Secondary school detention concerns

Juan bu

In my son's school they have what they call ,"in house detention" which is where the student is in this detention is excluded from their own class year for the whole day and is sitting in their form teachers classroom for the whole day and only get a 20 min break out of the 7 hr school day ,is this even legal ??

the_pen_turner

doesn't sound right to me

The_Valeyard

Do not see a problem with it.

Child is supervised by year head. Still receives breaks.
Child is removed from mainstream class so learning can take place and rest of class can continue their studies without interruption, etc.

Juan bu

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Do not see a problem with it.

Child is supervised by year head. Still receives breaks.
Child is removed from mainstream class so learning can take place and rest of class can continue their studies without interruption, etc.

Only receiving 1 twenty min break in the 7 hr day

beveragelady

We have lunchtime detention, whereby the student shows up 10 mins into a 50 min lunch break. This means they get the 10 min break at 11 and a further 10 mins at the start of lunch, totaling 20 mins. Nobody seems to think this is unreasonable or cruel and unusual and it works quite well. Parents complaining that their child was being shortchanged on breaktimes would probably be given short shrift.
OP, if your boy is in detention it's not for no reason. It's unpleasant because it's supposed to be.
If he's not in detention then the prospect of a full day's isolation and boredom should serve to keep him on the straight and narrow.
You should be grateful that your son attends a school where disruptive students are not permitted to ruin classes.

Out of curiosity, were the details of in-house detention explained in a news-letter or some other direct form of communication from the school? If not, make sure your information is 100% correct before making contact with the school, if that's what you're planning to do. It's amazing how often parents are fed sketchy info from students who feel hard done by.

Kristopherus

Juan bu wrote: »

In my son's school they have what they call ,"in house detention" which is where the student is in this detention is excluded from their own class year for the whole day and is sitting in their form teachers classroom for the whole day and only get a 20 min break out of the 7 hr school day ,is this even legal ??

Is/was it your son that was detained?

barney 20v

beveragelady wrote: »

We have lunchtime detention, whereby the student shows up 10 mins into a 50 min lunch break. This means they get the 10 min break at 11 and a further 10 mins at the start of lunch, totaling 20 mins. Nobody seems to think this is unreasonable or cruel and unusual and it works quite well. Parents complaining that their child was being shortchanged on breaktimes would probably be given short shrift.
OP, if your boy is in detention it's not for no reason. It's unpleasant because it's supposed to be.
If he's not in detention then the prospect of a full day's isolation and boredom should serve to keep him on the straight and narrow.
You should be grateful that your son attends a school where disruptive students are not permitted to ruin classes.

Out of curiosity, were the details of in-house detention explained in a news-letter or some other direct form of communication from the school? If not, make sure your information is 100% correct before making contact with the school, if that's what you're planning to do. It's amazing how often parents are fed sketchy info from students who feel hard done by.

Two 10 minute breaks to consume lunch ?
Sufficient ?? I think not.
Wouldn't be acceptable on a work environment with adults, why is it ok with kids?

Any teacher forcing such a policy on my kids would I assure you, not give me " the short shrift"

All for detention when required.

beveragelady

barney 20v wrote: »

All for detention when required.

If lunchtime detention is out, would you prefer after-school detention? This requires students to put in a longer day at school, sending them home late with a full evening's homework ahead of them. It is also often extremely inconvenient for even the most indulgent parents, as well as depending on the cooperation of teachers after the school day is finished.
How do you envisage the ideal detention setup?

barney 20v wrote: »

Two 10 minute breaks to consume lunch ?
Sufficient ?? I think not.
Wouldn't be acceptable on a work environment with adults, why is it ok with kids?

*Edit* Teachers frequently work through their lunchbreak, between corridor supervision, contacting parents, chasing discipline matters and giving voluntary extra tuition. It is not just accepted, it is expected.

barney 20v

beveragelady wrote: »

If lunchtime detention is out, would you prefer after-school detention? This requires students to put in a longer day at school, sending them home late with a full evening's homework ahead of them. It is also often extremely inconvenient for even the most indulgent parents, as well as depending on the cooperation of teachers after the school day is finished.
How do you envisage the ideal detention setup?



*Edit* Teachers frequently work through their lunchbreak, between corridor supervision, contacting parents, chasing discipline matters and giving voluntary extra tuition. It is not just accepted, it is expected.

If teachers don't like the job then quit.
They sign up in full knowledge of all this .

Sending them home busy is better than hungry in my opinion.

Have you folks got no training on the importance of breaks and correct eating habits etc?
Rushing a lunch into them to facilitate teachers is detrimental to their health.

And yes, after hours detention having had proper breaks during the day .

beveragelady

barney 20v wrote: »

If teachers don't like the job then quit.
They sign up in full knowledge of all this .

Sending them home busy is better than hungry in my opinion.

Have you folks got no training on the importance of breaks and correct eating habits etc?
Rushing a lunch into them to facilitate teachers is detrimental to their health.

And yes, after hours detention having had proper breaks during the day .

You asserted that it is unacceptable to work through lunch in the adult world, I offered a contrary view. I didn't say I have a problem with it or that I hate my job. I certainly don't claim to speak for all teachers, as you say they're welcome to quit if they hate it.

Detention will only work if (A) it is a little unpleasant and (B) can be managed without making life too difficult for either parents or teachers. For example, parents of kids who get buses from rural areas to school have a reasonable objection to after-school detention. In-school detention inconveniences nobody but the kid who has caused the trouble in the first place. Surely we can agree that that's fair?
Teachers are already signed up to lunch time supervision, detention supervision falls under that. Should teachers supervise after-school detention on a voluntary basis? Should parents be asked to pay the teachers? All parents, or just the ones whose kids are in detention? Or should cash-strapped schools foot the bill? Or would parents make themselves available to supervise, requiring garda vetting obviously. There are numerous logistical problems involved in after-school detention that are cleared up by sticking to lunchtime detention. Perhaps it's much easier for urban schools to make after-school detention work as kids are more likely to either live withing walking distance or have access to public transport apart from school buses.
I should point out that it's not quite true to say that teachers 'signed up in full knowledge' of the complexities of supervision and substitution. The rules and requirements have changed quite a bit in recent years and no doubt they will again.

spurious

barney 20v wrote:

If teachers don't like the job then quit. They sign up in full knowledge of all this .

If parents don't like the school rules, take their ill-behaved darling elsewhere.

Subcomandante Marcos

So many things wrong with this from child safety standards to the sheer idiocy of only allowing them a few minutes to eat one of their major daily meals.

There's a serious problem with the culture of punishment in some schools in this country that need to die out asap.

Juan bu

Kristopherus wrote: »

Is/was it your son that was detained?

Yes it was and was detained after I had removed him from it a few days previous the sitiuation is little complicated , as one teacher in the school was bullying him ,I had meeting with school over the issues and a line was meant to be drawn under everything clean slate fresh start was agreed on and then they go and do this

Juan bu

barney 20v wrote: »

Two 10 minute breaks to consume lunch ?
Sufficient ?? I think not.
Wouldn't be acceptable on a work environment with adults, why is it ok with kids?

Any teacher forcing such a policy on my kids would I assure you, not give me " the short shrift"

All for detention when required.

Not even two ten minute breaks just one 20 min break

The_Valeyard

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

So many things wrong with this from child safety standards to the sheer idiocy of only allowing them a few minutes to eat one of their major daily meals.

There's a serious problem with the culture of punishment in some schools in this country that need to die out asap.

'Culture of punishment' Ha!

The problem in this country is idiotic parents who believe their child can do no wrong and kids have the right to do what they want in a classroom.

The other 29/30 kids have a right to education and not to be putting up with some class clown.

I'd say school administrators should hand out 3-4 day external suspension. Let the parents minds their precious darlings.

Juan bu

Juan bu wrote: »

Yes it was and was detained after I had removed him from it a few days previous the sitiuation is little complicated , as one teacher in the school was bullying him ,I had meeting with school over the issues and a line was meant to be drawn under everything clean slate fresh start was agreed on and then they go and do this

I've no prob with school detentions etc I know teachers have to keep the school / students under control but I also
Am concerned that 20 mi n break in a 7 hr day is just not healthy and 2 what they done was under handed as I had removed him from the in house previous
And behind my back they made him do it seems to me when I wasn't them bully my son that they are now trying to bully me as they should have Been a fresh start as suggested by them and agreed by them instead they have gone back on their word

Juan bu

The_Valeyard wrote: »

'Culture of punishment' Ha!

The problem in this country is idiotic parents who believe their child can do no wrong and kids have the right to do what they want in a classroom.

The other 29/30 kids have a right to education and not to be putting up with some class clown.

I'd say school administrators should hand out 3-4 day external suspension. Let the parents minds their precious darlings.

This had nothing to do with disruption of a class ,if you weren't so close minded you would realise detention is given for lots of different reasons so before you go spouting off about parents and they're little darlings maybe think about the bigger picture and not just jump to the conclusion that the student is just being a little brat

The_Valeyard

Juan bu wrote: »

This had nothing to do with disruption of a class ,if you weren't so close minded you would realise detention is given for lots of different reasons so before you go spouting off about parents and they're little darlings maybe think about the bigger picture and not just jump to the conclusion that the student is just being a little brat

Closed minded? Looking at your posts...... ha!

Enlighten me so. What is this bigger picture? Why would a child receive detention if they are not acting like a brat?

Juan bu

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Do not see a problem with it.

Child is supervised by year head. Still receives breaks.
Child is removed from mainstream class so learning can take place and rest of class can continue their studies without interruption, etc.

Nothing to do with disruption of a class , amazing how people just accuse the student automatically ,because the problem could never be blamed on the teacher ,teachers would never bully or accuse a student in the wrong God no that would never happen

beveragelady

Nobody here knows the full details of this but it is unlikely that your son is blameless. If that is the case, any past agreement did not give him a free pass for future behaviour and if he landed himself back in detention it is most likely that he did not hold up his end of the bargain. Wading in on his behalf is not going to do him any favours. He might even be operating under the illusion that you're going to rescue him from detention no matter what he does.
If you honestly feel a teacher has been treating him unfairly (and I would emphasise that you need to make sure your son is being 100% honest with you about what has been happening, no omissions or exaggerations) then arrange to meet the principal. Your son absolutely deserves to be treated fairly by the school and his teachers, and the principal will always try to make sure that this is what happens.

The_Valeyard

Juan bu wrote: »

Nothing to do with disruption of a class , amazing how people just accuse the student automatically ,because the problem could never be blamed on the teacher ,teachers would never bully or accuse a student in the wrong God no that would never happen

Yeah, I'm seeing one side of a very rose tinted dubious story here.

Juan bu

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Closed minded? Looking at your posts...... ha!

Enlighten me so. What is this bigger picture? Why would a child receive detention if they are not acting like a brat?

A teacher in the school was bullying him and one day he got fed up of he he walk out of the class as he had enough and because he walk out of class without permission he was given an in house which I removed him from till I got a meeting with the school to see if we could all resolve the problems it was agreed by both the school and myself that a line would be drawn under everything clean slate fresh start ,for them to go behind my back and break there word about a fresh start and made my son redo the in house

Juan bu

beveragelady wrote: »

Nobody here knows the full details of this but it is unlikely that your son is blameless. If that is the case, any past agreement did not give him a free pass for future behaviour and if he landed himself back in detention it is most likely that he did not hold up his end of the bargain. Wading in on his behalf is not going to do him any favours. He might even be operating under the illusion that you're going to rescue him from detention no matter what he does.
If you honestly feel a teacher has been treating him unfairly (and I would emphasise that you need to make sure your son is being 100% honest with you about what has been happening, no omissions or exaggerations) then arrange to meet the principal. Your son absolutely deserves to be treated fairly by the school and his teachers, and the principal will always try to make sure that this is what happens.

God this is not a new detention my son did not get in trouble again the school broke their end of the deal

The_Valeyard

Juan bu wrote: »

A teacher in the school was bullying him and one day he got fed up of he he walk out of the class as he had enough and because he walk out of class without permission he was given an in house which I removed him from till I got a meeting with the school to see if we could all resolve the problems it was agreed by both the school and myself that a line would be drawn under everything clean slate fresh start ,for them to go behind my back and break there word about a fresh start and made my son redo the in house

What did he do in the meantime?

Juan bu

The_Valeyard wrote: »

What did he do in the meantime?

While waiting for a meeting he stayed home with me as I don't send him to school to be bullied I send him him there to get educated

The_Valeyard

Juan bu wrote: »

While waiting for a meeting he stayed home with me as I don't send him to school to be bullied I send him him there to get educated

No. What happened in the time between your 'agreement' and him ending on detention.

Juan bu

beveragelady wrote: »

Nobody here knows the full details of this but it is unlikely that your son is blameless. If that is the case, any past agreement did not give him a free pass for future behaviour and if he landed himself back in detention it is most likely that he did not hold up his end of the bargain. Wading in on his behalf is not going to do him any favours. He might even be operating under the illusion that you're going to rescue him from detention no matter what he does.
If you honestly feel a teacher has been treating him unfairly (and I would emphasise that you need to make sure your son is being 100% honest with you about what has been happening, no omissions or exaggerations) then arrange to meet the principal. Your son absolutely deserves to be treated fairly by the school and his teachers, and the principal will always try to make sure that this is what happens.

I've had the meetings etc the school went back on there word and no I don't go rescue my son all the time ,only when I can see he genuinely did not deserve it the teacher has even admitted that she could have handled things better

Juan bu

The_Valeyard wrote: »

No. What happened in the time between your 'agreement' and him ending on detention.

Ok the detention they made him redo is the one where I took him out of it as I felt he did not deserve it under the circumstances , meaning he walked away from a teacher who was bullying him , now at the meeting a fresh start was agreed on so what was in the past stayed in the past including the detention but a few days after the meeting they made him redo this detention that I had removed him from and that was meant to be in the past so they broke they're word

beveragelady

It looks like your issue with the school is not really about whether their detention policy is overly cruel, but about whether your son has been treated unfairly.

Are you absolutely sure the 'fresh start' agreement meant that he would not face detention for walking out of the class? It seems unlikely to me that a student would be excused detention because a parent intervened. Has he a history of misbehaving or have all his issues been with this teacher?

Nobody here knows what happened that you consider bullying, but you should at least face the objective possibility that your son was misbehaving in some way and felt hard done by when he was reprimanded. Parents of disruptive kids are sometimes astounded to learn that the vast majority of students make their way through secondary school without any record of misbehaving at all, these parents have become accustomed to notes in journals or whatever and assume it is the norm.

I know that it can be hard for a parent to accept that their kid is at fault, but I also know that no school will support a teacher who singles out one student for unfair treatment. Make an appointment with the principal, be calm and rational and explain what has been happening, make your case if you are absolutely sure your son has told you the whole story. Teenagers are inclined to add or leave out crucial details that can tell a very different story. Explain the importance of complete honesty to your son and talk to your principal armed with the facts.

Juan bu

Juan bu wrote: »

I've no prob with school detentions etc I know teachers have to keep the school / students under control but I also
Am concerned that 20 mi n break in a 7 hr day is just not healthy and 2 what they done was under handed as I had removed him from the in house previous
And behind my back they made him do it seems to me when I wasn't them bully my son that they are now trying to bully me as they should have Been a fresh start as suggested by them and agreed by them instead they have gone back on their word

Rules are there to be observed. If the parent is encouraging the student to break those rules, then I pity the poor teachers. A bit of respect shown by the parents to the teachers would go a long way to showing their offspring how people behave in a civilized society.

BTW, have you ever watched a male teenager eating? 2 minutes would be plenty!

Show some respect and your child will learn from you After all you are their primary educator.

Juan bu

beveragelady wrote: »

It looks like your issue with the school is not really about whether their detention policy is overly cruel, but about whether your son has been treated unfairly.

Are you absolutely sure the 'fresh start' agreement meant that he would not face detention for walking out of the class? It seems unlikely to me that a student would be excused detention because a parent intervened. Has he a history of misbehaving or have all his issues been with this teacher?

Nobody here knows what happened that you consider bullying, but you should at least face the objective possibility that your son was misbehaving in some way and felt hard done by when he was reprimanded. Parents of disruptive kids are sometimes astounded to learn that the vast majority of students make their way through secondary school without any record of misbehaving at all, these parents have become accustomed to notes in journals or whatever and assume it is the norm.

I know that it can be hard for a parent to accept that their kid is at fault, but I also know that no school will support a teacher who singles out one student for unfair treatment. Make an appointment with the principal, be calm and rational and explain what has been happening, make your case if you are absolutely sure your son has told you the whole story. Teenagers are inclined to add or leave out crucial details that can tell a very different story. Explain the importance of complete honesty to your son and talk to your principal armed with the facts.

He was been bullied by a teacher and no he Is no Angel but he is no devil either ,I've been to the school and speaking to teachers and she has admitted she could have handled things better the problem is they broke they're own agreement with me and my son