Gangland Shootings in Dublin MOD Warning in Post #1 (updated 29/05/16)

tomofson

gangstergossip wrote: »

i would imagine it would be big news if the firearm was recovered, seems everyone here can agree that the facial recognition wouldnt be enough to convict and the gardai must have something concrete so could somebody thats been held have made a statement against the drag lady

Certain facts the gardai are sure to keep out of the media and out of public knowledge

Supernintento Chalmers

Prison will hardly be safe for him.

tomofson

Supernintento Chalmers wrote: »

Prison will hardly be safe for him.

He will join hes brother on protection there is a few of the H camp in there on the numbers

Tilly

Wonder will this be the end of it now

tomofson

Tilly wrote: »

Wonder will this be the end of it now

Very unlikely, If anything it might make the other side more brazen

Tilly

tomofson wrote: »

Very unlikely

Why not tho?

Nemesis......

Tilly wrote: »

Wonder will this be the end of it now

Unfortunately not a bit likely

tomofson

Tilly wrote: »

Why not tho?

With him off scene I'd say the others will get more brave and keep up the killing spree cause they know him and possibly a few others will be going to jail and not out and about to retaliate

This definitely won't be the end.
We are talking about gangs here with plenty of pals and sympathisers.
Someone else will step up when there's an opening.

Peter Anthony

Yeah I cant see why the other side would stop not like guards are going to stop them, most of the big names arent even in the country.

tomofson

It says in the article he is being charged in connection with the murder of Byrne. Is he being charged with Murder or some other offence in CONNECTION with Byrnes murder. They dont specifically say

JustTheOne

He's only 24???

bajer101

Supernintento Chalmers wrote: »

Prison will hardly be safe for him.

Straight into the medical wing I'd say. Segregated and safe.

tomofson

bajer101 wrote: »

Straight into the medical wing I'd say. Segregated and safe.

He'll have to go to cloverhill on remand do they have a medical wing or is that mountjoy?

Peter Anthony

tomofson wrote: »

It says in the article he is being charged in connection with the murder of Byrne. Is he being charged with Murder or some other offence in CONNECTION with Byrnes murder. They dont specifically say

I thought that also but Id say its with the murder. You can be charged for witholding information though, not sure what the procedure is but it happened a few times in recent murder cases. Why remanded for just 1 week though, in Court again next week?

humberklog

bajer101 wrote: »

Straight into the medical wing I'd say. Segregated and safe.

Well he certainly needs his head examined.

arayess

The flying mouse wrote: »

Anyway, it looks like the regency attack failed in everyone of its objectives, and its looking like the hutch side with the aid of the dissos vastly underestimated the kinahens, Wonder if this is the end or will the kinahens keep on targeting people allegedly involved, i.e. them who picked the shooters up in taxis and what not ?

it failed in it's main objective to kill DK
but they killed david byrne instead and caused a disruption to DK's illegal and boxing businesses.

David Byrne was a lot more significant to the kinahan cartel than anybody the kinahans have got on the other side.
aside from the emotional pain of course of loved ones being killed.

Bar Patrick Hutch and AOD they still have their full compliment of members free and out and about.
They would have known there would be a back lash from the kinahans and they didn't have similar resources to mount a tit for tat war.
They would have known that they could only rely on precise attacks rather than the scattergun approach of the kinahans.

If you look at how this has played out in what has actually happened - one side looks amateur and the other looks professional.

a junkie on a bike ffs versus an organised plan with automatic weapons...

not saying the hutch factor will win it's just that I wouldn't call time on the battle yet.
maybe an army of junkies on bikes will win against a smaller group who knows?

JustTheOne

JustTheOne wrote: »

He's only 24???

Why surprised??
The monk was 24 when he went to Marino, which was historic at the time.

tomofson

arayess wrote: »

it failed in it's main objective to kill DK
but they killed david byrne instead and caused a disruption to DK's illegal and boxing businesses.

David Byrne was a lot more significant to the kinahan cartel than anybody the kinahans have got on the other side.
aside from the emotional pain of course of loved ones being killed.

Bar Patrick Hutch and AOD they still have their full compliment of members free and out and about.
They would have known there would be a back lash from the kinahans and they didn't have similar resources to mount a tit for tat war.
They would have known that they could only rely on precise attacks rather than the scattergun approach of the kinahans.

If you look at how this has played out in what has actually happened - one side looks amateur and the other looks professional.

a junkie on a bike ffs versus an organised plan with automatic weapons...

not saying the hutch factor will win it's just that I wouldn't call time on the battle yet.
maybe an army of junkies on bikes will win against a smaller group who knows?

The addict on the bike was only one hit, all the others where highly organised and executed with profession, and what was so great about the H camps killing sure two of the ejits got there faces caught on camera hardly the height of professionalism.

Peter Anthony

Nemesis...... wrote: »

A fingerprint needs 12 impressions afaik to identify someone,i doubt without additional evidence that there would be a conviction, facial recognition would be useless in this case,its fairly strict whats allowed to be heard by a jury so you can bet the legal argument in this one would probably kill the case stone dead. It's a holding charge

I wonder will the fact the comparision pictures of him and the drag hitman, have been published by the Sunday World and on twitter, jeopardise his right to a fair process and trial. I would agree it looks like a holding charge. Would be hard to prosecute successfully.

tomofson

tomofson wrote: »

The addict on the bike was only one hit, all the others where highly organised and executed with profession, and what was so great about the H camps killing sure two of the ejits got there faces caught on camera hardly the height of professionalism.

They also decided to use taxis that could be easily traced.
Not to mention the fact that they settled for a lower level target, when the rumoured main target slipped away unseen!

Wreaks of hard men amateurs who don't care how many people are around and if they get hurt or not, they are untouchable as history has shown........or are they?

Peter Anthony

gangstergossip wrote: »

that seems to be the only evidence linking him to the crime that i know of anyway. i have facial recognition installed in my phone its not meant to unlock the phone for any face but mine but some of my mates can unlock it that look similar to me although i suppose the software the gardai are using is on a higher level but still there is reasonable doubt there for me. Yea id say they do want to take him off the streets he will no doubt seek high court bail be another thing if he gets it there would be many objections from the gardai id imagine

It doesnt sound too accurate! Just read this on it, I cannot see that being enough to successfully prosecute in a high profile murder case.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda%C3%AD-introduce-facial-recognition-to-identify-suspects-1.2094072

gangstergossip

Peter Anthony wrote: »

I wonder will the fact the comparision pictures of him and the drag hitman, have been published by the Sunday World and on twitter, jeopardise his right to a fair process and trial. I would agree it looks like a holding charge. Would be hard to prosecute successfully.

i wonder if it will even be a normal trial i have a feeling he could be charged in the special criminal court for this one no jury just the 3 judges its usually reserved for terrorists but they can also deal with serious organized crime. john gilligan brian meehan and hippo ward along with a few others were tried there in connection with the veronica guerin murder

arayess

tomofson wrote: »

The addict on the bike was only one hit, all the others where highly organised and executed with profession, and what was so great about the H camps killing sure two of the ejits got there faces caught on camera hardly the height of professionalism.

you've made fair points but I don't overly agree.
my main argument is that it's not over and don't rule out the hutch side just yet.

as for the regency one fella isn't in the hutch factor was just hired and the drag queen wouldnt have a rep like the others for much.

I'm not sure the other kinahan hits against soft target are jason bourne worthy myself.
ironically the only kinahan attack that actually mattered to the hutch gang was committed by that junkie on the bike.
I'll concede the Barr killing was professional however killing 2 grandads that weren't expecting it was lame stuff any fool who suspended their morals could do that.

Anyway I've heard rumour that the main shooter is off his head the whole time , I've a business out finglas direction and the gossip confirms what was said earlier in this thread.
auld ones...know it all

tomofson

Peter Anthony wrote: »

It doesnt sound too accurate! Just read this on it, I cannot see that being enough to successfully prosecute in a high profile murder case.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda%C3%AD-introduce-facial-recognition-to-identify-suspects-1.2094072

Well one time not too long ago someone wrote a bit of dumb graffiti on a cell wall and that was enough to prosecute a high profiled murder case, so I would imagine a detailed picture with gun in hand running meters away from a murder scene would be more than enough.

tomofson

arayess wrote: »

you've made fair points but I don't overly agree.
my main argument is that it's not over and don't rule out the hutch side just yet.

as for the regency one fella isn't in the hutch factor was just hired and the drag queen wouldnt have a rep like the others for much.

I'm not sure the other kinahan hits against soft target are jason bourne worthy myself.
ironically the only kinahan attack that actually mattered to the hutch gang was committed by that junkie on the bike.
I'll concede the Barr killing was professional however killing 2 grandads that weren't expecting it was lame stuff any fool who suspended their morals could do that.

Anyway I've heard rumour that the main shooter is off his head the whole time , I've a business out finglas direction and the gossip confirms what was said earlier in this thread.
auld ones...know it all

I dont disagree with any of what you say and I have made the point before in this thread of the Kinahan side not actually killing anyone of any major significance to the H camp

arayess

arayess wrote: »

you've made fair points but I don't overly agree.
my main argument is that it's not over and don't rule out the hutch side just yet.

as for the regency one fella isn't in the hutch factor was just hired and the drag queen wouldnt have a rep like the others for much.

I'm not sure the other kinahan hits against soft target are jason bourne worthy myself.
ironically the only kinahan attack that actually mattered to the hutch gang was committed by that junkie on the bike.
I'll concede the Barr killing was professional however killing 2 grandads that weren't expecting it was lame stuff any fool who suspended their morals could do that.

Anyway I've heard rumour that the main shooter is off his head the whole time , I've a business out finglas direction and the gossip confirms what was said earlier in this thread.
auld ones...know it all

2 grandads?
oh you can bet they were expecting it if you have read all of the information that has floated around about their involvement in some way!
The fact they were taken out shows whoever organised it, had plenty of inside knowledge about their involvement.

gangstergossip

tomofson wrote: »

The addict on the bike was only one hit, all the others where highly organised and executed with profession, and what was so great about the H camps killing sure two of the ejits got there faces caught on camera hardly the height of professionalism.

i wouldnt say the eddie hutch murder was to professional they didnt even rob the car they bought it off someone before they used it, then they failed to burn it out just scarpered off leaving a bottle of petrol in the car they planned to use to burn it

tomofson

gangstergossip wrote: »

i wouldnt say the eddie hutch murder was to professional they didnt even rob the car they bought it off someone before they used it, then they failed to burn it out just scarpered off leaving a bottle of petrol in the car they planned to use to burn it

Yeah your probably right on that one, thats why you dont act too quick out of anger and wait till you get your senses so you can plan carefully.

bajer101

There is definitely enough for a very good chance of a murder conviction. Picture of him holding a gun at the scene of the murder. Probable CCTV footage (the attempts to disable the hotel's CCTVs weren't successful). Witnesses. Motive. There is more than enough there to secure a murder conviction.

Peter Anthony

gangstergossip wrote: »

i wonder if it will even be a normal trial i have a feeling he could be charged in the special criminal court for this one no jury just the 3 judges its usually reserved for terrorists but they can also deal with serious organized crime. john gilligan brian meehan and hippo ward along with a few others were tried there in connection with the veronica guerin murder

Yeah probably so. I know Whacker Duffy is going on trial soon in the SCC, also they made a 2nd SCC to deal with the case load. Usually pretty much an IRA court though.

Nemesis......

tomofson wrote: »

He clearly wasn't wearing gloves when the shooting happened the firearm may have been recovered, but thats all just speculation

At the moment without a gun or clothes worn on the day or absolutely anything dna etc etc the case is completely dead in the water.

I was gobsmacked to hear there was a place raided last day or two looking for the fake garda uniforms,they are long gone,if they aren't there is some very silly people involved in this

gangstergossip

tomofson wrote: »

Well one time not too long ago someone wrote a bit of dumb graffiti on a cell wall and that was enough to prosecute a high profiled murder case, so I would imagine a detailed picture with gun in hand running meters away from a murder scene would be more than enough.

if your talking about the the melanie mccarthy murder case it wasnt graffiti that got daniel mcdonnell convicted he wrote letters boasting about the murder and didnt know the prison guards read all the mail sent in and out of the prison he wrote a letter to a friend saying how he blew morans girlfriend all over the front of the sunday world and said to a girl he killed her by mistake he was meant to shoot her boyfriend and then it was used in evidence against him

tomofson

gangstergossip wrote: »

if your talking about the the melanie mccarthy murder case it wasnt graffiti that got daniel mcdonnell convicted he wrote letters boasting about the murder and didnt know the prison guards read all the mail sent in and out of the prison he wrote a letter to a friend saying how he blew morans girlfriend all over the front of the sunday world and said to a girl he killed her by mistake he was meant to shoot her boyfriend and then it was used in evidence against him

He didn't say anything in the letters you wouldn't know from reading a newspaper in the days after the killing and the wording seemed more like a joke rap song. Anyways point being there is way more evidence to link PH to the DB murder than there was to link daniel mcdonnell to the melanie mccarthy murder.

gangstergossip

Nemesis...... wrote: »

At the moment without a gun or clothes worn on the day or absolutely anything dna etc etc the case is completely dead in the water.

I was gobsmacked to hear there was a place raided last day or two looking for the fake garda uniforms,they are long gone,if they aren't there is some very silly people involved in this

i know the IRA never get rid of weapons maybe there the same with garda uniforms lol

gangstergossip

tomofson wrote: »

He didn't say anything in the letters you wouldn't know from reading a newspaper in the days after the killing and the wording seemed more like a joke rap song. Anyways point being there is way more evidence to link PH to the DB murder than there was to link daniel mcdonnell to the melanie mccarthy murder.

either way its an idiotic thing to do when facing a urder charge lol

bajer101

tomofson wrote: »

He'll have to go to cloverhill on remand do they have a medical wing or is that mountjoy?

The main medical unit is in Mountjoy and I'd say he'll be sent there to join his cousin Alan who has been put there for no other reason than for his protection.

HeidiHeidi

Peter Anthony wrote: »

But its not actually a picture of him, it's a suspect dressed as a woman with heavy make up that may or may not be him. There is no weapon. Probably has a tight alibi. Highly doubt there is any witnesses who would testify at all or especially that it is him. No fingerprints, No DNA. nothing in interviews.

Motive and half baked CCTV and facial recogniton technology seems to be the height of it. Also add in complications of other potential cases like Flat Cap.

How on earth would/could you know this

bajer101

Peter Anthony wrote: »

But its not actually a picture of him, it's a suspect dressed as a woman with heavy make up that may or may not be him. There is no weapon. Probably has a tight alibi. Highly doubt there is any witnesses who would testify at all or especially that it is him. No fingerprints, No DNA. nothing in interviews.

Motive and half baked CCTV and facial recogniton technology seems to be the height of it. Also add in complications of other potential cases like Flat Cap.

We're getting into the realms of speculation here about a pending court case and it is probably best not to carry on this discussion as it could see this thread shut down.

123balltv

Something happen in Tallaght garda cars more than usual

JustTheOne

123balltv wrote: »

Something happen in Tallaght garda cars more than usual

Dublin is gone to the dogs.

tomofson

gangstergossip wrote: »

either way its an idiotic thing to do when facing a urder charge lol

He wasn't facing a murder charge at the time he wrote it he was hit with the murder charge because of what he wrote.

themandan6611

JustTheOne wrote: »

Dublin is gone to the dogs.

no no, Shelbourne Park is on tomorrow

gangstergossip

tomofson wrote: »

He wasn't facing a murder charge at the time he wrote it he was hit with the murder charge because of what he wrote.

he was in custody awaiting trial when he wrote them

tomofson

gangstergossip wrote: »

he was in custody awaiting trial when he wrote them

That was the only piece of evidence against him when he went to trial and that it is what he was solely and only what he was sent to trial on and convicted on.

gangstergossip

tomofson wrote: »

That was the only piece of evidence against him when he went to trial and that it is what he was solely and only what he was sent to trial on and convicted on.

yea i know that was the main evidence against him but he was arrested over the murder and placed in custody then wrote them i know a few lads from the area and they said he would do anything but wasnt the full shilling if you get me

bajer101

One thing that has struck me following the other pair of arrests, is that it now looks very likely that the son was indeed involved. He previously complained that he was subject to bullying from other members of his party. What sort of political party have we in our corridors of power who could bully a man who is seemingly involved in gangland?

gangstergossip

bajer101 wrote: »

One thing that has struck me following the other pair of arrests, is that it now looks very likely that the son was indeed involved. He previously complained that he was subject to bullying from other members of his party. What sort of political party have we in our corridors of power who could bully a man who is seemingly involved in gangland?

a powerful party by the sounds of it lol. But in all fairness i dont think hes ever been in any trouble before and the guards will put a lot of pressure on him i think hes the tyoe of guy that could crack and give them all up to save his own skin

Peter Anthony

gangstergossip wrote: »

a powerful party by the sounds of it lol. But in all fairness i dont think hes ever been in any trouble before and the guards will put a lot of pressure on him i think hes the tyoe of guy that could crack and give them all up to save his own skin

Cant see it considering where hes from and his family. But if he attempts to talk his way out of it like he did before, its only inviting trouble. In saying that I cant see him being charged, Id say he will be released with the rest.

bajer101

He might get released, but he's fúcked. It will take a lot more than his "hard earned" BMW car and motorbike to help him escape from this one. He got a nailed on GIM last week that left him shítting. It will be interesting to watch how his former party try to distance themselves from him.