Report of FCP Meeting Minutes

badaj0z

homerhop wrote: »

Conspiracy theories!!! You were very vocal here about the conspiracy theories of solo runs by a former member of the committee. You were not as mouthy at the meeting when the new chairman stood up and said he knew of all the meetings that this person had,

Why should I have been? I knew the background so I knew what the chairman was going to say. May I suggest that one of you asks Martin why he was replaced as the NASRPC rep on the FCP? If he is open about it, this will end this fatuous debate.
May I also say that all of the bilious sour grape comments will not change anything that has happened one iota. I have been glad to see that the new committee and it's supporters have not been on here crowing about their victory. It is a great shame and a disservice to the shooting community that the supporters of the old committee can not stomach the loss.
The new committee is quietly getting on with the everyday running of the organisation. They will be holding a progress meeting with reps from the clubs in March to show what they have done and get feedback about future actions. I for one will be recommending that the constitution is repaired and put back to it's original state before the previous committee's manipulations

LB6

badaj0z wrote: »

The new committee is quietly getting on with the everyday running of the organisation. They will be holding a progress meeting with reps from the clubs in March to show what they have done and get feedback about future actions. I for one will be recommending that the constitution is repaired and put back to it's original state before the previous committee's manipulations

1. Way too "QUIETLY". They were the ones spouting about all information should be in the public forum, yet they go and do things without consultation with the members who paid their fees. They have our emails, send out the information directly to the members, not the clubs. it doesn't cost anything to email ppl.

2. Are you on the committee? How do you know they'll be holding a progress meeting with clubs in march?

3.You can recommend all you like, what do YOU want to MANIPULATE the constitution back to?

BattleCorp

badaj0z wrote: »

I for one will be recommending that the constitution is repaired and put back to it's original state before the previous committee's manipulations

I'd just like to point out something to you. The Constitution can't be manipulated by the Committee. The Constitution can only be changed at an AGM where 2/3 of people agree with the change. Likewise, the current Committee can't change the Constitution without holding a vote and getting the agreement of 2/3 of people there.

If any changes were made in the past, they were made with the consent of the members at the AGM through a democratic vote.

Unless of course you are suggesting that it was done outside of the rules previously?

badaj0z

BillBen wrote: »

Democracy is a great thing if it's fair and it's not rigged all because some people had personal grudge against some on the committee. Now as far as I can see they have succeeded in destroying the Nasrpc.

This really is hilarious. Did you not notice how the constitution was ignored by rigging the rules for club membership so that an EGM could be avoided?Why do you think that was? It was to avoid the EGM rules on voting, which allow each club one vote. The old committee knew that they would lose this vote as the vast majority of the clubs wanted them out so they brought forward the AGM knowing that the floor would vote and the rent a crowd from the two largest commercial clubs would turn up and support them, with the help of a free lunch.They also reckoned that not many people would turn up from the clubs down the country because of the distances involved. Well they did turn up, because the level of dissatisfaction with the status quo was so high. What is also very sad is the attitude displayed in previous posts which implied that only regular gallery rifle and pistol competition competitors should be voting. This is rubbish but also shows one of the reasons a change was required. There are many more club members than there are regular competitors and all club members can expect something from their National Association.
There were no personal grudges involved. The committee simply lost it's way and was focusing on too narrow a spectrum of the shooting sports.

badaj0z

LB6 wrote: »

1. Way too "QUIETLY". They were the ones spouting about all information should be in the public forum, yet they go and do things without consultation with the members who paid their fees. They have our emails, send out the information directly to the members, not the clubs. it doesn't cost anything to email ppl.

2. Are you on the committee? How do you know they'll be holding a progress meeting with clubs in march?

3.You can recommend all you like, what do YOU want to MANIPULATE the constitution back to?

They have been keeping the clubs up to date with progress. If you have not heard then look to your club committee. It is the clubs who are the members according to the constitution.
No, I am not on the committee, but my club does keep the members up to date.
Recent events showed that there were at least 3 versions of the constitution in circulation. The new committee needs to ascertain the most current version, ensure that any recent changes were made properly and then post the right version on the website. Is this manipulation?

BattleCorp

badaj0z wrote: »

This really is hilarious. Did you not notice how the constitution was ignored by rigging the rules for club membership so that an EGM could be avoided?Why do you think that was? It was to avoid the EGM rules on voting, which allow each club one vote. The old committee knew that they would lose this vote as the vast majority of the clubs wanted them out so they brought forward the AGM knowing that the floor would vote and the rent a crowd from the two largest commercial clubs would turn up and support them, with the help of a free lunch.They also reckoned that not many people would turn up from the clubs down the country because of the distances involved. Well they did turn up, because the level of dissatisfaction with the status quo was so high. What is also very sad is the attitude displayed in previous posts which implied that only regular gallery rifle and pistol competition competitors should be voting. This is rubbish but also shows one of the reasons a change was required. There are many more club members than there are regular competitors and all club members can expect something from their National Association.
There were no personal grudges involved. The committee simply lost it's way and was focusing on too narrow a spectrum of the shooting sports.

You say it's not personal yet you are calling the members of the "two largest commercial clubs" (your words, not mine) a 'rent a crowd'. Not the kind of language used by people who don't hold a grudge.

I do agree with you in one aspect. Non-competing club members do deserve every bit as much of a vote as competition shooters, no disagreement there. The NASRPC is mandated to do their best for all members.

BattleCorp

Does anybody actually know what the correct version of the Constitution is?

Is it posted online anywhere?

LB6

badaj0z wrote: »

They have been keeping the clubs up to date with progress. If you have not heard then look to your club committee. It is the clubs who are the members according to the constitution.

First email I received this morning from my club, with the attachment from the development officer speaking on behalf of the nasrpc for some reason. Surely that's not the PRO's job, or even the Secretaries?

That's a friggin dousie to say the least! I'm too p'd off to reply to it now. I'll give it my full attention in due course.

I paid my €10 last year to be affiliated directly to the nasrpc. I want to be spoken to directly and not by a third party.



[/QUOTE]No, I am not on the committee, but my club does keep the members up to date.[/QUOTE]

Would you mind sharing what your club has sent it's members to see if we're all getting the same information?

[/QUOTE]Recent events showed that there were at least 3 versions of the constitution in circulation. The new committee needs to ascertain the most current version, ensure that any recent changes were made properly and then post the right version on the website. Is this manipulation?[/QUOTE]

As far as the constitution goes, it's the last one posted on the old nasrpc website before the page was amended. It's to this one that any amendments from the AGM in january should be applied and to no other.

badaj0z

BattleCorp wrote: »

You say it's not personal yet you are calling the members of the "two largest commercial clubs" (your words, not mine) a 'rent a crowd'. Not the kind of language used by people who don't hold a grudge.

I do agree with you in one aspect. Non-competing club members do deserve every bit as much of a vote as competition shooters, no disagreement there. The NASRPC is mandated to do their best for all members.

I was only reflecting back the comment made by Homerhop as follows

homerhop wrote: »

It's ok we can always bus in a load next year

You forgot to mention the free lunch.

badaj0z

LB6 wrote: »

As far as the constitution goes, it's the last one posted on the old nasrpc website before the page was amended. It's to this one that any amendments from the AGM in january should be applied and to no other.

Are you sure LB6? Is that the version which is currently shown on the web site here:
http://nasrpc.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/0.1NASRPCConstitution.pdf

LB6

badaj0z wrote: »

Are you sure LB6? Is that the version which is currently shown on the web site here:
http://nasrpc.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/0.1NASRPCConstitution.pdf

I'd have to go print them off and look, but I'm busy here sucking in paint fumes! I'll be back! :-)

clivej

The latest communique would suggest Crofton's new NASRPC committee are going to rejoin the SC

jb88

gunny123 wrote: »

The committee were told to do something and didn't do it, Its exactly the same thing being whined about on this thread.

Told what by whom? Give up their independence give up their autonomy, well I guess that was settled.
Watch this space now for free range officer courses everyone ;-)

jb88

clivej wrote: »

The latest communique would suggest Crofton's new NASRPC committee are going to rejoin the SC

Oh is there going to be a vote taken now on whether the new committee will join the SC? Another busload of punters no one knows please or will it be two.

Enough people gave out about not voting or not asking to join so they don't need to ask to leave.

Well if your asking to rejoin put it to a vote of your clubs members, we are all about democracy, well lets see it in action again. oh wait a minute, if Democracy worked then we would all be happy.

You all wanted an EGM before now have the clubs call for one now or would you gladly submit.

No I guess this one will be behind closed doors, quietly turning the screws.
(Rent a crowd anyone)

jb88

badaj0z wrote: »

Why should I have been? I knew the background so I knew what the chairman was going to say. May I suggest that one of you asks Martin why he was replaced as the NASRPC rep on the FCP? If he is open about it, this will end this fatuous debate.
May I also say that all of the bilious sour grape comments will not change anything that has happened one iota. I have been glad to see that the new committee and it's supporters have not been on here crowing about their victory. It is a great shame and a disservice to the shooting community that the supporters of the old committee can not stomach the loss.
The new committee is quietly getting on with the everyday running of the organisation. They will be holding a progress meeting with reps from the clubs in March to show what they have done and get feedback about future actions. I for one will be recommending that the constitution is repaired and put back to it's original state before the previous committee's manipulations

May I say I have overwhelming support for all but one of the new committee, a couple of which I do not know personally, the other well that's another story indeed. Hence the post which started this thread. Give it one month as part of the SC and see where you are?

badaj0z

jb88 wrote: »

Oh is there going to be a vote taken now on whether the new committee will join the SC? Another busload of punters no one knows please or will it be two.

Of course they will rejoin-that is what the upheaval was all about. Were you at the meeting? Maybe if you offered a free dinner as well as a free lunch, you might get 2 buses.

jb88 wrote: »

You all wanted an EGM before now have the clubs call for one now or would you gladly submit.

You know the rules, as set out in the Constitution, if 1/3rd of the clubs call for an EGM, then one will take place, on the specific motion that called for it. So why don't you call one and get 1/3rd of the clubs behind you. Remember that it is one club, one vote.What motion do you have in mind?

Scalachi

I have seen on here mentioned a few times in relation to an EGM, One Club - One Vote.

I have copies of the NASRPC Constitution going back to 2010 and each amended version changed via the constitution since and there is no reference to this in relation to an EGM, I can only assume you refer to the following in relation to an AGM that was amended several years ago to be more inclusive of those in attendance for an AGM, the constitution is silent with regard to this specifically for an EGM:

Voting Procedures at Annual General Meetings
On each motion duly submitted to an Annual General Meeting, each member Club shall be entitled to vote.

Below is the current (prior to recent AGM) extract - if anyone wants a full copy, please let me know.

The Annual General Meeting
The AGM of the members of the Association shall be held once every calendar year at a central location. The Committee shall determine the date, time and location of each meeting.

At least 30 (thirty) days before the meeting the Secretary of the Association shall notify each affiliated club in writing, or by electronic mail, of the date, time, location and agenda of the meeting.

The following business shall be transacted; receive and if approved, adopt the agenda. The Chairman and Secretary’s reports, which includes from the Treasurer a statement of accounts to the end of the year. Election of officers of the Association.
All bona fide members of affiliated clubs present at the A.G.M. may vote on any proposal put forward during proceedings.

Representatives from one third of subscribing member Clubs shall form a quorum at all General Meetings of the NASRPC and all matters except amendments to the Constitution shall be decided by a simple majority.
In the event of a quorum not being present for any General Meeting called, the meeting shall stand adjourned until the same time and place twenty eight days forward and notice shall be given within seven days of the said adjournment to all member Clubs intimating the date, time and location of the rescheduled AGM.
In the event of a quorum not being present for the rescheduled Annual General Meeting, the full member clubs then present shall constitute a quorum for the adjourned meeting.

Voting Procedures at Annual General Meetings
On each motion duly submitted to an Annual General Meeting, each member of an affiliated Club shall be entitled to vote.

During elections at an Annual General Meeting should there be more than two valid nominations for the post of either Chairman or Secretary, a ballot shall be held and the candidate receiving least votes on each occasion should drop out until two candidates remain. A simple majority shall decide the contest between the two remaining candidates.
In the event of there being only one valid nomination for any post the Chairman shall declare that nominee elected.

During elections at an Annual General Meeting should there be more than two valid nominations for any of the other Executive Members posts, a ballot shall be held and the candidate receiving least votes on each occasion shall drop out until two candidates remain. A simple majority shall decide the contest between the twp candidates. In the event of there being only one valid nomination for any post the Chairman shall declare that nominee elected.

The NASRPC Chairman shall chair all General Meetings of the NASRPC. In the absence of the Chairman, the Vice Chairman shall chair the meeting, in their absence the Secretary shall take the chair. In the absence of the Chairman, the Vice Chairman and the Secretary the meeting shall elect a representative of a member Club to take the chair. The Chairman of any meeting shall have a casting vote.

Extraordinary General Meeting
An E.G.M. of the Association shall only be called by the Association Secretary on the instructions of the committee, or by written request of at least one third of the association membership. Only the specific business of the meeting shall be transacted at such a meeting. The Secretary shall give 30 (thirty) days notice in writing to the affiliated Clubs of such a meeting, stating the date, time, venue and business to be transacted.

Management
The NASRPC shall have power through its Committee to appoint and remunerate staff for the purpose of conducting affairs of the NASRPC. The Committee shall also have the power to remunerate any person, or persons appointed as staff, with the repayment of expenses properly incurred in connection with carrying out duties on behalf of the NASRPC. The duties of staff may include such duties and powers as originally vested in the Secretary and such duties and powers as the Committee may consider appropriate to delegate.
All notices required to be given to member Clubs shall be sent to the correspondent for each member Club in such a manner as may from time to time be determined by the Committee, and every such notice shall be deemed to have been duly served on the day following sending.

Motions submitted for consideration
All motions should be submitted in writing to the Secretary at least 21 days before the date of the General Meeting.

In the event of such a motion being submitted, the Secretary shall, not less than 14 days before a General Meeting, circulate the motion along with the agenda of the General Meeting to the membership of the NASRPC.
Any motion submitted in writing for consideration by the Committee shall be discussed at the meeting. Any motion should be proposed and seconded by two affiliated Clubs of the NASRPC present at the meeting. The decision on the motion shall be by simple majority of those affiliated members present.

Amendments to the Constitution
Amendments to the Constitution of the NASRPC shall be agreed only at an Annual General Meeting.
Any motion to amend the Constitution shall be proposed and seconded by two member Clubs or the Committee of the NASRPC and submitted in writing to the Secretary at least 21 days before the date of the General Meeting. In the event of such a motion being submitted, the Secretary shall, not less than 14 days before a General Meeting, circulate the motion along with the agenda of the General Meeting to the membership of the NASRPC.
Amendments to the Constitution shall be decided by a two-thirds majority of those present and voting at an Annual General Meeting.

gunny123

jb88 wrote: »

Oh is there going to be a vote taken now on whether the new committee will join the SC? Another busload of punters no one knows please or will it be two.

Maybe If you, and the old committee got outside the hilltop/harbour house gallery rifle clique, those punters wouldn't be so "unknown", and would in fact be known as ordinary club shooters who shoot week in week out. Or are you only concerned with people who compete ?

homerhop

gunny123 wrote: »

Maybe If you, and the old committee got outside the hilltop/harbour house gallery rifle clique, those punters wouldn't be so "unknown", and would in fact be known as ordinary club shooters who shoot week in week out. Or are you only concerned with people who compete ?

I am not a gallery rifle/pistol shooter

jb88

gunny123 wrote: »

Maybe If you, and the old committee got outside the hilltop/harbour house gallery rifle clique, those punters wouldn't be so "unknown", and would in fact be known as ordinary club shooters who shoot week in week out. Or are you only concerned with people who compete ?

So if they don't compete, well and good, at least turn up when your club is having a national shooting competition in your club. I have been at Munster target shooting club at national competitions and if there were 10 people there from the club on the day, I would be surprised.

Turn up and support your clubs and competitors at national competitions
In fact I can only remember one or two people last year. (But im sure there were more than that)

Have a look at what happens at least take an interest, its your club after all. You get a chance to see whats going on and get informed.

Yet how many came to the AGM from Munster this year?

BillBen

jb88 wrote: »

So if they don't compete, well and good, at least turn up when your club is having a national shooting competition in your club. I have been at Munster target shooting club at national competitions and if there were 10 people there from the club on the day, I would be surprised.

Turn up and support your clubs and competitors at national competitions
In fact I can only remember one or two people last year. (But im sure there were more than that)

Have a look at what happens at least take an interest, its your club after all. You get a chance to see whats going on and get informed.

Yet how many came to the AGM from Munster this year?

I was in Munster last year and as I remember 3 or 4 people turned up for the shoot out of the 100 or so members. I'm amazed that the rest of the club were that concerned about the Nasrpc they all turned up at the AGM to voice their opinion. I don't think I'll travel to Munster this year sure I'll never get onto a line

clivej

BillBen wrote: »

I was in Munster last year and as I remember 3 or 4 people turned up for the shoot out of the 100 or so members. I'm amazed that the rest of the club were that concerned about the Nasrpc they all turned up at the AGM to voice their opinion. I don't think I'll travel to Munster this year sure I'll never get onto a line

Getting on the 'Line' was never a problem at Munster for the times I was there.

I hear your fee's are going up (times 5) this year to extend the range :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Trigerguard

BillBen wrote: »

I was in Munster last year and as I remember 3 or 4 people turned up for the shoot out of the 100 or so members. I'm amazed that the rest of the club were that concerned about the Nasrpc they all turned up at the AGM to voice their opinion. I don't think I'll travel to Munster this year sure I'll never get onto a line

I am sure BillBen when you travelled to MTSC shooting grounds last year you felt welcome there.
Not like the unwelcome feeling. MTSC members got a the resent AGM.
And one other thing the majority of shooters did not agree with leaving the sports coalition but did agree to giving the top table of the NASARPC the BOOT, good reddens.
As for Martin H he is only shooting a wet week and lacks the experience needed to serve or represent any shooter on the FCP.

BillBen

Trigerguard wrote: »

I am sure BillBen when you travelled to MTSC shooting grounds last year you felt welcome there.
Not like the unwelcome feeling. MTSC members got a the resent AGM.
And one other thing the majority of shooters did not agree with leaving the sports coalition but did agree to giving the top table of the NASARPC the BOOT, good reddens.
As for Martin H he is only shooting a wet week and lacks the experience needed to serve or represent any shooter on the FCP.

1) The so called members of Munster didn't bother to show up to support their club so I certainly wasn't made feel welcome from anybody from Munster. I was made feel welcome by the other clubs that travelled great distances to show their support.

2) Martin is only shooing a wet day that statement alone tells me you don't know what you are talking about. He's has been on the Irish gallery rifle team for at least 8 years plus he's one of the best target shooters I've seen.

Witcher

Trigerguard wrote: »

As for Martin H he is only shooting a wet week and lacks the experience needed to serve or represent any shooter on the FCP.

LOL, I'd safely say Martin's been shooting longer than some other lads have been alive.

Trigerguard

BillBen wrote: »

My god man you really are talking sh!te.

1) The so called members of Munster didn't bother to show up to support their club so I certainly wasn't made feel welcome from anybody from Munster. I was made feel welcome by the other clubs that travelled great distances to show their support.

2) Martin is only shooing a wet day that statement alone tells me you don't know what you are talking about. He's has been on the Irish gallery rifle team for at least 8 years plus he's one of the best target shooters I've seen.

8 years not a long time and it looks like you have not been shooting long either if you call him the best you have seen.

Witcher

Trigerguard wrote: »

8 years not a long time and it looks like you have not been shooting long either if you call him the best you have seen.

8 years just on the National Team, how many years have you been on it Trigerguard?

Cass

Cut out the foul language and name calling.

There will be NO warnings about any further posts breaking this rule. The user will be infracted/banned and the post removed.

So be civil or loose your ability to post.

BillBen

Trigerguard wrote: »

8 years not a long time and it looks like you have not been shooting long either if you call him the best you have seen.

No I'm not shooting that long only 5 years but I'm still ranked in the top ten centre fire gallery rifle shooters in the country and have shot on the national team. But I still think he's one of the best I've seen

BattleCorp

Trigerguard wrote: »

As for Martin H he is only shooting a wet week and lacks the experience needed to serve or represent any shooter on the FCP.

Without doubt, this is the most stupid comment so far in this thread, and that takes some doing.