Is it time for ireland to accept we are like most of Europe and be happy just renti

Graham

Lilah Blue Meteorite wrote: »

They also most likely want to leave it to their own children so selling it just is not on the cards for so many reasons. As mentioned many times a home is much more than a roof and a few bedrooms, its basically part of the family.

I can't think of a single person I know who has inherited the old family home and moved into it. I can think of plenty who have sold the old family home when the last of their parents passed on.

Maybe there should be some tax incentives to encourage the sale of 'family homes' long before the death of the occupants.

MrMorooka

Lilah Blue Meteorite wrote: »

But in the long term how anyone is happy to hand over so much money in rent for years and years when the same or almost definitely less money would have them living in their own home that after x number of years they will own outright and that monthly repayment will then be their money to keep every month while the renter keeps paying,

I call bull. There is no way I could afford to buy a house in the area in which I'm living now via renting. Especically with the new mortgage rules(which I do support). 3.5x my income would not get me anywhere I would actually want to live, so I will continue happily renting in the medium term.

Owning a home also goes along with traditional paths like getting married(beause how else can you afford the mortgage?) and having kids(to leave the house to). That's not a path that everyone is following. I know I don't expect to ever have kids, so the argument of leaving something to them doesn't sway me at all.

allibastor

Cunning Stunt wrote: »

Are we not already moving more towards renting? If I look on daft I am amazed at how little rental properties there are available at the moment -theyre all gone. There used to be any amount of them.

We are, but it is due to large companies bringing more and more people into the country more than anything. Many big multi nationals now have full teams of accommodation officers who sole job is to try and find a house/apartment/room for staff coming over.

Asmooh

the problem is that the irish corporations should move somewhere else.. like build a biggg office in co. sligo or so and one somewhere in kerry.. will sove so much issues.. and I guess it will be cheaper for them also

allibastor

Asmooh wrote: »

the problem is that the irish corporations should move somewhere else.. like build a biggg office in co. sligo or so and one somewhere in kerry.. will sove so much issues.. and I guess it will be cheaper for them also

Wont happen unfortunately, but unless someone starts to build houses for the masses of people coming in the rental market will just keep getting worse!!!

To be fair, it is the transport links which kill here. I know plenty of people who work in London but live like an hour commute away and are happy with it.

Asmooh

allibastor wrote: »

Wont happen unfortunately, but unless someone starts to build houses for the masses of people coming in the rental market will just keep getting worse!!!

To be fair, it is the transport links which kill here. I know plenty of people who work in London but live like an hour commute away and are happy with it.

I dont mind living more far away...

Leave to work: 6.20
Arrive at work: 7.45


And im still fine with it, I woulnd mind to leave half a hour earlier if I could live bigger and/or cheaper

Bob24

Asmooh wrote: »

the problem is that the irish corporations should move somewhere else.. like build a biggg office in co. sligo or so and one somewhere in kerry.. will sove so much issues.. and I guess it will be cheaper for them also

A capital city and its large pool of professionals will always attract large employers who need specific professional qualifications. If you move a large corporation from Dublin to Sligo, you will have trouble hiring the right people for highly qualified jobs.

To be fair I think Ireland is not doing too bad already with companies like Apple or Amazon in Cork or Dell in Limerick. These companies would usually tend to settle for larger cities.

borderlinemeath

Graham wrote: »

I can't think of a single person I know who has inherited the old family home and moved into it. I can think of plenty who have sold the old family home when the last of their parents passed on.

Most likely due to the high rate of inheritance tax. The majority of people can't afford to pay revenue what's owed without selling the asset. Probably completely against what the parents wanted.

Maybe there should be some tax incentives to encourage the sale of 'family homes' long before the death of the occupants.

This would be the ideal situation. But for most elderly people moving can be a hugely traumatic experience. Moving from the neighbourhood that has essentially become their support system, moving away from their community, church, friends, local clubs. They simply don't want to do it.

Graham

Graham wrote: »

I can't think of a single person I know who has inherited the old family home and moved into it. I can think of plenty who have sold the old family home when the last of their parents passed on.

Maybe there should be some tax incentives to encourage the sale of 'family homes' long before the death of the occupants.

Even if it gets sold off after they pass on having incentives to sell it before they do is just putting unwanted and unneeded pressure on them to sell. If they leave it to their children and then they sell it that's their decision but the children still benefit which is the point. You also ignored that fact that while you might have 2 people living in a 5 bedroomed house a lot of the time but come Christmas or other holidays the house could be full with people home visiting etc.

Maybe because I'm from a rural area its different but houses tend to stay in the family from my experience with one child taking on the family home. Of course the norm was for the child who took on the family home to never move out and when they got married their husband/wife would move in with them and their parents. With peoples rush to move out nowadays this is not happening so much.

I know one thing for sure, my home house will never be sold on my watch but there is a very high chance it will be lived in anyway as a second home at the least.

MrMorooka wrote: »

I call bull. There is no way I could afford to buy a house in the area in which I'm living now via renting. Especically with the new mortgage rules(which I do support). 3.5x my income would not get me anywhere I would actually want to live, so I will continue happily renting in the medium term.

I did say in my post that people may need to move to an area they can afford.

MrMorooka wrote: »

Owning a home also goes along with traditional paths like getting married(beause how else can you afford the mortgage?) and having kids(to leave the house to). That's not a path that everyone is following. I know I don't expect to ever have kids, so the argument of leaving something to them doesn't sway me at all.

Its the path that most people go down though, the vast majority I would say.

Asmooh

Bob24 wrote: »

A capital city and its large pool of professionals will always attract large employers who need specific professional qualifications. If you move a large corporation from Dublin to Sligo, you will have trouble hiring the right people for highly qualified jobs.

To be fair I think Ireland is not doing too bad already with companies like Apple or Amazon in Cork or Dell in Limerick. These companies would usually tend to settle for larger cities.

interesting :P maybe I should find a job there :P

Graham

Lilah Blue Meteorite wrote: »

Even if it gets sold off after they pass on having incentives to sell it before they do is just putting unwanted and unneeded pressure on them to sell.

No, it's an incentive there's no requirement to take advantage of it.

Lilah Blue Meteorite wrote: »

You also ignored that fact that while you might have 2 people living in a 5 bedroomed house a lot of the time but come Christmas or other holidays the house could be full with people home visiting etc.

Yup, I ignored it completely because I think the occasional visitor shouldn't really be one of the primary considerations in national housing policy or strategy.

Lilah Blue Meteorite wrote: »

I know one thing for sure, my home house will never be sold on my watch but there is a very high chance it will be lived in anyway as a second home at the least.

There's one I missed, thank you. Second homes should be subject to heavier tax but maybe just in areas where there is a shortage of housing for locals.

astrofool

Lilah Blue Meteorite wrote: »

Maybe because I'm from a rural area its different but houses tend to stay in the family from my experience with one child taking on the family home. Of course the norm was for the child who took on the family home to never move out and when they got married their husband/wife would move in with them and their parents. With peoples rush to move out nowadays this is not happening so much.

I did say in my post that people may need to move to an area they can afford.

Its the path that most people go down though, the vast majority I would say.

It is very different for rural areas, it's not like the demand is there anyway to fill up the large houses, and children will often build on their own site nearby anyway. However, those same support networks for old people are less likely to be there for rural homes, and leave them vulnerable to crime and ability to access public services, so it's probably a good idea to give them an option. On the Christmas thing, we have a neighbour down the road with the opposite problem, she wants to sell and move on, but the children force her to keep it so they have somewhere to stay at Christmas time (and their own inheritance I guess), children are stingy as hell making matters worse, so she has to keep it all going on a widows pension.

Graham

Lilah Blue Meteorite wrote: »

I did say in my post that people may need to move to an area they can afford.

Off to Cavan for everyone then, great idea apart from the whole no jobs thing.

PhoenixParker

There's also a two career problem that makes it very difficult to attract people to work outside Dublin (or other major cities).
Qualified professionals tend to be in relationships/married to other qualified professionals who also want to be able to find a well paying & interesting job. It's one thing to try to find two such jobs within a reasonable commute in Dublin but outside Dublin it becomes much more difficult.

Bob24

Asmooh wrote: »

interesting :P maybe I should find a job there :P

If you have the right qualifications I actually think it is a good idea as long as you are OK with living in a smaller city and don't have anything holding in Dublin (many people would have a property, a spouse with a job here, or children at a school the like and whom the don't want to move). There might be less competition from other professionals and therefore more opportunities there.

Graces7

Lilah Blue Meteorite wrote: »

Because owning your home is something to be proud of, a place you can have the way you want it, decorated the way you want it, the security of knowing it cannot be taken off you and of course something to pass onto your kids and a place they will always know as home.

Renting is fine for a few years, though personally I cant bring myself to pay the rent for a full apartment/house even though I could afford it as I see it as a massive waste of money so despite hating it I houseshare and will continue doing it until I buy.

But in the long term how anyone is happy to hand over so much money in rent for years and years when the same or almost definitely less money would have them living in their own home that after x number of years they will own outright and that monthly repayment will then be their money to keep every month while the renter keeps paying, then things get even worse when they retire and are still paying a rent while the home owner doesn't need to worry about finding the cash to pay for rent and will have more disposable income to spend on themselves.

On top of that with monthly mortgage repayments almost always cheaper and often significantly cheaper than rent of equivalent properties owning actually gives more opportunity to save money or have more money to spend on yourself than renting.



Most people can actually afford to buy if they want it badly enough and live where they can afford to buy. A lot of people on low incomes tend to be given their own houses for almost nothing too, something that grinds the gears of a lot of hard working people.

So idealistic and young of course. As someone on long term disability a smany are and now on a basic UK pension, there is no way I could ever have bought a house. The small poor one I had was via a legacy and there was no way I could afford the maintenance. If the gales damage the roof here, the landlord fixes it. When the fridge or washing machine dies, he replaces it. So I radically disagree with your ideas! Tried owning a home for over 20 years...renting is fine thank you! But then I am old and you are young...

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

So idealistic and young of course. As someone on long term disability a smany are and now on a basic UK pension, there is no way I could ever have bought a house. The small poor one I had was via a legacy and there was no way I could afford the maintenance. If the gales damage the roof here, the landlord fixes it. When the fridge or washing machine dies, he replaces it. So I radically disagree with your ideas! Tried owning a home for over 20 years...renting is fine thank you! But then I am old and you are young...

I think I'm correct in saying you get rent allowance though, of course this makes a big difference as its money you would not be getting if you owned your home. Most will not get rent allowance however (and rightly so I might add) so in most situations you are much better off to own your home. If you keep on top of maintenance you will be unlucky to have a big expense and the fact you are not paying rent allows you to save up money (this is making the likely assumption you have paid off your mortgage which most do before retiring).

MrMorooka

Lilah Blue Meteorite wrote: »

I did say in my post that people may need to move to an area they can afford.

But I can afford to live in this area- I just can't afford to buy. I don't see what the problem is. Why should I move from a great vibrant city centre area to a suburb outside the M50 where I have to drive everywhere/deal with lack of services, just for a bigger house/pointless garden?

Like I say, I will rent for as long as it is practical to do so. Hopefully in 10/15/20 years I might have a good enough income that I can afford to buy an apartment in a good location, and I will be happy with that I think for a long time. But I am perfectly happy to rent, and refuse to feel bad about it.

Lilah Blue Meteorite wrote: »

Its the path that most people go down though, the vast majority I would say.

I would argue that marriage rates are going down, divorces are up, smaller families, people having children later etc etc. The world is changing, and the simplistic model of 'live with parents, rent for ~5 years in a crappy flat, get married, buy semi-d' is increasingly not fitting people.

Lilah Blue Meteorite

Lilah Blue Meteorite wrote: »

Very good point, our criminal rates of inheritance tax definitely has a big role to play in people selling on their family homes.

Do you really think they are 'criminal'?

Personally I think we should reward hard work and initiative rather than have a society where success and wealth depends on how rich mammy and daddy were.

People should be encouraged to spend while alive and leave anything left to charity. Either way the current exemptions seem fair to me.

Asmooh

Bob24 wrote: »

If you have the right qualifications

If they have jobs that require Dutch

I actually think it is a good idea as long as you are OK with living in a smaller city and don't have anything holding in Dublin (many people would have a property, a spouse with a job here, or children at a school the like and whom the don't want to move).

I would love to live in the middle of absolutely nowhere, I dont have anything in Dublin except my job.

I lived in Högsjö before, loved it!

There might be less competition from other professionals and therefore more opportunities there.

Dutch jobs (the one I am always looking out for) are less competitive anyway

MrMorooka

MrMorooka wrote: »

But I can afford to live in this area- I just can't afford to buy. I don't see what the problem is. Why should I move from a great vibrant city centre area to a suburb outside the M50 where I have to drive everywhere/deal with lack of services, just for a bigger house/pointless garden?

I would never live in or near Dublin in the first place, far too big for my liking so we are on very different sides of the discussion from the start. Leaving that aside I'd prefer to own the bigger house further out, in fact I could really only see myself settling down properly in a country location not even in a suburb.

MrMorooka wrote: »

I would argue that marriage rates are going down, divorces are up, smaller families, people having children later etc etc. The world is changing, and the simplistic model of 'live with parents, rent for ~5 years in a crappy flat, get married, buy semi-d' is increasingly not fitting people.

I can only speak from my experience, I'm early 30's and every single one of my friends who would stretch from the late 20's to early 30's age bracket are marrying, buying/building houses and the ones already married have started to have kids so I don't really see any change happening.

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you really think they are 'criminal'?

Personally I think we should reward hard work and initiative rather than have a society where success and wealth depends on how rich mammy and daddy were.

People should be encouraged to spend while alive and leave anything left to charity. Either way the current exemptions seem fair to me.

I totally disagree, inheritance tax is an abomination. It should be totally abolished and families should be allowed to keep their money and property within their family and no one else should have a say in it. Getting the next generation off to a head start should be the plan of any family.

Mucco

Just to give my experience:

I have just finished renting in Brussels on the standard '3-6-9' contract. That's a 9 year contract with break clauses every three years. Aside from those breaks, the tenant has to give the landlord 3 months notice, and the larndlord has to give the tenant 6 months notice to break the contract.

Rental increases are government defined based on inflation - my rent wasn't increased in the last 2 years.

My landlady hasn't bothered me and I haven't bothered her in 3.5 years of renting.

MrMorooka

Lilah Blue Meteorite wrote: »

I would never live in or near Dublin in the first place, far too big for my liking so we are on very different sides of the discussion from the start. Leaving that aside I'd prefer to own the bigger house further out, in fact I could really only see myself settling down properly in a country location not even in a suburb.

I can only speak from my experience, I'm early 30's and every single one of my friends who would stretch from the late 20's to early 30's age bracket are marrying, buying/building houses and the ones already married have started to have kids so I don't really see any change happening.

Yes, There is definitely an urban/rural divide at play here. My experience/opinion is basically the complete opposite.

Asmooh

Bob24 wrote: »

Now just a piece of advice of you ever move there: don't be telling Cork people they are living in the middle of nowhere ;-D

I was looking for something in Trim / Summerhill but everything was gone ;( still quite close by dublin

borderlinemeath

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you really think they are 'criminal'?

http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/our-inheritance-tax-regime-one-of-toughest-in-the-world-31291580.html

Personally I think we should reward hard work and initiative rather than have a society where success and wealth depends on how rich mammy and daddy were.

Our successive governments have decided on the exact opposite, hard work and initiative are routinely taxed so harshly that most middle income earners have as much expenditure after outgoings as somebody on RA and welfare income would.

A "hand out" from the parents is not a uniquely Irish thing, even if it was not a financial handout, it was maybe furnishings, or a home for a young married couple to live with their parents until such a time as they could afford their own home.

People should be encouraged to spend while alive and leave anything left to charity. Either way the current exemptions seem fair to me.

People have every right to be as astute as they want with their own earnings, and have every right to leave their estate to whomever they wish, be that family or friends, or community or charity. They shouldn't be encouraged by society, their family or anybody else for that matter.

Graham

Lilah Blue Meteorite wrote: »

I would never live in or near Dublin in the first place, far too big for my liking so we are on very different sides of the discussion from the start. Leaving that aside I'd prefer to own the bigger house further out, in fact I could really only see myself settling down properly in a country location not even in a suburb.

You're luck that your career affords you that choice.

Lilah Blue Meteorite wrote: »

I totally disagree, inheritance tax is an abomination. It should be totally abolished and families should be allowed to keep their money and property within their family and no one else should have a say in it. Getting the next generation off to a head start should be the plan of any family.

Ahhh back to the gold old days of small town Ireland where over generations entire families were gifted a vice-like grip on local shops/pubs/hotels/property/land/undertakers/feed-suppliers........

Graham

Graham wrote: »

Ahhh back to the gold old days of small town Ireland where over generations entire families were gifted a vice-like grip on local shops/pubs/hotels/property/land/undertakers/feed-suppliers........

Of course families should be able to pass on their business and land to the next generation without any penalty.

Speedwell

Graham wrote: »

Ahhh back to the gold old days of small town Ireland where over generations entire families were gifted a vice-like grip on local shops/pubs/hotels/property/land/undertakers/feed-suppliers........

The answer to that is to remove barriers to entry for competition, not to remove property from hereditary owners.

Graham

Lilah Blue Meteorite wrote: »

Of course families should be able to pass on their business and land to the next generation without any penalty.

Within reason, which is pretty much what the current inheritance tax regime allows.

Speedwell wrote: »

The answer to that is to remove barriers to entry for competition, not to remove property from hereditary owners.

Playing devils advocate you could argue that trying to compete with a family that has been gifted large swathes of a towns commerce to be a fairly significant barrier.

Speedwell

Graham wrote: »

Playing devils advocate you could argue that trying to compete with a family that has been gifted large swathes of a towns commerce to be a fairly significant barrier.

Normally the removal of barriers to entry doesn't include shutting down going concerns.