'Hogging' of Fast Chargers

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

Open question. Will depend on the state of the EV market here.

If people aren't aware that the Bolt/ Ampera-E exists then they won't ask about it. Opel dealers may not be willing to pay the costs associated with retooling, retraining etc. It costs Leaf dealers in Ireland 150,000 To be able to sell the Leaf or so I was told.

Kia Ireland wouldn't even advertise the Soul EV.

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

The leaf is tapering from 60 % actually.

Really ? you absolutely sure ?

The 30 Kw battery charges at 40 odd Kw all the way to 75% and it's charging at 30 kw by 80%, much higher than the current leaf.

It also depends on whether someone is talking about fast charging or not, I don't think even the 24 Kw starts to taper off at 6 Kw until well beyond 60% I can check.

Sesshoumaru

BoatMad wrote: »

merely because the tapering is 1/x and you need to draw a line at a point , 100% can be an elusive figure that takes ages to reach .

Im not fussed at 75% or 85% etc

But 75% or 85% of what? No matter what figure you pick, the time taken will vary (and in some cases quite substantially) depending on the size of the battery pack and also the design limits of the pack.

davidgdlt

Deleted User wrote: »

This is the thing, a 60 Kw battery at 45 Kw would take just over an hour to charge to 80%. So will we see a new meaning for charger hogging ?

It seems to me like everybody here is assuming that 80% is the magic number everybody will want/demand their charges to finish, regardless of how new batteries will increase range.

Hoggers will be hoggers, but the average driver will not be too bothered about the % and it will be all about whether the charge can get them to wherever it is they need to go, unless they have a few more minutes to spare and there is nobody else waiting.

davidgdlt

Padraig Mor wrote: »

I don't think it need to be that severe. I think hogging will disappear if the electricity is charged to people's supplier account at their home rate, even only the cheaper night rate.

Careful with that (rather extended) line of thought, because charging for the electricity will have the side effect to encourage the "I paid for this, so I'm entitled to stay as long as I please" attitudes.

I'm not saying that will be everybody, but neither is everybody hogging with the current free of charge schema. Abuse will exist one way or the other, and education (not charging) is the key.

davidgdlt

Also, and apologies for the multiple posts, this thread is interesting and I have read all the posts, but I think there is quite a bigger problem in ICEs (and particularly taxis, for some reason) parking in the charging bays and leaving their cars unattended, as it is in EV owners hogging the chargers.

That problem would also have an easier solution if it was possible to just send a picture to some road authority and get them receive a beautiful and deserved fine by post the next day. Because education works fine with EV owners (the non-assholy type, i.e. the majority) but not so much with other folks, in my experience.

BoatMad

Having experienced two big delays at FCPs this weekend. I think this is going to be a huge problem. The capacity of the system is easily over whelmed.

In major cities the capacities need to be doubled at the very least

BoatMad

Having experienced two big debate at FCPs this weekend. I think this is going to be a huge problem. The capacity of the system is easily over whelmed.

In major cities the capacities need to be doubled at the very least


Waiting 45 minutes for the Waterford FCP !!!

There has to be a better way to do this

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

Having experienced two big debate at FCPs this weekend. I think this is going to be a huge problem. The capacity of the system is easily over whelmed.

In major cities the capacities need to be doubled at the very least


Waiting 45 minutes for the Waterford FCP !!!

There has to be a better way to do this

Have you picked up your leaf ?

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Have you picked up your leaf ?

A borrowed 30kw

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

A borrowed 30kw

What do you think ? regretting it now ?

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

What do you think ? regretting it now ?

The car is great , The huge issue is going to be the availability of FCPs. Places like Wexford have three, while waterford has one. The ESB needs to look at certain black spots and act.

But the 30 kw is awesome.

Time to get on to our local TD's ? Though probably no point because of the complexity of the location of chargers.

Minister for the environment ? Energy ? transport ? or all ?

The greatest issue is only 1 single DC fast charger per site,

steelboots

It should be mandatory over time for service stations on motorways to have one. For example the Obama Plaza and Birdhill stations don't have any and they are both pretty new stations. As you head west beyond Galway they start to get scarce.

BoatMad

steelboots wrote: »

It should be mandatory over time for service stations on motorways to have one. For example the Obama Plaza and Birdhill stations don't have any and they are both pretty new stations. As you head west beyond Galway they start to get scarce.

Indeed , but as I understand it the Ten-T grant to the ESB is now all drawn down and thats it for the moment, I suspect well see nothing more till the commercial aspects of this are tied down and even if the ESB will remain the operator.

commercially justifying a 30-40 thousand euro installation is not going to be easy

cros13

BoatMad wrote: »

Indeed , but as I understand it the Ten-T grant to the ESB is now all drawn down and thats it for the moment, I suspect well see nothing more till the commercial aspects of this are tied down and even if the ESB will remain the operator.

commercially justifying a 30-40 thousand euro installation is not going to be easy

On the other hand from the government side... spending €5 million would pay for the installation of 200 rapid chargers, doubling up every current rapid and establishing 50 new 2 charger locations. That's not much money and that's a lot of rapid chargers.

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

On the other hand from the government side... spending €5 million would pay for the installation of 200 rapid chargers, doubling up every current rapid and establishing 50 new 2 charger locations. That's not much money and that's a lot of rapid chargers.

sure , sure, but we need as a lobby to be more organised and effective

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

On the other hand from the government side... spending €5 million would pay for the installation of 200 rapid chargers, doubling up every current rapid and establishing 50 new 2 charger locations. That's not much money and that's a lot of rapid chargers.

Tell that to the people lying on trolleys in hospitals, or those forced to live on the streets due to having no accommodation. I'm just saying..............

We're lucky to have 10K off electrics as it is and free EVSE installation.

I don't know where the money will come for all this,

One really good place to start would be to raise tax on diesels especially after 2008. Put that towards charger funding but there'd be murder if people knew what it was being spent on. It would be rather difficult for the Government to justify funding charger installation.

The ESB can afford it but as a business they're already scratching their heads wondering "why did we do it lads" ? It's not a good business plan with a huge investment for practically no return, not yet anyway.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

We're lucky to have 10K off electrics as it is and free EVSE installation.

I don't know where the money will come for all this

The 2016 budget for the €5k grant program and home chargepoint is €5 million.... I didn't pull that number out of thin air. I'm saying the rapid chargers should be deployed instead of the grant if necessary. Because the grant is less of an incentive than better rapid charging infrastructure would be.

You can either:

Give the €5k grant and home chargepoint to 750 cars + admin
OR
Install 200 multistandard rapid chargers

Which sounds better?

And if we wanted to fund both we could do so without hitting widows and orphans.
I've worked in the past on Irish government programs that pissed away more money than that on management consultants.

Firblog

cros13 wrote: »

I've worked in the past on Irish government programs that pissed away more money than that on management consultants.

Is that how your CTO got his fleet of EV's?:D

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

The 2016 budget for the €5k grant program and home chargepoint is €5 million.... I didn't pull that number out of thin air. I'm saying the rapid chargers should be deployed instead of the grant if necessary. Because the grant is less of an incentive than better rapid charging infrastructure would be.

You can either:

Give the €5k grant and home chargepoint to 750 cars + admin
OR
Install 200 multistandard rapid chargers

Which sounds better?

And if we wanted to fund both we could do so without hitting widows and orphans.
I've worked in the past on Irish government programs that pissed away more money than that on management consultants.

No one would buy the Leaf or other electrics if it cost 5,000 Euro's more.

I'd rather have the car cheaper and pay as I use for the chargers.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

No one would buy the Leaf or other electrics if it cost 5,000 Euro's more.

More people would buy due to the increased infrastructure than would be put off by the price.

EVs are a low production technology at the moment. They naturally cost more.

stesaurus

cros13 wrote: »

More people would buy due to the increased infrastructure than would be put off by the price.

EVs are a low production technology at the moment. They naturally cost more.

Hmmm I dunno. If it was infrastructure that was top of my list than I'd have gotten a Leaf or even better a Zoe.
Personally I'd like to see the grants remain at least for the next 5 years or so to keep them relatively comparable in price to similar ice engines.
I'd also like to see a small standing charge levy for everyone's electricity in order to supply and maintain the infrastructure. Eventually everyone will benefit from it anyway.

BoatMad

A small standing charge on " everyone's" bill to pay for EV infrastructure ?...!!!

Yeah that'll fly