Can a landlord refuse to rent to me?

forzacalcio

The attitude of the OP absolutely stinks. People trying to help you fella, no need to act like an asshat!

com1

Did you actually talk to the landlord? Your OP seems to suggest you did not.

rubberdiddies

starling wrote: »

I know he's a tax dodging scumbag. Like I said I was prepared to overlook that and take a chance because I need somewhere to live.

Is he though? Just because he insists on cash doesn't mean he's tax dodging. We don't know everyones situation.

In terms of what a landlord is and isnt allowed to do though....landlords aren't allowed to refuse based on rent supplement status, but are they not allowed any more to seek 'professionals only'?

Surely a landlord has the right to decide who rents his/her property?

Does this mean then that they have to accept the first person that comes to them offering the exact rent amount? What grounds can a landlord refuse on then?
If 2 people offer to rent, one is on Social Welfare and the other a 'working professional', does the LL have to accept the person on SW for fear of getting in trouble if he doesn't? Seems a bit of a grey area.
*I'm genuinely curious by the way!

starling

esforum wrote: »

Too be honest that really annoys me. You are obtaining a payment that is derived from tax.

Including my taxes. I wasn't always disabled. Just because I'm on disability allowance now, doesn't mean you and the rest of the "legitimate workers" are better than me. This just happened to me one day and in the blink of an eye my job, my flat, my independence were all gone - it could happen to anyone, so please don't be so judgemental.

esforum wrote: »

You are happy for people to avoid paying tax once it suits you but once it stops suiting you, lets get the law involved.

I'm not happy about it at all. If I were choosing between the professional landlord who pays tax and keeps everything legal, and the dodgy scumbag who's pulling in thousands every month and paying no tax obviously I'd choose the former. I'm not. I'm choosing between having a bed to sleep in and a kitchen to cook in, and sleeping in a county council-funded b&b where they turf me out every morning and don't let me back in until evening. When you're making that choice, then you can judge me.

Far from seeking advice on how I can "get the law involved," I have been trying to find out whether the law is even on my side at all. Other posters upthread have urged me to report this landlord, and I've explained several times that I've no interest in doing so. So I've no idea why you're having a go at me.

starling

rubberdiddies wrote: »

Is he though? Just because he insists on cash doesn't mean he's tax dodging. We don't know everyones situation.

In terms of what a landlord is and isnt allowed to do though....landlords aren't allowed to refuse based on rent supplement status, but are they not allowed any more to seek 'professionals only'?

Surely a landlord has the right to decide who rents his/her property?

Does this mean then that they have to accept the first person that comes to them offering the exact rent amount? What grounds can a landlord refuse on then?
If 2 people offer to rent, one is on Social Welfare and the other a 'working professional', does the LL have to accept the person on SW for fear of getting in trouble if he doesn't? Seems a bit of a grey area.
*I'm genuinely curious by the way!

I was curious too....still am....;)

starling

com1 wrote: »

Did you actually talk to the landlord? Your OP seems to suggest you did not.

No I didn't, why do you ask?

Emme

starling wrote: »

I'm not happy about it at all. If I were choosing between the professional landlord who pays tax and keeps everything legal, and the dodgy scumbag who's pulling in thousands every month and paying no tax obviously I'd choose the former. I'm not. I'm choosing between having a bed to sleep in and a kitchen to cook in, and sleeping in a county council-funded b&b where they turf me out every morning and don't let me back in until evening. When you're making that choice, then you can judge me.

Have you spoken to social worker about the situation? If you're on disability I'm sure being turfed out during the day doesn't help your condition, especially in this weather.

Michael D Not Higgins

com1 wrote: »

Did you actually talk to the landlord? Your OP seems to suggest you did not.

Actually this made me consider another aspect, that the tenants are using the landlord as a scapegoat. Someone who doesn't work full time is around the house more which means higher bills for everyone and they might have decided to keep looking. Could be relevant.

starling

starling wrote: »

No I didn't, why do you ask?

I don't want to sound harsh but it is possible the housemates never contacted the LL and just decided themselves that they didn't want someone not working living there. There may have some (fairly genuine) reasons like the extra electricity or gas/oil that would be used by someone there all day or the fact that as you dont work the chances are you will always be around at weekend, always around in the evening due to not having the finances to do things or go places. So they may have just said the LL didn't want you.

This may not be the case but possibly what the other poster is thinking.

Edit: beaten to it.

If this is the case then they could have handled it much better while still refusing you. Any time I've been looking after finding a new person for a room in places I've shared I tell everyone of them including the first person to view the room that I have given someone else first refusal or something to that effect. That way I can meet all the people and chose the one I prefer and its easy to tell the other that the "first" person to view the room took it.

starling

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Actually this made me consider another aspect, that the tenants are using the landlord as a scapegoat. Someone who doesn't work full time is around the house more which means higher bills for everyone and they might have decided to keep looking. Could be relevant.

Yes, this is a possibility I had considered, I think I mentioned upthread that they too should have the right to decide whether they want someone in the house all day - but based on my dealings with them and other factors I haven't mentioned, I surmised it was most likely a genuine refusal from the landlord rather than an excuse from the other housemates. It's not relevant to my specific situation since I have no intention of reporting him either way.

pc7

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Actually this made me consider another aspect, that the tenants are using the landlord as a scapegoat. Someone who doesn't work full time is around the house more which means higher bills for everyone and they might have decided to keep looking. Could be relevant.

This is exactly what I thought, also lots of landlords get paid in cash and pay tax, sometimes its better to collect the rent be it cash/cheque in person to keep an eye on the place.

starling

pc7 wrote: »

This is exactly what I thought, also lots of landlords get paid in cash and pay tax, sometimes its better to collect the rent be it cash/cheque in person to keep an eye on the place.

Just to clarify: I know for a fact that this landlord:

a) is not paying tax
b) does not want anyone to know that he is renting out this property
c) will not give his tenants contracts, leases, rent books or receipts

starling

sKeith wrote: »

Why should the landlord have to rent to you. I think its good of him to state the reason he refused you. Landlord does not want somebody who is going to be in the house permanaently. As stated, he want 'professionals', people who will leave the property for many hours most days. I think it would be wrong if you removed a landlords right to refuse renting their property to someone they did not feel was right for the property.

Yeah, why should I expect to live in a house, and pay rent out of my disability allowance, and live on €30 a week? Why don't I just live in a B&b that you and the other "legitimate workers" can pay for out of your taxes? That way I get to keep more money in my pocket, and the quality folk get to pay double, so they can look down on me twice as much! [/sarcasm]

No, but seriously though....of course a landlord should have some say in who rents his property, that's only fair. Obviously the ideal tenant is a professional mature single person who only sleeps in the place and goes home down the country every weekend, or whatever. However, a landlord who blatantly states up front that he won't be affording his tenant any of the legal protections that are their due....well, he has less of a leg to stand on, surely?

Hypothetically if this had worked out, then we would both be taking a chance. He'd be taking a chance that I wouldn't turn out to be wearing an ankle monitor, smoking and/or dealing drugs all day, and having wild parties and trashing the gaff at night. I'd be taking a chance that he wouldn't install cameras in the bathroom, or hike up the rent every month, or whatever else the landlords from the horror stories do. (I honestly don't know because I've always had very professional, reasonable landlords).

Not that I'm actually lamenting any of this, you understand, because this is the real world, where money talks. I'm just pointing out that you're being a little one-sided on this one.

esforum

OP I was very clear in stating that I wasnt having a pop at your welfare status. I stated that exact fact but you sound like you have a very internalised view of the world.

"I paid tax"

"I have a disability"

"I want a roof over my head"

"You cant judge me"

Yes you paid tax and when you did I am sure you expected it to be utilised effectively and be collected fairly. I am 100% positive that you didnt think "hey, if i pay more tax then that means someone else can avoid paying it and another person can get a slightly better deal from the tax cheat. great, sign me up to cover 2 people and prop up the black market". The nixer on the side of welfare or on normal weekly work along with the various other non tax paying trades create a taxation system that is needlessly high and unfairly burdened on compliant persons. (Without getting into how effectively that tax is being utilised which is a seperate issue again)

and you can have a roof over your head, a tax dodging landlord rarely offers their property at a vast reduction if any. You just need to look more and be realistic in price range and location. I am sure if you posted a thread on that subject people could equally help out. Wihtout knowing your location and price range, we cannot.

In regards judging, well yes actually I can, you certainly have multiple times in this thread and against a landlord you never met. I am a tax payer, I am a landlord and I am a citizen of the state so yes, I can offer my opinion in this situation however I didnt judge you, I simple pointed out the negative effect your attitude has on the greater picture. From your posts you appear to me to be educated but sadly a little arrogant and self centred. Your tone I will put down to frustration at the situation you find yourself in.

davo10

What a strange thread.

To the legal question, you cannot do anything as the LL has not refused you the option of renting, in fact you seem not to have communicated with the LL at all so you have no proof that he has broken any law.

Unless you are privy to the LLs tax return, you cannot be certain that he is not paying tax. You may have your suspicions but that is not enough to claim something is beyond doubt.

As things stand, all you know is what the girl who showed you around told you, and unless she is actually the LL, you have no grounds for discrimination.

Best to move on from this house and this thread.

athtrasna

Folks please remember the charter when posting. This thread is taking up a lot of moderator time. No more warnings. Thanks

Mod

Elemonator

I'm actually not sure with all the new laws that have been introduced. But I think they should be able to as its their property. You are probably just a normal person OP but I've seen some dodgy people renting places out, destroying them and then legging it when the rent is due.

Graces7

OP. My heart goes out to you; the stress you are under especially in this weather, is appalling. Please as someone else has suggested, talk to your social owrker, if you have one ( As far a my long experience goes, being disabled does not automatically give you a social worker. In fact in all my years in Ireland and as a disabled pensioner,. I have never met one.. Go and see the local CWO; and explain. Did you know for example that in certain cases they can raise the RA limits? Please go and see him or her and explain. You should not be forced to wander the streets all day. Praying for you which is all I can do. And which I believe in. Rest when you can. Bless you!

Fol20

starling wrote: »

Just to clarify: I know for a fact that this landlord:

a) is not paying tax
b) does not want anyone to know that he is renting out this property
c) will not give his tenants contracts, leases, rent books or receipts

Just to play devils advocate, how do you know that he is not paying taxes, all you have is assumptions but not proof.

Again it sounds like hes not paying but you dont have proof.

4ensic15

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Not giving a lease is illegal. Not giving receipts is illegal. Why would you think he'd be bound by any law if he's breaking these other laws

There is no requirement to give a written lease. There is a requirement to give a rent book.

Sleeper12

4ensic15 wrote:

There is no requirement to give a written lease. There is a requirement to give a rent book.

Simply not true. It is illegal to refuse to give a receipt for anything let alone rent.

4ensic15

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Simply not true. It is illegal to refuse to give a receipt for anything let alone rent.

The rent book operates a receipt for the rent. What is the source of your other point, that a receipt must be given for anything on demand?

Gatling

I wonder If it's the current tenant/s that doesn't want you to move in vs the landlord has refused the tenant

Eric Cartman

to be honest , thread after thread after thread I'm stunned by this. If a landlord doesn't want you then legal or not, your'e already on a bad footing, you can call up laws all you want, if somebody doesn't want you in their house, they'll find a way to make you leave.

this goes for everyone. If your landlord has a problem with your situation / pets / other half / method of payment etc… just don't live there. playing a game of legal chess to try temporarily thwart them is a bad idea.

Mrs OBumble

OP, I don't think it's even as clear cut as others do.

LL's cannot legally discriminate on the basis of being on Welfare. Or based on the big nine (age, sex, race, etc)

But they can discriminate on the basis of professional status: membership of either in the registered professions (doctor, lawyer, accountant, nurse, teacher, etc) or the equivalent roles in other industries which are not so regulated (journalist, computer programmer, actuary, etc).

As a LL, I would actively discriminate in favour of one of those over a fast-food worker or shop-assistant in a place where everyone is on a 20 hour contract, for instance: on average they're more likely to be able to afford the rent, and to be smart enough to look after the place. Of course there are exceptions either way (smart shop assistants, dumb engineers), but usually attaining a professional qualification or not is a reasonable indicator.

Mrs OBumble

OP, I don't think it's even as clear cut as others do.

LL's cannot legally discriminate on the basis of being on Welfare. Or based on the big nine (age, sex, race, etc)

But they can discriminate on the basis of professional status: membership of either in the registered professions (doctor, lawyer, accountant, nurse, teacher, etc) or the equivalent roles in other industries which are not so regulated (journalist, computer programmer, actuary, etc).

As a LL, I would actively discriminate in favour of one of those over a fast-food worker or shop-assistant in a place where everyone is on a 20 hour contract, for instance: on average they're more likely to be able to afford the rent, and to be smart enough to look after the place. Of course there are exceptions either way (smart shop assistants, dumb engineers), but usually attaining a professional qualification or not is a reasonable indicator.

jeamimus

starling wrote: »

last week I found one that seemed ideal - a house in the right area, a nice big room, the other girls in the house seemed very nice, and so on. The red flags started to pop up when the girl who was showing the room ...

This strikes me that it might be a house share situation and the mechanics for paying/pooling the rent were not fully explained to you.

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

Go and see the local CWO; and explain. Did you know for example that in certain cases they can raise the RA limits?

If you mean raise them to enable a single person afford a house share that's one thing but I cannot agree that rent allowance should be raised so that a person who isn't working can live alone while 1000s and 1000s of people working hard everyday and in receipt of no government assistance have to houseshare as they cannot afford to rent alone.

Sleeper12

4ensic15 wrote:

The rent book operates a receipt for the rent. What is the source of your other point, that a receipt must be given for anything on demand?

This is Irish law. Not just rent, retail outlets etc. Everyone is entitled to a receipt under Irish law. It is illegal under Irish law not to give a receipt when one is requested. Most countries have this law. It's there to protect the tenant, customer and the taxman.
I'm not saying that you have to have a rent book but when paying cash for rent the landlord must under Irish law give a receipt if requested.

the_syco

starling wrote: »

to imply that it's my responsibility to fix the broken system when I'm the one who's suffering from that broken system.

Actually, that's the attitude of everyone who is affected by the system, and thus the system stays broken.

starling wrote: »

Yeah, no. I'm not going to lie to a prospective landlord. What happens when he asks for a reference from my employer, or a payslip? Or when the other tenants start wondering why I haven't left the house every day for work like them?

I'm unsure wtf you are on about? I asked can you work. As in, actually work, as opposed to claiming that you work.

So, can you work? As in, actually do work? I cannot be anymore clear with that question. Even the scambridge may benefit you.

starling wrote: »

If you don't know how to answer my question

It seems you are unable to answer questions that are related to your post...

starling wrote: »

No I didn't, why do you ask?

The landlord could have turned around and said yes. The tenant then asks the other tenants, and they could have stated that because you'd be home all day, the bills would increase. Thus the tenant then responds to you, and blames the faceless landlord.

Example of bills increase would be a cold winter; you'd have the heating on during the day to keep warm, as opposed to no-one being there during the day, and the place not having to be warm.

starling wrote: »

Just to clarify: I know for a fact that this landlord:

a) is not paying tax

Unless you're his accountant, I call BS. If you are his accountant, see my first point; you can use this as a part-time job :P

starling wrote: »

I'm not. I'm choosing between having a bed to sleep in and a kitchen to cook in, and sleeping in a county council-funded b&b where they turf me out every morning and don't let me back in until evening.

If your disability is mental, check if you can avail of any help. The waiting list will be long, as any mental related help in this country tend to be a long-running f**king joke :mad: but that's for another rant.

If your disability is physical, consider finding out which charity caters for your disability, and see if they can help set you up for a more permanent room, along with some work.