Brazilian Jiu Jitsu - General Thread

Subcomandante Marcos

veganrun wrote: »

Do you wash your belts? If so, how do you stop the stripes coming off in the wash?

Of course you wash your belt. If the stripe comes off just put a new piece of tape on to replace it.

veganrun

Good to know thanks.

RoboRat

veganrun wrote: »

Do you wash your belts? If so, how do you stop the stripes coming off in the wash?

Please wash your belt, many forget and it becomes a festering mess of bacteria

MagicIRL

For a more "sciencey" approach; http://bjiujitsu.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/microbiologists-take-on-bjj.html?m=1

veganrun

I do wash the belt, just wondering what happens to the stripes when I eventually start getting them.

TitianGerm

veganrun wrote: »

I do wash the belt, just wondering what happens to the stripes when I eventually start getting them.

Just put new tape on. Just don't add any extra

MagicIRL

Does anyone have any recommendations for knee braces? I've noticed my left knee tends to hurt a bit after class and I'm thinking a good brace would help keep it more stable during class? I've probably strained it or tweaked it when rolling and it's catching up to me.

I'd like to prevent any further damage rather than waiting and re-acting to a serious injury later on.

Mellor

I sometimes wear a rehband knee sleeve when training. Mainly just keeps the knee warm and comfortable.
If you wanted more stability, you could look at something like this with flexible metal supports. I don't think the hard metal type would be suitable for rolling.

MagicIRL

Mellor wrote: »

I sometimes wear a rehband knee sleeve when training. Mainly just keeps the knee warm and comfortable.
If you wanted more stability, you could look at something like this with flexible metal supports. I don't think the hard metal type would be suitable for rolling.

It doesn't really feel like it's unstable, more like, it hurts more than I used to after training or certain positions put additional strain on it. I walk/run/jump/kneel/etc. without any issue.

I see Reddit recommending https://www.bauerfeind.com/b2c/ anyone tried this?

Another, much cheaper option I'm considering: https://www.amazon.com/UFlex-Athletics-Compression-Arthritis-Recovery-Single/dp/B019ZK0WRQ

Mellor

Those two are similar to the rehband knee sleeve that I use. Mainly aimed at weightlifting, running, etc. But work fine for jiu jitsu too.

https://www.roguefitness.com/rehband-7751-knee-support

RoboRat

I have this one and its great (I had my knees rebuilt):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/NEO-Open-Knee-Support-rehabilitation/dp/B001M04WVK/ref=sr_1_6_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1504688149&sr=8-6&keywords=knee+supports+for+joint+pain

badbeatcentral

General question folks but what do you guys recommend for avoiding long term injuries like chronic back pain.

Seems like there's a trend of anyone who trains BJJ with any sort of regularity develops chronic back issues later in life. I'm generalising here but high profile cases like Rickson Gracie (8 herniated discs) Eddie Bravo (disc/cartilage issues) spring to mind.

Having a look around then I came across this medical study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26259668. It claims that in a sample of 72 individuals training BJJ ~80% complained of chronic lower back pain.

What are people's experience and potential ways to counteract this? I've been training for a year with no injury issues but it seems inevitable from the above %'s

MagicIRL

A sample of 72 jiujitsu practitioners isn't a very high barometer to measure. I'd say SBG Concorde alone has over 72 active jiujitsu players.

In terms of preventing injury - use a foam roller before and after each session. Ensure you warm up fully. Do not force positions and understand when to let go instead of, for example, holding desperate triangle/armbar attempts while you're being stacked increasingly.

I have no evidence to back any of this up though. It would just be my idea of what areas I could foresee causing discomfort in the long-run and stuff I try to avoid doing where possible.

Gamebred

No expert but a stronger core will help for a start, some people ive trained with do half arsed warm ups and go straight into throwing their body round the mats, a foam roller helps too.

TitianGerm

Warm up properly and try Yoga.

I'd horrible back pain even before BJJ from sitting for long hours at a desk. After a few weeks of Yoga the pain was gone.

Black Sheep

badbeatcentral wrote: »

General question folks but what do you guys recommend for avoiding long term injuries like chronic back pain.

Seems like there's a trend of anyone who trains BJJ with any sort of regularity develops chronic back issues later in life. I'm generalising here but high profile cases like Rickson Gracie (8 herniated discs) Eddie Bravo (disc/cartilage issues) spring to mind.

Having a look around then I came across this medical study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26259668. It claims that in a sample of 72 individuals training BJJ ~80% complained of chronic lower back pain.

What are people's experience and potential ways to counteract this? I've been training for a year with no injury issues but it seems inevitable from the above %'s

Without talking studies, anecdotally I have met enough long term BJJ players to believe that yes, disc issues are fairly common.

John Kavanagh has spoken a little about his neck difficulties, and without 'outing' anyone else who maybe doesn't want the public attention there are lots of other Irish BJJ pioneers with disc issues. One person I can think of left the sport completely because of them.

My view on why they are common is that it that the sport - or at least a risky practice of it - involves positions that are pretty close to what you would design if you understood the mechanism of disc issues and wanted to encourage them.

You can usually safely compress your spine ... Or rotate it... Or even have it exposed to a degree of shear force. Within reasonable loading parameters. But if you are in a position where you have all of these going on, with quite a bit of loading due to a weight discrepancy, then you're going to be in difficulty. This is sometimes why people tweak their back lifting something 'relatively' light. They've just done a heavy deadlift safely, but then hurt themselves putting away a 24kg kettlebel. Why? Maybe they're bending and twisting to get it into an awkward space on a self - compression, rotation and a bit of shear.

In BJJ terms: If you are being stacked back on your neck it's one thing, but if there is a big weight discrepancy there is considerable loading there. Add to that some rotation if the guy on top is passing to one side.. And maybe there's some shear if he really puts pressure on the neck with his angling. Or, a more obvious example: a neck crank like a grovit front face lock applied with some gusto. I'm not saying they neck cranks aren't legit techniques but the mechanics of how they work mimics perfectly the mechanism of how a neck injury is thought to occur according to what I think the model is.

The answer, to finally get to the point:-

- Roll intelligently by tapping appropriately in training unless either competing or doing competition prep or at least otherwise be aware that what you're doing could have consequences down the line. A lot of the guys with jacked up spines do seem to be the people who put in on the line a lot. John Kavanagh rolled with a lot of heavier, aggressive and non-technical guys in the wild west days of early Irish BJJ. For me, if I am not competing or really doing it for good reason, why would I put myself in dangerous of not being able to do BJJ for the rest of my life for the sake of not tapping in training (often it's not even not tapping, it's about not giving up a pass).

- Consider weight discrepancies and whether you really want to be stacking a much smaller person necessarily, and vice versa whether you really want to be stacked by that 130kg guy in your gym because your ego doesn't want to give up the pass to him.

- Foam roll the thoracic spine because you want mobility there. I would not recommend foam rolling the lumbar spine (lower back) or otherwise excessively stretching it out, whether with classic low back stretches or with too much rotational work. It has its place but as opposed to having a low back that tends to hyper mobility you want a strong lower back and core that can generate 'super stiffness' to support the spine when needed. Dr Stuart McGill has a lot of freely available information online and in his books as to why this is the case. His model is not accepted by everyone but I think it is one of the better ones out there for athletes. Something I haven't personally explored - as fortunately my low back has been sound so far - is the idea of ways of putting the low back in traction. If I had issues I would be considering the likes of inversion tables, which are a safer alternative to the old fashioned gravity boots where you hang upside down. I'd also be using a reverse hyper machine if I had access to a gym with one.

- The neck is a slightly more complex beast and it seems to me that often attempts to train / rehab it / prehab it often have unintended consequences or are actually counterproductive. Direct neck training, whether by manual pressure or using things like neck harnesses should be explored and personally I found harness work to be a great help. People say things like a bigger and stronger neck is a healthier neck and I agree with that, but equally the problem is that training your neck involves movements that potentially can aggravate existing problems or cause them if you're too eager, needs careful self monitoring. And try to avoid the classic grappler's 'head forward' position with inward shoulder rotation.

Long post but sorry, you did ask, and this is an area I'm interested in. :pac:

Tazzimus

[QUOTE=Black Sheep;104609903John Kavanagh has spoken a little about his neck difficulties[/QUOTE]

That was down to being stacked by a much bigger person he was trying to triangle I believe.

Good general rule of thumb we've been told is try not go for subs where you can be stacked easily if the person is a lot heavier than you.

Lighter, same weight, slightly heavier, grand.
Much heavier, try something else.

Otherwise you'll end up with back pains down the line

badbeatcentral

Black Sheep wrote: »

You can usually safely compress your spine ... Or rotate it... Or even have it exposed to a degree of shear force. Within reasonable loading parameters. But if you are in a position where you have all of these going on, with quite a bit of loading due to a weight discrepancy, then you're going to be in difficulty. This is sometimes why people tweak their back lifting something 'relatively' light. They've just done a heavy deadlift safely, but then hurt themselves putting away a 24kg kettlebel. Why? Maybe they're bending and twisting to get it into an awkward space on a self - compression, rotation and a bit of shear.

Cheers very nice post, all sounds sensible! this bit in particular.

I'm training the 10 planet system so part of our warm-ups includes a double under pass which has your spine compression/rotation/weight trio and it's very easy to see how damage could be done.

I think i'll sit out those set of warm-ups in future.

Black Sheep

It must be said that of course cross faces, snap downs, neck cranks, smash and stack passes etc cannot be avoided if you are a BJJ player. They're part of the sport and lots of people are going to play them. You're never going to be in a position to avoid compromising your spine all of the time, and you obviously don't want to be tapping or giving up passes too early, or indeed sitting stuff out unless you really know it's a bad call for your specific situation. But yeah I do think it's worth knowing this stuff if you want to try to play the long game (literally).

darced

This post has been deleted.

Mellor

Black Sheep wrote: »

Without talking studies, anecdotally I have met enough long term BJJ players to believe that yes, disc issues are fairly common.

Good post BlackSheep. Agree with all of that, a few points that I'd expand on also.

I'm not saying they neck cranks aren't legit techniques but the mechanics of how they work mimics perfectly the mechanism of how a neck injury is thought to occur according to what I think the model is.

A huge problem with joint locks, is that people are often too tough for their own good. People tend to tap to armbars because the potential point of injury is obvious. But with certain submissions you can actually tough out a certain degree of pain/discomfort that's also doing damage.

Fighting through a foot lock, finish training, go home to bed. The next day your ankle is swollen and mobility missing. Be grand in a week. Not ideal, but survivable.
But with the neck, toughing out a stack, or a sub, or a position that's very uncomfortable but not enough to make you tap will do acute and also chronic damage.

I've had a stiff and sore upper spine for the last week. I don't even know why. I think it was a triangle that I spun out of when stacked. I'm mobile enough to pull off the move, but that also meant I was mobile enough to hurt myself compare to the guy who had to let go.

- Foam roll the thoracic spine because you want mobility there. I would not recommend foam rolling the lumbar spine (lower back) or otherwise excessively stretching it out, whether with classic low back stretches or with too much rotational work. It has its place but as opposed to having a low back that tends to hyper mobility you want a strong lower back and core that can generate 'super stiffness' to support the spine when needed.

I regards the spine, I think it's best to differentiate rolling joints and muscles.
Foam rolling the L-Spine vertebrae to mobilise them is a bad idea for the reasons you say. But I don't think it's a bad idea to roll the surrounding muscles to release them. By that I mean creating pressure on the muscles with a roller, or better yet a ball while keeping a neutral L-spine.
It's a subtle distinction, but an important imo.

Do both for T-spine.

...but equally the problem is that training your neck involves movements that potentially can aggravate existing problems or cause them if you're too eager, needs careful self monitoring.

Agreed. Neck and back bridges build very strong backs.
But they will also injure you easily if your back isn't strong enough.

badbeatcentral wrote: »

Cheers very nice post, all sounds sensible! this bit in particular.

I'm training the 10 planet system so part of our warm-ups includes a double under pass which has your spine compression/rotation/weight trio and it's very easy to see how damage could be done.

I think i'll sit out those set of warm-ups in future.

Sitting out with be a bad idea imo. The warm up are there for a reason. You don't get injured during the warm up. It's the double under stack pass during a rolls that you get injured. But skipping that part of the warm up, you are more likely to increase your chances of injury later imo.

laoch na mona

I'll be in Dublin for work on thursday is their any gym I could call into for a class either before 9am or after 4pm, I'll be in the city centre (near Merrion Square) for work so I rather a gym in the centre or near Drumcondra(where i'll be staying)

Subcomandante Marcos

laoch na mona wrote: »

I'll be in Dublin for work on thursday is their any gym I could call into for a class either before 9am or after 4pm, I'll be in the city centre (near Merrion Square) for work so I rather a gym in the centre or near Drumcondra(where i'll be staying)

Jorge Santos on Parnell Street is probably your best bet?

Dave 101

laoch na mona wrote: »

I'll be in Dublin for work on thursday is their any gym I could call into for a class either before 9am or after 4pm, I'll be in the city centre (near Merrion Square) for work so I rather a gym in the centre or near Drumcondra(where i'll be staying)

Jungle bjj in Smithfield
Fantom mma city centre
Balance in drumcondra
Jorge santos bjj city centre

Mellor

Do many of you keep track of your training? Ive been tracking my sessions for this year and not getting as many in as I had thought tbh

MagicIRL

Never tracked it but have really woken up the last week and realised I've been going light for way too long. I got hit with injury / illness / illness / holidays and had to slow everything down to recover.

Now I've realised that I never really brought the level back up. Am training twice a week, aiming to take that back to 4 (5 if I include open mat)

What are you using/doing to track your sessions?

Mellor

I keep a training diary and also log my sessions on https://www.mattime.io/

jerry40

Hi all. Dose any know of any day time classes in limerick city. I work in the city and have a couple of hours off during the day and was hoping to take up a martial art. I have done judo years ago and shotokan karate.
Any kelp please.

TitianGerm

jerry40 wrote: »

Hi all. Dose any know of any day time classes in limerick city. I work in the city and have a couple of hours off during the day and was hoping to take up a martial art. I have done judo years ago and shotokan karate.
Any kelp please.

Limerick BJJ, not sure of class times though.

https://www.facebook.com/LimerickBjjAcademy/

laoch na mona

Mellor wrote: »

Do many of you keep track of your training? Ive been tracking my sessions for this year and not getting as many in as I had thought tbh

started a spreadsheet a few months ago to track my training, I log all my training BJJ/ Muay Thai/ gym sessions

my work schedule changes a fair bit so it helps me make sure I'm getting sessions in