you wont have to worry about tax after tax after tax and not getting a hospital bed when you get sick

canhefixit

canhefixit wrote: »

To vote for any of the above parties sure you may as well empty your pockets now and put a gun to your head!

And for all that, you still overlooked the party that has the closest relationship with robberies and firearms...

Baggy Trousers

Why has the massive national debt and the costs of servicing it come up during this election campaign?

Nationalising private banking debt was a huge issue in 2011.

Baggy Trousers

Deleted User wrote: »

And for all that, you still overlooked the party that has the closest relationship with robberies and firearms...

My advice, dont vote for any of the established parties i.e. Lab, FF, FG, SF.

They have let us down time and time again. We need to move beyond civil war politics.

If we keep electing Independents into the Dail, new parties with less baggage and better morals will emerge e.g. Social Democrats.

Skylinehead

canhefixit wrote: »

gun to your head!

Don't think you mentioned "that lot"

KomradeBishop

Deleted User wrote: »

And for all that, you still overlooked the party that has the closest relationship with robberies and firearms...

The parties with the closest relationship to robberies would be Fianna Fail/Fine Gael - given their close relationship to the banks and developers - and how the former managed to dump such a stunning amount of debt on us, after the latter (among more) were enriched.

KomradeBishop

KomradeBishop wrote: »

The parties with the closest relationship to robberies would be Fianna Fail/Fine Gael - given their close relationship to the banks and developers - and how the former managed to dump such a stunning amount of debt on us, after the latter (among more) were enriched.

I appreciate the metaphor you are making.

But there is literally nothing closer to a robbery than a robbery. Like bank heists and shooting Gardai, as favoured by those associated with SF. I mean, an elected rep greeting Garda killers as they leave prison and driving them away from the media...you could not make that up. It is still just incredible. Does anyone know of any other democracy where those who kill the police are feted by a senior rep in a mainstream party?

KomradeBishop

Deleted User wrote: »

I appreciate the metaphor you are making.

But there is literally nothing closer to a robbery than a robbery. Like bank heists and shooting Gardai, as favoured by those associated with SF. I mean, an elected rep greeting Garda killers as they leave prison and driving them away from the media...you could not make that up. It is still just incredible. Does anyone know of any other democracy where those who kill the police are feted by a senior rep in a mainstream party?

It's not a metaphor, it's a fact - we, as a country, were effectively robbed collectively by the fraudsters in banks, and those they partnered up with in building the property bubble, and those in government who arguably helped pave the way for this (how many of those fúckers ended up in lucrative private board positions after public power?).

William K. Black is a regulator who helped put thousands of these kinds of fraudsters in prison, back in the late-80's/early-90's, while working as a regulator in the US - and the title of his book says it all:
"The Best Way to Rob a Bank is to Own One"

Bank heists? That's a piddling amount of money, compared to what these fúckers robbed from us. The economic crisis they caused has helped harm and kill enormous amounts of people, through suicides and health cuts - hell it's touched the lives of everyone in the whole country, and our kids (who'll still be picking up the tab generations from now...).

They make shotgun-armed bank robbers look like absolute amateurs - these people destroy chunks of entire countries economies/societies - and put themselves above the law.


Who paved the way for them? Who arguably protected and failed to prosecute them?
Fianna Fail and Fine Gael.

How in fúck anyone could support them still, I don't know.

KomradeBishop

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Bank heists? That's a piddling amount of money, compared to what these fúckers robbed from us...

You may trivialise the violence of armed robbery and shooting Gardai. And engage in the usual "oh that was nothing compared to the crime I have just made up called financial treason" stuff. It's actually the reason that, while I may criticise FF, FG and Labour, it wouldn't cross my mind to vote for a SF in the shadow of the likes of Martin Ferris.

KomradeBishop

Deleted User wrote: »

You may trivialise the violence of armed robbery and shooting Gardai. And engage in the usual "oh that was nothing compared to the crime I have just made up called financial treason" stuff. It's actually the reason that, while I may criticise FF, FG and Labour, it wouldn't cross my mind to vote for a SF in the shadow of the likes of Martin Ferris.

Don't make up a quote and attribute it to me. Don't accuse me of trivializing a crime either - I did no such thing.

I don't like Sinn Fein, they are among the parties I'd least want to see in government - but on the basis you're judging them by, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are actually far worse - just the criminals they (allegedly) back, are afforded an air of 'respectability' and are above the law, even though they are far worse than the criminal you cited.

KomradeBishop

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Don't make up a quote and attribute it to me. Don't accuse me of trivializing a crime either - I did no such thing.

I don't like Sinn Fein, they are among the parties I'd least want to see in government - but on the basis you're judging them by, Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are actually far worse - just the criminals they (allegedly) back, are afforded an air of 'respectability' and are above the law, even though they are far worse than the criminal you cited.

Financial crime is trivial compared to violent crime or worse again murder etc.

You are also making up the crimes against FG, bailing out the banks was the correct course of action it's one of the reasons Ireland survived the recession so well and are able to recover so quickly. A functioning banking sector is absolutely vital for a country who has any intention of growing, creating employment and fucntioning on an international level. Without banks we are basically fcuked, completely and utterly.

Frank Bullitt

Im living abroad and have been following the coverage of this casually.

I can't figure out at all, how on earth someone would vote for FF. If you vote for them you are a disgrace to the human species. Simple as that.

Balmed Out

I really cant get over how badly FG have managed this campaign. An outsider looking at Ireland in 2011 vs now would expect a very strong showing from FG. While they will still be the largest party that isn't going to happen. They seem to have employed an election manager whose last job was to write up Sinn Feins policy documents.
Meanwhile there seems to be an awful lot of FF supporters coming up from beneath an awful lot of rocks.

I love this country but our politicians and parties are woeful. Every time I vote its not who do I want but who I don't want the least.

Galwayguy35

Gintonious wrote: »

Im living abroad and have been following the coverage of this casually.

I can't figure out at all, how on earth someone would vote for FF. If you vote for them you are a disgrace to the human species. Simple as that.

Bit over dramatic don't you think, they messed up but they never killed anyone or sat on an army council unlike others....

KomradeBishop

Jaylah Important Trailblazer wrote: »

Financial crime is trivial compared to violent crime or worse again murder etc.

You are also making up the crimes against FG, bailing out the Baka was the correct course of action it's one of the reasons Ireland survived the recession so well and are able to recover so quickly. A function banking sector is absolutely vital for a county who has any intention of growing, creating employment and fucntioning on an international level. Without banks we are basically fcuked, completely and utterly.

Financial Crime is among the greatest and most harmful crimes of them all - there are few other crimes which are worse, and which harm so many, on the level of entire countries.

Murderers, rapists, child abusers - you name it - none of them harm more people, than the collective actions of financial fraudsters/criminals - fraud helps to destroy significant portions of entire economies/societies, and the lives of people within them.

They are among the most harmful and dangerous people on the whole planet. Now post-crisis, they are among the most powerful and beyond-the-law/untouchable people on the planet - with a strong influence over establishment parties like Fianna Fail/Fine Gael.

The bailouts happened because of these people. Thanks to Fianna Fail watching them build up such a ruinous property bubble, leading to the bailouts, and leading to our massive public debt and the negative effects that had on the whole economy and our healthcare system (again: increases in suicides and increases in harm/deaths due to healthcare underfunding).

Then we have Fine Gael arguably/allegedly protecting these people through non-prosecution, and ensuring the same thing will happen again in the future, as we watch a new housing bubble build up on Fine Gael's watch - nobody has been prosecuted, none of the public have any faith in Fine Gael or Fianna Fail going after these people and putting them in prison, or in engaging in reforms to stop it all happening again...


Fine Gael have been openly running on a campaign of appealing to the better off sections of society, for gaining in the election - guess who that includes? The many people who benefited from and were enriched by the whole crisis.

Billy86

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Fine Gael have been openly running on a campaign of appealing to the better off sections of society, for gaining in the election - guess who that includes? The many people who benefited from and were enriched by the whole crisis.

Why would FG openly run on a campaign of appealing to the vast majority?

FalconGirl

The growth in popularity of the SD's has been monumental in such a short period of time especially amongst younger voters. Could they lead a government at some point in the next 15 years? I certainly think they'll become more popular than SF at some stage.

Underground

FF's steadily improving popularity is a serious worry.

Do people treat politics like football (i.e. "FF till I die")? That would be beyond stupid, but the only alternative explanation is that people really do have terribly short memories which isn't much/any better.

They won't make it back into Government this time round, but I've a bad feeling the next GE will see them return..

Billy86

"Underground wrote: »

Do people treat politics like football (i.e. "FF till I die")?

Sadly, in countries like Ireland and the US, yes they absolutely do. And that's why we end up with the sh!t show we always get, and always know we'll get in advance, and that we thoroughly deserve.

" But but but... we're a FF family!" a line I've heard all too often than last 7+ years, that gets more pathetic each and every time.

TheHillOfDoom

Billy86 wrote: »

Sadly, in countries like Ireland and the US, yes they absolutely do. And that's why we end up with the sh!t show we always get, and always know we'll get in advance, and that we thoroughly deserve.

" But but but... we're a FF family!" a line I've heard all too often than last 7+ years, that gets more pathetic each and every time.

Billy - I don't know who you hang out with - but I've never once heard anyone declaring themselves to be a FF family lol.

FalconGirl

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

Billy - I don't know who you hang out with - but I've never once heard anyone declaring themselves to be a FF family lol.

My mothers side of the family are all staunch FF. One of my earliest memories was of my Grandad telling me how great Charlie Haughey was.

Much to his dissapointment, I didnt follow suit.:pac:

Frank Bullitt

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Bit over dramatic don't you think, they messed up but they never killed anyone or sat on an army council unlike others....

Na you're right, just cost people their jobs and careers. No biggie.

TheHillOfDoom

Gintonious wrote: »

Na you're right, just cost people their jobs and careers. No biggie.

And LIVES. Death by suicide? You want to google the numbers of suicide deaths for the term FF/FG/Labour have been in government yourself or shall I ?

Oh they have taken lives alright. Destroyed lives. Made life impossible. And caused lives to be taken.

Frank Bullitt

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

And LIVES. Death by suicide? You want to google the numbers of suicide deaths for the term FF/FG/Labour have been in government yourself or shall I ?

Oh they have taken lives alright. Destroyed lives. Made life impossible. And caused lives to be taken.

So all of the suicides in Ireland are because of the political party? Get a grip.