Rewire of a house

hufpc8w3adnk65

Hi lads just a quick question. I'm in the middle of buying an old house that I'll be totally re-wireing. I am a sparks and all will certified too meet standards. I'm just trying too think outside the box as in extras too install while I'm doing it. Outside the normal double socket on every wall and light in every room etc I'm thinking a minimum 2 X 50 oham coax in every room back too the attic as well as 1 minimum kat 5e/kat 6 too attic which can be used for landline or Internet (do people still wire houses with landlines?). Power for garden lights/shed down the road front and back ran back too fuse box for connection later. Outside socket with double pole switch inside too turn it on and off (Christmas lights, lawn mower etc) any help from lads who have done a new build or rewire recently would be great as most of my work since the down turn has been in maintenance and I'd prefer too be looking at a cable for a few months then looking for a cable in a few months. I know any spare cables will need too terminated off into jb's etc before certification.
As allways all advice appriciated

2011

If it was my house:

Heating Controls
3 zones minimum, upstairs, downstairs and domestic hot water.
Each zone would have a stat and a zone valve. Each zone would be supplied from a different channel from the time clock.
Why? Because this would save me money and provide me with superior control.

TV
I don't agree with TVs in bedrooms (thats just me). I only have a TV in the sitting room, however I am toying with the idea of putting one in the kitchen. If I had the opportunity I would wire a HDMI cable from the satellite receiver in the sitting room to the TV point in the kitchen. That way I wouldn't need a satellite receiver in the kitchen. I know that both TV's would have to be on the same station but as both would have Apple TV's / Netflix or similar it would not really matter. I would also like a CAT6 at each TV point.

On another note my german friend (in typical german fashion) bought a fantastic satellite dish, far superior to the rusty low quality Sky type dish that I have. The main difference is that his will last.
I will post the details here when I get them.

I have Saorview so I would like 3 coax at each TV point.

Structured Network
A CAT6 from multiple points throughout the house back to a central location such as the utility room. The phone line would also come to this point.

Network points for:
●Every bedroom
●TV satellite receiver
●TV point
●Wifi router points
●CCTV points
●NAS
●Intruder alarm panel
●Anywhere else you can think of

Remember any network point can be used as a phone point.
Also to answer your question, phone lines are frequently used to bring broadband into the house.

Intruder Alarm System
4 core to every perimeter door, window. Wire as makes sense "zone wise"
4 core to every keypad
6 core to every PIR
6 core to bell box
1.5 T+E to alarm panel. Put the panel somewhere hard for an intruder to find yet not too hard to work on.

Note intruder alarms can now be used to switch heating on and off from an app on your phone. They can even switch the heating off if you open windows as you can programme a cause / effect matrix. My advice would be to ask a few installers for advice on the Home Security Systems Forum.

Also I would seriously consider wiring smoke, heat and carbon monoxide detectors to the intruder alarm system.


Sound System
I have a Bose 5.1 surround sound system in my sitting room. This is wired to a pair of speakers in my kitchen. I can easily extend this system but I don't feel the need. All TV sound is routed through this system. I can also stream directly from my iPhone, iPad or iMac to this system. I love it. The most important points when wiring are:
●Speaker positioning - Most people mount the surround speakers to high, they should be ear height when you are sitting down. This makes a big difference.
●Use high quality speaker cable.

Distribution Board
Can this be installed in the utility room? They look ugly in the hall IMHO.
I would also install an RCBO per socket circuit. Install an oversize the distribution board.

I gotta go, will post some more if I have a chance.

Wearb

To the above list I would add generator wiring.

Luckysasha

I installed my outside lights through a contactor. They are double switched from the front and back doors as normal but the contactor can be pulled in via a 12v relay with a delay off from the alarm panel. So if my alarm goes off the outside lights come on and stay on for 3 mins after the alarm is unset.

hufpc8w3adnk65

@2011
There's ALOT there and I thank you. I'm on the touch site so excuse the bullet point replays.

Heating controls.
Yes i will have minimum 3 zones maybe 4 as I may split kitchen/dining (most used areas) from the down stairs WC hall and not used sitting room (my miss's is allways cold so toying with the idea of splitting this.

Tv

Can I ask why run a HDMI from reciever when you cannot control channels from kitchen? Why not a magic eye if it's sky so you can change the channel or even a coax and k6 and buy a cheap box (we all know the ones that are out there) and you'll have a second source for under €200 HDMI makes zero sence too me. I currently have basic sky in front room (magic eye too kitchen & bedroom & dining room) a "satellite box" and android box all in the front room and a second "satellite box" in the eldest child's room.

Phones
I was just wondering if phones were still the standard. Yes I'll have k5/6 in every room and hall too central location tho

Alarms
I have no expierence in domestic alarms but would not be opposed too installing one. Or first fixing it too then have a more expierenced person (certified) commission at a later date. Would first fixing this be easy?

Remote control
I have used climote in the past and may go down that road aswell this time I haven't decided yet. But some sort of remote access controller will be fitted near my "services" area.

Smokies
I will have smokies (mains operated interlinked) in the hall landing & attic. Heat in kitchen and carbon monoxide near boiler flu.

Distribution board
There is no utility room in this house also as the esb side of things was upgraded 5 years ago (date on tags) I have no Intention of moving the db and getting the esb out too reconnect as its a charge I don't need.
20 amp combis on each socket circuit is something I will do. 10amp combi for bathroom circuit. I will most likely have a two row fuse board running up and down lights, smokes, sockets, immersion, boiler mains, shower rcbo, then have a second two row board right next too it with heating control cables, outside lights, power too shed, garden lights and any other "extras" and mount climote and timers etc under this board maybe have a photo cell on the outside again ran back too here and I can decide what will switch what after wards and what contractors do what

2011

Response via iPhone as I am out and about.

Regarding TV:
I don't have Sky as I am not a fan. In fact I see it is a rip off. I get everything I need from a comi box (Saorview & astra into one box with fibre optic connection to my sound system) for free. A minimalist look is more important to me than being able to change channels. I know this would be a pain for many.
However I also have the option of installing an IR extender. These discreet devices I am told make it possible to change channels from another room.

Besides I think the days of "traditional TV" are numbered. I use Netflix, RTE player, BBC iPlayer and 4OD more than satellite. I also have my main TV connected to a Macmini and it is connected to a 6TB of network storage devices.

2011

Back home now so post quality should improve :D

MrMac84 wrote: »

Heating controls.
Yes i will have minimum 3 zones maybe 4 as I may split kitchen/dining (most used areas) from the down stairs WC hall and not used sitting room

Makes sense.

Phones
I was just wondering if phones were still the standard. Yes I'll have k5/6 in every room and hall too central location tho

Any network point can be used as a phone point (just put an RJ45 no the phone cable and patch it in).
If a landline is required I think that a cordless or two with the base station in an out of the way location will be more than enough.

Alarms
I have no expierence in domestic alarms but would not be opposed too installing one. Or first fixing it too then have a more expierenced person (certified) commission at a later date. Would first fixing this be easy?

Yes, very simple to first fix.
There are wireless options but these should only be considered if there is no viable alternative.
Wireless costs more, each wireless device requires a battery and as they are more complex devices there is more to go wrong.
I am not saying that they are not ups to the job, simply get the wiring in if you can.
Many modern alarm systems are hybrid, this means that they can use a combination of wired and wireless sensors.

Remote control
I have used climote in the past and may go down that road aswell this time I haven't decided yet. But some sort of remote access controller will be fitted near my "services" area.

The advantage of getting the alarm to do this is that there is no additional charge.
My understanding is that there is a recurring cost for "running" the Climote (for the SIM card).

Smokies
I will have smokies (mains operated interlinked) in the hall landing & attic. Heat in kitchen and carbon monoxide near boiler flu.

I have the Nest combined smoke and carbon monoxide detectors. I would consider carbon monoxide detectors in any room with a stove / fire.

Distribution board
There is no utility room in this house also as the esb side of things was upgraded 5 years ago (date on tags) I have no Intention of moving the db and getting the esb out too reconnect as its a charge I don't need.

The ESB are not required for any alterations on the customer side of the meter. Unless you have an old type ESB meter there is no ESB seal on your side of the meter.

20 amp combis on each socket circuit is something I will do.

Nice one.

10amp combi for bathroom circuit.

I understand that this is a regulation for 230VAC bathroom lighting, but I don't like it. The way to get around this is to use 12VDC lighting in the bathroom.

maybe have a photo cell on the outside again ran back too here

I would not do this. Photocells are troublesome and a pain in the @rse. An "Astro Clock" is the way to go. Without having the inconvenience of having to install a photocell these units are preprogrammed to know every sunrise and sunset.
It is possible to set a special programme with these units.
Example: Turn on lights 30 minutes after sunset. Then turn off the lights from 12 midnight to 6am. Then keep the lights on until 20 minutes before sunrise.
There are two channel versions of the same, each channel can be programmed differently.
In addition these devices have a manual on & manual off override.
I used the Legrand Astro Clock in the past, they are excellent.

I can decide what will switch what after wards and what contractors do what

As already stated intruder alarms have "technical zones". These are dry contacts that can be programmed to change state depending on different alarm states. For example if the alarm activates a set of normally open contacts can be set up close. This could be used to energise a 12VDC relay. The relay could be used to drive contractors to switch lights etc. Some people want all outside lights to switch on when the alarm activates and to revert to their previous state when the alarm code is entered.

All of this can be discussed with the alarm installer. It is best to select your alarm installer before you make decisions about the alarm system.

My advise: Be careful not to get roped into an expensive monitoring and maintenance contract! Also I would recommend that you avoid systems that depend solely on PIRs (motion detectors) for detection. These are vastly inferior systems as they can only detect an intruder once the intruder has entered the premises and they have to be completely switched off when the occupants are in the premises. Alarms with full perimeter protection detect before the intruder has entered and can be armed while the house is occupied. That makes all the difference in my opinion, these are the main reasons that I do not like the PhoneWatch alarm systems.

hufpc8w3adnk65

RE the alarm

If I was first fixing my self I just loop a 6core cable from the panel too all windows and doors? Do I close the loop back like a ring main? Also I bring a 6 core from the keypad too the panel?

Bruthal

MrMac84 wrote: »

RE the alarm

If I was first fixing my self I just loop a 6core cable from the panel too all windows and doors? Do I close the loop back like a ring main? Also I bring a 6 core from the keypad too the panel?

Bring a 4 core from panel to windows you want in each zone. So if you had upstairs windows as a zone, you bring a 4 core from panel to a window upstairs, and loop on to the other upstairs windows. Stop at last one like a radial circuit. I have upstairs front, upstairs back, downstairs front, downstairs back as separate zones.

A separate 4 core to the front door as you want that to have a time countdown for coming in the door, and going out, anything else opened will be instant alarm.

hufpc8w3adnk65

Bruthal wrote: »

Bring a 4 core from panel to windows you want in each zone. So if you had upstairs windows as a zone, you bring a 4 core from panel to a window upstairs, and loop on to the other upstairs windows. Stop at last one like a radial circuit. I have upstairs front, upstairs back, downstairs front, downstairs back as separate zones.

A separate 4 core to the front door as you want that to have a time countdown for coming in the door, and going out, anything else opened will be instant alarm.

That makes sence spitting up front and back. I'll put the back door on the same loop then as the back Windows. How do I do the sensors then lads? I think their motion sensors you see them in the cornor of the hall up high
Or is there not much point fitting these if all windows and doors are covered?

Bruthal

6 core to motion sensor (pir), (a separate 6 core to any if more than one), as they need a power supply as well as the tamper and alarm pairs.

hufpc8w3adnk65

Bruthal wrote: »

6 core to motion sensor (pir), (a separate 6 core to any if more than one), as they need a power supply as well as the tamper and alarm pairs.

Would these only normally go in hallways? As I said above if all the windows and doors are covered I prob don't need them

Bruthal

I have one in the hallway myself. They are like a last resort, another layer of protection if someone somehow gets in without activating a window or door contact.

hufpc8w3adnk65

Bruthal wrote: »

I have one in the hallway myself. They are like a last resort, another layer of protection if someone somehow gets in without activating a window or door contact.

I assume then that if a dog or cat was wondering around at night with this armed they would trigger it? Maybe no harm too install one tho as you state as a last resort

Bruthal

MrMac84 wrote: »

I assume then that if a dog or cat was wondering around at night with this armed they would trigger it? Maybe no harm too install one tho as you state as a last resort

Yes the oul cat will set it off. I had a bird down the chimney before, setting my one off.

Id say its recommended to have at least one in the hall anyway.

Stoner

Bruthal wrote:

Yes the oul cat will set it off. I had a bird down the chimney before, setting my one off.

Or a mouse in a garage if you keep the pir near a shelf.

tedimc

In the middle of re-wiring myself - a couple of others items:
Camera / CCTV; either/both coax, Cat6, 12V/220V, etc.
Get a lighting consultant to plan out a lighting plan.
Discrete motion sensor in each room for intelligent lighting.
Wall mounted points for tablet charging.
Plenty of USB points.
Smoke in each room.
Attic/basement lighting on PIR

hufpc8w3adnk65

tedimc wrote: »

In the middle of re-wiring myself - a couple of others items:
Camera / CCTV; either/both coax, Cat6, 12V/220V, etc.
Get a lighting consultant to plan out a lighting plan.
Discrete motion sensor in each room for intelligent lighting.
Wall mounted points for tablet charging.
Plenty of USB points.
Smoke in each room.
Attic/basement lighting on PIR

Glad you brought up CCTV actually I will be installing a few exterior cameras. I'd like too have the DVR near the tv so if there's a knock on the door or a noise I can change source on the tv and see who's at the door but I also need too secure the DVR so if there's a break in they don't just pick it up and walk away with it. Any suggestions?

tedimc

You don't necessary need the DVR beside the TV. I was planning on keeping all video sources centrally and then cable them to each TV point. There are products like HD anywhere or HD matrix which would do the job, but are expensive.

Lower cost - put the DVR somewhere safe. Look up CAT/HDMI Baluns which allow HD over CAT 6 and just cable them into the TVs source connection.

Another option - use a cheap computer/raspberry PI as a thin client for the CCTV footage connecting over your home WiFi network to the DVR.

2011

Or simply record to the cloud and don't have a DVR. Far more secure.

riclad

Even if you dont subscribe to sky ,you can get filmfour, bbc,itv,true movies free from a standard sky reciever .
A coax cable wired into the kitchen from the front room will give you the option of adding a
magic eye sender and changing the channels from the kitchen .i would run
ethernet from the front room or hall,.
where the router might be.
To 2 rooms upstairs .Where the wifi signal might be weak.
The router is usually near where the phone or tv cable enters the building .
or near the main phone socket .
run 2 sky satellite cables into the front room to enable dual channel recording .

goalscoringhero

I'd run 1-2 electric sockets into the bathrooms.

Would give the benefit of doing any electric beauty business there (shaving, charging electric toothbrush, hair dryer), and not letting these items clutter other any living areas.

I find it difficult to understand why this isn't the practice in Ireland. On the continent it is common.

2011

goalscoringhero wrote: »

I'd run 1-2 electric sockets into the bathrooms.

This is against regulations (ET101:2008).

Would give the benefit of doing any electric beauty business there (shaving, charging electric toothbrush, hair dryer), and not letting these items clutter other any living areas.

Most of us don't run a beauty salon from our home :D
(apparently, I am beautiful just as I am).

However all of those items may be installed in a safe and compliant way in a bathroom.

I find it difficult to understand why this isn't the practice in Ireland. On the continent it is common.

Statistically a bathroom is a very dangerous place.
If someone is electrocuted and water is also present the chances of the shock being fatal increase dramatically.

Google is your friend

hufpc8w3adnk65

goalscoringhero wrote: »

I'd run 1-2 electric sockets into the bathrooms.

Would give the benefit of doing any electric beauty business there (shaving, charging electric toothbrush, hair dryer), and not letting these items clutter other any living areas.

I find it difficult to understand why this isn't the practice in Ireland. On the continent it is common.

There's so much wrong with this comment I don't know where too start

gctest50

goalscoringhero wrote: »

...
I find it difficult to understand why this isn't the practice in Ireland. On the continent it is common.

Easy - cos here a few people would be like this :




get all confused, fill the bath , get an extension lead and throw the hairdryer in

gctest50

MrMac84 wrote: »

There's so much wrong with this comment I don't know where too start

best not look at this then

hufpc8w3adnk65

Starting this project in the next few weeks as I was awaiting the keys so if anyone thinks of any thing else do share