Do you pay your childminder when you take holidays?

WannaBbride · 09-02-2016 1:18pm #1

We have a part-time childminder 2 days a week usually. She does not have formal qualifications. She handed me a letter last night saying when she was taking her own holidays which is grand but then proceeded to say that she will need to be paid her usual daily rate for the following;

-if a day she might have the kids falls on a bank holiday
-if we take holidays ourselves she wants the usual weekly rate

None of this was discussed or specified at the outset.

So is she being unreasonable expecting to be paid when we take holidays considering we are not paying her a salary, a daily rate was agreed and flexibility was agreed at the outside. I am not paying her for bank holidays. I am annoyed she didn't talk to me about it first. We have never paid previous minders for holidays taken by either party.

foodaholic · 09-02-2016 1:23pm

I pay my childminder when I go on holidays. I get paid when I take holidays why shouldn't she

celligraphy · 09-02-2016 1:26pm

Treat her the same way you would a creche pay her every week or risk loosing your place

WannaBbride · 09-02-2016 1:27pm

Is your childminder full time minder?

WannaBbride · 09-02-2016 1:28pm

Because she is part time and I am not paying her a salary. A daily rate was agreed at the outset with no mention of having to pay her for days they are not there.

Aka Ishur · 09-02-2016 1:30pm

Hardly reasonable for her to be out of pocket because you went off on holidays. That would be essentially 10% of her yearly wage taken off her.

endacl · 09-02-2016 1:32pm

Ask to see her tax clearance cert.

If she's so keen on the rules.

WannaBbride · 09-02-2016 1:33pm

This is all cash in hand and she is on the dole too as far as I know.

endacl · 09-02-2016 1:37pm

WannaBbride wrote: »

This is all cash in hand and she is on the dole too as far as I know.

So. Very clear on what she's entitled to? If she's replaceable I'd tell her to jog on. Sounds like she wants the pay and conditions of an employee/employer relationship, when in fact she's an independent contractor. Explain this to her.

I've worked plenty of part time/casual jobs in my time. Never ever got paid for a day I didn't work. And I'd have felt embarrassed asking.

Cork2015! · 09-02-2016 1:43pm

I have actually been wondering about this too lately. Not long back at work after maternity leave and haven't had any holidays yet.

Our childminder minds her 2 or 3 days a week.... very flexible as agreed on both sides

But I have been wondering what to do once a bank holiday or holiday comes up

Is there a middle ground for you maybe? Say for example if she does 2 days a week... and you take a weeks holidays and agree to pay her for 2 day maybe?

mariaalice · 09-02-2016 1:43pm

WannaBbride wrote: »

Because she is part time and I am not paying her a salary. A daily rate was agreed at the outset with no mention of having to pay her for days they are not there.

It is something that should have been discuses at the beginning.

My niece had a child minding job and she had agreed an hourly rate and noting else she quickly ran in to issues if the parents were home say 30 minuets early they would deduct half an hours pay that sort of thing, never offered her money for petrol while expecting my niece to to take the children to school. They also expected the services of a nanny while paying for a child minder.

Needless to say my niece left but not on bad terms, she now has a job as a nanny and is paid more that the starting salary of a primary school teacher and the family are very generous to her.

The important point is that she has a detailed contract of employment with the family so there are no misunderstanding on either side, she is very happy working for the family.

Cork2015! · 09-02-2016 1:43pm

I have actually been wondering about this too lately. Not long back at work after maternity leave and haven't had any holidays yet.

Our childminder minds her 2 or 3 days a week.... very flexible as agreed on both sides

But I have been wondering what to do once a bank holiday or holiday comes up

Is there a middle ground for you maybe? Say for example if she does 2 days a week... and you take a weeks holidays and agree to pay her for 1 day maybe?

Deagol · 09-02-2016 1:49pm

WannaBbride wrote: »

We have a part-time childminder 2 days a week usually. She does not have formal qualifications. She handed me a letter last night saying when she was taking her own holidays which is grand but then proceeded to say that she will need to be paid her usual daily rate for the following;

-if a day she might have the kids falls on a bank holiday
-if we take holidays ourselves she wants the usual weekly rate

None of this was discussed or specified at the outset.

So is she being unreasonable expecting to be paid when we take holidays considering we are not paying her a salary, a daily rate was agreed and flexibility was agreed at the outside. I am not paying her for bank holidays. I am annoyed she didn't talk to me about it first. We have never paid previous minders for holidays taken by either party.

We had a childminder some years ago in Clare who had attended some FAS (or something akin to it, I can't remember details for the pedants) childminding course and tried the same thing on as you are saying above. She claimed it was advise she had been given by the trainer.

Not registered, claiming dole, not paying tax etc etc but wanted all the benefits of an employee. I didn't say a word until I had another child minder found and then we informed her on a Friday that we wouldn't be coming back.

endacl · 09-02-2016 1:53pm

Cork2015! wrote: »

I have actually been wondering about this too lately. Not long back at work after maternity leave and haven't had any holidays yet.

Our childminder minds her 2 or 3 days a week.... very flexible as agreed on both sides

But I have been wondering what to do once a bank holiday or holiday comes up

Is there a middle ground for you maybe? Say for example if she does 2 days a week... and you take a weeks holidays and agree to pay her for 2 day maybe?

No! You're not her employer!

olaola · 09-02-2016 2:22pm

I was minding a kid part time for a few months back, most certainly if the child was sick, or they weren't coming that day, I did not get paid. Equally if I couldn't look after the child due to appt/holidays whatever, I did not get paid. No question of it. TBH I think she's being a bit cheeky! Especially if you're giving her plenty of notice and not just cancelling her at the last minute.

cant26 · 09-02-2016 2:44pm

Yes. My son goes to a childminder three days a week. We have a contract in place that clearly states if we go on holidays we still pay. If she goes on holidays we don't. Same goes for being sick. If my son is sick, we pay. If she is sick we don't.
She is a registered, Garda vetted, first aid trained childminder. If your childminder is on the dole and minding your children she is essentially breaking the law. Sounds like she wants the perks and security of doing it by the book, without doing it by the book!

WannaBbride · 09-02-2016 2:51pm

I have to talk to her this evening and see what she says. I see her as a casual worker and I dont see it as an employer/employee thing.

We can't afford to pay her for days the kids are not there. If she had said these terms at the outset I would have kept looking for someone.

We havent taken an actual holiday in over 5 years, its days off work pretty much and a lot of the time are planned to ease the financial burden of childcare costs if its a 5 week month - not swanning off some where, I wish!

godtabh · 09-02-2016 2:55pm

We pay for our holidays and not hers.

cant26 · 09-02-2016 2:57pm

WannaBbride wrote: »

I have to talk to her this evening and see what she says. I see her as a casual worker and I dont see it as an employer/employee thing.

We can't afford to pay her for days the kids are not there. If she had said these terms at the outset I would have kept looking for someone.

We havent taken an actual holiday in over 5 years, its days off work pretty much and a lot of the time are planned to ease the financial burden of childcare costs if its a 5 week month - not swanning off some where, I wish!

Has she been your children's childminder for long? Strange that she handed you a letter instead of discussing it face to face.

WannaBbride · 09-02-2016 3:01pm

Only about 6 months. We had a chat at the start and she never mentioned any of this before. I was off work over christmas for 2 weeks and it was never mentioned before or after that period of time I took off, so its completely out of the blue.

esforum · 09-02-2016 3:02pm

WannaBbride wrote: »

This is all cash in hand and she is on the dole too as far as I know.

The law isnt something that we can just pick up and discard when needed, she is not entitled to the dole so either shop her or stop employing her and before people say it, theres plenty of stay at home parents that take kids in for extra cash without also deciding to double up with a healthy slice of werlfare

Sunny Dayz · 09-02-2016 3:30pm

WannaBbride wrote: »

I have to talk to her this evening and see what she says. I see her as a casual worker and I dont see it as an employer/employee thing.

OP if she is minding your kids in your home as a childminder - then you are her employer and she is your employee. You should be operating payroll on her wages and she would have rights and entitlements as an employee, including holiday pay and annual leave.

timmy880 · 09-02-2016 3:35pm

WannaBbride wrote: »

This is all cash in hand and she is on the dole too as far as I know.

Well that changes everything. This is not legal and therefore shouldn't be going down the "it's my right to get paid when you take holidays" road...

My fiance minds kids for 20 hours a week and gets paid hourly cash in hand and agreed holiday days. She is registered for tax by the family in question and everything is legal. But if you're paying someone who is also on the dole then its all a bit of a mess and really I'd get rid, especially now that they are throwing their weight around.

Moonbeam · 09-02-2016 3:36pm

WannaBbride wrote: »

We have a part-time childminder 2 days a week usually. She does not have formal qualifications. She handed me a letter last night saying when she was taking her own holidays which is grand but then proceeded to say that she will need to be paid her usual daily rate for the following;

-if a day she might have the kids falls on a bank holiday
-if we take holidays ourselves she wants the usual weekly rate

None of this was discussed or specified at the outset.

So is she being unreasonable expecting to be paid when we take holidays considering we are not paying her a salary, a daily rate was agreed and flexibility was agreed at the outside. I am not paying her for bank holidays. I am annoyed she didn't talk to me about it first. We have never paid previous minders for holidays taken by either party.

That would be perfectly normal.

You don't pay her for days she takes off but you do for days that you take. I would not even think twice about paying for bank holidays I would be of the opinion of course I do.
The only exception to this is if it is a very casual childminding agreement and she only has her the odd day here and there.

bigpink · 09-02-2016 3:37pm

timmy880 wrote: »

Well that changes everything. This is not legal and therefore shouldn't be going down the "it's my right to get paid when you take holidays" road...

My fiance minds kids for 20 hours a week and gets paid hourly cash in hand and agreed holiday days. She is registered for tax by the family in question and everything is legal. But if you're paying someone who is also on the dole then its all a bit of a mess and really I'd get rid, especially now that they are throwing their weight around.

But she gets holidays and employee rights.As said if on dole tell em jog on

Moonbeam · 09-02-2016 3:38pm

endacl wrote: »

Ask to see her tax clearance cert.

If she's so keen on the rules.

Not a bad idea but you will find alot of child minders are Tax compliant as if they earn under 15k they only pay a fixed rate of PRSI.
There is a tax exemption in place but you still need to file tax returns.

Moonbeam · 09-02-2016 3:40pm

WannaBbride wrote: »

This is all cash in hand and she is on the dole too as far as I know.

Is she insured etc?
Are you happy with this set up?

Ring childminding Ireland www.childminding.ie if you need guidelines.

WannaBbride · 09-02-2016 3:42pm

It's in her home.

mirrorwall14 · 09-02-2016 3:43pm

I don't pay my childminder for holidays or bank holidays but I specifically sought a childminder for school term days only and it was clear at the outset. She is not minding him in my own home so I am not her employer and it works perfectly for us because she wants to be with her own children during holidays

lazygal · 09-02-2016 4:04pm

We have done the minder in our home and had ours with a minder in her home.
When we sent them to the minder's home we always offered to pay when we took holidays, sometimes she accepted the money, sometimes she insisted we take some or all of it back. When a week was a bank holiday or we kept them out we still paid the full week. It was up to her to sort out her tax.

When we have a minder come to our home she is our employee, we registed with the revenue and sort out her tax arrangements. She builds up holiday pay but I also pay if we take holidays. EG, we're going away in August, she'll be paid, but if she wants to take a day or week off it'll depend on how much holiday time she's accrued. Once a person is working in your home for more than €40 a week they are regarded as your employee and the rights and responsibilties kick in from there.

When I minded children I was always paid when the children were kept home or on holidays or for a week with a bank holiday. If I needed a day off it was on my own expense. I had a couple of casual mindees who paid me the day rates and they never had to pay anything above that.

martinr5232 · 09-02-2016 4:07pm

Sunny Dayz wrote:

OP if she is minding your kids in your home as a childminder - then you are her employer and she is your employee. You should be operating payroll on her wages and she would have rights and entitlements as an employee, including holiday pay and annual leave.

That is exactly how it works and i know because i learnt it the hard way.

If you have an aggrement in place if she is minding them in her own house before hand that is another matter but if it wasnt agreed tell her to jog on shes chancing her arm.

Do you pay your childminder when you take holidays?

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