Brazilian Jiu Jitsu - General Thread

RoboRat

After it heals, wipe with methylated spirits every night, this will help toughen them up quickly... or else soak your feel in warm salty water.

Black Sheep

Just curious what gis / kimonos people are wearing and what they think.

When I started it was old school brands like Koral, HCK, Atama, Gameness and I think more people wore gold weaves and heavier gis compared to today when seems like more go for for lighter gis for everyday training. Construction of jackets then often had the seam up the back versus the seamless construction of most(?) jackets today.

I recently read a post by Howard Liu (HCK) and he was slightly dismissive of the trend for short runs and pre-orders, seemed to be suggesting that this was almost disposable fashion versus gear for serious training like the double weaves they used to make. It strikes me that he's probably right that there's a market for blingy or small batch BJJ gear that didn't exist previously, and more of an interest in how a gi looks, but I'm not sure he's right that the quality of gi construction has necessarily gone backwards, I'd be curious on other people's views on that (particularly RoboRat's).

When it comes to what I think of as newer companies I recently bought a Scramble standard issue gi and like it, soft, lightweight, quick shipping from the UK etc but was wondering if anyone has experience of the likes of 93 Brand, Hyperfly or Kingz?

feelpablo

Black Sheep wrote: »

Just curious what gis / kimonos people are wearing and what they think.

When I started it was old school brands like Koral, HCK, Atama, Gameness and I think more people wore gold weaves and heavier gis compared to today when seems like more go for for lighter gis for everyday training. Construction of jackets then often had the seam up the back versus the seamless construction of most(?) jackets today.

I recently read a post by Howard Liu (HCK) and he was slightly dismissive of the trend for short runs and pre-orders, seemed to be suggesting that this was almost disposable fashion versus gear for serious training like the double weaves they used to make. It strikes me that he's probably right that there's a market for blingy or small batch BJJ gear that didn't exist previously, and more of an interest in how a gi looks, but I'm not sure he's right that the quality of gi construction has necessarily gone backwards, I'd be curious on other people's views on that (particularly RoboRat's).

When it comes to what I think of as newer companies I recently bought a Scramble standard issue gi and like it, soft, lightweight, quick shipping from the UK etc but was wondering if anyone has experience of the likes of 93 Brand, Hyperfly or Kingz?

Cant speak for the other brands but a training partner of mines is a rep for kingz, we have all got different levels of gis of him.

I got the cheapest cause i do have a heap all ready and my wife would have went mad!! really surprised by how well its made. i have it nearly a yea, it gets worn once a week and is still in great shape and didnt shrink.

I also like that they do half sizes so i got an A1L and it fits perfectly.

Recently got a present of a tatami estilo and by jesus is that a ****in great gi!!

Also the wolfhound brand... Irish Brand, one of the owners post on here i think under roborat?? I have two of them, great gis and your supporting an irish buisness

Black Sheep

I have a Wolfhound celt (black gi with the ogham) and it's definitely a quality gi based on feel, construction, inspection of it. Haven't actually worn it yet, I'm not sure if it's too blingy for me, I may 'catch and release'.

The Tatami Estilo seems to consistently appear in top lists alright.

Mellor

Black Sheep wrote: »

I recently read a post by Howard Liu (HCK) and he was slightly dismissive of the trend for short runs and pre-orders, seemed to be suggesting that this was almost disposable fashion versus gear for serious training like the double weaves they used to make.

As he's making older style, heavier gis. It's in his interest to push those style of gis. And sure those heavy weaves will stand up to all sorts of abuse. They'll probably last for 1000's of hours. But I'd disagree that they are better for serious training. If you are a serious competitor you simply can't afford to give up those kg's unnecessarily in competition.

RoboRat

My 2 cents, there are a lot of companies who have jumped into the Gi market as a quick buck and they do a lot of small runs and pre-orders.

Personally, we don't do pre-orders and the reason is simple, if the gi isn't to our quality standards, we won't sell it. We have received orders in the past and sent them back or absorbed the loss and never used that manufacturer again... quality is paramount for us and if we are not happy with it, it doesn't go on sale. If however you have taken peoples money, they are expecting a gi so you are left to (a) refund them (b) hold them off or (c) as what happens in a lot of cases, send out low quality products.

In regards to the weaves, we find it's really up to people's individual tastes. Most seasoned BJJ'ers have a weave they like and are not as fussed about design. Some like the heavier harder to grip 550gsm gold weave, others prefer the lighter 450gsm pearl weave. There are loads of new weaves and we have tried a lot but we found the the best and most reliable weaves are the pearl and gold weave.

I regards to his comments about heavier weaves, whilst they are undoubtedly more rugged, the trade off is that there will always be more shrinkage on heavier weaves, particularly gold weaves. It's less so with the 550gsm pearl weave but the pearl weave is easier to grip so it kind of defeats the purpose to go with a heavier pearl weave.

From my experience, a good quality 450gsm pearl weave is as rugged as you need, we have tested pulling a car with ours so that's good enough for us. The most important aspects of the material is that it is firstly good quality cotton - we pay more for better quality cotton and better quality weavers, it cuts our margin significantly but its a trade off that we are willing to take.

The second thing is that its not over treated, this is especially prevalent with white gi's as some manufacturers bleach them and this can really weaken the fibers.

Finally is the stitching and paneling of the gi's - My degree is in product design so I was able to design a gi from scratch which drew from my BJJ experience and understanding of stress points. Our gi's have added reinforcement in the areas which encounter the most stress so there is less chance of them ripping in these areas - a prime example is the fact that we use a pearl weave in the crotch area of the pants, and pearl weave on the knees... this is something that a few manufacturers are now doing.

Naturally we have had some issues but we have been quick to sort them out and work with our manufacturer to ensure they don't happen but sometimes they do!

Finally, thanks for the lovely comments about our gear, getting this kind of feedback makes it really worthwhile :-)

Mellor

RoboRat wrote: »

From my experience, a good quality 450gsm pearl weave is as rugged as you need, we have tested pulling a car with ours so that's good enough for us.

Agreed. I've a 450g pearl and think it's perfect. If you want heavier a 550g gold is plenty. The 600-950g golds and doubles are hard to grip, but you'll probably have to go up a division. :pac:

I've have a very light ripstop gi too, weight is good but it's not comfortable or breathable. I'm not sure what they are making the current ultra-lite comp legal gi's from

RoboRat

Mellor wrote: »

I'm not sure what they are making the current ultra-lite comp legal gi's from

Generally ripstop or a single weave - I don't get them either, I know they are handy if you fancy traveling with your gi for a bit of holiday rolling or are bordering on a weight category and might need it to ensure you get into that category.

I guess they dry quicker too but in reality, if you are serious about BJJ you would have a few gi's anyhow.

agent graves

Is there somewhere that posts about upcoming small tournament.. the Irish Brazilian bjj page only does the big ones really..

rain on

agent graves wrote: »

Is there somewhere that posts about upcoming small tournament.. the Irish Brazilian bjj page only does the big ones really..

Are you in the Irish BJJ facebook group? Organisers of smaller tournaments usually post their info there, and the competition calendar in the pinned post is updated regularly - https://www.facebook.com/groups/1419240074963839

RoboRat

agent graves wrote: »

Is there somewhere that posts about upcoming small tournament.. the Irish Brazilian bjj page only does the big ones really..

If you want I can post it on the Wolfhound Fightwear page? A lot of the Irish BJJ community are fans so it might help. Just PM us a link through facebook and we will post it.

RoboRat

Small rant I want to get off my chest!

Last night at training I was rolling with a new-ish guy, he's been training 6 months. I felt he was focusing too much on the flash stuff like berimbolo's and neglecting the basics like position... but each to their own.

When I roll with whites, I try and pass on some of my experience; if they do something well I tell them and if I think there is something they may I missed, I will go back to it and explain... I like to help and it's nice to give something back, I always appreciated when a higher belt took the time to try and progress my game.

Anyhow, last night I gave my back as I wanted to work on escapes and he got a RNC in, like most whites he was squeezing like a mofo but my chin was tucked in the crook of his elbow so I just waited it out until he burnt his arms out. I explained to him the way I was trained to finish a RNC was instead of squeezing, was to pull his forearm across the neck and choke with the blade of the arm... I do this all the time and its far easier to finish plus it can be done with one or 2 arms.

He told me I was wrong! That was not the right way and that his way was better. I explained that he had a tight RNC but couldn't finish and this way he could.

No, he didn't think my way was better so I asked him to try both and my way was far tighter but he then said I was tapping because I wanted to show my way was better. I was beginning to lose patience so I said I would do both on him so he could see the difference. Again his response was I wasn't squeezing hard enough doing it his way.

I just gave up which I am sure he will if he can't listen, but it seems a running theme with younger guys. I don't know if its a generation thing or watching too many UFC fights or Youtube videos but they seem to think they know it all.

I know if I was him and someone with 5 years training was taking the time to help, I would be listening to every word.

/rant

Subcomandante Marcos

RoboRat wrote: »

Small rant I want to get off my chest!

Last night at training I was rolling with a new-ish guy, he's been training 6 months. I felt he was focusing too much on the flash stuff like berimbolo's and neglecting the basics like position... but each to their own.

When I roll with whites, I try and pass on some of my experience; if they do something well I tell them and if I think there is something they may I missed, I will go back to it and explain... I like to help and it's nice to give something back, I always appreciated when a higher belt took the time to try and progress my game.

Anyhow, last night I gave my back as I wanted to work on escapes and he got a RNC in, like most whites he was squeezing like a mofo but my chin was tucked in the crook of his elbow so I just waited it out until he burnt his arms out. I explained to him the way I was trained to finish a RNC was instead of squeezing, was to pull his forearm across the neck and choke with the blade of the arm... I do this all the time and its far easier to finish plus it can be done with one or 2 arms.

He told me I was wrong! That was not the right way and that his way was better. I explained that he had a tight RNC but couldn't finish and this way he could.

No, he didn't think my way was better so I asked him to try both and my way was far tighter but he then said I was tapping because I wanted to show my way was better. I was beginning to lose patience so I said I would do both on him so he could see the difference. Again his response was I wasn't squeezing hard enough doing it his way.

I just gave up which I am sure he will if he can't listen, but it seems a running theme with younger guys. I don't know if its a generation thing or watching too many UFC fights or Youtube videos but they seem to think they know it all.

I know if I was him and someone with 5 years training was taking the time to help, I would be listening to every word.

/rant

Choke him out your way and when he refuses to tap just let him nap.

I've gotten over my reluctance to sleep guys in the last few months and have strangled a few white belts who refused to tap, they tap the next time.

Mini850

RoboRat wrote: »

Small rant I want to get off my chest!

Last night at training I was rolling with a new-ish guy, he's been training 6 months. I felt he was focusing too much on the flash stuff like berimbolo's and neglecting the basics like position... but each to their own.

When I roll with whites, I try and pass on some of my experience; if they do something well I tell them and if I think there is something they may I missed, I will go back to it and explain... I like to help and it's nice to give something back, I always appreciated when a higher belt took the time to try and progress my game.

Anyhow, last night I gave my back as I wanted to work on escapes and he got a RNC in, like most whites he was squeezing like a mofo but my chin was tucked in the crook of his elbow so I just waited it out until he burnt his arms out. I explained to him the way I was trained to finish a RNC was instead of squeezing, was to pull his forearm across the neck and choke with the blade of the arm... I do this all the time and its far easier to finish plus it can be done with one or 2 arms.

He told me I was wrong! That was not the right way and that his way was better. I explained that he had a tight RNC but couldn't finish and this way he could.

No, he didn't think my way was better so I asked him to try both and my way was far tighter but he then said I was tapping because I wanted to show my way was better. I was beginning to lose patience so I said I would do both on him so he could see the difference. Again his response was I wasn't squeezing hard enough doing it his way.

I just gave up which I am sure he will if he can't listen, but it seems a running theme with younger guys. I don't know if its a generation thing or watching too many UFC fights or Youtube videos but they seem to think they know it all.

I know if I was him and someone with 5 years training was taking the time to help, I would be listening to every word.

/rant

If his attitude doesn't change, I bet he will quit, because others who do listen will pass him by.

I'm a white belt and when ever I roll with a higher belt, I try learn from them any way I can.

Mellor

RoboRat wrote: »

Last night at training I was rolling with a new-ish guy, he's been training 6 months. I felt he was focusing too much on the flash stuff like berimbolo's and neglecting the basics like position... but each to their own.

In abouta year he'll learn that boring fundamentals are the shit when it comes on crushing guys.

He told me I was wrong! That was not the right way and that his way was better. I explained that he had a tight RNC but couldn't finish and this way he could.

I'd have stopped at this point, just nodded and said, "if you say so".
Then obviously RNC'd him in the next roll. At some point, when he was repeatedly losing the finish he'd realise.

You can lead a horse to water...

laoch na mona

RoboRat wrote: »

Small rant I want to get off my chest!



I just gave up which I am sure he will if he can't listen, but it seems a running theme with younger guys. I don't know if its a generation thing or watching too many UFC fights or Youtube videos but they seem to think they know it all.

I'm a young fella and I always appreciate when someone takes the time to show me something. Your man is just a dick

RoboRat

Mellor wrote: »

In abouta year he'll learn that boring fundamentals are the shit when it comes on crushing guys.

100%, position over submission and keep your enemies close but your elbows closer. I have gone back to a lot of the stuff I learned in the beginning and have re-explored them with a better knowledge, and it's really progressing my game.

I can't see him sticking with it to be honest, if he does he will have to drastically change his attitude.

The White Feather

RoboRat wrote: »

Anyhow, last night I gave my back as I wanted to work on escapes and he got a RNC in, like most whites he was squeezing like a mofo but my chin was tucked in the crook of his elbow so I just waited it out until he burnt his arms out. I explained to him the way I was trained to finish a RNC was instead of squeezing, was to pull his forearm across the neck and choke with the blade of the arm... I do this all the time and its far easier to finish plus it can be done with one or 2 arms.

Say if I am in RNC Choke position on you and wanting to choke you with my right arm, do you mean use my right forearm on your adams apple area? Or use it on the left hand side of your neck ?

I have only had a small few classes in BJJ so still working on the basics. When rolling I can get into good positions like the RNC but have trouble finishing it.I would be appreciating any help from senior belts in class so that guy was just one of those annoying guys.

Mellor

The White Feather wrote: »

Say if I am in RNC Choke position on you and wanting to choke you with my right arm, do you mean use my right forearm on your adams apple area? Or use it on the left hand side of your neck ?

What he means (I think at least) is that your man was just squeezing - with his biceps, forarms, etc. Like how you squeeze when you get someone in a headlock as a kid. You can get the choke like this, but its brute force.
A better way to finish involves levering your grip. There are a few ways to do that. That way I do it, that I think Roborat is describing, is to get the non-choking arm back first locking that wrist in place then pull the choking arm across the neck - think of getting that elbow back to their shoulder.

There's probably better gifs to show it, but this was the first one I thought of;
Note, Gunni isn't under the chin here so he gets the tap without pulling back too far. You can make out the start of the movement I was trying to describe
https://streamable.com/e8np

Clive

RoboRat wrote: »

He told me I was wrong! That was not the right way and that his way was better.

Not to defend the guy, because he sounds like a douche rather than just pedantic like me, but technically he's right.

A classical rear naked is a blood choke, pulling in with the forearm changes it to attack the windpipe. It's a pretty common variation, especially in MMA, but it's usually called a short choke to differentiate it from the mechanically different RNC.

RoboRat

Clive wrote: »

Not to defend the guy, because he sounds like a douche rather than just pedantic like me, but technically he's right.

A classical rear naked is a blood choke, pulling in with the forearm changes it to attack the windpipe. It's a pretty common variation, especially in MMA, but it's usually called a short choke to differentiate it from the mechanically different RNC.

You're right in that a traditional RNC is a blood choke and I never said he was wrong, I was just showing him the variation which switches it to a air choke.

It's far easier for bjj beginners to nail the air choke versus the blood choke as they generally go at the blood choke thinking its an air choke and they tend to pull your head into them, trying to cut off the air with the crook of the elbow, when they should be focusing on the bicep on one side and the forearm on the other and how to squeeze the sides.

Say if I am in RNC Choke position on you and wanting to choke you with my right arm, do you mean use my right forearm on your adams apple area? Or use it on the left hand side of your neck ?

A good way to understand the mechanics of this choke is to do it one handed and grab the shoulder blade with your right arm, bring your forearm under the chin and when this is in position, pull your right elbow into yourself (and if possible in a slight upward trajectory).

Once you understand the mechanics you can then do it with a traditional style (grabbing your bicep) or with gable grips (my preference). Your forearm goes across the adams apple but for maximum effect use the blade of your forearm... I also find it much easier this way to sink this choke in when someone is dropping their chin.

This is a good video from MG, you can see he uses his forearm across the trachea to choke rather than a traditional RNC blood choke - the great thing is that it can be done with single handed too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhOMJg90oTY&feature=youtu.be

Clive

RoboRat wrote: »

You're right in that a traditional RNC is a blood choke and I never said he was wrong, I was just showing him the variation which switches it to a air choke.

One thing I struggled with when I started coaching, and am still working on is precision and clarity in description and demonstration.

When you say variation, I know exactly what you mean (variation of finish within an established position). When I say the D'arce and triangle are variations you know exactly what I mean (variations on a principle). Does a beginner know?

To most beginners, in my experience, "variation" means a relatively small change - here's the RNC, here's the RNC with only the bottom hook in, here's the RNC using the top hook to trap an arm. Being shown two different chokes, with different mechanics and being told they are "variations" of the RNC will confuse most beginners.

This guy was abrasive enough to say you were wrong (and I understand the frustration of going out of your way for someone only to have it thrown back in your face), other beginners will thank you and go and be confused, others will get exactly what you mean, others will have success with your way and then tell their classmates that their instructor didn't show them the best way to do it.

Helping each other along is what good teammates do, but being able to convey information to someone with a different knowledge base is a skill that takes a lot of work.

TitianGerm

RoboRat wrote: »

Small rant I want to get off my chest!

Last night at training I was rolling with a new-ish guy, he's been training 6 months. I felt he was focusing too much on the flash stuff like berimbolo's and neglecting the basics like position... but each to their own.

When I roll with whites, I try and pass on some of my experience; if they do something well I tell them and if I think there is something they may I missed, I will go back to it and explain... I like to help and it's nice to give something back, I always appreciated when a higher belt took the time to try and progress my game.

Anyhow, last night I gave my back as I wanted to work on escapes and he got a RNC in, like most whites he was squeezing like a mofo but my chin was tucked in the crook of his elbow so I just waited it out until he burnt his arms out. I explained to him the way I was trained to finish a RNC was instead of squeezing, was to pull his forearm across the neck and choke with the blade of the arm... I do this all the time and its far easier to finish plus it can be done with one or 2 arms.

He told me I was wrong! That was not the right way and that his way was better. I explained that he had a tight RNC but couldn't finish and this way he could.

No, he didn't think my way was better so I asked him to try both and my way was far tighter but he then said I was tapping because I wanted to show my way was better. I was beginning to lose patience so I said I would do both on him so he could see the difference. Again his response was I wasn't squeezing hard enough doing it his way.

I just gave up which I am sure he will if he can't listen, but it seems a running theme with younger guys. I don't know if its a generation thing or watching too many UFC fights or Youtube videos but they seem to think they know it all.

I know if I was him and someone with 5 years training was taking the time to help, I would be listening to every word.

/rant

Are you not a coach in a club? Or am i mixing you up with someone else?

I'd never dream of being so disrespectful to my coach, and i doubt any of the other lads in my club would be disrespectful either.

Gamebred

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSRuIJggy8j/?taken-by=leg_locker


Who needs training partners...

RoboRat

Are you not a coach in a club? Or am i mixing you up with someone else?

No, not a coach, been training 5 years though. I co-own Wolfhound Fightwear, perhaps that's it?

One thing I struggled with when I started coaching, and am still working on is precision and clarity in description and demonstration.

When you say variation, I know exactly what you mean (variation of finish within an established position). When I say the D'arce and triangle are variations you know exactly what I mean (variations on a principle). Does a beginner know?

To most beginners, in my experience, "variation" means a relatively small change - here's the RNC, here's the RNC with only the bottom hook in, here's the RNC using the top hook to trap an arm. Being shown two different chokes, with different mechanics and being told they are "variations" of the RNC will confuse most beginners.

I understand what you're saying Clive but this was a slight variation and I have previously shown a couple of my white belt team mates and they love it and got it straight away, when they weren't nailing the RNC.

A lot of beginners I have encountered think the traditional RNC is a choke... as in closing off the airwave kind of choke, so therefore they go about doing it incorrectly. They focus on trying to pull their arm across the trachea at the elbow and if you are experienced, you tuck your chin and there is enough room in the crook of the elbow to wait it out.

Rather than going about trying to explain the difference between a blood choke and air choke, it's easier to make a slight adjustment as most new people think all chokes are air chokes, they have no idea there are 2 types.

Gamebred

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSYwP7ZgPKD/


AJ at it again what a ****.

Zero-Cool

Rick James would have been proud of that slap.

Dtp1979

Gamebred wrote: »

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSYwP7ZgPKD/


AJ at it again what a ****.

Who is that?

Mellor

Gamebred wrote: »

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSYwP7ZgPKD/


AJ at it again what a ****.

To fair, they were both at it. And while the clash of heads was intentional and a dick-move. The slap was cnutish too.
AJ's theatrics are lol-worthy though. Said as much to him of Reddit earlier.

If that was any one other than AJ people would be blaming the other guy.
But nobody gives a **** when its AJ, cos a) He's a dick, and b) It's always him involved in these incident

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Who is that?

Headbutter is AJ Agazam
Slapper is that Muslim guy from Chechnya

Mellor