Which partys?

Grizzly 45

Two of the" three Amigos" of Limerick got in again[ODea,Noonan, O Donnell] O Dea and O Donnell at least did give us a hearing and did put in some effort on our behalf last year. If Quinlivan got in,I know that his dad and other family members are hunters and gun owners..SF seems to have complete mixed messages on field sports...One lot wants to ban coursing,others down south in the stronghold of WLimerick Kerry wont hear of it.Ol O Snoidgh s statement is off the wall completely and hopefully he was educated a tad by Sparks at the Dail comittee. Anyway which way,we live in intresting times again folks,and proably another election by I'd say July.So I wouldnt expect any moves or shakes on legislation until they decide who gets what snout in what trough.

bpb101

McGrath dosent look safe, he's 3rd atm but I wouldn't be happy if I were him

It wasn't me!

btalt wrote: »

Martin Hayden FG in Kildare has openly supported gun sports and even visited harbour house range on his campaign travels

He also had this as part of his re-election campaign, so...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6FkRjjGsBM

mayhem#

@Sparks; Should have ran yourself!

bpb101

mayhem# wrote: »

@Sparks; Should have ran yourself!

may have another election in a few weeks, certainly one by the years end

yubabill1

bpb101 wrote: »

McGrath dosent look safe, he's 3rd atm but I wouldn't be happy if I were him

I should be working but could not resist looking up fibres progress.

He is in a 4 way fight for the last seat and by no means out, but also by no means the strongest.

Maybe constituents realised that legal licensed firearms holders are not the ones selling drugs in his constituency?

He deliberately, wilfully, maliciously conflated us with criminals on Prime Time.

IRLConor

sfakiaman wrote: »

Out of twenty candidates only one came to my village, a saddening experience.

I've had a grand total of zero callers to my door across two general elections, a presidential election, a local & European election and five referendum campaigns.

Anyway, of the Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality here's how they've done so far:

TD/Senator|Party|Constituency|Result
Niall Collins|Fianna Fáil|Limerick County|Elected
Alan Farrell|Fine Gael|Dublin Fingal|Elected
Anne Ferris|Labour|Wicklow|Lost her seat
Seán Kenny|Labour|Dublin Bay North|Retired
Pádraig Mac Lochlainn|Sinn Féin|Donegal|Lost his seat
Gabrielle McFadden|Fine Gael|Longford-Westmeath|Lost her seat
Finian McGrath|Independent|Dublin Bay North|Still fighting for a seat, count ongoing
Fergus O'Dowd|Fine Gael|Louth|Elected
David Stanton|Fine Gael|Cork East|Elected
Ivana Bacik|Labour|University of Dublin|Seanad elections haven't happened yet
Martin Conway|Fine Gael|Administrative Panel|Seanad elections haven't happened yet
Tony Mulcahy|Fine Gael|Labour Panel|Seanad elections haven't happened yet
Rónán Mullen|Independent|National University of Ireland|Seanad elections haven't happened yet
Denis O'Donovan|Fianna Fáil|Agricultural Panel|Seanad elections haven't happened yet
Katherine Zappone|Independent|Taoiseach's Nominee/Dublin South-West|Was a senator, now elected as a TD.


Committees change regularly, but I think "our" one is going to be quite different next time. Of course, depending on how the attempts to form a government go we could have another election before the committee gets re-formed.

Sparks

mayhem# wrote: »

@Sparks; Should have ran yourself!

Yeah, I have a real job, but thanks

bpb101

@irl, zappone seat in a lot of question. May be taken from taken from under her before she has say down

IRLConor

bpb101 wrote: »

@irl, zappone seat in a lot of question. May be taken from taken from under her before she has say down

Looks like she has it.

It also looks like Finian McGrath will just about hang on to his seat too.

randy hickey

IRLConor wrote: »

Looks like she has it.

It also looks like Finian McGrath will just about hang on to his seat too.

Unfortunately it's now official - he got in.

Cass

M'eh.

With the (albeit slim) chance of a second election because of the larger parties refusal to enter into a coalition with one another and no one wanting a rainbow coalition he may have to go through it all again.

Even if we don't have a second election it's going to be a different Government to the last which means new members on the various review committees because of those that lost their seats. The last bit of good news is Kenny (Sean not Enda) and Mac Lochlainn retired or lost their seat. These were two that stood out to me as being purposely obstinate. Their use of inflammatory words, and sensationalist (and baseless) "what if" scenarios showed where they stood.

bpb101

randy hickey wrote: »

Unfortunately it's now official - he got in.

Actually pissed both him and zeapone got in. Of the people who get seats.

In my area i went 1-20 and left zappone blank

yubabill1

Cass wrote: »

M'eh.

With the (albeit slim) chance of a second election because of the larger parties refusal to enter into a coalition with one another and no one wanting a rainbow coalition he may have to go through it all again.

Even if we don't have a second election it's going to be a different Government to the last which means new members on the various review committees because of those that lost their seats. The last bit of good news is Kenny (Sean not Enda) and Mac Lochlainn retired or lost their seat. These were two that stood out to me as being purposely obstinate. Their use of inflammatory words, and sensationalist (and baseless) "what if" scenarios showed where they stood.

Fibber got in last of 5 and only by the slimmest margin after 12 counts, a full recount and another couple of counts after that.

I think a weak and precarious government helps our position, as they could fall for the smallest thing and will have to please everyone at every juncture.

The elephant in the room is Europe.......the migrant mess is destabilising the institution more than you might think. And Dragi has to pull an economic rabbit out of his hat in the next few weeks, as eu inflation has gone negative once again, while he has used all his interest rate ammo (they are negative right now - maxed out imho) and printing more QE money doesn't seem to have helped inflation.

Sparks

yubabill1 wrote: »

I think a weak and precarious government helps our position, as they could fall for the smallest thing and will have to please everyone at every juncture.

You think we'd have an easier time lobbying in that environment than a "won't someone think of the children" campaign against gun crime, or the ICABS mob?
It's not like we ever have a strong position, but anytime that there's political instability here or in the UK, it has never really benefited our sport. It tends to make it far easier to ramrod bans through instead, with backbenchers jumping at the chance for a few inches in the local paper.

bpb101

Sparks wrote: »

It's not like we ever have a strong position, but anytime that there's political instability here or in the UK, it has never really benefited our sport. It tends to make it far easier to ramrod bans through instead, with backbenchers jumping at the chance for a few inches in the local paper.

Reading this, it's sounds quite stupid, but the sad thing is that's your right.

It's so bloody stupid to think that is our sport is dependent on politics.
It's mad to think that the shooting forum has more politics in it that the politics forum

It says a lot when you have to think when your voting , who isent going to ban my sport. .

Cass

bpb101 wrote: »

It's mad to think that the shooting forum has more politics in it that the politics forum

Its maddening. Too much of it at times.

I understand the need for it, but it can be a time soak and for 98% of people irrelevant. You don't need to be involved, but i keep saying you (the general you, not you specifically) should at least want to know what is going on.

It says a lot when you have to think when your voting , who isent going to ban my sport. .

Or in the recent election which is the least worst. (some good English there )

yubabill1

Sparks wrote: »

You think we'd have an easier time lobbying in that environment than a "won't someone think of the children" campaign against gun crime, or the ICABS mob?
It's not like we ever have a strong position, but anytime that there's political instability here or in the UK, it has never really benefited our sport. It tends to make it far easier to ramrod bans through instead, with backbenchers jumping at the chance for a few inches in the local paper.

Agree we never had a strong position in the past, but disagree about politician's attitudes in next govt.

If a minority government is formed, they can't afford to put 100-200k shooter's noses out of joint any more than they can put gay's noses out ( or any other minority with a lobby).

We proved we are no longer going to sit down and take diktats without question and that we can unite when the chips are down, despite recent squabbles.

My 2c fwiw.

Sparks

I think perhaps you're overestimating our position - remember, we managed to get Michael McDowell to do a U-turn before on the licence fees, and despite being able to field that much resistance to a policy, were unable to stop the 2009 Act (even if we were able to deflect the worst of it) -- and the reason is that when they're looking at imminent elections, politicians move too fast for us to lobby against stupid stuff. But some mobs, like ICABS or eejits like McGrath lobbying against us, they don't need to wait, they just go straight to the press with whatever half-baked nonsense they can dream up and it rarely if ever comes back on them because they're not in a small, ill-understood minority. "Look at the cute widdle fox" or "Guns are bad, don't you get it?" don't need facts or figures or logic, they're just designed for soundbites and headlines, and the fact that they don't make sense doesn't count because nobody looks at yesterday's headlines.

bpb101

Cass wrote: »

Its maddening. Too much of it at times.

I understand the need for it, but it can be a time soak and for 98% of people irrelevant. You don't need to be involved, but i keep saying you (the general you, not you specifically) should at least want to know what is going on.


Or in the recent election which is the least worst. (some good English there )

Sparks wrote: »

I think perhaps you're overestimating our position - remember, we managed to get Michael McDowell to do a U-turn before on the licence fees, and despite being able to field that much resistance to a policy, were unable to stop the 2009 Act (even if we were able to deflect the worst of it) -- and the reason is that when they're looking at imminent elections, politicians move too fast for us to lobby against stupid stuff. But some mobs, like ICABS or eejits like McGrath lobbying against us, they don't need to wait, they just go straight to the press with whatever half-baked nonsense they can dream up and it rarely if ever comes back on them because they're not in a small, ill-understood minority. "Look at the cute widdle fox" or "Guns are bad, don't you get it?" don't need facts or figures or logic, they're just designed for soundbites and headlines, and the fact that they don't make sense doesn't count because nobody looks at yesterday's headlines.

yeah, i quite like politics(dont ask me why ) but it so crazy From somebody who isent involved or has no notion of the sports, it sound like these mad farmers found an old loophole in the law that allow them to buy a "gun" to protect their home and then some of them go out and rob post offices. And somebody like finian is standing up to the gun lobby and putting his life on the line for the children. (and the mad guys are getting state funding too buy the guns)

Cass

yubabill1 wrote: »

If a minority government is formed, they can't afford to put 100-200k shooter's noses out of joint any more than they can put gay's noses out ( or any other minority with a lobby).

Not a chance. We have an estimated 130,000 or so people with firearms. That is a best guess based on 200,000+ licenses and the amount of people with numerous licenses.

As i've said before break that 130,000 over the 26 counties and various constituencies and we have a national average of 5,000 per county or 3,000 per constituency. that does not even take into consideration the larger counties, and the fact that when it comes to shooting people have more important issues to be concerned with. I know i based my voting on the candidate that can do more in terms of "real life stuff" with shooting down on my list of priorities.

The issues surrounding gays/lesbians, etc. are a asocial one that the majority of people will either support or not be seen to disagree with.

Guns are a completely different kettle of fish, and the we will always be seen as nutters. So don't for one second overestimate the "power" we have because it doesn't exist, not when put up against public opinion.

We proved we are no longer going to sit down and take diktats without question and that we can unite when the chips are down, despite recent squabbles.
.

We are not unified and sooner we wake up to this and realise we're not going to all be signing from the same hymn sheet the better off we'll be as we can better spend the time normally used for the unifying cries into actual productive work. The fact that the Sports Coalition exist proves this.

However we don't need to be a unified group all the time, just on key issues. However that doesn't even happen. Just look at the petions over the years. We struggle to get 1,000 signatures our of an estimated 130,000 people.

bpb101 wrote: »

yeah, i quite like politics(dont ask me why ) but it so crazy From somebody who isent involved or has no notion of the sports, it sound like these mad farmers found an old loophole in the law that allow them to buy a "gun" to protect their home and then some of them go out and rob post offices.

No idea what you are talking about. Seriously, none.

And somebody like finian is standing up to the gun lobby and putting his life on the line for the children. (and the mad guys are getting state funding too buy the guns)

If we can drop the lobby talk, that'd be super. We don't have lobbying power. We have seen time and again how when the chips are down our "supporters" will drop us in a heartbeat.

Also Finian "Mustard" McGrath is doing what politicians do best. Make loads of noise, get in the good soundbite then sit back and watch us scramble to try and counter his ridiculous assertions.

yubabill1

Think you guys underestimate the power of social media and how it can work for us, as well as the power of pen and paper, as long as sensible points are made.

ICABS etc make emotive arguments, which are quite a powerful tool, but can only really affect us when some big adverse story breaks.

Positive thinking is a great thing.

Anti firearm /hunting legislation has always been passed when govt had a large majority, both here and in the uk.

We have demonstrated that any new firearms legislation will need the whip of such a large majority government to implement in the absence of a media storm.

Like I said, just my 2c.

gunny123

Cass wrote: »

Also Finian McGrath is doing what politicians do best. Make loads of noise, get in the good soundbite then sit back and watch us scramble to try and counter his ridiculous assertions.

For someone who was only elected at the 51st recount (hardly a ringing endorsement) Comrade Mcgrath is entering talks with fg on behalf of the independents today. Full article on the journal. God help us if he gets any power.

Cass

Yeah, i'm still in shock here at the sight of the Healy-Rae's outside Leinster house today.

Grizzly 45

There is a lesson to be taken too from ICABS..
They have been existience now for 50 years[est 1966] and despite supposedly having, and had political support for thier cause,including a political party and multiple media personalities and air time sympathetic to their views....What have they actually achived in 50 years grand total of all their aims?? Muzzled greyhounds,and banned carted stag hunting,to the detriment of their political party who should have been debating the ass falling out of the economy,not some Irish toffs chasing a stag about the countryside,and not even unlike their French counterparts , killing it.Also they have had a criminal element and an element radical enough to try and get instruction from an Ex Loyalist bomb maker once in Dublin...In short you can have all the optimal conditions for your agenda and belive public support exists in Ireland and nothing happens either.

And yet on our side ,after a 35 year forced hibernation for over 2/3rds of our sports, and a decade of blood,sweat,tears,political and law enforcement skullduggery and inter tribal fighting.We are still holding our own and proably punching above our weight class politically and proven legally in our courts as well as impressing the political class to a point that they are looking askence at anything their law enforcement has to say on the matter with dodgy statistics.So much that the people who wanted to ban stuff because they werte losing in court and beginning to cost the state money are now being watched to behave themselves. So it sometimes pays to fight even when the odds look hopeless and to actually belive and being capable of punching above your weight class will get you places or at least hold your own.

We are smarter,know now not to touch the media with a 20 foot pole,stil have CF hand guns and semi rifles[Unlike the UK and Austrailia,with bigger shooting communities and less terrorist groups running about]We still shoot game with no bag limits or cull plans[Unheard of anywhere in the EU or US ] and really truth be known compared to the EU,have an easy enough time of aquiring a firearm in the unrestricted category of things.
Its not all sunshine and lollipops without a doubt,but after 50 years we are still doing what ICABS and anti gun politicans and police has dismally failed to stop us doing.

Mc Grath and the indos.If they go into power with either FF/FG they will suffer the exact same fate as Labour and the Greens and the PDs,Democratic Left. They get their ass on a Dail seat and will be told STFU and make the tea like a good lad..Then go count the paper clips and sort them in your new office.Unless the Dail is reformed and everyone elected gets speaking time,you will hear from him once in a purple moon and no one of his constituents will be happy if he wastes precious speaking time on a personal hobby horse. I give this whole shambles about until Christmas and we will bne electioneering again.