Ireland vs Wales, Six Nations 2016, Sunday 7th Feb, 2016. KO 3PMGMT

CMOTDibbler

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Looking a few years down the line O'Halloran is the only name I can see being an international FB and that's mainly because there doesn't seem to be anyone else playing in the provinces that can do it. Leinster have been using Kirchner/Nacewa when not using Kearney. Ulster have been using Ludik, Payne occasionally and they've got Piutau coming in next season. Munster had Jones and now I think Conway? O'Halloran is the only potential FB that could come into the squad in the next few seasons. Whether he's good enough or not is a different story.

If I'm not mistaken Olding is also a fullback.

First Up

The Rape of Lucretia wrote:

When I heard it announced on the PA I was surprised. Good game, but two or 3 other more deserving - Mr J Heaslip - and a few others were similar level to Stander. I was wondering was it chosen by a certain former Munster and Ireland abrasive blindside pundit ? But that was just the cynic in me.

Was watching it with a bunch of mates - all played to a good standard and fairly knowledgable. We were all talking about Stander from the first whistle. He featured in just about every one of the first twenty plays. He was also leading and inspiring those around him.
Don't recall as impactful a debut by a loosie for many, many years.

bilston

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken Olding is also a fullback.

He has played there but he has played by far most of his games for Ulster in the centre, albeit he came on at FB against Georgia last season.

vienne86

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Lenihan, he had that one wrapped up before kick off. Stander just needed to be breathing to garne the accolade (he played well, but I would have gone with Heaslip or Roberts myself).

He was my best guess! But to be fair, I thought that a number of players deserved it, Stander was one of those for me.

stephen_n

Hagz wrote: »

The post match conference. Schmidt says it.

I didnt hear him say that. He said TOD passed the HIA but they decided to keep him on and that it looks like earls might have conccusion but we will have to keep an eye on him.

bilston

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

When I heard it announced on the PA I was surprised. Good game, but two or 3 other more deserving - Mr J Heaslip - and a few others were similar level to Stander.
I was wondering was it chosen by a certain former Munster and Ireland abrasive blindside pundit ? But that was just the cynic in me.

Ah I don't know, I thought Stander had a terrific game, he felt the pace later on but for a debut that was very good.

I'd probably have given it to Roberts myself. His battle with Henshaw was brilliant to watch.

irishbucsfan

Stander was MOTM in the first half for me. Heaslip in the 2nd maybe. Either way the two of them were brilliant together. And SOB is back next. SOB, Stander, Heaslip. Sean O'Brian, CJ Stander, Jamie Heaslip.

errlloyd

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Stander was MOTM in the first half for me. Heaslip in the 2nd maybe. Either way the two of them were brilliant together. And SOB is back next. SOB, Stander, Heaslip. Sean O'Brian, CJ Stander, Jamie Heaslip.

Do you mean sob at 6 or 7?

wp_rathead

errlloyd wrote: »

Do you mean sob at 6 or 7?

Nah I think IBF is just excited typing out our potential backrow

Billysays no

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Stander was MOTM in the first half for me. Heaslip in the 2nd maybe. Either way the two of them were brilliant together. And SOB is back next. SOB, Stander, Heaslip. Sean O'Brian, CJ Stander, Jamie Heaslip.

So we have that quality. But zebo moved to wing (please gilroy) and rob Kearney at full back (please o'halloran). All about form.

Cronin The Destroyer

SOB, Stander, Heaslip back row = wet your pants. Throw Henderson in and you're going to need a nappy.

irishbucsfan

That's Christiaan Johan Stander, James Peter Richard Heaslip and Sean Kevin O'Brien.

Bazzo

errlloyd wrote: »

Do you mean sob at 6 or 7?

Yes

Hagz

stephen_n wrote: »

I didnt hear him say that. He said TOD passed the HIA but they decided to keep him on and that it looks like earls might have conccusion but we will have to keep an eye on him.

He says it around the 4.30 mark.

Utah_Saint

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Looking a few years down the line O'Halloran is the only name I can see being an international FB and that's mainly because there doesn't seem to be anyone else playing in the provinces that can do it. Leinster have been using Kirchner/Nacewa when not using Kearney. Ulster have been using Ludik, Payne occasionally and they've got Piutau coming in next season. Munster had Jones and now I think Conway? O'Halloran is the only potential FB that could come into the squad in the next few seasons. Whether he's good enough or not is a different story.

Olding could potentially be an outstanding full back.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Olding could potentially be an outstanding full back.

Or an outstanding centre, or an outstanding 10

irishbucsfan

Hagz wrote: »

He says it around the 4.30 mark.

He said Earls passed the HIA but it looked like there was a concussive impact and he might be out next week. Fair enough really.

Hagz

stephen_n wrote: »

I didnt hear him say that. He said TOD passed the HIA but they decided to keep him on and that it looks like earls might have conccusion but we will have to keep an eye on him.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He said Earls passed the HIA but it looked like there was a concussive impact and he might be out next week. Fair enough really.

.

Billysays no

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Looking a few years down the line O'Halloran is the only name I can see being an international FB and that's mainly because there doesn't seem to be anyone else playing in the provinces that can do it. Leinster have been using Kirchner/Nacewa when not using Kearney. Ulster have been using Ludik, Payne occasionally and they've got Piutau coming in next season. Munster had Jones and now I think Conway? O'Halloran is the only potential FB that could come into the squad in the next few seasons. Whether he's good enough or not is a different story.

Its just an argument I don't understand. Years from now o'halloran will be our best fullback. He is our current best fullback. Stander is the best back row player on form. But let's pick Cian Healy, rob Kearney and to what end. Let's select zebo. Its so ludicrous

.ak

Billysays no wrote: »

Its just an argument I don't understand. Years from now o'halloran will be our best fullback. He is our current best fullback. Stander is the best back row player on form. But let's pick Cian Healy, rob Kearney and to what end. Let's select zebo. Its so ludicrous

TOH is in his hole the best fb in Ireland. Brilliant player but you're absolutely deluded.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Billysays no wrote: »

Its just an argument I don't understand. Years from now o'halloran will be our best fullback. He is our current best fullback. Stander is the best back row player on form. But let's pick Cian Healy, rob Kearney and to what end. Let's select zebo. Its so ludicrous

I'm not making an argument. It's a fact. Looking at who is playing FB in the provinces TOH is the only real option of a long term replacement for Rob K. That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying who should or shouldn't be picked now.

Neil3030

irishbucsfan wrote: »

That's Christiaan Johan Stander, James Peter Richard Heaslip and Sean Kevin O'Brien.

And one William Iain Henderson to bring back too!

case885

The Rape of Lucretia wrote:

Joe did explain how it was the midweek shortnoticeness of Robs withdrawal that had him go with the Zebo option. With a week to France, and given Zebo's characteristically flawed performance today, I expect we will go with another setup. Zeebs still looks like a safe bench though if Earls is out.

If Kearney is out, what is the other "setup" joes going to pick?
Let me guess, Payne to FB and shuffle the midfield? Not going to happen.

Billysays no

.ak wrote: »

TOH is in his hole the best fb in Ireland. Brilliant player but you're absolutely deluded.

Stander is the best player based on performance. O'halloran the same. Its gass the mention that olding can be fullback, maybe this maybe that. Tiernan not only plays full back, he has the respect of his team so he controls the back line. That's his difference. He doesn't step in, he takes control

errlloyd

People have been talking for weeks about moving Payne to fullback, I think I am the only one who wants Robbie Henshaw to go back to Fullback. This would be in preparation for the inevitable, McCloskey, Ringrose and Henshaw 12,13,15 we will see next year.

Hagz

Why the hell would you want your full-back controlling the back-line??

Zzippy

.ak wrote: »

TOH is in his hole the best fb in Ireland. Brilliant player but you're absolutely deluded.

Kearney is better, Payne is better but not playing there/considered there, TOH has probably been the most in-form this season though in the position. Really should have made the training squad and IMO would have been better than Zebo today.

Hagz

It's not much to say he's been the most in form in his position considering the only other irish qualified player who's been playing is Andrew Conway. He has been in good form though.

Billysays no

Hagz wrote: »

Why the hell would you want your full-back controlling the back-line??

It must be a Connacht thing. Tiernan directs players left and right to cover evident threats. Purely based on respect of his play. I would suspect he would require likewise of his back line if he played for Ireland. He takes no crap at Connacht. He works the back line. He ain't zebo. He is a leader. If you were to ask any player in Connacht then you would understand.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Billysays no wrote: »

It must be a Connacht thing. Tiernan directs players left and right to cover evident threats. Purely based on respect of his play. I would suspect he would require likewise of his back line if he played for Ireland. He takes no crap at Connacht. He works the back line. He ain't zebo. He is a leader. If you were to ask any player in Connacht then you would understand.

I'd be worried if our FB was running the back line at international level. Quite happy with 9 and/or 10 doing it.

Billysays no

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I'd be worried if our FB was running the back line at international level. Quite happy with 9 and/or 10 doing it.

That is such a worrying concept. You would have a 9 and10 control every aspect of the game. What is the point of a full back (agree we only have the zebo stuff to relate to) today. Tiernan takes no crap from HIS back line. And that's it. He directs, he works it. And that is what a fullback does. Not what we witnessed today. That is what a fullback does, he doesn't spend his time poncing around for the crack.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Billysays no wrote: »

That is such a worrying concept. You would have a 9 and10 control every aspect of the game. What is the point of a full back (agree we only have the zebo stuff to relate to) today. Tiernan takes no crap from HIS back line. And that's it. He directs, he works it. And that is what a fullback does. Not what we witnessed today.

I don't know if I'm misunderstanding you or the entire concept of rugby..... The 9 and 10 are generally closest to the breakdown and usually have the ball at the start of each phase so yes, it makes perfect sense for one or both to control every aspect of play, or at least the backs.

What's the point of a FB? To be at the back usually.

Brewster

Murray needlessly kicked the ball out on the full when under no pressure. From resulting lineout, which was from where Murray kicked it out, earls was penalised and Wales got 3 points. Just watching game again, it's fine margins at times. Really so fine. If kick stays in play, that phase probably doesn't happen and no penalty. Not hanging Murray out to dry, but just making point.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Brewster wrote: »

Murray needlessly kicked the ball out on the full when under no pressure. From resulting lineout, which was from where Murray kicked it out, earls was penalised and Wales got 3 points. Just watching game again, it's fine margins at times. Really so fine. If kick stays in play, that phase probably doesn't happen and no penalty. Not hanging Murray out to dry, but just making point.

Stander going for that try near the start when maybe a few more phases would have set up a better opportunity.

You can't really know what would have happened if these moments played out differently though. Someone else could make a mistake on the next phase that results in a try being conceded rather than 3 points. Unless it's something glaringly obvious like when Madigan tried a long pass against Toulon last year.

Billysays no

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I don't know if I'm misunderstanding you or the entire concept of rugby..... The 9 and 10 are generally closest to the breakdown and usually have the ball at the start of each phase so yes, it makes perfect sense for one or both to control every aspect of play, or at least the backs.

What's the point of a FB? To be at the back usually.

As the play develops the full back (being the last line of defense) arranges the play for that line of defense. Are you telling me he has no function. You must have being watching Kearney for too long. God another Joe. Zebo will be fine.

Brewster

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Stander going for that try near the start when maybe a few more phases would have set up a better opportunity.

You can't really know what would have happened if these moments played out differently though. Someone else could make a mistake on the next phase that results in a try being conceded rather than 3 points. Unless it's something glaringly obvious like when Madigan tried a long pass against Toulon last year.

It was a really bad error by Murray Tickle, his box kicking is usually spot on, but at this level mistakes like this can get punished. I'm not making a huge deal of it, it was unlucky that Wales got penalty and 3 points off next phase of play.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Brewster wrote: »

It was a really bad error by Murray Tickle, his box kicking is usually spot on, but at this level mistakes like this can get punished. I'm not making a huge deal of it, it was unlucky that Wales got penalty and 3 points off next phase of play.

I know, I'm just saying you can't really know what the outcome would be if the mistake didn't happen. Best way to avoid that question though is to not make the mistakes

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Billysays no wrote: »

As the play develops the full back (being the last line of defense) arranges the play for that line of defense. Are you telling me he has no function. You must have being watching Kearney for too long. God another Joe. Zebo will be fine.

I didn't say he had no function. I genuinely can't tell if you're being serious with this now.

Billysays no

Anyway we have r and d Kearney to save us next weekend. Think we should drop stander. He is obviously too good

Brewster

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I know, I'm just saying you can't really know what the outcome would be if the mistake didn't happen. Best way to avoid that question though is to not make the mistakes

Absolutely, on 2nd half now, twice in first ten minutes we turned over ball close to their line, once by White and once by Stander. We really didn't get as close to line for rest of half I recall. We needed to build pressure here and try to force the mistake.

The Black Stags

Billysays no wrote: »

As the play develops the full back (being the last line of defense) arranges the play for that line of defense. Are you telling me he has no function. You must have being watching Kearney for too long. God another Joe. Zebo will be fine.

How does a fullback arrange anything at international level when it is so bloody noisy in a stadium you'd have to be yelling in someones ear to be heard.


He'd have to be constantly out of position to organize everyone else.

Billysays no

Motions. Pity, ye guys have never seen the concept

sheep?

I think Bazzo might be drunk, or he really loved the few 11 posts. :P

Thinking back on it, fair play to Sexton for hitting that last penalty, especially carrying that knock.

Billysays no

sheep? wrote: »

I think Bazzo might be drunk, or he really loved the few 11 posts. :P

Thinking back on it, fair play to Sexton for hitting that last penalty, especially carrying that knock.

I noticed that as well :-).
Look I am a pain in the arse but honestly. A full back that does not direct a backline? Tiernan, it seems you need to show them how to play fullback.

irishbucsfan

Billysays no wrote: »

I noticed that as well :-).
Look I am a pain in the arse but honestly. A full back that does not direct a backline? Tiernan, it seems you need to show them how to play fullback.

He communicates with the other members of the back 3, it's entirely common and nothing at all unordinary.

ClanofLams

.ak wrote: »

TOH is in his hole the best fb in Ireland. Brilliant player but you're absolutely deluded.

I wouldn't say he's the best full back in Ireland although I wouldn't be as dismissive as the above to the notion. He's a better full back than Zebo though.

Hagz

O'Halloran is nothing more than a decent player enjoying a good run of form. He's never going to be a starter for Ireland and shouldn't expect to get more than 10 caps over the course of his career. That's the reality of the situation.

mfceiling

Billysays no wrote: »

It must be a Connacht thing. Tiernan directs players left and right to cover evident threats. Purely based on respect of his play. I would suspect he would require likewise of his back line if he played for Ireland. He takes no crap at Connacht. He works the back line. He ain't zebo. He is a leader. If you were to ask any player in Connacht then you would understand.

"Hi Connacht player"

"Hi"

"What's the story with TOH?"

"He's a leader"

"Ah lovely, now I understand"

flangemeistro

I don't have the time to read back through 88 pages of this but has anyone pointed out how Warburton absolutely steamrolled through Toner with no momentum behind him which let him through to McGrath which then led to Wales being getting 3 points.

I've never seen an international lock being so overpowered and humiliated.

Christ we're missing Henderson and O'Connell.

molloyjh

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I didn't say he had no function. I genuinely can't tell if you're being serious with this now.

Well he's calling you "another Joe" so I'd just take the compliment and move on.