Imagine LTE Rural Broadband

9726_9726

Here are the spec sheets of the equipment that I can say for absolute certain that is being used on the Imagine sites:

The RRU is the Huawei RRU3356 3400-3600 4T4R:
www.huawei.com/ilink/enenterprise/download/HW_275860

The indoor part of the eNodeB is the BBU3910:
enterprise.huawei.com/ilink/cnenterprise/download/HW_328207
(See page 15)

The BBU claims it does Category 3/4 but no higher. This means a theoretical 75Mbps maximum per chain. The CPEs will be 2x2 and the BBU can only do Category 4, so that's 2x2. See below for further details on this.

Remember all of this is TDD too, so has to be split on a FIXED down/up ratio and your maximum throughput will have to be shared between down and up. So say you had 150Mbps, you could go 100 down and 50 up for example.


The BBU claims a maximum downstream throughput of 100Mbps and maximum upstream of 50Mbps, per RRU.

It also claims that a 4T4R RRU can be used as 2 x 2T2R RRUs, which would mean that Imagine (if they have the spectrum) will be able to use two channels on the same physical sector.


This means one of two things:

1) Imagine can use 2x20MHz channels on the site and each sector uses 2 x (2x2 MIMO), so 200Mbps down per sector.

2) Imagine can use 1x20MHz channel = 100Mbps down per sector.

People, I really think we are looking at 100Mbps per channel per sector here. Right now with the limited 3.5GHz spectrum, I'd guess there is one channel in use. So as thought before, 400 customers, 3 sectors = 133 customers/sector.

So that's 100Mbps for every 133 customers by that reckoning.

Edit: Just to add also, for the sales people to ay there is no contention on a fixed wireless network is bloody terrible.

WonkyMe

Not sure what to make of these guys. I phoned a week ago and signed up. The salesman, who seemed competent, went away to check availability and, having checked, confirmed that my mast would be live mid july 'in fact probably before then , but we say mid july to be safe'. I gave them my deposit of 100EUR.

Two days later I received an email from a 'no-reply' Imagine address which just contained a standard graphic saying "We have just checked your address and unfortunately your home is outside of our initial phase one coverage area. " and referring me to their coverage map, which clearly shows my area is already supposed to be covered.

I have replied to them, using the two email addresses that I have been able to find, asking them for an updated installation date, and confirmation that if this is not Ok that my 100EUR deposit will be refunded. To date I havent got any reply.

The whole thing seems messy and disorganised and doesnt inspire confidence..

rob808

WonkyMe wrote: »

Not sure what to make of these guys. I phoned a week ago and signed up. The salesman, who seemed competent, went away to check availability and, having checked, confirmed that my mast would be live mid july 'in fact probably before then , but we say mid july to be safe'. I gave them my deposit of 100EUR.

Two days later I received an email from a 'no-reply' Imagine address which just contained a standard graphic saying "We have just checked your address and unfortunately your home is outside of our initial phase one coverage area. " and referring me to their coverage map, which clearly shows my area is already supposed to be covered.

I have replied to them, using the two email addresses that I have been able to find, asking them for an updated installation date, and confirmation that if this is not Ok that my 100EUR deposit will be refunded. To date I havent got any reply.

The whole thing seems messy and disorganised and doesnt inspire confidence..

Imagine are good at coming after you for money if you owe them it but other way around they leave you waiting on your refund.

SCOOP 64

rob808 wrote: »

Imagine are good at coming after you for money if you owe them it but other way around they leave you waiting on your refund.

Was told it will take up to 10 working days to get refund, when i gave my card details over the phone it was out in minutes.

woody1

coffeeJohn92 wrote: »

Signged up last week for Imagine LTE. The rep was a genuine enough guy. He told me the mast would be up and running for my area at the end of July.

Just wondering is there anyone else on here that's signed up in the Ballina, Mayo area?

If so are ye connected? or what did the rep tell you about timeline to be connected?


Also is there anyway to check on the masts Imagine use? How there doing in terms of progress?

Cheers

i was on to them last week, they said 4 weeks to me, been thinking about it since then, and reading this thread on and off, wasnt sure , til my existing crappy 1mb connection started giving hassle yesterday.. be ringing tomorrow

TireeTerror

9726_9726 wrote: »

Edit: Just to add also, for the sales people to ay there is no contention on a fixed wireless network is bloody terrible.

The big problem for me is that my conversation in relation to there being no contention was not with the sales department, but was with the technical support department. I can understand that the sales guy stretch the truth, outright lie as they have a vested interest in doing so to achieve targets, its unfortunately the very standard behaviour from all of the service providers providing utilities. I have always found though, from my own personal experience with the likes of Vodafone, Sky, Eir, Talk Talk, o2, Orange, T-Mobile, Cellnet, Net1, BT, Movistar, Telefonica, that the tech support people are sick of the problems they have to contend with as a direct result of customer's expectations being unrealistic based exclusively on the lies they have been told by their companies sales teams. They have always put me straight and been very up front with the harsh reality.

How can they possible promise 30Mb as a minimum speed if the contention is so ridiculously high? This is a very clear piece of evidence that explains why they have changed their terminology to including "30Mb at point of install", which of course will be during the daytime when most people are away working or at school and the service will not be massively being used. I am not seeing one piece of evidence that makes me have even the slightest bit of faith that they are going to be any better than the shower of sh1te we have had before.

They have us over a barrel and they know it.

Waffleon

Ok. I have had this service only since Friday. I can only rate it as excellent. Currently I am getting speeds in the region of 40-60Meg. I previously had a 12M maximum which was quite stable but it cost exactly the same as imagine. To everyone else here posting problems with the service I'm quite sure all your issues plague other isp's also. W.R.T. speeds, as long as it's quick enough to do what I want...ie watch Netflix, YouTube, and download the odd personal files , then if it's 10M or 80M, it's fine by me. I do understand all your concerns but is there any serious alternative at the moment...? Sure, you could wait for the government to step up to the plate, but frankly I have been wIting for decent broadband from them for 10 years. Thanks for a great service Imagine...

leex

Has anybody with a Static IP successfully bridged their supplied router and has the static IP still been assigned as expected?

Wing126

Just been off the phone with them, was told I'd be covered by their site at Mount Oriel and that I would be live by the end of August... Sales guy also said that speeds would never drop below 30mb. From what I've seen in this thread though that's definitely untrue. Still speeds are better than my eircom and by the looks of it I'm not gonna get fibre with eircom by 2020, so I'm Gonna call up and reserve my installation. Hopefully I've no issues...

Anybody who has it, what way does the phone work? Do they take your existing landline number, do they give you a new mobile number or what happens?

leex

Wing126 wrote: »

Just been off the phone with them, was told I'd be covered by their site at Mount Oriel and that I would be live by the end of August... Sales guy also said that speeds would never drop below 30mb. From what I've seen in this thread though that's definitely untrue. Still speeds are better than my eircom and by the looks of it I'm not gonna get fibre with eircom by 2020, so I'm Gonna call up and reserve my installation. Hopefully I've no issues...

Anybody who has it, what way does the phone work? Do they take your existing landline number, do they give you a new mobile number or what happens?

They supply you with a phone number and you can port your own number also (optional). I am in the process of porting my number and have been told this will trigger the disabling of my Eircom line and line rental etc.

Wing126

leex wrote: »

They supply you with a phone number and you can port your own number also (optional). I am in the process of porting my number and have been told this will trigger the disabling of my Eircom line and line rental etc.

So I can keep my landline number?

ED E

Wing126 wrote: »

So I can keep my landline number?

Yes.

Order Imagine
Have it installed + Be issued with a new number by them
Submit Port Request to Imagine
Ensure you receive final bill from Eir

Important bit is dont cancel your Eir services until after the port has been processed or you may end up with a headache keeping the number.

Scruff

ED E wrote: »

Yes.

Order Imagine
Have it installed + Be issued with a new number by them
Submit Port Request to Imagine
Ensure you receive final bill from Eir

Important bit is dont cancel your Eir services until after the port has been processed or you may end up with a headache keeping the number.

Also i was told that you will have to plug your phone into the provided router for the VOIP to work. Something to bear in mind when getting it installed.
I dont use the phone myself, would prefer a cheaper internet only package!

ED E

Scruff wrote: »

Also i was told that you will have to plug your phone into the provided router for the VOIP to work. Something to bear in mind when getting it installed.
I dont use the phone myself, would prefer a cheaper internet only package!

You can backfeed it to your phone sockets if needs be, easy to do.

KOR101

Not sure if all you guys are following the NBP thread. Imagine is not on the announced shortlist for the NBP. They will, no doubt, fight a rearguard action to get back in contention, or at least to have their customers excluded from the plan. Have to say, neither is likely to happen.

The 30 mbit promise was only chosen to prove they could meet the minimum NBP target. There must be a good chance now that they will act like other wireless companies and pile people onto the masts to recover whatever they can from their investment.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057332672&page=120

rob808

KOR101 wrote: »

Not sure if all you guys are following the NBP thread. Imagine is not on the announced shortlist for the NBP. They will, no doubt, fight a rearguard action to get back in contention, or at least to have their customers excluded from the plan. Have to say, neither is likely to happen.

The 30 mbit promise was only chosen to prove they could meet the minimum NBP target. There must be a good chance now that they will act like other wireless companies and pile people onto the masts to recover whatever they can from their investment.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057332672&page=120

yea I can see that happening they drop 400 per mast and add more.

polaris68

Is any further rollout of their service viable at this point? Assuming NBP is completed in five years the majority of their customers will have some form of actual FTTH. They'll have hardly recouped their investment by then?

The Cush

KOR101 wrote: »

There must be a good chance now that they will act like other wireless companies and pile people onto the masts to recover whatever they can from their investment.

They may only have 12 months to recover that investment, current spectrum licence expires this month next year, spectrum auction ahead.

9726_9726

The Cush wrote: »

They may only have 12 months to recover that investment, current spectrum licence expires this month next year, spectrum auction ahead.

And I can tell you right now, they are operating on WAY more than 12 months ROI on this with the CAPEX, the marketing and so on.

The Cush

9726_9726 wrote: »

And I can tell you right now, they are operating on WAY more than 12 months ROI on this with the CAPEX, the marketing and so on.

Difficult to see them lose the licence unless the big MNOs get involved.

9726_9726

The Cush wrote: »

Difficult to see them lose the licence unless the big MNOs get involved.

Selling the business customers for this, though? Ouch....

I smell regret.

Wing126

Hmm, does this mean I should cancel my installation? I'm not sure when I'll be getting any sort of real Fibre at my address but I was told by an Eir rep that it would not be any time this year.

ED E

9726_9726 wrote: »

I smell regret.

I'm assuming its fiscally impractical to swap out for WiMax? Seems a lot of other ISPs might have dual stacked with it and they're retaining that spectrum for now AFAIK?

In any case it wouldnt be competitive with the NBP winner(s).

KOR101

Wing126 wrote: »

Hmm, does this mean I should cancel my installation? I'm not sure when I'll be getting any sort of real Fibre at my address but I was told by an Eir rep that it would not be any time this year.

You'll be waiting quite a while for the NBP fibre. Even contract signing is 12 months away.

I have to say, if I could get this in Kerry right now, I might still be tempted, as a short term fix. But, long-term, Imagine, and all the wireless providers, only have a future as resellers of the fibre from the NBP winners.

Gonzo

great news that Imagine are not getting the contract, can't see them expanding their roll-out now as fast as they were. They were trying to keep their service above 30meg to look good for the NBP, now that they have lost, they will probably just cram customers onto those masts now.

tsue921i8wljb3

ED E wrote: »

I'm assuming its fiscally impractical to swap out for WiMax? Seems a lot of other ISPs might have dual stacked with it and they're retaining that spectrum for now AFAIK?

In any case it wouldnt be competitive with the NBP winner(s).

As far as I know thet were (are) running their legacy WiMax network in the 3.6Ghz band. They are currently decommissioning WiMax sites to install the new product. What other licennced spectrum do they hold?

editorsean

I'm sure the wireless providers will be around for many years to come. Let's say the cheapest FTTH package will be €55/month (like Vodafone's current entry FTTH product), there will be people willing to spend €30 or €40 per month on a fixed wireless product just to save €15 to €25 per month, such as those who just use the web for e-mail, Facebook, etc. and don't care about being able to stream Full HD video at peak time.

On the other hand, it'll be interesting to see how much longer Imagine can charge €60/month if it gets its licence extended...

tsue921i8wljb3

editorsean wrote: »

I'm sure the wireless providers will be around for many years to come. Let's say the cheapest FTTH package will be €55/month (like Vodafone's current entry FTTH product), there will be people willing to spend €30 or €40 per month on a fixed wireless product just to save €15 to €25 per month, such as those who just use the web for e-mail, Facebook, etc. and don't care about being able to stream Full HD video at peak time.

On the other hand, it'll be interesting to see how much longer Imagine can charge €60/month if it gets its licence extended...

I can see these lighter users being catered for by the MNOs, whose networks should be quieter as FTTH takes hold. I'm not sure if there is much of a future for the smaller WISPs.

rob808

editorsean wrote: »

I'm sure the wireless providers will be around for many years to come. Let's say the cheapest FTTH package will be €55/month (like Vodafone's current entry FTTH product), there will be people willing to spend €30 or €40 per month on a fixed wireless product just to save €15 to €25 per month, such as those who just use the web for e-mail, Facebook, etc. and don't care about being able to stream Full HD video at peak time.

On the other hand, it'll be interesting to see how much longer Imagine can charge €60/month if it gets its licence extended...

The cheapest of Eir FTTH product 150 download and 30 upload beats the hell out of imagine LTE.

ED E

Reyansh Little Bandage wrote: »

As far as I know thet were (are) running their legacy WiMax network in the 3.6Ghz band. They are currently decommissioning WiMax sites to install the new product. What other licennced spectrum do they hold?

Seems like they have some 10.5G space too.

Kristopherus

Gonzo wrote: »

great news that Imagine are not getting the contract, can't see them expanding their roll-out now as fast as they were. They were trying to keep their service above 30meg to look good for the NBP, now that they have lost, they will probably just cram customers onto those masts now.

Why is it great news? I'm sure a lot of people would be very happy to get 50+ mbps from Imagine, while waiting for the arrival of the NBP, which is at least 3 yrs down the road for most people. They can then sign up with whoever offers them over 100 mbps.

tsue921i8wljb3

ED E wrote: »

Seems like they have some 10.5G space too.

Yeah I just checked ComReg. Six 10.5Ghz licences nationwide. You'd have to suspect if they lose their 3.6 lots they would be doomed.

Kristopherus

rob808 wrote: »

The cheapest of Eir FTTH product 150 download and 30 upload beats the hell out of imagine LTE.

When will that be available to those thousands of rural customers who can now barely get 1-3mbps at present. Not next year, or the year after, or the year after..........

rob808

Kristopherus wrote: »

When will that be available to those thousands of rural customers who can now barely get 1-3mbps at present. Not next year, or the year after, or the year after..........

imagine good for people who can't get fast broadband the only thing I don't like about it is imagine has a close network unlike the NBP open network.

KOR101

Kristopherus wrote: »

Why is it great news? I'm sure a lot of people would be very happy to get 50+ mbps from Imagine, while waiting for the arrival of the NBP, which is at least 3 yrs down the road for most people. They can then sign up with whoever offers them over 100 mbps.

The point is that if Imagine has no NBP future, they will just milk their existing infrastructure and the 30 mbit guarantee will go out the window.

9726_9726

Reyansh Little Bandage wrote: »

As far as I know thet were (are) running their legacy WiMax network in the 3.6Ghz band. They are currently decommissioning WiMax sites to install the new product. What other licennced spectrum do they hold?

Yeah, honestly, not sure about dual stacking them. I doubt it really. You wouldn't be able to use GPS sync between them. Different timing.

Most of their spectrum is FDD at the moment. Are they being naughty and installing TDD in that?!

tsue921i8wljb3

9726_9726 wrote: »

Yeah, honestly, not sure about dual stacking them. I doubt it really. You wouldn't be able to use GPS sync between them. Different timing.

Most of their spectrum is FDD at the moment. Are they being naughty and installing TDD in that?!

I'm not sure if their current licences explicitly prohibit TDD but ComReg's plan for the future of the 3.6 band is a TDD configuration.

9726_9726

ED E wrote: »

Seems like they have some 10.5G space too.

There is no LTE bastardisation available in 10.5GHz. They use old Alvarion Walkair in 10.5GHz.

You'd recognise the square panel CPEs on businesses with one beveled corner and an N-connector and LMR400 coax coming out at 45 degrees. If you were a total wireless nerd like me, that is!

Used for corporate leased-line replacement at 2M - 10M type speeds, to a total of 34Mbps in the sector.

Typical Imagine 10.5GHz sites (usually ESBT or Towercom towers) would be:

- one or two Ceragon IP10 microwave backhauls
- Extreme networks switch
- Alvarion Walkair kit
- Flatpack rectifier
- Few telco batteries
- full-height 42U cab

All very very standard stuff (with variations on the last mile) similar to what would be used by Airspeed, Digiweb/ex Smart, Nova, UPC, Irish Telecom, Exigent, Host Ireland, Magnet.

ItHurtsWhenIP

Kristopherus wrote: »

When will that be available to those thousands of rural customers who can now barely get 1-3mbps at present. Not next year, or the year after, or the year after..........

Perhaps you missed this?

ED E

Yeah, assumed that was a non runner.


Lazy with the google fu at this time of night:

Accordingly, ComReg is of the view that future interest in the 2.6 GHz band is most likely to be in relation to the provision of WBB services and that the band should be released, on a service and technology neutral basis, in a manner that enables the provision of WBB services.

If thats their ethos they shouldnt really be picky whether licence holders deploy FDD or TDD as long as required guard zones are left.


What I don't get is Imagine pushing for this on such a huge gamble. They must know more than we do or its hard to think they've have received the funding to push ahead.

31st Dec 14 Source: CRO
€31.6 million turnover
-€10.3 million profit
153 employees
31st Dec 13 Source: CRO
€38.9 million turnover
-€8.9 million profit
181 employees

Hardly have the cash for a deployment so they had to raise capital externally.

Kristopherus

KOR101 wrote: »

The point is that if Imagine has no NBP future, they will just milk their existing infrastructure and the 30 mbit guarantee will go out the window.

Where did you get that idea? Surely Imagine would have to compete to be successful? They cannot just slink into a corner and disappear over time. By the time NBP come to the majority of rural people, they could have 2/3/5 years of Imagines service, which would bring them from the measly 1-3-5 mbps they currently have to 50+ mbps.

Ruffty^

Here is my speed tests. I'll try to do more during peak (1700-2200), but as you can see, bandwidth clearly suffers around peak. Strange with "no contention" according to Imagine.
Anyway, speeds obviously vary quite a bit, but still ahead of my only alternative.
(12mb line which would drop to ~8-6 during peak)

http://www.speedtest.net/results.php?sh=b99aaca888aa416355a3f2fbb0cc7863&ria=0

9726_9726

ED E wrote: »

Yeah, assumed that was a non runner.


Lazy with the google fu at this time of night:

If thats their ethos they shouldnt really be picky whether licence holders deploy FDD or TDD as long as required guard zones are left.


What I don't get is Imagine pushing for this on such a huge gamble. They must know more than we do or its hard to think they've have received the funding to push ahead.

Hardly have the cash for a deployment so they had to raise capital externally.

The gamble was extraordinary. Especially with the suing of Motorola over wimax not delivering. That's coming up this year isn't it? If they lose that they will be in very poor shape.

tsue921i8wljb3

ED E wrote: »

Yeah, assumed that was a non runner.


Lazy with the google fu at this time of night:

If thats their ethos they shouldnt really be picky whether licence holders deploy FDD or TDD as long as required guard zones are left.


What I don't get is Imagine pushing for this on such a huge gamble. They must know more than we do or its hard to think they've have received the funding to push ahead.

Hardly have the cash for a deployment so they had to raise capital externally.

€50M from a French international infrastructure fund.

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/news/imagine-to-start-rollout-of-200m-fast-broadband-system-in-2016-34297484.html

Wing126

Ruffty^ wrote: »

Here is my speed tests. I'll try to do more during peak (1700-2200), but as you can see, bandwidth clearly suffers around peak. Strange with "no contention" according to Imagine.
Anyway, speeds obviously vary quite a bit, but still ahead of my only alternative.
(12mb line which would drop to ~8-6 during peak)

http://www.speedtest.net/results.php?sh=b99aaca888aa416355a3f2fbb0cc7863&ria=0

I don't know if it means much, but when I was on the phone to Imagine earlier today, the rep I was speaking to said if it consistently drops below 30 without going over your 20GB limit (he said speeds would drop to about 2mb if you go over the limit), then you should contact them straight away.

For me it's still a good alternative to eir (3mb max) until they get fibre out my way. I will definitely be monitoring it and wrecking Imagine's heads if I get results like this :pac:

robert muldoon

Wing126 wrote: »

I don't know if it means much, but when I was on the phone to Imagine earlier today, the rep I was speaking to said if it consistently drops below 30 without going over your 20GB limit (he said speeds would drop to about 2mb if you go over the limit), then you should contact them straight away.

For me it's still a good alternative to eir (3mb max) until they get fibre out my way. I will definitely be monitoring it and wrecking Imagine's heads if I get results like this :pac:

I live in Calverstown co Kildare and signs appeared overnight telling us their wireless fibre broadband was in the area , 30 mbs minimum ! Mana from heaven
I have regional bb at the moment, struggling to get ANY reception after 9pm
Signed up yesterday , will be going live end of August

Chef-1st

Ruffty^ wrote: »

Here is my speed tests. I'll try to do more during peak (1700-2200), but as you can see, bandwidth clearly suffers around peak. Strange with "no contention" according to Imagine.
Anyway, speeds obviously vary quite a bit, but still ahead of my only alternative.
(12mb line which would drop to ~8-6 during peak)

http://www.speedtest.net/results.php?sh=b99aaca888aa416355a3f2fbb0cc7863&ria=0

I see I'm not the only one getting under 30M in the evenings.
Keep up the speed tests. It's the only way to have anything solid when they come up with excuses.

Magic ]=)

Just on the note of early sing up prior to mast activation. Don't do it if you live farther from the mast. That's my experience.

I'm 23km from Abbeknockmoy mast in Co.Galway and was told month ago that I'll be covered no problem once the mast will go live. Consultant was very eager to get a 100e of me and sign me up. I decided to wait and didn't pay. It turned out to be a good decision because I've got a call from Imagine few days after mast activation and they told me that I'm not covered any more. They also said that techs are back on the road again testing coverage and will get back to me once the tests are done.

As for their license expiring in 12 months. Voda have bumped their subscriptions from 35e to 40e/month and I'm getting only 3mb speeds. So I'd be delighted having speeds above 30mb even for 12months.

coffeeJohn92

I've signed up for Imagine broadband, but reading this thread the past couple of weeks has made me wonder would it be worth it. I'm currently on a 6-7mb/s line from Eir.
If I could get speeds of 30mb/s plus from Imagine that would be amazing and well worth the money considering there's no other option atm, but would I get it and how long will it stay good?

There's a cabinet due to go live in September/October, about 1100-1200m from my house. Ireland Offline site says I would get 18mb/s at that range but have no idea how accurate that is.

Should I stick with what I've got till then or go with Imagine till the FTTH rollout happens in my area?

If anyone could help me on this please it would be great.

Cheers

rob808

coffeeJohn92 wrote: »

I've signed up for Imagine broadband, but reading this thread the past couple of weeks has made me wonder would it be worth it. I'm currently on a 6-7mb/s line from Eir.
If I could get speeds of 30mb/s plus from Imagine that would be amazing and well worth the money considering there's no other option atm, but would I get it and how long will it stay good?

There's a cabinet due to go live in September/October, about 1100-1200m from my house. Ireland Offline site says I would get 18mb/s at that range but have no idea how accurate that is.

Should I stick with what I've got till then or go with Imagine till the FTTH rollout happens in my area?

If anyone could help me on this please it would be great.

Cheers

well 18mb is a good speed I would say wait till your cabinet go live and see what speed you get then decide whether to go with LTE.