General Election: Animal issues

Raminahobbin

I intend to email all my local candidates to see where they stand on certain Animal rights/welfare concerns, and I thought we could keep each other updated on the various responses in the coming days, if this is something you intend to consider when voting.

Off the top of my head, I'd like to ask questions about:
The restricted breed list
The horse welfare crisis
Puppy farms

Anyone got any more topic suggestions, or any idea of how to word questions on the above?

Raminahobbin

Raminahobbin wrote: »

I intend to email all my local candidates to see where they stand on certain Animal rights/welfare concerns, and I thought we could keep each other updated on the various responses in the coming days, if this is something you intend to consider when voting.

Off the top of my head, I'd like to ask questions about:
The restricted breed list
The horse welfare crisis
Puppy farms

Anyone got any more topic suggestions, or any idea of how to word questions on the above?

I have a link to a site which quotes different politicians from different counties in relation to their stance on animal welfare issues. If you're interested I can pm it to you. Like yourself I'll be asking any politicians when they call to my door what they plan to do about various animal welfare concerns like puppy farms.

KingBrian2

All those groups that support Foxhunting, Eagle poisoning or Badger/Deer culling won't be getting my vote I can tell you that.

VickieVexed1

Deleted User wrote: »

I have a link to a site which quotes different politicians from different counties in relation to their stance on animal welfare issues. If you're interested I can pm it to you. Like yourself I'll be asking any politicians when they call to my door what they plan to do about various animal welfare concerns like puppy farms.

Please, can you pm me that link?

Cherry Blossom

KingBrian2 wrote: »

All those groups that support Foxhunting, Eagle poisoning or Badger/Deer culling won't be getting my vote I can tell you that.

Who are these candidates that support eagle poisoning?

Manach

Given the tax on dogs (ie the license) what are the return that is given for the monies taken from people or does it just disappear into general tax take.

mymo

Deleted User wrote: »

I have a link to a site which quotes different politicians from different counties in relation to their stance on animal welfare issues. If you're interested I can pm it to you. Like yourself I'll be asking any politicians when they call to my door what they plan to do about various animal welfare concerns like puppy farms.

Can you pm me the link too, I'd like a look, haven't had a single canvasser yet. I have many questions, on many topics.

DBB

Manach wrote: »

Given the tax on dogs (ie the license) what are the return that is given for the monies taken from people or does it just disappear into general tax take.

No, it doesn't. The license money goes directly back to the running of the county pound, but comes nowhere near covering the annual cost of running the pound. Like them or loathe them, the pounds are a necessary evil, some run far better than others, but still a necessary evil.
It seems to be a common misconception that the dog license is a form of tax.

DBB

I'm not sure what good complaining about puppy farms will do, when our leaders saw fit to legalise the practice under the 2010 Dog Breeding Establishments legislation.

boomerang

Add to your list fur farming, hare coursing, bloodsports.

ganmo

Raminahobbin wrote: »

I intend to email all my local candidates to see where they stand on certain Animal rights/welfare concerns, and I t...

little bug bear of mine, animal rights is often are often at odds with good animal welfare practice

as regards the deer cull hopes, the ifa shot and tested 100 deer for tb ~25% were tb positive, they presented this to one of the committees where one of the conservation spokes people said that the sample was too small to draw a conclusion, so the conservationist want more shot?? talk about shooting yourself in the foot

Supporting Animal Rights and Animal Welfare are two different things.
Some animal rights groups wouldn't let us have dogs as pets.
Animal Welfare is about the care and safety of animals.
Some believe that animals should be treated the same as humans.

Our questions to Candidates need to be more specific. My bugbear are sulkies and how the horses are being treated on roads. I hate seeing those poor legs slapping of the hard tarmac. I've seen one slipping and struggling to keep its balance in traffic.
Coursing is a contest between two greyhounds and a much faster hare. Hare conservation and husbandry is high on the coursing clubs list of priorities. Would the hares survive as good as they do if coursing was banned?

loveisdivine

Deleted User wrote: »

Would the hares survive as good as they do if coursing was banned?

I'm pretty sure if we just left them alone they'd be fine. Humans seem to think we need to control the populations of other species (Never our own though, funnily enough) when in reality what we really need to do is leave them alone. Nature is perfectly capable of regulating itself. The only time humans need to intervene is when it's to fix a problem that we created in the first place.

Hare coursing is basically terrorising a hare for no legitimate reason whatsoever. No animal should ever be purposefully terrorised/frightened or put under stress particularly for the purpose of entertainment or sport.

thegreatgonzo

loveisdivine wrote: »

Hare coursing is basically terrorising a hare for no legitimate reason whatsoever. No animal should ever be purposefully terrorised/frightened or put under stress particularly for the purpose of entertainment or sport.

I do agree with you 100%, however the more I've seen has taught me that the greater damage is done by illegal bloodsports and their participants. As much as I dislike the practice of hare coursing I have to admit (unwillingly) that the hares are at least looked after up to the point of the contest and more of them escape than not.
If I had my wish nobody would engage in it, but that will never happen. What I think definately needs to happen is a clampdown on illegal bloodsports, badger baiting, lamping rabbits etc.

boomerang

Deleted User wrote: »

Coursing is a contest between two greyhounds and a much faster hare. Hare conservation and husbandry is high on the coursing clubs list of priorities. Would the hares survive as good as they do if coursing was banned?

But as recorded by veterinary inspectors that attend each meet, the hares (who are running for their life as far as they're concerned) are frequently injured and end up having to be euthanised. Not to mention the stress on a wild animal of capture and being kept confined - often illegally. Personally I think putting any animal through terror for the sake of a punt is barbarous.

boomerang

boomerang wrote: »

But as recorded by veterinary inspectors that attend each meet, the hares (who are running for their life as far as they're concerned) are frequently injured and end up having to be euthanised. Not to mention the stress on a wild animal of capture and being kept confined - often illegally. Personally I think putting any animal through terror for the sake of a punt is barbarous.

Where have you seen this reported? How many hares are put to sleep every year because of these injuries? I can't see Coursing banned any time soon, so lets look at it calmly and honestly.
I'm not a fan of Coursing, by any means. I've been to a few meetings and while I can appreciate the spectacle of 3 athletic animals running at full pelt, it did nothing for me. I can remember as a small child, my father and brothers going out to catch hares for the local club. It seemed a good healthy activity. The hares are released after the coursing, having been inoculated and treated for any illnesses they might have had.

boomerang

Here are extracts from the NPWS ranger reports for the 2011/12 hare coursing season:

Ennis/Clarecastle, December 10/11, 2011
According to ranger’s report, on day 1, 5 hares were hit, with 3 dying in escape after coursing. On day 2, 7 hares were hit, 2 killed, 4 injured, 1 put down and 2 died from injuries. This amounts to a total of 8 fatalities.

Gorey, 29/30 October, 2011
Over the two days of coursing 16 hares were hit by dogs, with 9 pinned and 7 dying of their injuries, according to NPWS ranger’s report. However, the vet’s report does not cite any hares injured or killed or euthanised.

Listowel, Co. Kerry, Oct 12/13, 2011
7 hares hit by greyhounds, 3 killed, 3 injured and 2 put down because of injuries, plus 1 died in coursing compound, a total of 7 fatalities.

Millstreet, December 30/31, 2011
3 hares were hit by dogs, 3 hares were dead at end of coursing. Ranger noted that “a number of hares (at least 3, probably more) had conjunctivitis, as confirmed by Vet. At least 9 hares had foot injuries.”

Murrintown, Wexford, 26/27 December, 2011
Ranger reported 6 hares hit by muzzled dogs on Day 2, with 6 injured and 2 killed. Meanwhile veterinary report cited 12 hares unfit for coursing, 4 hares injured and 16 “sick or otherwise unfit” after coursing. According to this coursing club’s Hare Capture Return, 86 hares were captured for coursing. However a number of 75 were cited at the start of coursing on day 1, leaving a discrepancy of 11 hares. In a memo from the ranger to his superior, he cited that the club informed him that they had a “break in on their hare paddock” and that “8 hares were missing and 3 killed”.

Tradaree, November 12/13, 2011, 2011
On day 1, 2 hares were hit and 1 killed. On day 2, ranger noted that 4 hares had died overnight and 1 after coursing. Vet’s report stated that 9 hares were “unfit for coursing, 1 injured and 1 unfit after coursing.

Thurles District, 29/30, October, 2011
10 hares hit over the two days, 2 hares killed, 2 injured and 2 died overnight in coursing compound.

Kilflynn, Co. Kerry, October 1 & 2, 2011
12 hares hit by dogs, 3 hares killed, 3 died of “natural causes”, 1 injured and 1 put down because of injuries.

Sevenhouses, Kilkenny, January 14/15
12 hares hit by muzzled dogs, 1 killed, 4 injured and 1 put down because of injuries.

Lixnaw, Co. Kerry, November 4/5/6, 2011
2 hares hit by greyhounds, 1 killed and 1 died of “natural causes”. Veterinary report answers ‘Nil’ to all questions regarding welfare of hares and makes no reference to any hare killed or dying of “natural causes”, despite the ranger’s ticking the yes box to veterinary involvement question.

Parksgrove, North Kilkenny, December 26/27, 2011
13 hares hit by muzzled dogs, 2 killed 2 put down because of injuries, with 2 “escaped”. Veterinary report states 2 hares injured, but no reference to 2 hares that had to be put down. The vet was noted as being “on call”. Who put down the hares, if not the vet?

Mitchelstown, November 5/6, 2011
7 hares hit by dogs, 3 injured and 2 put down as a result of their injuries, plus 1 found dead in escape.

Abbeydorney, Co. Kerry, October 22/23, 2011
6 hares hit by greyhounds, 1 killed.

Limerick City, November 5/6, 2011
10 hares struck by greyhounds, with 4 injured and 1 put down because of injuries, 1 “escaped”.

Enniscorthy, Co. Wexford, November 26/27, 2011
7 hares struck by greyhounds with 3 injured. Despite the fact that it was indicated on the ranger’s report that there as veterinary involvement in the meeting, the vet cited nil hares injured at the meeting, so it would appear that these hares were not examined

Balbriggan, November 26/27, 2011
9 hares hit, 1 injured, according to NPWS ranger, with vet’s report stating that 2 hares were injured and 2 “sick or otherwise unfit” after coursing, and ICC control steward stating that 1 died of natural causes, and 1 injured hare released – did this receive veterinary attention?

Westmeath United, October 15/16, 2011
Ranger described coursing as follows: “There were 9 hares hit on Day 1. Of these, one hare was tossed and rolled on the ground; another hare was tossed and mauled; another was mauled on the ground by the two dogs and placed in a wooden box; another was hit about five times and mauled on the ground by the dogs. When the dog owners came running in, one of them grabbed the hare and lifted it away from the dogs by its side and then the steward took it from him and handled it in a more appropriate manner. The hare cried with what I presume was distress during this incident. The steward placed this hare in the wooden box. Another hare was tossed and badly mauled by the dogs later in the day. In all, 3 hit hares were retrieved and placed in a wooden box,” which was subsequently taken away by the vet, who stated in his report that 1 died and 2 were released.

Fermoy, October 19/20, 2011
6 hares hit by muzzled dogs, 1 injured and 1 put down because of injuries, with the ranger being informed that a hare was found dead the morning after in the escape. Vet’s report stated that 5 hares were injured (4 more than ranger stated) with 1 hare euthanised.

Ballyduff, Co. Kerry, November 18/19, 2011
4 hares hit by dogs, and 1 died of “natural causes”. Despite the fact that it was stated that there was veterinary involvement, the vet’s report made no mention of the hare death.

Ballyheighue, Co. Kerry, October 14/15/16, 2011
Ranger didn’t attend on Day 1. 4 hares struck over 2 days, with 1 hare killed and 1 dying of “natural causes”.

Limerick Regional, Clarina, October 15/16, 2012
15 hares hit by dogs, 5 “pinned” and 10 “tipped”, 5 injured and 2 died of injuries. Ranger stated that a post mortem was sought on the hares that died, with his line manager requesting via a note on the form the findings of the post mortem, stating “I presume it was internal injuries rather than muzzles coming off?” Ranger noted “Yes – muzzles did not come off.”

Ballinaboola, New Ross, October 8/9, 2011
14 hares hit by dogs, 14 hares injured, 1 killed and 1 died from injuries. Vet noted just 1 hare injured and 1 “sick or otherwise unfit after coursing”, in contrast to the 14 noted by the ranger. Did vet inspect any injured hares?

Loughrea, October 22/23, 2011
14 hares hit by muzzled dogs, with 3 put down because of injuries. It was noted that 3 hares were “unaccounted for” on release. According to the ranger’s notes, it was realised on release that a hare was injured, and it was then brought to the vet and euthanised.

Glin, Co. Limerick, October 7/8/9, 2011
Ranger stated that 2 hares were killed.

Nenagh, December 17/18, 2011
4 hares hit by muzzled dogs.

Mallow, October 22/23, 2011
9 hares hit by muzzled dogs, and 1 “escaped” from paddock.

Galway & Oranmore, Nov 10 & 11, 2011
10 hares hit, 4 pinned.

Charleville, Oct 29/30,2011
5 hares hit. It was stated that no vet was present, but on call, while the ICC control steward said there was veterinary involvement. The vet completed a veterinary report, despite not being present.

Castleisland, Co.Kerry, October 30/31, 2011
1 hare hit by muzzled dogs.

Castletown-Geoghegan, Co. Westmeath, December 17/18, 2011
6 hares hit by muzzled dogs, with 1 “bad grazing”. Vet stated 2 hares were injured.

East Donegal, December 3 and 4, 2011
Ranger stated 1 hare hit, 1 injured and died from injury.

Link to article

DBB

Boomerang, that is one of the saddest, most upsetting things I've ever read.
The anomalies between rangers and vets, the injuries, the deaths, the fear... All in the name of entertainment. Makes you embarrassed to be human

endacl

My bugbear is Smithfield horse fair. Traditional Dublin institution me hole. That needs to be shut down. And the question of young fellas with no capacity to look after large animals mistakingly believing they have a 'right' to keep them, simply because they want to keep them. That needs to be addressed.

Before I'm accused of snobbery, I've worked for years with 'young fellas'. If they learned 'No, because I say so' from their parent(s), there'd be no need for people to work with 'young fellas'.