Gangland Crime

SNAKEDOC

If footage of them or pictures of them are shown all over the place then there is an arguement that a fair trial cannot be recieved. Its simple as that. And yes your right footage of thefts from petrol stations and ships are shown to track down people with the publica aid after the gardai give the go ahead on it but the shooting at the hitsl and a theft of a few pairs of knickers from pennies is hardly the same thing. Those puctures have probably been seen by everyone in the country and a lot over seas due to the president of the act so yes yhey were right to blot out their faces incase they were to jepordise any future case

TallGlass

SNAKEDOC wrote: »

If footage of them or pictures of them are shown all over the place then there is an arguement that a fair trial cannot be recieved. Its simple as that. And yes your right footage of thefts from petrol stations and ships are shown to track down people with the publica aid after the gardai give the go ahead on it but the shooting at the hitsl and a theft of a few pairs of knickers from pennies is hardly the same thing. Those puctures have probably been seen by everyone in the country and a lot over seas due to the president of the act so yes yhey were right to blot out their faces incase they were to jepordise any future case

Well if that is the case then, why not next page in the paper have two pictures zoomed in on there faces, saying do you know who these people are as they are wanted in relational to a serious crime, that wouldn't imply what crime they have committed and leave it too the reader to put the pieces together.

Absolute madness that you can't show a picture of there faces, there running away from a shooting with guns in there hands FFS.

What ever about fair trail they'll most likely get 8/10 years with some suspended, these chaps need to be removed from the streets ASAP, highly dangerous.

SNAKEDOC

I totally agree with you mate but the fact remains it leaves a massive hole there for a solicitor to argue that his client faces a guilty until proven innocent thing and it puts a conviction in question. The paper did the right thing though which is protect a possible charge if they are caught which will be all the more likely that the proper authorities will have seen the pictures.
On a seperate issue BBC are reporting that dissident republicans are claimin reaponsibility which means it may not have been a hutch army hit after all and if so the shooting of the monks brother will have soarked a war anyway and its now a three horse race

carzony

SNAKEDOC wrote: »

On a seperate issue BBC are reporting that dissident republicans are claimin reaponsibility

I think RTE already stated that the dissident republican was a false lead.

SNAKEDOC

Oh right i hadn't heard that. Just saw the report from BBC on the app late last night

afatbollix

Id say the Gaurds know full well who they are and don't need a crime stopper PR campaign.

carzony

afatbollix wrote: »

Id say the Gaurds know full well who they are and don't need a crime stopper PR campaign.

The Guards don't know everything, Recent events have proved that..

Preset No.3

The double posting issue again and then delete it.

What was the exact issue with the UZI's been withdrawn from use? Was it the cost of servicing, were they too old?

It annoys me so much that you can walk into a Toy r US in the american and the private security guard has a glock strapped to his hip but law enforcement in this country cant have any kind of decent weapons to defend themselves and our country.

crusier

Personally I reckon survellience gardai were there but could not intervene due to the firepower and it's likely slipped away when uniforms came, I can't believe such an event was not monitored by some section of the gardai

kub

crusier wrote: »

Personally I reckon survellience gardai were there but could not intervene due to the firepower and it's likely slipped away when uniforms came, I can't believe such an event was not monitored by some section of the gardai

Well i reckon if they had been then as they were surveillance Gardai there, that the response to the incident would have been much quicker than that reported as the suspects would have been seen approaching / entering the premises

crusier

Not if survellience was on the other gang who were inside, survellience could be just one garda and he cannot be at the door looking to see who's coming and watching the others as well. Beggars belief no one was there

kub

crusier wrote: »

Not if survellience was on the other gang who were inside, survellience could be just one garda and he cannot be at the door looking to see who's coming and watching the others as well. Beggars belief no one was there

Well to be fair, how are we to know how surveillance Gardai operate? As i said i am simply assuming that they would have had some way of contacting back up. We will never know.

Green Peter

kub wrote:

Well to be fair, how are we to know how surveillance Gardai operate? As i said i am simply assuming that they would have had some way of contacting back up. We will never know.

In fairness, their call would be 999 as well and all around them were probably calling 999. The art of surveillance is that even your own are unlikely to know you if its done right.

SNAKEDOC

I doubt very much that there were gardai there in a surveillance capacity. If they were it woukd have been at least a two ir three man team given the targets and if they have a team like that they have radios which means they could have had a muvh better response time for other units coming in. I cant believe for one second a surveillance team would not be armed and wouldn't at least make an attempt to persue and then just dissappear in the madness. Its real life not hawaii 5-0

Captain Chaos

The Black Oil wrote: »

Not everyone likes Tom Clonan, I know, but is he implying an MP7 is basically useless in these situations?

That quote in that post is pure BS. The ERU have the new HK416A5 along with the MP7 SMG.

The MP7 fires special rounds that will go through bullet proof vests up to 200 metres range.

The HK416A5 is probably the best 5.56mm assault rifle on the planet right now. It was used by the US Navy SEALs in the Bin Laden raid. So it goes up against poorly trained people with AK47s all the time.

SNAKEDOC

I'd agree there alright. Competency and sound equipment wins over spray and pray any day. Had a unit got there we'd be seeing four dead sucmbags and a battlw scene regardless of body armor. Armor has weak zones and doesnt cover the goolies. A round to the balls would put ya down fairly lively. They say a flick is worse than a kick but a bullet trumps all😜

Rebelkid

Exactly complete BS. In fact our surveillance officers compared to British counterparts are very lucky that majority have access to a sidearm, in the U.K they don't!

myshirt

SNAKEDOC wrote: »

I'd agree there alright. Competency and sound equipment wins over spray and pray any day. Had a unit got there we'd be seeing four dead sucmbags and a battlw scene regardless of body armor. Armor has weak zones and doesnt cover the goolies. A round to the balls would put ya down fairly lively. They say a flick is worse than a kick but a bullet trumps all😜

Are you actually advocating a shot to the balls policy?

Definitely something sinister there... I don't know how old you are, but ask your parents about the stab em in the arse policy and how we got on with that.

Shooting people in the balls is not a measure of a civilised tactic at all.

SNAKEDOC

Neither is four scumbags terrorising a sporting event in the hopes of murdering two men there friend had a falling out with over money. In the grand sceme of things a shot to the balls is quite subtle i think. Anyway i was mearly pointing out that although the gangsters may wear body armor the garda ERU and RSU are equiped with weapons fit to counter that i was just putting a comedic spin on it from a former popular tv show you must have missed.

Potential-Monke

I think people are playing too many games of Call of Duty or Battlefield. Every police force i've researched have a policy of shooting for the largest part of the body, ie: the torso. There is no shoot to kill or shoot to incapacitate policy. You shoot for the chest area, what happens after is a consequence. They were wearing body armor, so i'd imagine should a situation have arisen, if "usual" attempts by armed police don't work, i'd imagine the army may be called in, specifically a sniper.

And for anyone who may go the route of "shoot them in the leg/arm/gun", i ask if ye have every fired a gun in your life? It's not something that you can just pick up and be good at. It needs practice, you need to control breathing, you need to take sway and weather into account, distance, etc. Every gun will respond slightly differently to being used, scoped weapons (like the PDF Steyer) can be off because of a simple tap against something solid, pistols kick differently. You also need to take into account what is behind the person you're shooting at, as a stray bullet could end up hitting a civilian. Yes, the ERU/RSU get trained, but it's different being on a range, or in firearms training sims, than it is in a live fire, life threatening situation. You cannot plan for feelings, emotions, etc.

SNAKEDOC

Given that most shootings these days are over very quickly i think calling the army snipers in would be a bit of a stretch. Given that a request has to go theough the chain of command from commisioner to taoiseach and to minister for defence and to the army as per the aid to the civil power legislation currently in place. As for modern police forces not shooting to wound or incapacitate i think your research steered you wrong. Abbylara forget the year anyway the ERU shot john carthy four times three times non fatally and the fourth round killed him all rounds were delivered by two or three dufferent officers. Shoot to wound in effect. America dallas i think. Seat sniper shot a pistol out of a suspects hand allowing for his arrest by other officers. As for aiming for legs balls arms etc if faced with a suspect who has body armor and has taken rounds to his torso is it not prudent for any officer then to change focus to somewhere where his rounds will be more effective ie legs etc. As for weapons handleing and training i do have firearms training but far below that of the ERU or RSU who i am sure are fully aware of the laws of external ballistics, are you? As for it being different on the range yes im sure it is but why would any police force train and employ swat or eru style units if they were not effective and competent when the bullets started flying. It is the constant training that allows said units to do what they do and saying they are not able to do what i have given examples of is a bit silly. But this is just my opinion

It's clear that people commenting here have never received firearms training or spoken to someone who has. Stick to the PlayStation.

easygoing1982

foreign wrote: »

It's clear that people commenting here have never received firearms training or spoken to someone who has. Stick to the PlayStation.

From your posts here and ESF I'm presuming your an ordinary mule?

Leo Demidov

easygoing1982 wrote: »

From your posts here and ESF I'm presuming your an ordinary mule?

Sounds like a thinly veiled attack on a poster. His rank, training or experience are hardly relevant to his post. He said what many were thinking. Besides, as an ordinary mule, he may well have firearms training.

easygoing1982

wexfjord wrote: »

Sounds like a thinly veiled attack on a poster. His rank, training or experience are hardly relevant to his post. He said what many were thinking. Besides, as an ordinary mule, he may well have firearms training.

In reply to your thinly veiled attempt to back seat mod there is absolutely no attack intended. I just stated a mere observation.

He may well have firearms training but I doubt it's within AGS therefore he has the same or less training of some of the other posters he was trying to ridicule by telling them to go back to their games console

Jimlh86

easygoing1982 wrote: »

In reply to your thinly veiled attempt to back seat mod there is absolutely no attack intended. I just stated a mere observation.

He may well have firearms training but I doubt it's within AGS therefore he has the same or less training of some of the other posters he was trying to ridicule by telling them to go back to their games console

Plenty of lads on the regular have cards

bravestar

Jesus lads... Police policies the world over, including here, is shoot to stop. That usually means centre mass.

As for body armour and calling in army snipers. .. firstly, there are garda markmen and secondly, research what the mp7 was designed for. Hint: armour piercing.

Green Peter

Twice in the chest once in the head with a .38, same again if he's still coming , 6 rounds! New strip, if your still alive, most dead policemen die from a bullet while trying to reload a .38, that's why modern day sigs are great but the .38 was a reliable friend, never fired it in anger but plenty on the range

ectoraige

easygoing1982 wrote: »

In reply to your thinly veiled attempt to back seat mod there is absolutely no attack intended. I just stated a mere observation.

He may well have firearms training but I doubt it's within AGS therefore he has the same or less training of some of the other posters he was trying to ridicule by telling them to go back to their games console

He may have better levels of comprehension though. He said they likely didn't have firearms training nor had they spoken with somebody who has. If he is a non-firearms-trained Garda, there's still a fair chance he has spoken with those who do. I wouldn't be surprised if there's some kind of 'firearms awareness' course down in Templemore where they are given an idea of what to expect when in support of/supported by armed colleagues.

Diddley Squat

easygoing1982 wrote: »

From your posts here and ESF I'm presuming your an ordinary mule?

LOL - that was a good come back

wallop !