Sunderland vs Manchester United 13/2/16 k/o 12.45 BT 1.

niallo27

It's a bit sad to see such a great club reduced to this.

irishguitarlad

irishguitarlad wrote: »

Big Sam and LVG equals the death of football.

Usually you would think so, but it wasn't that bad of a game from an objective point of view.

PhlegmyMoses

Andersonisgod wrote: »

It is a scary partnership but I can't believe there are actually people who believe De Gea is better than Neuer, this proves 3 things.
1. That some Manchester United fans who wear those red goggles can only see 1 team playing football.
2. None of these people watch Neuer each week, or even once every couple weeks.
3. The Premier League hype machine is a scary, strong thing.

DDG is world class and there is not much between him and Neuer. It's not crazy for fans of United to hold him in such high regard. The only thing these posts prove is that you have ludicrous opinions about football. But everybody knew that already.

LuckyGent88

Think that's top4 gone for us now. Absolute shambles of a performance.

Fair play to Sunderland. Wanted the 3 points more and got them. Fully deserved.

Liam McPoyle

niallo27 wrote: »

It's a bit sad to see such a great club reduced to this.

Turtyturd

Boom!!

A draw against Sunderland doesn't look so bad now.

Game looked to like there was only going to be one outcome in the second half but Sunderland were the much better team in the second half. Well deserved win.

Great winner from 'Big Dave' too.

That_Guy

niallo27 wrote: »

It's a bit sad to see such a great club reduced to this.

Let's be fair. Sunderland were never a great club....

monkey9

Business Cat wrote: »

If you were him would you want to?

I wouldn't think so anyway.

The worst thing is we are probably stuck with him for the season at the very least.

He'd have nothing to lose in regards to this season anyway because he wouldn't be any worse than LVG. And it gives him time to settle in and target the players he wants in the summer.

He also has the ego to believe he can get Man U back to the top. There's actually no doubt in my mind that he'll be the next manager.

Canadel

I doubt most of that Utd team even know that O'Shea played for them, or that he has 5 premier league medals and a champions league winner's medal, something most of them can only dream of at this stage.

jive

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

DDG is world class and there is not much between him and Neuer. It's not crazy for fans of United to hold him in such high regard. The only thing these posts prove is that you have ludicrous opinions about football. But everybody knew that already.

Pretty much this. There's a handful of top keepers and you could flip a coin between the lot of them, Neuer is widely accepted as the best but the difference is negligible.

Andre 3000

On the plus side, Martial is continuing to prove me wrong. He's turning into a very nice player indeed. He may one day prove worthy of his transfer fee, certainly going about it the right way now. He's definitely one of the few helping Van Gaal's cause for staying at Old Trafford that's for sure.

Cracking result.

Utds title challenge over now and top 4 could be nearly over soon too.

Sunderland to escape again!

Rayne Wooney

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Cracking result.

Utds title challenge over now and top 4 could be nearly over soon too.

Sunderland to escape again!

The title challenge was over the day we appointed Van Gaal it looks like

He's never going to win another league title again

5starpool

Business Cat wrote: »

If you were him would you want to?

I wouldn't think so anyway.

The worst thing is we are probably stuck with him for the season at the very least.

In fairness at this stage it is nearly a free few months for him as the expectation is that utd won't finish top 4 (although there are still enough games left if they were to hit a run of form and the lift that a new manager might give).

If he was to come in now it might shorten the time the team needs to gel for him next season, with the obvious exception of new transfers of course.

If he is coming in I think it is much better to do it now than wait.

Andersonisgod

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

DDG is world class and there is not much between him and Neuer. It's not crazy for fans of United to hold him in such high regard. The only thing these posts prove is that you have ludicrous opinions about football. But everybody knew that already.

Why? I mean seriously what's he done and who are you comparing him to? You say he's world class and that he's close to Neuer (who I'm assuming you only watch during the odd CL game and international tournaments) the truth is Neuer is a long way ahead of any goalkeeper, he's a keeper of the future, probably a prototype of what all modern top keepers will need to be.

The truth about De Gea is that he is an excellent goalkeeper, he's done brilliant to gain the kind of confidence that he has, he's adjusted his body type, he's gained the confidence of those around him. However while you are comparing him to Neuer, he's more in league with Keylor Navas and Claudio Bravo, who are two fantastic keepers who are not Spanish and not playing in England thus are far less likely to get the kind of hype that De Gea does. Unfortunately names matter and De Gea is a famous name and that impedes correct judgement of him. Manuel Neuer is something else entirely.

By the way I like that you've attacked me at the end there. You know why my opinions seem ludicrous to you? Because I watch things outside of the top tier of English football so I've got a far broader scope to Base my opinions on. Sky Sports will tell you that De Gea is the best around because it is in their interest that you believe that De Gea is the best around. It's a lie.

Iused2likebusts

Utd had a chance to put pressure on city with a win today. As city have a blank due to carling cup next round of fixtures. Congrats Leicester top 4 is surely nailed on now. Bar martial and ddg there is little or no quality in the Utd team so it's no real surprise if they miss out on top 4. Spurs city and arsenal have better players and Leicester are having a season where everything clicks.

sligeach

astonaidan wrote: »

Who would have thought it would be a goalie that would bring us together :pac:

Its similar to how Mignolet was rated so high in the Sunderland team a few years ago.
For me De Gea is one of the top maybe 7 goalies, but I dont have him as the best. Right now their is 5 goalies in the league in Cech, Lloris, De Gea, Hart and Courtois
Id have Courtois and De Gea 1 & 2 but the drop to the others isnt massive, which I think we will see next year if United get CL and Spurs dont cause Lloris is the obvious replacement for De Gea
I do however not think Neuer is the best ever, Id still give that to Buffon or Uniteds own Big Dane or Kahn, but in last 3/4 years hes been best

Jack Butland definitely deserves a place on that list.

Andersonisgod

sligeach wrote: »

Jack Butland definitely deserves a place on that list.

Looks a talent though his kicking is really mediocre.

deaddonkey15

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Why? I mean seriously what's he done and who are you comparing him to? You say he's world class and that he's close to Neuer (who I'm assuming you only watch during the odd CL game and international tournaments) the truth is Neuer is a long way ahead of any goalkeeper, he's a keeper of the future, probably a prototype of what all modern top keepers will need to be.

The truth about De Gea is that he is an excellent goalkeeper, he's done brilliant to gain the kind of confidence that he has, he's adjusted his body type, he's gained the confidence of those around him. However while you are comparing him to Neuer, he's more in league with Keylor Navas and Claudio Bravo, who are two fantastic keepers who are not Spanish and not playing in England thus are far less likely to get the kind of hype that De Gea does. Unfortunately names matter and De Gea is a famous name and that impedes correct judgement of him. Manuel Neuer is something else entirely.

By the way I like that you've attacked me at the end there. You know why my opinions seem ludicrous to you? Because I watch things outside of the top tier of English football so I've got a far broader scope to Base my opinions on. Sky Sports will tell you that De Gea is the best around because it is in their interest that you believe that De Gea is the best around. It's a lie.

Strange that Real Madrid would try so hard to replace their keeper with another one at roughly the same level.

astonaidan

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

DDG is world class and there is not much between him and Neuer. It's not crazy for fans of United to hold him in such high regard. The only thing these posts prove is that you have ludicrous opinions about football. But everybody knew that already.

Dont think anyone said he wasnt world class, but their is quiet a gap between Neuer and everyone else, I personally dont think its just United fans who think hes the best, but its generally premier league fans.

Andersonisgod

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Strange that Real Madrid would try so hard to replace their keeper with another one at roughly the same level.

That you even say that shows how little your really know outside of Manchester United.

It's not about keeper quality, there's practically nothing between Navas (who is having a storming season at Madrid) and De Gea. Real Madrid want the Spanish number 1 to be their goalkeeper. It's important to them as a symbol, it's also important because De Gea is far more marketable than Navas. The Real Madrid fans let their feelings be known on the matter, they were more than happy to keep Navas, chanting for him and also not voting very enthusiastically in favour of De Gea is newspaper polls (which clubs in Spain do pay attention to). By bringing in De Gea they aren't really upgrading on the pitch, they know it and their fans certainly know it, but it's about image, symbolism, marketability, in short, it's a Perez Galactico signing.

PhlegmyMoses

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Why? I mean seriously what's he done and who are you comparing him to? You say he's world class and that he's close to Neuer (who I'm assuming you only watch during the odd CL game and international tournaments) the truth is Neuer is a long way ahead of any goalkeeper, he's a keeper of the future, probably a prototype of what all modern top keepers will need to be.

The truth about De Gea is that he is an excellent goalkeeper, he's done brilliant to gain the kind of confidence that he has, he's adjusted his body type, he's gained the confidence of those around him. However while you are comparing him to Neuer, he's more in league with Keylor Navas and Claudio Bravo, who are two fantastic keepers who are not Spanish and not playing in England thus are far less likely to get the kind of hype that De Gea does. Unfortunately names matter and De Gea is a famous name and that impedes correct judgement of him. Manuel Neuer is something else entirely.

By the way I like that you've attacked me at the end there. You know why my opinions seem ludicrous to you? Because I watch things outside of the top tier of English football so I've got a far broader scope to Base my opinions on. Sky Sports will tell you that De Gea is the best around because it is in their interest that you believe that De Gea is the best around. It's a lie.

Lol

astonaidan

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Why? I mean seriously what's he done and who are you comparing him to? You say he's world class and that he's close to Neuer (who I'm assuming you only watch during the odd CL game and international tournaments) the truth is Neuer is a long way ahead of any goalkeeper, he's a keeper of the future, probably a prototype of what all modern top keepers will need to be.

The truth about De Gea is that he is an excellent goalkeeper, he's done brilliant to gain the kind of confidence that he has, he's adjusted his body type, he's gained the confidence of those around him. However while you are comparing him to Neuer, he's more in league with Keylor Navas and Claudio Bravo, who are two fantastic keepers who are not Spanish and not playing in England thus are far less likely to get the kind of hype that De Gea does. Unfortunately names matter and De Gea is a famous name and that impedes correct judgement of him. Manuel Neuer is something else entirely.

By the way I like that you've attacked me at the end there. You know why my opinions seem ludicrous to you? Because I watch things outside of the top tier of English football so I've got a far broader scope to Base my opinions on. Sky Sports will tell you that De Gea is the best around because it is in their interest that you believe that De Gea is the best around. It's a lie.

Id have DDG ahead of the two from El Classico tbh, I like Bravo their is just something about him that never convinces me, I think once Ter Stegen gets a full grasp on Spanish he will come in for Barca. Navas is in a no win situation hes not quiet as talented as DDG and hes not Spanish and well, Madrid and Spain no 1 is something thats going to happen

eagle eye

Andersonisgod wrote: »

It is a scary partnership but I can't believe there are actually people who believe De Gea is better than Neuer, this proves 3 things.
1. That some Manchester United fans who wear those red goggles can only see 1 team playing football.
2. None of these people watch Neuer each week, or even once every couple weeks.
3. The Premier League hype machine is a scary, strong thing.

Explain why Neuer is better. Where is it that he is better than De Gea?

I'm not a United fan and I'm not picking which is better but if you are going to come out with reasons like that then go and put up the argument why Neuer is better.

Let's see you compare their abilities.

Andersonisgod

astonaidan wrote: »

Id have DDG ahead of the two from El Classico tbh, I like Bravo their is just something about him that never convinces me, I think once Ter Stegen gets a full grasp on Spanish he will come in for Barca. Navas is in a no win situation hes not quiet as talented as DDG and hes not Spanish and well, Madrid and Spain no 1 is something thats going to happen

Honestly I'm not so sure, I think you could make an argument for any of the three of them over the other, the difference really is splitting hairs almost. I have no doubt though that it is De Gea who will be Madrid number one because the Madrid/Spanish number 1 thing is too great a lure for Perez.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Why? I mean seriously what's he done and who are you comparing him to? You say he's world class and that he's close to Neuer (who I'm assuming you only watch during the odd CL game and international tournaments) the truth is Neuer is a long way ahead of any goalkeeper, he's a keeper of the future, probably a prototype of what all modern top keepers will need to be.

The truth about De Gea is that he is an excellent goalkeeper, he's done brilliant to gain the kind of confidence that he has, he's adjusted his body type, he's gained the confidence of those around him. However while you are comparing him to Neuer, he's more in league with Keylor Navas and Claudio Bravo, who are two fantastic keepers who are not Spanish and not playing in England thus are far less likely to get the kind of hype that De Gea does. Unfortunately names matter and De Gea is a famous name and that impedes correct judgement of him. Manuel Neuer is something else entirely.

By the way I like that you've attacked me at the end there. You know why my opinions seem ludicrous to you? Because I watch things outside of the top tier of English football so I've got a far broader scope to Base my opinions on. Sky Sports will tell you that De Gea is the best around because it is in their interest that you believe that De Gea is the best around. It's a lie.

Wrong.

deaddonkey15

eagle eye wrote: »

Explain why Neuer is better. Where is it that he is better than De Gea?

I'm not a United fan and I'm not picking which is better but if you are going to come out with reasons like that then go and put up the argument why Neuer is better.

Let's see you compare their abilities.

+1 on this. A few comments talking about a "gap" between Neuer and every other keeper. What is this gap exactly? Sweeper keeper vines?

PhlegmyMoses

eagle eye wrote: »

Explain why Neuer is better. Where is it that he is better than De Gea?

I'm not a United fan and I'm not picking which is better but if you are going to come out with reasons like that then go and put up the argument why Neuer is better.

Let's see you compare their abilities.

You won't understand even if he does pal. He has transcended all of us boardsies because he watched a Bayern Munich game last week. We don't have the same analysis skills.

Reality: They are really close in ability and any kind of armchair analysis saying one is miles away from the other is just horse**** football pseudo-intellectualism wrapped up as reasoned opinion.

Chancer3001

Mainly comes from people who only see neuur play in the knockout stages of the champions league.

They probably see him 5 times a season

Chancer3001

Mainly comes from people who only see neuur play in the knockout stages of the champions league.

They probably see him 5 times a season

astonaidan

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Honestly I'm not so sure, I think you could make an argument for any of the three of them over the other, the difference really is splitting hairs almost. I have no doubt though that it is De Gea who will be Madrid number one because the Madrid/Spanish number 1 thing is too great a lure for Perez.

I think where Id have DDG over them is he would be more confident under a high ball, which is funny cause I thought it was a weakness when he signed, everywhere else Id have them much for the same. DDG is a much bigger man and has had to learn this aerial ability that the others havent encountered as much. Obviously Neuer encounters this style in Bundesliga as I find it is much more diverse than Spain style wise, another reason Id have him above DDG

Liam McPoyle

eagle eye wrote: »

Explain why Neuer is better. Where is it that he is better than De Gea?

I'm not a United fan and I'm not picking which is better but if you are going to come out with reasons like that then go and put up the argument why Neuer is better.

Let's see you compare their abilities.

Don't you know how the soccer forum works?

What AIG says is fact.

Anyone that disagrees with him is wrong.

Do try and keep up!

Andersonisgod

eagle eye wrote: »

Explain why Neuer is better. Where is it that he is better than De Gea?

I'm not a United fan and I'm not picking which is better but if you are going to come out with reasons like that then go and put up the argument why Neuer is better.

Let's see you compare their abilities.

Compare in what way? This isn't Fifa, I'm not going to create stats for each. All you need do is watch Neuer, he's got everything. He's a magnificent shot stopper, strong on crosses, a commanding figure who does a lot to calm the defenders around him. As a traditional goalkeeper, he's the best.

There are 2 things that set Neuer apart though, aside from traditional goalkeeping skills. The first is that aura, all of the very best keepers have had that aura, that thing that makes players say "I scored against Neuer" rather than "I scored against Bayern Munich/Germany" few have it, few have had it throughout the history of the game, Neuer is one of the few. That kind of presence he has, that aura and control he seems to have over every situation is a rare thing that is tough to put into words, it's only when you see it do you know that he's special.

The second is that he's the first, and the best, hybrid keeper/sweeper that there's ever been. It's not some flashy gimmick or something he does because "he's bored" as the BT commentators keep saying. It's something Guardiola demands. Because the counter attack in Germany is so rapid and fierce and a big weapon for almost every team in the Bundesliga, and because the Bayern line is very high and, at times can be only 2 people, Neuer has a massive part to play in stopping counter attacks in the way a traditional sweeper would. He's magnificent at it. With the ball at his feet he is one of the very bet keepers around too just to round him out a bit more. Neuer is the first that has gone beyond being just a goalkeeper.

Andersonisgod

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

You won't understand even if he does pal. He has transcended all of us boardsies because he watched a Bayern Munich game last week. We don't have the same analysis skills.

Reality: They are really close in ability and any kind of armchair analysis saying one is miles away from the other is just horse**** football pseudo-intellectualism wrapped up as reasoned opinion.

I did actually.....did you?

That's your reality, that's not the reality of the game that's being played every week. Try checking it out.

Andersonisgod

Business Cat wrote: »

Don't you know how the soccer forum works?

What AIG says is fact.

Anyone that disagrees with him is wrong.

Do try and keep up!

I don't want to sound arrogant but most of the time, yes. And it would be easier if people did keep up, it might also provide me with more interesting debates.

PhlegmyMoses

Aura. You have to be ****ing joking me.

It's actually Neuer's chi. His chi fights the attacker's chi for supremacy and comes out on top in 1v1s. It's also because he is an alpha male and pisses at random intervals around the Allianz, and the alpha ammonia smell puts off all of the betas.

Liam McPoyle

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I don't want to sound arrogant but most of the time, yes. And it would be easier if people did keep up, it might also provide me with more interesting debates.

But you are exceedingly arrogant so why would you start worrying now?

I personally don't care anyway, you are happy in your own bubble of self satisfaction so bully for you.

Andersonisgod

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Aura. You have to be ****ing joking me.

It's actually Neuer's chi. His chi fights the attacker's chi for supremacy and comes out on top in 1v1s. It's also because he is an alpha male and pisses at random intervals around the Allianz, and the alpha ammonia smell puts off all of the betas.

Haha I love how easily you discount it yet if I had to pull up some quotes from teammates, coaches and opponents of Neuer one of the very first things they will mention is his aura, just as they would about Kahn or Schmeichel ect. for a keeper (especially when you speak of being the very best of your generation), it's huge and your disregard for it is telling.

Andersonisgod

Business Cat wrote: »

But you are exceedingly arrogant so why would you start worrying now?

I personally don't care anyway, you are happy in your own bubble of self satisfaction so bully for you.

Well look at some of the replies I have to deal with, in comparison I must come across as some kind of football deity.

GreNoLi

Randolph is the best imo.

StringerBell

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I don't want to sound arrogant but most of the time, yes. And it would be easier if people did keep up, it might also provide me with more interesting debates.

You tend to disappear rather quickly when someone provides you with a riposte/point of discussion you cannot handle though, takes the fun out of engaging with you.

Andersonisgod

StringerBell wrote: »

You tend to disappear rather quickly when someone provides you with a riposte you cannot handle though, takes the fun out of engaging with you.

I don't remember that ever happening, though you must remember I watch a lot of games and, though the screen on my phone is pretty bloody massive, I don't enjoy typing while watching games.

deaddonkey15

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Haha I love how easily you discount it yet if I had to pull up some quotes from teammates, coaches and opponents of Neuer one of the very first things they will mention is his aura, just as they would about Kahn or Schmeichel ect. for a keeper (especially when you speak of being the very best of your generation), it's huge and your disregard for it is telling.

Provide us with some of these quotes.

Andersonisgod

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Provide us with some of these quotes.

Why in the name of God would I scour through each post match press conference of every game Neuer has played for the last few seasons to prove a point that, outside of 1 fan, is undisputed (that being that presence and aura is an important factor for a goalkeeper). Why would I go through so much bother to prove something so fundamentally basic and so widely accepted that a keeper on an under 12 team probably knows it.

Anyway because I'm bored of explaining the most basic things because I think my ceiling is a bit higher than that, here's quite a good, detailed player analysis of Manuel Neuer
http://spielverlagerung.com/2015/01/09/in-depth-player-analysis-manuel-neuer/.

Liam McPoyle

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Why in the name of God would I scour through each post match press conference of every game Neuer has played for the last few seasons to prove a point that, outside of 1 fan, is undisputed (that being that presence and aura is an important factor for a goalkeeper). Why would I go through so much bother to prove something so fundamentally basic and so widely accepted that a keeper on an under 12 team probably knows it.

Anyway because I'm bored of explaining the most basic things because I think my ceiling is a bit higher than that, here's quite a good, detailed player analysis of Manuel Neuer
http://spielverlagerung.com/2015/01/09/in-depth-player-analysis-manuel-neuer/.

deaddonkey15

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Why in the name of God would I scour through each post match press conference of every game Neuer has played for the last few seasons to prove a point that, outside of 1 fan, is undisputed (that being that presence and aura is an important factor for a goalkeeper). Why would I go through so much bother to prove something so fundamentally basic and so widely accepted that a keeper on an under 12 team probably knows it.

Anyway because I'm bored of explaining the most basic things because I think my ceiling is a bit higher than that, here's quite a good, detailed player analysis of Manuel Neuer
http://spielverlagerung.com/2015/01/09/in-depth-player-analysis-manuel-neuer/.

Because when people want their opinion to be respected, they are prepared to back up what they say. I didn't ask you prove anything. You claimed there are quotes from teammates, coaches and opponents alluding to Neuer's "aura" (why talk about real stats like saves and points earned when you can debate on the topic of purely subject things such as aura), and when asked simply to provide a few examples of these quotes, you revert to your usual condescending tone which nobody takes seriously. Why do you expect people to respect what you have to say when you're not prepared to back it up.

GreNoLi

Make a poll lads.

Andersonisgod

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Because when people want their opinion to be respected, they are prepared to back up what they say. I didn't ask you prove anything. You claimed there are quotes from teammates, coaches and opponents alluding to Neuer's "aura" (why talk about real stats like saves and points earned when you can debate on the topic of purely subject things such as aura), and when asked simply to provide a few examples of these quotes, you revert to your usual condescending tone which nobody takes seriously. Why do you expect people to respect what you have to say when you're not prepared to back it up.

Because the point is so basic that it shouldn't require backing up, it's a given. It's the equivalent of saying "find quotes to back up the argument that strikers should score goals" or "find quotes to back up the argument that midfielders should be able to make a 5 yard pass." It's not an argument, it's not a debate.

The point is "the very best goalkeepers have an aura" do you dispute that? If so, on what grounds? I'm not asking that in a harsh way, I'd genuinely love to know how anyone could possibly argue such a basic point.

deaddonkey15

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Because the point is so basic that it shouldn't require backing up, it's a given. It's the equivalent of saying "find quotes to back up the argument that strikers should score goals" or "find quotes to back up the argument that midfielders should be able to make a 5 yard pass." It's not an argument, it's not a debate.

The point is "the very best goalkeepers have an aura" do you dispute that? If so, on what grounds? I'm not asking that in a harsh way, I'd genuinely love to know how anyone could possibly argue such a basic point.

But it isn't. You cited a specific group of people, Neuer's teammates coaches and opponents, having quotes about Neuer specifically in which they specifically refer to his aura. I just asked you to provide SOME, not all, of these quotes.

If it's universally accepted that the very best keepers have an aura, then why are you using this ridiculous argument as a reason why Neuer is superior to De gea? De Gea is one of the very best keepers in the world, therefore he has an aura too. Just like Neuer.

Andersonisgod

By the way, I did link an article which backs up whatever I'm saying, with the source being the excellent Spielverlagerung.de site....so yes, there's me backing up my argument.