Employer Asking For Sick Note

esforum

shrapnel222 wrote: »

the sick note will be for today's date. not a hope the GP backdates it.

Plenty will backdate from the date you went sick for the simple reason that theres multiple illnesses that its recommended you dont attend a doctor until afterwards and also multipe reasons why you could not attend such as no appointments being available or not being able to get there on the first day.

Even if its the wrong issuing date, it will still cover the dates in question and can easily be explained as a replacement

Wesser

Mattaiuseire

You ask...."Sorry..... Where is the lie? " And then you say... "All she is asking for is a certificate that she is fit for work."

The lie is not in the cert that she is fit for work. The lie is in the cert that she is sick! Obviously!

It's a lie through and through!! Even the op said it. He said she pulled a sicky! He admitted it!


Of course a doctor would write a quick note for her. But it's morally wrong to lie to your doctor and to ask your doctor to lie for you!!!
If the doctor lied to the patient then the patient would be furious and rightly so.

Why is it ok for a patient to lie to a doctor?
Why is it ok and why are so many people recommending that she asks a doctor to
Lie!!??

davo10

esforum wrote: »

Plenty will backdate from the date you went sick for the simple reason that theres multiple illnesses that its recommended you dont attend a doctor until afterwards and also multipe reasons why you could not attend such as no appointments being available or not being able to get there on the first day.

Even if its the wrong issuing date, it will still cover the dates in question and can easily be explained as a replacement

I disagree with all of this. Few GPs will back date certs, particularly for patients they have never seen before and who did not contact the Clinic the day the symptoms became severe enough to prevent the person going to work.

Whether an employer will accept the explanation is up to each individual employer. A sick cert is specific, it covers the first and last dates the employee is unable to attend for work. Any dates beyond or before that are uncertified.

mattaiuseire

Let's say she really was too sick to go in work on Monday because of the pain in her back, and she still told her employer she had been to the docs on the Monday even though she didn't. What difference does it make?

davo10

mattaiuseire wrote: »

Let's say she really was too sick to go in work on Monday because of the pain in her back, and she still told her employer she had been to the docs on the Monday even though she didn't. What difference does it make?

Ah, she would still be lying about going to the Doctor, she would still be asked for the cert and there probably wouldn't be an issue because if she was unable to go to work, she probably would have gone to the Doctor.

Polo_Mint

mattaiuseire wrote: »

Let's say she really was too sick to go in work on Monday because of the pain in her back, and she still told her employer she had been to the docs on the Monday even though she didn't. What difference does it make?

Matt, Trust me, Put your OH on boards. I think you will get her into trouble.

mattaiuseire

Wesser wrote: »

Mattaiuseire

You ask...."Sorry..... Where is the lie? " And then you say... "All she is asking for is a certificate that she is fit for work."

The lie is not in the cert that she is fit for work. The lie is in the cert that she is sick! Obviously!

It's a lie through and through!! Even the op said it. He said she pulled a sicky! He admitted it!


Of course a doctor would write a quick note for her. But it's morally wrong to lie to your doctor and to ask your doctor to lie for you!!!
If the doctor lied to the patient then the patient would be furious and rightly so.

Why is it ok for a patient to lie to a doctor?
Why is it ok and why are so many people recommending that she asks a doctor to
Lie!!??

I am the OP.

Granted it's a lie, but it's a white lie of the whitest of shades of white. She will explain that she was off on the Monday and was asked for a cert to cover it. If the doc isn't happy to do that then so be it. If they are happy to write it out then take your concerns up with the institute of medical fairies, I couldn't really care less.

In any case, she surely will get a note of sorts confirming ok to work and if she has to blag her employer to accept that then again, so be it.

drunkmonkey

mattaiuseire wrote: »

Let's say she really was too sick to go in work on Monday because of the pain in her back, and she still told her employer she had been to the docs on the Monday even though she didn't. What difference does it make?

It makes no difference but when she threw a lie into the mix they decided to call her bluff. She should have said she was sick and that was the end of it.

mattaiuseire

davo10 wrote: »

Ah, she would still be lying about going to the Doctor, she would still be asked for the cert and there probably wouldn't be an issue because if she was unable to go to work, she probably would have gone to the Doctor.

Not necessarily, she might have felt unfit to go anywhere one day and perfectly fine the next.

Wesser

mattaiuseire wrote: »

I am the OP.

Granted it's a lie, but it's a white lie of the whitest of shades of white. She will explain that she was off on the Monday and was asked for a cert to cover it. If the doc isn't happy to do that then so be it. If they are happy to write it out then take your concerns up with the institute of medical fairies, I couldn't really care less.

In any case, she surely will get a note of sorts confirming ok to work and if she has to blag her employer to accept that then again, so be it.

Sure I agree, get your cert and get on with life.
My original post is really aimed at the majority of people who gave you advice.
It's just a question I'm throwing out there.
It's just part of the general discussion.
I'm just asking why so many people who posted here think it's ok to lie to their doctor. If their doctor lied to them they would be furious. But not the other way. Double standards.
My comment was not so Much aimed at you as just me getting involved in the general discussion.

There's no need to be angry at me. You posted in the first place and do you need to expect general discussion in return.
Wishing you all the best.

mattaiuseire

Wesser wrote: »

Sure I agree, get your cert and get on with life.
My original post is really aimed at the majority of people who gave you advice.
It's just a question I'm throwing out there.
It's just part of the general discussion.
I'm just asking why so many people who posted here think it's ok to lie to their doctor. If their doctor lied to them they would be furious. But not the other way. Double standards.
My comment was not so Much aimed at you as just me getting involved in the general discussion.

There's no need to be angry at me. You posted in the first place and do you need to expect general discussion in return.
Wishing you all the best.

I promise you I'm in no way angry with you at all.

It's fine that people are chipping in with their opinions etc, of course.

Wesser

Not to mention of course that by going to the doctor you are taking time away from people who are really sick with cancer etc. one day when she is really sick and can't get in to see a doctor and is complaining bout the health service she can think back to that day when..

Just another part of the wider discussion.

anewme

mattaiuseire wrote: »

These people make ****ing sandwiches and serve people cigarettes, they don't know jack, and if she has to blag them to save face then so be it.

Very disrespectful comment.

You admit in another post that these employers have been very good to your girlfriend.

Yet above here you speaking about about them like they are thick and its ok to "blag to them to save face"

It's a very very poor and disrespectful way to speak about people who have been good to her, who are probably in reality only Joe Soaps running a small business as best they can. Someone ringing in sick can cause no end of bother to a small business such as this as half the time the owners end up covering.

Your posts are more concerned with the fact that now your girlfriend have to go (and PAY for a doctors cert. instead of actually being sorry for lying)

Well, they may only make f......sandwiches (as you say) but you have underestimated them as they appear to have copped on to the "blag" and more power to them.

Lying and then blagging it out as you say is never a good trait in an employee. Yet you are full of excuses.

Poor form indeed!

mattaiuseire

anewme wrote: »

Very disrespectful comment.

You admit in another post that these employers have been very good to your girlfriend.

Yet above here you speaking about about them like they are thick and its ok to "blag to them to save face"

It's a very very poor and disrespectful way to speak about people who have been good to her, who are probably in reality only Joe Soaps running a small business as best they can. Someone ringing in sick can cause no end of bother to a small business such as this as half the time the owners end up covering.

Your posts are more concerned with the fact that now your girlfriend have to go (and PAY for a doctors cert. instead of actually being sorry for lying)

Well, they may only make f......sandwiches (as you say) but you have underestimated them as they appear to have copped on to the "blag" and more power to them.

Lying and then blagging it out as you say is never a good trait in an employee. Yet you are full of excuses.

Poor form indeed!

Thanks boss.

I do agree actually, that was wrong of me. Got carried away with myself I do apologise. They are indeed a good bunch and I take that back.

esforum

davo10 wrote: »

I disagree with all of this. Few GPs will back date certs, particularly for patients they have never seen before and who did not contact the Clinic the day the symptoms became severe enough to prevent the person going to work.

Whether an employer will accept the explanation is up to each individual employer. A sick cert is specific, it covers the first and last dates the employee is unable to attend for work. Any dates beyond or before that are uncertified.

whats so hard to grasp here? notes have 3 dates on them,

unfit from

fit from

issued date

The issue date is irelevent and no employer can query it. I have a cert covering the dates in question, case closed.

I have gotten a replacement cert over a year after being sick and also obtained certs covering dates I was not at my doctor. Simple because A, work lost the original and B, I have an exitsing condition that my GP does not expect me to crawl to his surgery over every single time nor could he attend to me every single time.

Doctors take appointments, well known, trusted, competent ones tend to be booked up solid at least a few days in advance and cant squeeze in minor complaints just because you want a cert. Thus, I am sick on Monday and Tuesday, back to work Wednesday. My cert states I was seen on Tuesday and unfit for work Monday and Tuesday, fit to resume on Wednesday.

I didnt mention walking into a doctor I have never met before and I dont think the OP suggested it either.

You will find social welfare certs are issued by GP's in a lot of cases without seeing the patient as well. reason why? Long term illness but the social still requires weekly certs or they stop payment. If my Gp knows my broken leg wont heal until April, we wont require seeing my every bloody week now will he?

anewme

Not sure what you mean by the boss comment?

I'm a worker bee who has seen all too often in my working life how people who create drama such as this ruin it for everyone else when the good employers get a pain in their backside and no one gets sick pay.

I agree with the other poster who said you come across as angry...I would say more like self-entitled, however, it was the blatent disrespect towards good people that made me see red.

Glad you recognse this.

davo10

esforum wrote: »

whats so hard to grasp here?

I didnt mention walking into a doctor I have never met before and I dont think the OP suggested it either.

Ya, he did, in earlier posts the op said his wife's GP is the other side of the country and she had never seen a GP where they live.

You have a chronic condition and and a history of repeated absences due to that condition which the GP is aware of.

I know what is on a cert, I'm an employer, and I also write them.

mattaiuseire

davo10 wrote: »

Ya, he did, in earlier posts the op said his wife's GP is the other side of the country and she had never seen a GP where they live.

You have a chronic condition and and a history of repeated absences due to that condition which the GP is aware of.

I know what is on a cert, I'm an employer, and I also write them.

I never said that. I said her family GP is in another county. We have lived in Dublin for long enough and we are registered with a clinic and have used their services previously.

mattaiuseire

anewme wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by the boss comment?

I'm a worker bee who has seen all too often in my working life how people who create drama such as this ruin it for everyone else when the good employers get a pain in their backside and no one gets sick pay.

I agree with the other poster who said you come across as angry...I would say more like self-entitled, however, it was the blatent disrespect towards good people that made me see red.

Glad you recognse this.

Certainly not an angry person anyway.

Ignore the boss comment, just my slang (I'm not from this country).

Lau2976

Ignoring morality, did she tell them she had been to the doctor or was going to go? Did she tell them that she attended definitively? If not got a fit for work cert and tell them her back was too sore to attend on Monday. Or that she couldn't afford the doctor when it was just inflammation pain and over the counter mess were working.

On the opinion side, as a small business owner, calling a sickie can f up me and other staff totally. Your gf was sick, don't really see the need to lie in the first place?

mattaiuseire

Lau2976 wrote: »

Ignoring morality, did she tell them she had been to the doctor or was going to go? Did she tell them that she attended definitively? If not got a fit for work cert and tell them her back was too sore to attend on Monday. Or that she couldn't afford the doctor when it was just inflammation pain and over the counter mess were working.

On the opinion side, as a small business owner, calling a sickie can f up me and other staff totally. Your gf was sick, don't really see the need to lie in the first place?

There wasn't, she just didn't realise she'd get herself into this mess.

She told them she was going on Monday and didn't correct them when they asked about it so basically she agreed to her own porkie if that makes any sense.

davo10

mattaiuseire wrote: »

There wasn't, she just didn't realise she'd get herself into this mess.

She told them she was going on Monday and didn't correct them when they asked about it so basically she agreed to her own porkie if that makes any sense.

No it doesn't. She didn't go to the Doctor.

Look, I don't care about the morality of this issue, but I can assure you as a health care practitioner who writes sick certs, that ethically and medico legally the GP she visits will not back date a cert in a situation like this where the patient presents for the first time with a complaint which no longer exists (you said she was well enough to work on Tuesday).

Lau2976

mattaiuseire wrote: »

There wasn't, she just didn't realise she'd get herself into this mess.

She told them she was going on Monday and didn't correct them when they asked about it so basically she agreed to her own porkie if that makes any sense.

I think you misunderstood. I didn't mean she was ignoring morality, I meant not including how I felt personally about the suggestion, she could do that

mattaiuseire

You've completely lost me sorry. You asked did she tell her employer she went to the doctors definitively. She did yes, is what I was trying to say.

davo10

Op, maybe you posted this already, how long has she been working there?

mattaiuseire

davo10 wrote: »

Op, maybe you posted this already, how long has she been working there?

Just over a year or so now. No previous issues, no warnings or anything.

davo10

mattaiuseire wrote: »

Just over a year or so now. No previous issues, no warnings or anything.

Ok so. I was going to say that if it was less than one year then they could let her go but if it's more than one year she has better employment rights.

mattaiuseire

davo10 wrote: »

Ok so. I was going to say that if it was less than one year then they could let her go but if it's more than one year she has better employment rights.

Yeah to be honest I don't think they want her out or anything, think they're just covering their business which is fair enough.

Seldom do many threads have an outcome, but for anyone who's interested I will update after my girlfriend goes to the docs. Will see what happens!

granturismo

Polo_Mint wrote: »

The employer does not have to accept that Monday was an uncertified sick day.

They can treat it as a unauthorized absence pending a doctors note

Employees are entitled to an uncertified sick day.

Stheno

granturismo wrote: »

Employees are entitled to an uncertified sick day.

Eh no they are not, there is nothing in legislation that restricts employers in asking for a sick cert regardless of the length of absence.