News on the delay of the 30 kWh MY2016 Leaf?

feichin

feichin wrote: »

I'm doing 100km to work (& 100km back) and using 64 > 67 % of the 30 Kwh charge each way, mostly 80 >100 kph driving. I've no real idea how good or bad this is.
Again, I'm not sure if I'm doing everything right yet but the battery seems to be taking longer to recharge than I expected 35% > 100% seems to be taking 4 hrs with a 6.6 charger.
Maybe some of the "old heads" around here could offer an opinion?

Do you have the 32 amp home charge point ? or are you charging at 6.6kw at the street charge points ?

I'd use roughly 50-55% over 65 kms in the 24 Kwh around 100 kph all the way. +- a few % depending on wind and rain.

After 110-120 kms I'd want to be actually charging. In summer I'd get probably 130 kms but would want to be charging at this stage.

It should take 4.5 hrs from an 0-100% charge, 6-6.1 Kw per hour goes into the battery and there are 28 Kwh usable. So around 4.5 hrs.

Thing is the last 4 or 5 % can take a long time because of the way the charger has to limit power as the approaches full charge, it can't charge at full power all the way to 100%.

Then the battery computer has to balance the cells, this means it has to make sure all the cells are equally charged because the battery is made up of several battery cells not all are 100% to the same specifications as the other so there'll be slight differences in voltage and if unmonitored and uncontrolled this can kill cells anyway this is usually done at the last part of the charge which can take longer sometimes than others.

So 35-100% should take 3.5 hrs but the last few % will take longer but not so sure how long in the 30 Kwh.

TBH if the last few % probably make no difference to you and you might find 95% comes a lot faster. Just be lucky you chose the 6.6 Kw charger and not the 3.3 !

I have used the standard street charge points a lot lately and yesterday I noticed I got from 60-93% in about 1 hr, this was in the 24 Kwh but it's better charging at standard street charge points and going about your business and coming back to a charged car than doing your business in Town and having to find and wait at a fast charger.

As batteries triple in usable capacity over the next 2 years it will take a lot longer to charge so you'll think "oh I've only got 50% charge" but that 50% would take you the same distance as the 30 Kwh 100% charged !

feichin

I have a standard ESB Issue home charger - 16 amp? I think.
I'm charging at a "slow" charger during the day with a 6.6 charger.
I take your point about the last few Kw's taking longer.
Basically, I think what you are saying is that I should probably unplug the car after about 2 hrs as I should be up between 80 & 90% at that stage?

No you can leave it plugged in all the time if you want but it would be a bit unfair if someone else needs the charge point and you only need about 2 hrs but are holding it up for 8-9 hrs during the day.

They're not personal charge points, they're meant for topping up and moving on, but those with 3.3 Kw chargers could possibly be hogging charge points all day especially with the 30 kwh battery. One reason I believe public charging shouldn't be free. But that's another heated topic for another thread.

The 6.6 Kw charger should be standard because obviously it charges faster, reduces dependency on fast chargers, reduces and sometimes eliminates time spent at fast chargers and frees up fast chargers. You can get a decent charge in 2 hrs with the 6.6 Kw charger. Nissan Ireland mainly import the 3.3 Kw charger to keep the list price as cheap as possible leaving many people with no choice and also the advice from many Leaf Sales people is that because the ESB will only install the 16 amp home charge point you can't use the 6.6 anyway and others say that why pay for it when you can use the fast chargers. Anyway I think it's poor advice because of the usefulness of charging at standard street points and for the points mentioned above.

You can always get the 32 amp home charge point installed, if it was installed by the ESB chances are it's the 16 amp, look at the Rcbo in the consumer unit, basically the trip switch and it should be marked car and it will say 16 or 32 amps.

By the way 200 kms is a bitch of a commute !!!

feichin

I hear you!!!! 200km each day sounds a lot but its mostly N road driving and the traffic is not too bad. 1:15 > 1:30 each way. I hear some people do that every day in some of our cities in traffic:eek:
I'm still feeling my way with the leaf, I know there are others wanting to use the charge points so I don't want to be "hogging" them. I thought / hoped 2.5 hrs would give me a full charge, it seems I was being a bit optimistic, but if I'm getting somewhere over 80% I think it should be enough to get me home

Rafal

feichin wrote: »

I'm doing 100km to work (& 100km back) and using 64 > 67 % of the 30 Kwh charge each way, mostly 80 >100 kph driving. I've no real idea how good or bad this is.
Again, I'm not sure if I'm doing everything right yet but the battery seems to be taking longer to recharge than I expected 35% > 100% seems to be taking 4 hrs with a 6.6 charger.
Maybe some of the "old heads" around here could offer an opinion?

This is based on a few uses of LeafSpyPro on my 30 kWh Leaf, but not from notes, mostly memory so apologies for lack of precision.

Below 50% you will charge at 6.6 kW on a 32A post, and at just over 3 kW on a 16A. Above 50 but below 80% you are getting 5 kW at max. Once you go over 80% the car charger will slow down below 3 kW. Over 90% you will be getting about 1 kW, and around 97% it drops to about 0.5 kW. As a result, the final 2-3% can take well in excess of 40 minutes, but then it will begin the battery balancing, which can add another 1-2 hours.

In my experiece, 10-80 takes 2 hours 40 mins on a 32A post (street or home). 70-90 takes 1 hour. 90-100 takes 2+ hours. With a 16A standard issue ESB chargepoint the <80 times will be about twice as long.

In-car charger estimation display says that 50-100 should take 5.5 hours on 32A, 9.5 hours on 16A, and 12 hours on the granny cable.

What does it all mean? When on the go, forget about trying to charge to 100. While overnighting, let it do it. It also means that all of these times are significantly different from the 24 kWh cars, which were more linear with a smaller taper, based on what people have been reporting on the forums.

BoatMad

By the way 200 kms is a bitch of a commute !!!

half the country has 100Km each way commutes , lots of people doing long drives, its only when you rewash the outskirts of Dublin that the madness sets in.

Felchin, your numbers sound about right for a 16A EVSE. remember this only uses half the available charger power if you have a 6Kw charger on board

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

Felchin, your numbers sound about right for a 16A EVSE. remember this only uses half the available charger power if you have a 6Kw charger on board

No , I think his observations are based on plugging into a standard street charge point while at work ? which should allow him all 6.6 kw.

Rafal

Rafal wrote: »

Below 50% you will charge at 6.6 kW on a 32A post, and at just over 3 kW on a 16A. Above 50 but below 80% you are getting 5 kW at max. Once you go over 80% the car charger will slow down below 3 kW. Over 90% you will be getting about 1 kW, and around 97% it drops to about 0.5 kW. As a result, the final 2-3% can take well in excess of 40 minutes, but then it will begin the battery balancing, which can add another 1-2 hours.

I don't think the above is correct, however it could very well be ? naturally charge times will take longer with the 30 Kwh (28 usable) but on the 24 Kwh at least on the fast charger you're getting 6-8 kw at 80% can't actually remember at 90%.

I was plugged into Athy SCP the other day (24 kwh battery) and got from 60% - 93% in just about an hour give or take a few mins. This would suggest charging at 6 Kw past 90%.

Some actual data would be helpful.

BoatMad

Given the 6Kw is around about 1/3 C, thats quite conservative charge rates and their would on the face on it, not be any need to switch from CC to CV charging until the upper " knee" was quite close.

Rafal

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think the above is correct, however it could very well be ? naturally charge times will take longer with the 30 Kwh (28 usable) but on the 24 Kwh at least on the fast charger you're getting 6-8 kw at 80% can't actually remember at 90%.

I was plugged into Athy SCP the other day (24 kwh battery) and got from 60% - 93% in just about an hour give or take a few mins. This would suggest charging at 6 Kw past 90%.

Some actual data would be helpful.

The data came from LeafSpyPro—I could have remembered it incorrectly, but I distinctly remember being surprised that it was drawing < 5kW so early.

When I have some time, I will set-up my iPhone to take a continuous read of the 32A charge session below and above 50% capacity and I will share.

feichin

Deleted User wrote: »

No , I think his observations are based on plugging into a standard street charge point while at work ? which should allow him all 6.6 kw.

Yes, I was more questioning the street charging rather than the home charger, which I expected to be slower.
However from the information above it seems clear that the street chargers are quite fast up to 50 -60% and then start to slow down.
I'm learning as I go, today I took the car off the charger at 3 hrs, it had gone from 30 > 97%. so the previous day's last hour wasn't really much benefit, and, as was pointed out could have been blocking someone who needed a charge.
Tomorrow I intend to see what charge I have after 2 hrs.
As was suggested, a full charge at night and enough to get me home during the day is probably the way forward.
Thanks for all the replies.:)

feichin

feichin wrote: »

Yes, I was more questioning the street charging rather than the home charger, which I expected to be slower.
However from the information above it seems clear that the street chargers are quite fast up to 50 -60% and then start to slow down.
I'm learning as I go, today I took the car off the charger at 3 hrs, it had gone from 30 > 97%. so the previous day's last hour wasn't really much benefit, and, as was pointed out could have been blocking someone who needed a charge.
Tomorrow I intend to see what charge I have after 2 hrs.
As was suggested, a full charge at night and enough to get me home during the day is probably the way forward.
Thanks for all the replies.:)

Ok so at 30% you'd have roughly 8.5 Kwh remaining out of 28 Kwh, the charger will dump about 6 - 6.1 Kw back into the battery if I remember correctly.

So say 6 Kw x 3 hrs is 18 Kwh that would bring you up to 26.4 Kwh or roughly 94% .

Seems perfectly fast to me with a larger battery.

In mine 22 kwh usable max, 30% would be around 6.6 Kwh left and 2.5 hrs would give me around 15 Kwh giving me a full charge. 2 hrs would take me to 90% from 30%.

The other day I got from 60% to 93 % in one hour, gotta love the 6.6 Kw charger. I don't need to visit fast chargers so much.

I hope the ESB don't give up on installing AC points which for now unfortunately, they have.

BoatMad

feichin wrote: »

Yes, I was more questioning the street charging rather than the home charger, which I expected to be slower.
However from the information above it seems clear that the street chargers are quite fast up to 50 -60% and then start to slow down.
I'm learning as I go, today I took the car off the charger at 3 hrs, it had gone from 30 > 97%. so the previous day's last hour wasn't really much benefit, and, as was pointed out could have been blocking someone who needed a charge.
Tomorrow I intend to see what charge I have after 2 hrs.
As was suggested, a full charge at night and enough to get me home during the day is probably the way forward.
Thanks for all the replies.:)

The street charger is just a "potentially " higher power plug point , but otherwise is the same as your EVSE at home. The car charging regime is a function of the on-board charger not the pillar, once the pillar is able to supply " at least " enough as the max on board charger is capable of drawing.

A 6Kw Leaf charging on a 32A EVSE at home is exactly the same as a 6kw leaf charging on a SCP at the roadside

macnab

OP, are you charging at a charger fitted by your employer or are you using a public on street charger?
I have use of a charger in my workplace car park which is only rated for 16Amps (3.6kw) so it's slow compared to on street chargers.
Your home charger, if fitted by the ESB, is most likely a 16Amps unit also.
I normally charge to 80% at home and charge to 100% at my work charger. It reduces my home ESB use by about 4.5kw per charge.
I presume you are aware there is a button on the dash that limits the charge to 80%

BoatMad

macnab wrote: »

.
I presume you are aware there is a button on the dash that limits the charge to 80%

gone from Gen 2

BoatMad

OP, are you charging at a charger fitted by your employer or are you using a public on street charger?
I have use of a charger in my workplace car park which is only rated for 16Amps (3.6kw) so it's slow compared to on street chargers.

just again to avoid confusion , if you have a Leaf, then all 230VAC charging whether at home, work, on the street or in the space station , is controlled by the power of the on board charger and has nothing to do with the charging pillar.

Its only where the mains supply, that is available is less then the capacity of the cars on board charger , will you see a reduction in charging due to restriction of the mains supply.

with the 3KW leaf for example , the street chargers are no faster then at home

macnab

BoatMad wrote: »

gone from Gen 2

Ah no....I love that button!!

BoatMad

I love that button

its the electronic equivalent of a baby soother , Gen2 owners have weaned onto solid food

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

gone from Gen 2

Gen 1.5 you mean ? aka the facelift or any Leaf built after July 2013 .

No it's still there on mine. They removed it in the U.S because the EPA were taking the mick and basing the range rating while charged to 80% so Nissan removed that function there.

Rafal

Deleted User wrote: »

Gen 1.5 you mean ? aka the facelift or any Leaf built after July 2013 .

No it's still there on mine. They removed it in the U.S because the EPA were taking the mick and basing the range rating while charged to 80% so Nissan removed that function there.

It's gone from MY2016 in Ireland and UK, too.

Rafal

Rafal wrote: »

It's gone from MY2016 in Ireland and UK, too.

That's news to me. Oh well.