Luas strike general thread (mandatory: read warning in post #1)

Saint Sonner

listermint wrote: »

If Transdev said tomorrow morning they are starting a hiring spree, the public would be right behind it.

That is 100% a fact.

Why don't they then? - i'd be behind it!

cdebru

listermint wrote: »

If Transdev said tomorrow morning they are starting a hiring spree, the public would be right behind it.

That is 100% a fact.

I wouldn't be so sure, all it would do is further inflame things, the only way this is going to be resolved is talking, the company probably think they can soften their cough by letting them hang for a while racking up lost wages and bonuses.

listermint

Saint Sonner wrote: »

Why don't they then? - i'd be behind it!

No idea, im not transdev

listermint

cdebru wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure, all it would do is further inflame things, the only way this is going to be resolved is talking, the company probably think they can soften their cough by letting them hang for a while racking up lost wages and bonuses.

inflame what? these bunch of jokers are holding the city to ransom for nothing.


Its already inflamed, call their bluff.

cdebru

n97 mini wrote: »

The operators have enough time to bring in contractors and get them trained up in time for Easter. Or conversely, the Army could cover it as I'm sure they won't all be taking part in the 1916 commemorations.

All you would do is inflame the issue, I can't imagine the state would be on for taking on the unions, when they know there are more claims particularly from public sector unionised workers in the pipeline. The state probably needs to get back to collective bargaining if they have any chance of stopping the domino effect.

listermint

cdebru wrote: »

All you would do is inflame the issue, I can't imagine the state would be on for taking on the unions, when they know there are more claims particularly from public sector unionised workers in the pipeline. The state probably needs to get back to collective bargaining if they have any chance of stopping the domino effect.

The State ? The other Unions ?


There is no public appetite for these demands, Id imagine if you asked other Siptu workers they'd laugh at these fellas too.

This action is ring fenced. These lads are ridiculous they need to cop and and wise up.

end of the road

n97 mini wrote: »

The operators have enough time to bring in contractors and get them trained up in time for Easter. Or conversely, the Army could cover it as I'm sure they won't all be taking part in the 1916 commemorations.

not only do the army have better things to do, but what do you think training up contractors is going to do?

listermint wrote: »

inflame what?

the situation maybe?

listermint wrote: »

these bunch of jokers are holding the city to ransom

no they aren't. having to get the bus or take the car while not ideal is not "holding the city to ransom"

listermint wrote: »

Its already inflamed, call their bluff.

call what bluff..

devnull

Hats off to the driver of the LUAS last night who decided he would get into Stephens Green and wait in his cab for 5 minutes, before switching to the other end, who upon being asked why the delay he said "personal break" It was the Brides Glen tram as well and many people were left behind and the display showed

Brides Glen Due
Sandyford 1
Brides Glen 2

Because of the delay

Rakish Paddy

Is there any way TransDev could legally dismiss all of the current drivers for their actions (or lack of action)?

GM228

Rakish Paddy wrote: »

Is there any way TransDev could legally dismiss all of the current drivers for their actions (or lack of action)?

Legally an employer can dismiss staff for striking yes, but it would have to be all staff taking part.

dublinbusdude

With Luas Drivers on strike now on Easter Sunday & Monday; will Dublin Bus will change the Sunday service to an Saturday service so people can get in & out of the City for the Easter Rising Centenary on both days???

Rakish Paddy

GM228 wrote: »

Legally an employer can dismiss staff for striking yes, but it would have to be all staff taking part.

So what's to stop TransDev training up a new lot of drivers who are willing to sign contracts to accept the already pretty decent salary on offer, and then let all the SIPTU drivers go? Other than the cost of training new drivers I suppose.

This series of official strikes and unofficial fecking about seems to have really annoyed the general commuting public (with near zero public support as far as I can see) and put quite a dent in the Luas brand that was always a pretty reliable and frequent means of transport. I imagine some damage control from the company will be needed soon.

Brendan Bendar

dublinbusdude wrote: »

With Luas Drivers on strike now on Easter Sunday & Monday; will Dublin Bus will change the Sunday service to an Saturday service so people can get in & out of the City for the Easter Rising Centenary on both days???

Doubt it .

Dublin Bus staff would hardly welcome that?

dublinbusdude

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Doubt it .

Dublin Bus staff would hardly welcome that?

Just a through! Dublin Bus would be happy with the extra monies!

Brendan Bendar

dublinbusdude wrote: »

Just a through! Dublin Bus would be happy with the extra monies!

I'm sure they would, but could they bring the workforce along with them.

Especially given the reason why.

Just my opinion though.

GM228

Rakish Paddy wrote: »

So what's to stop TransDev training up a new lot of drivers who are willing to sign contracts to accept the already pretty decent salary on offer, and then let all the SIPTU drivers go? Other than the cost of training new drivers I suppose.

Absolutely nothing, but what would the public think of there being no tram service for months or longer whilst a recruitment drive is set up, staff are recruited, trained etc?

Also despite been legal to do no doubt there would be many legal challenges by the unions and the staff which would delay things indefinitely.

It may be legal to do, but not practical or realistic.

If the public get fed up with no tram for a day or two how would they feel about a few months at least?

n97 mini

end of the road wrote: »

not only do the army have better things to do,

They don't. We have 7,500 and we're not at war. If the event of flooding the army is sent in, so we can spare a few.

end of the road wrote: »

but what do you think training up contractors is going to do?

What do you think! Drive trams.

end of the road wrote: »

no they aren't. having to get the bus or take the car while not ideal is not "holding the city to ransom"

Next you'll be telling people to get taxis, which I think you did before.

n97 mini

cdebru wrote: »

All you would do is inflame the issue, I can't imagine the state would be on for taking on the unions,

I don't give a flying fsck. The tail is wagging the dog, again, and I happily burn it off.

CramCycle

How long does training for the LUAS take?

Taco Chips

I would rather see the Luas not run for a few weeks while they train in new drivers rather than give into these outrageous demands and see an inevitable rise in fares to offset the costs.

Peppa Pig

From the indo article

It said the unofficial action had stopped, so it was deeply regrettable that notice of the Easter strikes had been served.

Has the diarrhoea cleared up or has the work to rule stopped?
Or, more likely, have SIPTU backed down after Transdev's threats to dock pay?

foggy_lad

devnull wrote: »

Hats off to the driver of the LUAS last night who decided he would get into Stephens Green and wait in his cab for 5 minutes, before switching to the other end, who upon being asked why the delay he said "personal break" It was the Brides Glen tram as well and many people were left behind and the display showed

Brides Glen Due
Sandyford 1
Brides Glen 2

Because of the delay

Aren't those personal breaks for going to the toilet? did he drop a log on the floor of the cab?

Brendan Bendar

foggy_lad wrote: »

Aren't those personal breaks for going to the toilet? did he drop a log on the floor of the cab?

Brìd Smith is four square behind these guys.

This is what you voted for.

end of the road

n97 mini wrote: »

They don't. We have 7,500 and we're not at war. If the event of flooding the army is sent in, so we can spare a few.

they have their training, various leave, a number will or could be sent on peace keeping missions. i would say they indeed do have better things to do then driving a tram.

n97 mini wrote: »

Next you'll be telling people to get taxis, which I think you did before.

i did and i stand buy it.

Halpenny

CramCycle wrote: »

How long does training for the LUAS take?

I seem to remember someone on this thread saying training was 6 weeks ... would have to check that though plus don't know how accurate they were being.

Grandeeod

end of the road wrote: »

i did and i stand buy it.

Only you could stand by nonsense like that.

dublindiehard

A genuine question, how long does it take to walk from one end of the tram to the other? I haven't seen anyone do it in under 6-7 minutes this week.

I've only been using the Green Line the last three days and the service is diabolical. A tram pulls in to St Stephens Green, already being due to leave,, driver sits in his cab for a few minutes, waits for tram to pull in alongside him, has a chat with the driver at the rear of the train, and walks VERY SLOWLY to the front of the tram and leaves.

The last three nights running I've seen Two trams in SSG with another tram waiting just before the Junction of St Stephens Green because of this carry on. Cue two trams leave SSG one after another and following each other almost back to front. Then normally the overcrowding on the first one is so bad that it runs late, which in turn delays the second tram even further, and then a third tram joins the convoy.

Brendan Bendar

dublindiehard wrote: »

A genuine question, how long does it take to walk from one end of the tram to the other? I haven't seen anyone do it in under 6-7 minutes this week.

I've only been using the Green Line the last three days and the service is diabolical. A tram pulls in to St Stephens Green, already being due to leave,, driver sits in his cab for a few minutes, waits for tram to pull in alongside him, has a chat with the driver at the rear of the train, and walks VERY SLOWLY to the front of the tram and leaves.

The last three nights running I've seen Two trams in SSG with another tram waiting just before the Junction of St Stephens Green because of this carry on. Cue two trams leave SSG one after another and following each other almost back to front. Then normally the overcrowding on the first one is so bad that it runs late, which in turn delays the second tram even further, and then a third tram joins the convoy.

This is what you voted for, no sympathy whatsoever.

dublindiehard

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

This is what you voted for, no sympathy whatsoever.

Actually I didn't, I voted FG.

Cookie_Monster

The company says that from Sunday morning, it is setting a limit of three toilet breaks in any 24-hour period, saying it gives more than ample scope for genuine cases over the course of the working day.

While I don't agree with the strike at all the above outrageous.
That amounts to the company telling employees they are not allowed drink a healthy amount of water a day as it (obviously) will require toilet breaks. 4l of water a day requires a lot more than 3 trips to the toilet.

n97 mini

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

While I don't agree with the strike at all the above outrageous.
That amounts to the company telling employees they are not allowed drink a healthy amount of water a day as it (obviously) will require toilet breaks. 4l of water a day requires a lot more than 3 trips to the toilet.

Employees don't work for 24 hours straight though. They can drink as much as they want when they're not at work.

Grandeeod

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

While I don't agree with the strike at all the above outrageous.
That amounts to the company telling employees they are not allowed drink a healthy amount of water a day as it (obviously) will require toilet breaks. 4l of water a day requires a lot more than 3 trips to the toilet.

Read it again.:rolleyes:

Taco Chips

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

While I don't agree with the strike at all the above outrageous.
That amounts to the company telling employees they are not allowed drink a healthy amount of water a day as it (obviously) will require toilet breaks. 4l of water a day requires a lot more than 3 trips to the toilet.

There's no "healthy amount" of water to drink that is supported by consistent medical evidence. You should drink when you're thirsty and don't overload on fluids in one sitting. 3 toilet breaks in a shift is extremely reasonable. Are we in primary school?

cdebru

n97 mini wrote: »

I don't give a flying fsck. The tail is wagging the dog, again, and I happily burn it off.

I know you don't but some people reside in the real world, where burning off a tail would be considered cruel and stupid.

cdebru

dublinbusdude wrote: »

With Luas Drivers on strike now on Easter Sunday & Monday; will Dublin Bus will change the Sunday service to an Saturday service so people can get in & out of the City for the Easter Rising Centenary on both days???

no

cdebru

listermint wrote: »

The State ? The other Unions ?


There is no public appetite for these demands, Id imagine if you asked other Siptu workers they'd laugh at these fellas too.

This action is ring fenced. These lads are ridiculous they need to cop and and wise up.

whether you agree or not with the pay demands other unions and other union members would know that if they got away with that crack on this strike it would be merely a matter of time before it was used again and again and became standard practise for dealing with industrial disputes. So no I can't see siptu or the rest of the ICTU standing by and allowing their members to be sacked and scabs to be taken on to do their work.

Besides it is not going to happen.

dublinbusdude

Going to be fun now! DART drivers to vote to go on strike on the same weekend!

trellheim

Any old ****e wha' "cuz we've got them over a barrel, dey have to do something like"

Another fine page from Negotiating 101

Cookie_Monster

Grandeeod wrote: »

Read it again.:rolleyes:

why? what part do you think I don't get?
I realise a shift is probably only around 8 of those 24 but that's totally irrelevant to the overall context.

taco chips wrote:

There's no "healthy amount" of water to drink that is supported by consistent medical evidence.

there's a broad consensus of 2l minimum anyway. goole it for as many sources as you care to find.

taco chips wrote:

Are we in primary school?

clearly, if the company feel they need to enforce such a draconian rule just to get back at striking staff.

n97 mini wrote:

They can drink as much as they want when they're not at work.

you should be consuming fluids at a consistent pace over the course of the day, not going long periods without...
proven to help concentration levels too if you are properly hydrated so surely that's a good thing driving a tram

It shouldn't be an issue anyway as termini have toilet access and it's 2 minutes between runs when staff generally aren't doing anything anyway. It's just completely unreasonable to enforce such a rule.

RoyalCelt

I wish transdev could fire all their workers and recruit new ones. It makes my blood boil these lads get paid so much for such a handy job and they go on strike. All the jobless people and all the emigrants and these clowns think they deserve more.

The best thing about the recession was over paid people getting put back in line yet here we have these wanted a ridiculous pay increase. If transdev were swimming in profits I'd agree but they're not. Down with this sort of thing.

Infini

dublinbusdude wrote: »

Going to be fun now! DART drivers to vote to go on strike on the same weekend!

No theyre not. They're only striking if Franks tries forcing the 10min service in without agreement of the drivers and theres no plans of that before april 10th.

cdebru wrote: »

All you would do is inflame the issue, I can't imagine the state would be on for taking on the unions, when they know there are more claims particularly from public sector unionised workers in the pipeline. The state probably needs to get back to collective bargaining if they have any chance of stopping the domino effect.

Yeah the whole things the result of the collective barganing going out the window and thus we revert to a free for all where its every man for themselves.

As for those thinking that transdev should "hire" more workers to undermine the drivers dispute? Thats only gonna escalate things even further. People need to be talking trying to threaten or playing dirty is exactly what turns things ugly.

LuckyLloyd

RoyalCelt wrote: »

I wish transdev could fire all their workers and recruit new ones. It makes my blood boil these lads get paid so much for such a handy job and they go on strike. All the jobless people and all the emigrants and these clowns think they deserve more.

The best thing about the recession was over paid people getting put back in line yet here we have these wanted a ridiculous pay increase. If transdev were swimming in profits I'd agree but they're not. Down with this sort of thing.

The LUAS (a non complex, two track and over demand dedicated light rail transport) is swimming in profit. That Transdev are running at a loss in that context is utterly ridiculous. This strike is about more than pay - it is highlighting fundamental flaws in the tendering process.

The failure of Transdev to even begin discussion is also increasingly incorrect.

Brendan Bendar

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The LUAS (a non complex, two track and over demand dedicated light rail transport) is swimming in profit. That Transdev are running at a loss in that context is utterly ridiculous. This strike is about more than pay - it is highlighting fundamental flaws in the tendering process.

The failure of Transdev to even begin discussion is also increasingly incorrect.

Well Kieran Mulvey doesn't seem to think that under the circumstances there is any basis for talks either.

Looks like some more sensible heads are emerging from the Luas workers at last and the more conflict thirsty people are beginning to realise they have little public support for what seems on paper a very spurious claim.

PeadarCo

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The LUAS (a non complex, two track and over demand dedicated light rail transport) is swimming in profit. That Transdev are running at a loss in that context is utterly ridiculous. This strike is about more than pay - it is highlighting fundamental flaws in the tendering process.

The failure of Transdev to even begin discussion is also increasingly incorrect.

To be honest the whole thing shows how great the tendering process is and why it should be replicated across the public transport network. It makes sure the LUAS is run efficiently. It exposes the LUAS drivers and unions to competitive forces thereby ensuring the taxpayer that their getting value for money.

The profit that the LUAS is making can be put to repaying the upfront of building the line and helping out actual vulnerable people i.e. the homeless, our creaking healthcare system, education system the list could go and on. Basically the people who years ago unions when unions were interested in helping the vulnerable spent their time standing up for.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Brendan Bendar wrote:

This is what you voted for, no sympathy whatsoever.

Brendan Bendar wrote:

This is what you voted for.

Why do you keep repeating this. It contains as much logic as a stick.

n97 mini wrote:

They don't. We have 7,500 and we're not at war. If the event of flooding the army is sent in, so we can spare a few.

You want the army to drive trams? Should they wear dpm or number 1's.

Lol, why would the army drive the trams? "because we have 7,500 of them" isn't an answer.

Pity we didn't invest in a better cycling infrastructure. Cycle tracks don't go on strike

n97 mini

The pro-strike types on this thread keep telling us that by hiring in someone else to do the job and undermine the strike would "only make things worse". Has this ever been done in Ireland? I don't believe it has, so we have no experience to go on.

Most people will be familiar with how Ronald Reagan dealt with the air traffic controllers. His action was very successful and within a very short time everything was moving again.

Heidi Echoing Varnish wrote: »

You want the army to drive trams? Should they wear dpm or number 1's.

Lol, why would the army drive the trams? "because we have 7,500 of them" isn't an answer.

That's a fairly dim response. There is a long history of armed forces providing cover during strikes.

oppenheimer1

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The LUAS (a non complex, two track and over demand dedicated light rail transport) is swimming in profit. That Transdev are running at a loss in that context is utterly ridiculous. This strike is about more than pay - it is highlighting fundamental flaws in the tendering process.

The failure of Transdev to even begin discussion is also increasingly incorrect.

The ticket fares generated by Luas go straight to TII. What transdev get paid is set out in their contract to provide the service with TII.

Essentially what you're saying is only the staff should profit from the Luas, even though it was the state made the investment and built the system?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

n97 mini wrote: »

That's a fairly dim response. There is a long history of armed forces providing cover during strikes.

Could you provide some examples of this maybe?

I didn't realise that working in the private sector during a strike was a role of the Irish Army.

trellheim

Could you provide some examples of this maybe?

I didn't realise that working in the private sector during a strike was a role of the Irish Army.

The Defence Forces will carry out tasks, as ordered. Aid to Civil power is a defined role.

cardinal tetra

One of the journalists covering the story has said the drivers have gone to the union today insisting on a 68% increase to cover the cost of the strikes and bonus they lost out on due to the strikes.

Shut it down. shut the whole thing down. I'll walk.