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Employer Asking For Sick Note

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    #32
    TallGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,935 ✭✭✭TallGlass


    Just say she mixed up a sick cert with a perscription for some medication or something then head back to the docs and get a cert, tell the doctor what happened, you've been out since Monday sick and company looking for sick note now.

    Tell the company it was a mix up of what you thought was a sick not and instead was a medical prescription.

    In future do not lie over such trivial matters if your sick your sick, ring in and say your sick, no need to mention doctors notes unless asked. If you have a note then say you have a note.

    This can be easily contained, I'd go the doctor ASAP to get some sort of note and then explain it as a mix up to your manager/boss. Keep it simple don't dig that hole any deeper.


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    #33
    shrapnel222
    Registered Users Posts: 3,120 ✭✭✭shrapnel222


    TallGlass wrote: »
    Just say she mixed up a sick cert with a perscription for some medication or something then head back to the docs and get a cert, tell the doctor what happened, you've been out since Monday sick and company looking for sick note now.

    Tell the company it was a mix up of what you thought was a sick not and instead was a medical prescription.

    In future do not lie over such trivial matters if your sick your sick, ring in and say your sick, no need to mention doctors notes unless asked. If you have a note then say you have a note.

    This can be easily contained, I'd go the doctor ASAP to get some sort of note and then explain it as a mix up to your manager/boss. Keep it simple don't dig that hole any deeper.

    the sick note will be for today's date. not a hope the GP backdates it.

    you're just digging deeper with that prescription story. how do you get a prescription without going to the doctor?


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    #34
    mattaiuseire
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 295 ✭✭mattaiuseire


    Cheers.

    Her contract I'm trying to get her to find now. From what I remember, it's the most basic of employment contracts imaginable. She doesn't get paid any sick pay I know that much so far. I'm 99% sure it has the most basic generic terms regards sick pay.


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    #35
    Tiddlypeeps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭Tiddlypeeps


    shrapnel222 wrote: »
    the sick note will be for today's date. not a hope the GP backdates it.

    you're just digging deeper with that prescription story. how do you get a prescription without going to the doctor?

    Not true, it depends on the doctor and if they believe you or not. I've been to the doctor before after already having missed a couple of days of work (didn't think I needed a doc until it got worse). They had no problem giving me a sick cert to say I was sick from the first day of work I missed.

    The note will say it was signed today, but it will state in the note that person A was off work from x date to y date for medical reasons.

    The doc doesn't even need to know you lied to work about going to the doc on Monday. Just state you were out of work form Monday with a sore back, are feeling better now and need a cert to cover the time off and to state you are fit to return to work.


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    #36
    mattaiuseire
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 295 ✭✭mattaiuseire


    Tiddlypeeps wrote: »
    Not true, it depends on the doctor and if they believe you or not. I've been to the doctor before after already having missed a couple of days of work (didn't think I needed a doc until it got worse). They had no problem giving me a sick cert to say I was sick from the first day of work I missed.

    The note will say it was signed today, but it will state in the note that person A was off work from x date to y date for medical reasons.

    The doc doesn't even need to know you lied to work about going to the doc on Monday. Just state you were out of work form Monday with a sore back, are feeling better now and need a cert to cover the time off and to state you are fit to return to work.

    Exactly - I know there'll be no problem with the GP doing this. Still unsure about whether or not my girlfriend is required to provide it though seeing as they have covered her time off with annual leave. Just waiting for her to dig out her contract terms and I can update then.


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    #37
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,572 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Total joke if the GP backdates cert. I know doctors do this and one company I worked in stopped accepting certs from a particular doctor over this very problem.

    Don't go with the whole precription sharade as more lies won't help and may just discredit Her further to the employer.

    This backdated cert may be a way out.

    The lesson is telling lies to Your employer regarding absence is risky.


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    #38
    shrapnel222
    Registered Users Posts: 3,120 ✭✭✭shrapnel222


    Tiddlypeeps wrote: »
    Not true, it depends on the doctor and if they believe you or not. I've been to the doctor before after already having missed a couple of days of work (didn't think I needed a doc until it got worse). They had no problem giving me a sick cert to say I was sick from the first day of work I missed.

    The note will say it was signed today, but it will state in the note that person A was off work from x date to y date for medical reasons.

    The doc doesn't even need to know you lied to work about going to the doc on Monday. Just state you were out of work form Monday with a sore back, are feeling better now and need a cert to cover the time off and to state you are fit to return to work.

    the doc will cover for the time off no problem, he will not cover specifically for that monday when she said she had been to the doctor (and will not back date it as such and say she saw him monday).
    If she had a sick note covering monday to thursday, why would she go back tuesday?

    point is moot anyway, there should be no need for a sick note if the time off is being taken off as holiday.


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    #39
    carltonleon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭carltonleon


    Tiddlypeeps wrote: »
    They cannot require the employee take sick leave as annual leave, but they can offer it to the employee. For a lot of people this would be welcomed if the company in question does not pay for sick days.

    The question is when do they want the sick note for ? The Monday or The Monday Tuesday and Wednesday.
    Perhaps there is a misunderstanding and she is been given sick leave for Monday but Annual Leave for Tuesday and Wednesday.

    My take on it would be to go back in without a Sick Cert and say that the doctor said she was fit to return to work on Tuesday. She was asked did she need a cert by the doctor for the Monday but she said that she did not need it as it was only for one day and that her understanding was that it was not requireed by her employer for this.
    It was the employer that insisted that she take the extra 2 days off so why would she have had a note for this. If she appears with a note for these 2 days then the company would know that she went to the doctor after the event because she would only have needed a cert for Monday as she turned up to work on Tuesday.
    If they then insist that she needs a cert for Monday she can go to the doctor and get one. If they then insist that she needs one for the 3 days again she can go to the doctor and explain that she hurt her back and didnt feel well enough to work on Monday but her emplyoer insisted on taking 2 extra days so she needs a cert for that. Possibly even get 2 certs, one for teh Monday and one for Tues + Weds.
    Having said that if they insist on sick certs for Tues + Weds, I would insist that they take it as sick leave and not annual leave.


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    #40
    scamalert
    Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭scamalert


    carltonleon wrote: »
    The question is when do they want the sick note for ? The Monday or The Monday Tuesday and Wednesday.
    Perhaps there is a misunderstanding and she is been given sick leave for Monday but Annual Leave for Tuesday and Wednesday.

    My take on it would be to go back in without a Sick Cert and say that the doctor said she was fit to return to work on Tuesday. She was asked did she need a cert by the doctor for the Monday but she said that she did not need it as it was only for one day and that her understanding was that it was not requireed by her employer for this.
    It was the employer that insisted that she take the extra 2 days off so why would she have had a note for this. If she appears with a note for these 2 days then the company would know that she went to the doctor after the event because she would only have needed a cert for Monday as she turned up to work on Tuesday.
    If they then insist that she needs a cert for Monday she can go to the doctor and get one. If they then insist that she needs one for the 3 days again she can go to the doctor and explain that she hurt her back and didnt feel well enough to work on Monday but her emplyoer insisted on taking 2 extra days so she needs a cert for that. Possibly even get 2 certs, one for teh Monday and one for Tues + Weds.
    Having said that if they insist on sick certs for Tues + Weds, I would insist that they take it as sick leave and not annual leave.

    trouble is as OP said she pulled one off,thus ringing in on Monday and saying im going to see GP,shows that employer isnt new to such stunts,and usually people do that in advance be it weekend ring in and tell not feeling well-usually saves employer time in finding person to cover and seems more genuine,thus would been different outcome.Even more telling things like back injury or pain then show up next day-rings a bell,thus one has at least come up with something more of natural cause or just cant make it today x reason.
    Thus now being in trouble over nothing which will cost 50e at least as waste for doing such stunt and propably another 5 hours around hospital to get checked for non existing symptoms,x-ray - since docs in such cases also cover them selves up,as hardly you'll come in to say you had pain and its gone next day and i need note for it.


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    #41
    mattaiuseire
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 295 ✭✭mattaiuseire


    carltonleon wrote: »
    The question is when do they want the sick note for ? The Monday or The Monday Tuesday and Wednesday.
    Perhaps there is a misunderstanding and she is been given sick leave for Monday but Annual Leave for Tuesday and Wednesday.

    My take on it would be to go back in without a Sick Cert and say that the doctor said she was fit to return to work on Tuesday. She was asked did she need a cert by the doctor for the Monday but she said that she did not need it as it was only for one day and that her understanding was that it was not requireed by her employer for this.
    It was the employer that insisted that she take the extra 2 days off so why would she have had a note for this. If she appears with a note for these 2 days then the company would know that she went to the doctor after the event because she would only have needed a cert for Monday as she turned up to work on Tuesday.
    If they then insist that she needs a cert for Monday she can go to the doctor and get one. If they then insist that she needs one for the 3 days again she can go to the doctor and explain that she hurt her back and didnt feel well enough to work on Monday but her emplyoer insisted on taking 2 extra days so she needs a cert for that. Possibly even get 2 certs, one for teh Monday and one for Tues + Weds.
    Having said that if they insist on sick certs for Tues + Weds, I would insist that they take it as sick leave and not annual leave.

    I like the way you think. Thanks for that. Makes perfect sense to me.


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    #42
    mattaiuseire
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 295 ✭✭mattaiuseire


    I might note that her job involves being on her feet serving customers all day, taking deliveries and regular lifting etc. As far as I know, her employers are pretty decent people and I doubt they're trying to catch her out. Covering their own arses insurance wise sure, but...

    So we need to check the terms of her contract in relation to sick days, and also need to find out do they want a medical note to cover the Monday, or the Monday Tues & Weds, and if they say Tues and Weds, query why as they told her to take these days off, not the "docs". Then again even if they only ask for Mondays sick note, surely we should query why they need a cert to cover just one day?

    This brings me into another point - self-certification. You can self certify for 3 days. Could she not fill out a self cert and hand that in instead? Saving her the trip of going to the doctor "again".


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    #43
    Dodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,288 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    mattaiuseire wrote: »
    You can self certify for 3 days. Could she not fill out a self cert and hand that in instead? Saving her the trip of going to the doctor "again".

    You might want to check that. I can't. It's 2 days max for self certification. 3 and above needs a doctor's cert


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    #44
    Greenmachine
    Registered Users Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭Greenmachine


    So many in here advocating more and more lies to cover up for the first lie. When was the first time, that her being bumped into was brought to the table. My feeling is that they know she has given some misinformation, perhaps some inconsistency in her sickie story. When she failed to bring in a sick note, it would have reconfirmed their suspicions.
    Saying she went to the doctor was what caught her out really. More lies and this whole mess will just get too elaborate, and she will be well beyond digging herself out.


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    #45
    Greenmachine
    Registered Users Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭Greenmachine


    So many in here advocating more and more lies to cover up for the first lie. When was the first time, that her being bumped into was brought to the table. My feeling is that they know she has given some misinformation, perhaps some inconsistency in her sickie story. When she failed to bring in a sick note, it would have reconfirmed their suspicions.
    Saying she went to the doctor was what caught her out really. More lies and this whole mess will just get too elaborate, and she will be well beyond digging herself out.


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    #46
    mattaiuseire
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 295 ✭✭mattaiuseire


    Dodge wrote: »
    You might want to check that. I can't. It's 2 days max for self certification. 3 and above needs a doctor's cert

    Okay so 2 days then. A third would require a doctors note.

    So if she went to the doctors on Monday and the doc said she could return the next day, why would they need a sick note? It's the employer that have told her to stay off another 2 days. Will have to get to the bottom of what exactly was said because I've a feeling I'm not getting the full story and she's tried blagging it so much she's ended up shooting herself in the foot.


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    #47
    mattaiuseire
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 295 ✭✭mattaiuseire


    Greenmachine wrote: »
    So many in here advocating more and more lies to cover up for the first lie. When was the first time, that her being bumped into was brought to the table. My feeling is that they know she has given some misinformation, perhaps some inconsistency in her sickie story. When she failed to bring in a sick note, it would have reconfirmed their suspicions.
    Saying she went to the doctor was what caught her out really. More lies and this whole mess will just get too elaborate, and she will be well beyond digging herself out.

    Sunday night she let her employer know she wouldn't be in work due to the incident the day before when she was knocked to the ground.
    Employer calls her the following day to check how she is and saying they will put the day down as annual leave. Also offered her another day off, she refused and said would be okay for work the next day.
    Turns up to work the day as agreed, is told to go home and return Thursday, meanwhile obtain sick note from doctors.


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    #48
    Polo_Mint
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,504 ✭✭✭Polo_Mint


    mattaiuseire wrote: »
    Okay so 2 days then. A third would require a doctors note.

    No . There is no Law on when an employer can request a doctors note.

    An employer can request a doctors note for unauthorised absence even if it was for a half day.

    They can also request it to determine " Fit for work " for insurance purposes.


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    #49
    mattaiuseire
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 295 ✭✭mattaiuseire


    Polo_Mint wrote: »
    No . There is no Law on when an employer can request a doctors note.

    An employer can request a doctors note for unauthorised absence even if it was for a half day.

    They can also request it to determine " Fit for work " for insurance purposes.

    But if the day was recorded as an authorised absence i.e. annual leave, then what?


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    #50
    Deise_vixen
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭Deise_vixen


    Ok so leaving aside the fact that there was no actual visit to the doctor, here's the way I see it....

    Monday the employee allegedly went to the doctor and the doctor "said" yes back might be a bit sore but no major issue, flexibility ok, soreness manageable and advised employee to take Ibuprofen but generally ok to work Tuesday. No cert required as absence only one day.

    Tuesday the employee turns into work and employer says I disagree with the doctor, you are not fit to work, go home and take two more days oh and please provide a cert for these days.

    Employee in this case should have stated that there was no medical reason for the additional days off, that employer cannot second guess doctor decision (I know, I know, there was no decision but...) and that there is no cert for Monday as one was not required.

    So what needs to be clear is that a cert is not required for Monday as there was no medical need, and that certificates are not needed for the additional days as the employee was not certified ill by a doctor but was taking annual leave as requested by their employer.

    The employer requested that the employee stay away from work, this was not the advise of a GP and therefore the employee should not be obliged to provide certs for the absence.

    I think that although the employee created this difficult situation for themselves, they need to be clear with the employer that they are not on certified medical leave but that they are on annual leave at the request of the employer and therefore will not be returning (!) to their doctor for a cert.


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    #51
    Polo_Mint
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,504 ✭✭✭Polo_Mint


    mattaiuseire wrote: »
    But if the day was recorded as an authorised absence i.e. annual leave, then what?

    They can change this on review.

    I believe they are calling your OH's bluff.

    I believe they dont think she was at the doctors.

    She called her employers on Sunday to say " Due to a back injury she is unable to attend work on Monday"

    Suddenly she is able to attend work on Tuesday after saying she attended the doctors.

    A Back injury is not like the sniffles

    She has no proscription or doctors note.

    the employer ( In my mind ) is screaming Bullshit

    Her employer wants proof of the back injury for both insurance and ergonomics


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    #52
    JIdontknow
    Registered Users Posts: 726 ✭✭✭JIdontknow


    mattaiuseire wrote: »
    Sunday night she let her employer know she wouldn't be in work due to the incident the day before when she was knocked to the ground.
    Employer calls her the following day to check how she is and saying they will put the day down as annual leave. Also offered her another day off, she refused and said would be okay for work the next day.
    Turns up to work the day as agreed, is told to go home and return Thursday, meanwhile obtain sick note from doctors.


    It seems the employer is covering themselves as anytime an employer hears injuries like back, they are weary because of the nature of it, and are probably worried that she return in early and hurt it more and they are then liable, especially since you have said the nature of her work is on her feet all day, lifting, etc. That's why they are probably requesting the sick cert and extra time off, so if she hurts her back in work they can prove there was previous injury recently and they followed protocol (In the case a claim is made, not implying or suggesting this at all, but companies will do everything to cover themselves in this eventuality). I imagine they think / know if she has a cert for Monday then it's easy for her to call up and get a follow one for another 2 days that they suggested, from the doctor.

    To me they may have her down as annual leave pending sick cert and asking for this cert so she isn't out of pocket, and asking for a cert to change this from annual to sick leave. It isn't the employers fault all this happened, not that I am taking the high horse approach as the majority of people have taken a "sick day". In this case she has been caught out, as if she says its okay put them as annual leave, then they will ask but have you a sick cert we can put them as sick leave instead...

    On a side note I know of some companies who require a sick note if you miss a Monday or Friday, for obvious reasons...


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    #53
    mattaiuseire
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 295 ✭✭mattaiuseire


    Ok update for you:

    Her boss just called her and said she can't have the Monday, Tues and Weds off as annual leave any more, she has to take the days as sick leave and has to provide a medical cert to cover the days.

    So now they have decided to make her stay off work for 2 days extra and she can't be paid for it because she has to take them as sick days.

    What's all that about??


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    #54
    Polo_Mint
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,504 ✭✭✭Polo_Mint


    mattaiuseire wrote: »
    Ok update for you:

    Her boss just called her and said she can't have the Monday, Tues and Weds off as annual leave any more, she has to take the days as sick leave and has to provide a medical cert to cover the days.

    So now they have decided to make her stay off work for 2 days extra and she can't be paid for it because she has to take them as sick days.

    What's all that about??

    Provide the doctors note stating that it only required 1 day off. Her employer can then book the other 2 days as Annual leave.

    I told you they smelt the Bullshit :pac:


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    #55
    mattaiuseire
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 295 ✭✭mattaiuseire


    Wait til I get home...


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    #56
    JIdontknow
    Registered Users Posts: 726 ✭✭✭JIdontknow


    mattaiuseire wrote: »
    Ok update for you:

    Her boss just called her and said she can't have the Monday, Tues and Weds off as annual leave any more, she has to take the days as sick leave and has to provide a medical cert to cover the days.

    So now they have decided to make her stay off work for 2 days extra and she can't be paid for it because she has to take them as sick days.

    What's all that about??

    Personally I reckon its for insurance reasons and to cover themselves, due to nature of her work and lifting etc, they want the cert so they have a record of her injury incase it flares up or affects her job again and they are worried of a claim down the line due to back injury. That's what it seems to me.

    Plus the fact they probably don't believe the story, I mean if I was calling in sick I wouldn't do it the night before, how did she know Sunday she couldn't work Monday, she should have called the morning of work. If she had a cert for Monday she could show them the cert for Monday and say she was okay to work Tuesday and Wednesday but work wouldn't let her, that is their issue and she shouldn't lose out on pay, she was fit to work.


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    #57
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,572 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    mattaiuseire wrote: »
    Ok update for you:

    Her boss just called her and said she can't have the Monday, Tues and Weds off as annual leave any more, she has to take the days as sick leave and has to provide a medical cert to cover the days.

    So now they have decided to make her stay off work for 2 days extra and she can't be paid for it because she has to take them as sick days.

    What's all that about??

    Sounds like they're calling her bluff regarding her doctors visit. Has she spoken to anyone else that might have set the employer straight regarding the lie about visiting the doctor on Monday ?? Maybe another employee ??

    It's odd they're asking her to stay off without seeing a cert or anything formal, the more the days add up the harder getting a cert will be and so the bigger mess the whole thing has the potential to become.


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    #58
    mattaiuseire
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 295 ✭✭mattaiuseire


    _Brian wrote: »
    Sounds like they're calling her bluff regarding her doctors visit. Has she spoken to anyone else that might have set the employer straight regarding the lie about visiting the doctor on Monday ?? Maybe another employee ??

    It's odd they're asking her to stay off without seeing a cert or anything formal, the more the days add up the harder getting a cert will be and so the bigger mess the whole thing has the potential to become.

    No she hasn't spoken to anyone except me about it.

    How easy will it be now for her to visit the GP tomorrow and say hey I was off work on Monday because I had a little back ache, so I took painkillers and now I'm fine, but my boss wants a sick note to cover the day off ?


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    #59
    Polo_Mint
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,504 ✭✭✭Polo_Mint


    mattaiuseire wrote: »
    No she hasn't spoken to anyone except me about it.

    How easy will it be now for her to visit the GP tomorrow and say hey I was off work on Monday because I had a little back ache, so I took painkillers and now I'm fine, but my boss wants a sick note to cover the day off ?

    Its possible but depending on the doctor.


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    #60
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    mattaiuseire wrote: »
    Ok update for you:

    Her boss just called her and said she can't have the Monday, Tues and Weds off as annual leave any more, she has to take the days as sick leave and has to provide a medical cert to cover the days.

    So now they have decided to make her stay off work for 2 days extra and she can't be paid for it because she has to take them as sick days.

    What's all that about??

    Ok, just to clarify, a GP cannot and will not backdate a medical cert. Following on from media "stings" where GPs were caught giving out unsupported med certs, all GPs are now careful to follow guidelines on certification. This is from the date on which the patient presents so op as your wife claimed she as at the GP, it should be no problem for her to get one for the date she presented. But as she lied, she is now in a tight corner.

    In the case of back problems, particularly one which claimed to require a GP visit, the employer may be following industry guidelines for H&S reasons to prevent further injury and an accusation of negligence. She may be required to present a note verifying that she is fit to return to work.

    Unfortunately there is a lesson to be learned here, you over gilded the lily by saying she visited her GP. You are looking into her legal rights but any action would certainly involve confirmation of her GPs opinion on whether it was ok or not to return to work so you are going to drop yourself further in it if you take action. Karma is a bitch.


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    #61
    JIdontknow
    Registered Users Posts: 726 ✭✭✭JIdontknow


    mattaiuseire wrote: »
    No she hasn't spoken to anyone except me about it.

    How easy will it be now for her to visit the GP tomorrow and say hey I was off work on Monday because I had a little back ache, so I took painkillers and now I'm fine, but my boss wants a sick note to cover the day off ?

    She may need two certs to make it look legit, one for the Monday as her original cert, and then follow one for the Tuesday and Wednesday as per the employees request... If she had a cert for the Monday the doctor might give her a cert for the next two days when the situation is explained (and employer probably is aware of this, and covering themselves), but other than that it depends on the doctor / practice whether they will give a cert for previous days.


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