Secondary school detention concerns

gormdubhgorm

SAMTALK wrote: »

Well if this is all from the one student there most definetly is a problem!!
And from reading back on posts it seems it will lead to bag snatching /guards/court

There seems to be a lot of surmising about this pupil but few seem to pick up on the fact that the teacher changed her story and that school said they would start with a clean state

I would imagine if a pupil is as troublesome as some posters are inferring the school would be looking at a suspension surely

In fairness the muddled nature of the OPs posts have not helped, sometimes they seem deliberately vague.. One other poster fairly summed up the facts that were given so far and the questions resulting from the mostly vague facts given. For example bullying and an agreement etc.

Mary63

Im not a teacher but a parent and I have four children in secondary school.I have never had a note home and If I do get one I can assure you it will be the first and last one I get.None of my children have ever been put in detention to the best of my knowledge and I have never heard of all day segregation in school,this has to be on grounds of safety of other students surely,I can't think of any other reason why a student,this is a fifteen year old youth and not a child should be dealt with like that.

We still haven't been told how the teacher is bullying the student,it would be nice if we could get more of the background.

From what I am reading it seems this student has been in trouble since first year and he is now in Junior Cert year and facing exams shortly and teachers for whatever reason want him to spend a day in isolation.I could be wrong but this might be so other students can get on with learning,some of them will be worried about their exams by now and they don't need disruptive students in their class.I would want teachers to take OPS son out of the classroom if he was disputing my teens class time and I couldn't care less where they put him or if he didn't have time to eat lunch,most parents would probably think like me.

Miaireland

I think you took a different meaning from a clean slate than the school. I would assume that the school meant that your son would be treated like a student who hadn't been in any trouble ie guven the benifit of the doubt.

I would not expect the school to have dropped the detenion. This would give students the idea that if their parents conplain about punishments then the school will drop it.

To ve honest let this be a lesson to your son. He got the punishment because he was horseplaying in the hallway in front of a teacher who he knows dislikes him. At 15 he should start copping on a bit and behave like a model student in front if this teacher.

SAMTALK

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

In fairness the muddled nature of the OPs posts have not helped, sometimes they seem deliberately vague.. One other poster fairly summed up the facts that were given so far and the questions resulting from the mostly vague facts given. For example bullying and an agreement etc.

Yes i do agree with you that we are missing some details, I just had a problem with the way OP was treated and that some people jumped to conclusion re her child based on a few details.

Im just giving her the benefit of the doubt and dont think the way some posters treated her was called for to be honest.

byhookorbycrook

iguana wrote: »

The behaviour of an awful lot of posters on this thread has skirted very close to the line of bullying the op. As the parent of a preschool aged child it's frankly quite scary. The nasty, dismissive way she has been treated, the badgering way she is constantly being asked questions (in spite of boards policy) most of which she has answered repeatedly, the replies that seem founded on disproven theories of child psychology, the clear closing of the ranks by the teachers. It all seems evidence of an authoritarian culture in education that I honestly believed we'd moved on from.

Please point out where "teachers closed ranks??"

And please point out where the questions were answered? We haven't been told what form this allegedly bullying is- surely that is central to the discussion as such a serious matter of a teacher bullying a child would be?

And as a parent of a pre-school child, perhaps you do not understand that a child would not be placed in detention for a day for a once off trivial happening.

Teachers actually do want to teach, not be disrupted .Do you honestly think a principal, VP and class teacher would meet with a parent over a forgotten book?

Mary63

How are teachers identified on this thread,where does it say what posters occupations are anywhere on Boards.ie

Is it being assumed that anyone who doesn't agree with the OP is a teacher.

seavill

Mary63 wrote: »

How are teachers identified on this thread,where does it say what posters occupations are anywhere on Boards.ie

Is it being assumed that anyone who doesn't agree with the OP is a teacher.

It is not being assumed. I have already said twice in previous posts if you read them that people posting here would be known to each other from posting in the teaching and lecturing forum. That is why they can be identified to some of us.

My other point was some of the people with the strongest opinions have either stated they are not teachers or have implied they are posting from another parents point of view thus not posting as a teacher

Juan bu

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Please point out where "teachers closed ranks??"

And please point out where the questions were answered? We haven't been told what form this allegedly bullying is- surely that is central to the discussion as such a serious matter of a teacher bullying a child would be?

And as a parent of a pre-school child, perhaps you do not understand that a child would not be placed in detention for a day for a once off trivial happening.

Teachers actually do want to teach, not be disrupted .Do you honestly think a principal, VP and class teacher would meet with a parent over a forgotten book?

No and you would imagine a teacher wouldnt give a lunch time detention for removing your fringe from your face either but guess what it happened ,just another detention he received but then again there is lots of things that we don't imagine teachers wouldnt do

BrianBoru00

Juan bu wrote: »

No and you would imagine a teacher wouldnt give a lunch time detention for removing your fringe from your face either but guess what it happened ,just another detention he received but then again there is lots of things that we don't imagine teachers wouldnt do

And when you asked the teacher why he was given detention for such a seemingly innocuous action, what was her response?

Juan bu

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Actually, I think she has departed the thread as people didn't agree 100% with her about detention being illegal and not wanting to actually specify how the teacher was allegedly bullying her child, leading me to believe that it wasn't a case of bullying but rather a parent who has an issue with her child being corrected.

NO teacher I know would want to have to sit with a child all day for a very minor once off misdemeanor.

Everybody is intitled to they're opinion and I'm really not on here for 100% of people to agree with me , and people on here saying let my son man up or I'm not doing him any favours etc ,my son is still a minor which makes me responsible for his welfare including his educational welfare and if a teacher is bullying him and accusing him of something he didn't actually do its my job as his mother to back him up and try resolve the issues accurring in the school , you might not take your parenting seriously but I do , and have you forgotten how intimdating it can be for a student standing there alone with a teacher talking down to them just to make themselves feel superior , if by me trying to help my son makes me a bad mother well so be it ,I'd rather that than to allow any adult walk all over my son than do nothing about it

Juan bu

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

And when you asked the teacher why he was given detention for such a seemingly innocuous action, what was her response?

Yes I asked her , her excuse was he was doing it excessively i asked her what did she mean by excessively her response was ,well a lot and said it was distracting her from teaching the class , but considering young teenage girls are constantly at their hair weather it would be flicking it from side to side or tying it back or just general twiddling their hair I really don't see it as an acceptable excuse

beveragelady

Juan bu wrote: »

Yes I asked her , her excuse was he was doing it excessively i asked her what did she mean by excessively her response was ,well a lot and said it was distracting her from teaching the class , but considering young teenage girls are constantly at their hair weather it would be flicking it from side to side or tying it back or just general twiddling their hair I really don't see it as an acceptable excuse

Ah come on now. Either this school is absolutely insanely rigidly strict about the smallest thing, or this is a very distorted version of a much more serious incident.

If it's the former, forget it. Take your son out of that school and send him somewhere where the teachers have better things to do with their time than obsessing over their students' hair-management strategies. Don't waste your time arguing, just make the move.

If it's the latter, you are ignoring and excusing a pattern of behaviour in your son to his detriment.

Juan bu

beveragelady wrote: »

Ah come on now. Either this school is absolutely insanely rigidly strict about the smallest thing, or this is a very distorted version of a much more serious incident.

If it's the former, forget it. Take your son out of that school and send him somewhere where the teachers have better things to do with their time than obsessing over their students' hair-management strategies. Don't waste your time arguing, just make the move.

If it's the latter, you are ignoring and excusing a pattern of behaviour in your son to his detriment.

Just one of the most ridiculous events that has happened with this teacher I'm not lying and I'm not just seeing things from only my son's side , I do understand that teachers have a though job and I really don't think I could manage a room full of teenagers ,but I do feel on some occasions that this teacher has been picking and bullying my son and I'm really not the type to run into the school over every little trivial thing i have four children to be looking after ,but some posters have protrayed me as someone who is always defending my little Johnny and my little Johnny can do no wrong on this thread which is simply not the case, and my son is the average teenager that yes has made mistakes and yes hasn't lived by every school rule in the book and if he was in the wrong I would make sure he would take responsibility for it and do whatever punishment he received but lately with this particular teacher I feel things have gone way out of hand

beveragelady

Juan bu wrote: »

Just one of the most ridiculous events that has happened with this teacher I'm not lying and I'm not just seeing things from only my son's side , I do understand that teachers have a though job and I really don't think I could manage a room full of teenagers ,but I do feel on some occasions that this teacher has been picking and bullying my son and I'm really not the type to run into the school over every little trivial thing i have four children to be looking after ,but some posters have protrayed me as someone who is always defending my little Johnny and my little Johnny can do no wrong on this thread which is simply not the case, and my son is the average teenager that yes has made mistakes and yes hasn't lived by every school rule in the book and if he was in the wrong I would make sure he would take responsibility for it and do whatever punishment he received but lately with this particular teacher I feel things have gone way out of hand

If this is the case, cut your losses and move. If the principal is supporting the teacher in this, as appears to be the case, you are on a hiding to nothing.

You mentioned before that there have been previous meetings with the school about your son. If they have all been over trivial things then surely you have had enough at this point, and surely you have enough evidence to convince you that you need to find another school. If the picture you paint is accurate I bet parents are moving their children in their hundreds.

If your portrayal is the complete picture and not a selective retelling of events, it's not fair that your boy should have to move schools but it looks like you could make the next few years extremely difficult for your son and very stressful for yourself by fighting the good fight.

(All the IFs above should be read with quite a lot of emphasis.)

beveragelady

I've just had a thought.

I know it can happen that a school can have enough of one student's constant misbehaving and disruption. Sometimes other parents make complaints and ask why nothing has been done. As a result a 'zero tolerance' policy is adopted regarding that specific student until there is enough material on him or her that the school can safely proceed to expulsion without fear of a successful section 29.

If your son has been in trouble quite a lot in the past and now there seems to be a lot of disciplinary attention focussed on him, could this be the case? It's a wild guess, and I hope I'm wrong, but it might explain your account of the teachers' unreasonable attitude to him.

Edit: Does your school have eportal or another web-based system? Have a look and see if lately he's been racking up infringements on his merit/demerit record. Or ask at the school to see his record. It might tell a more complete story.

Juan bu

beveragelady wrote: »

I've just had a thought.

I know it can happen that a school can have enough of one student's constant misbehaving and disruption. Sometimes other parents make complaints and ask why nothing has been done. As a result a 'zero tolerance' policy is adopted regarding that specific student until there is enough material on him or her that the school can safely proceed to expulsion without fear of a successful section 29.

If your son has been in trouble quite a lot in the past and now there seems to be a lot of disciplinary attention focussed on him, could this be the case? It's a wild guess, and I hope I'm wrong, but it might explain your account of the teachers' unreasonable attitude to him.

Edit: Does your school have eportal or another web-based system? Have a look and see if lately he's been racking up infringements on his merit/demerit record. Or ask at the school to see his record. It might tell a more complete story.

I honestly do understand what your saying and yes there is an eportal set up but also if he is behaving in the way that he has been portrayed on here surely it would not be just one teacher I'm having these issues with I'm in contact with the school fairly regular as yes he did get if hard to settle into the whole secondary school programme and I do keep an eye on his progress which I might add has come a long way and plus he has come out as been gay in the last year so I do keep in contact with the school to make sure everything is ok , just this one teacher seems to have it in for him

beveragelady

Juan bu wrote: »

I honestly do understand what your saying and yes there is an eportal set up but also if he is behaving in the way that he has been portrayed on here surely it would not be just one teacher I'm having these issues with I'm in contact with the school fairly regular as yes he did get if hard to settle into the whole secondary school programme and I do keep an eye on his progress which I might add has come a long way and plus he has come out as been gay in the last year so I do keep in contact with the school to make sure everything is ok , just this one teacher seems to have it in for him

The zero tolerance theory was a shot in the dark, it's unlikely to be the case. I just thought I'd throw it out there as a possible explanation.

If one teacher is being this unreasonable, and if the principal doesn't have a problem with it, then my advice is to make the move. If this is the set-up in the school you definitely won't be alone, I'm sure kids are leaving in droves.

Juan bu

beveragelady wrote: »

If this is the case, cut your losses and move. If the principal is supporting the teacher in this, as appears to be the case, you are on a hiding to nothing.

You mentioned before that there have been previous meetings with the school about your son. If they have all been over trivial things then surely you have had enough at this point, and surely you have enough evidence to convince you that you need to find another school. If the picture you paint is accurate I bet parents are moving their children in their hundreds.

If your portrayal is the complete picture and not a selective retelling of events, it's not fair that your boy should have to move schools but it looks like you could make the next few years extremely difficult for your son and very stressful for yourself by fighting the good fight.

(All the IFs above should be read with quite a lot of emphasis.)

see the whole getting him settled in issues were forgetting books ,not completing homework ,wrong shoes wrong jacket kinda stuff and I agreed with teachers that they are the school rules and he had to except them and take the punishments he recieved for them as he does have to take responsibility and live by school rules I've never gone against the school when my son was in the wrong , I know many people prob won't believe this but it is the truth if any of my children do wrong they take responsibility for it as if not how are they mean to learn from their actions that includes if that involves me swallowing my words if I've backed them up in the wrong I'm not the mother that some people have portrayed me as on here , I'm a fair person and always try look at both sides of stories and try read between the lines to figure out what's true and what's not

spurious

Would he perhaps need to be assessed for possible problems like dyspraxia?

If he had dyspraxia, no amount of trying on his side will make him better at following rules, instructions, organising himself - and it seems to be small things like that rather than major disciplinary issues he has.

Juan bu

spurious wrote: »

If he is so disorganised, has he been assessed for possible problems like dyspraxia?

No had test done on him for lots of things but came back with he was immature For his age which would be common enough in boys and that he would grow out of it , but as his mother I have always felt that he might be on some level
Of the authism spectrum but according to tests he isn't so after that I don't know , but have to admit he has matured a lot in the last 12 mths and teachers also see it and agree he has ,he would be behaving, acting like his peers now, but where as before you could see how immature he would be compared to others his age

Juan bu

spurious wrote: »

Would he perhaps need to be assessed for possible problems like dyspraxia?

If he had dyspraxia, no amount of trying on his side will make him better at following rules, instructions, organising himself - and it seems to be small things like that rather than major disciplinary issues he has.

You would be right in saying it's the smaller things and I will look into getting him assesed for dyspraxia don't think anybody has ever suggested this to me before so thank you,most people suggest adhd or dislyexia or the autism

Juan bu

Juan bu wrote: »

You would be right in saying it's the smaller things and I will look into getting him assesed for dyspraxia don't think anybody has ever suggested this to me before so thank you,most people suggest adhd or dislyexia or the autism

You really should consider changing schools and now is the time to start looking for one. He would have Transition Year to settle in, before knuckling down to Leaving Cert.

Juan bu

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You really should consider changing schools and now is the time to start looking for one. He would have Transition Year to settle in, before knuckling down to Leaving Cert.

We are hopefully moving very soon so he will be sitting his junior cert in the school he is in now and a new school in September everything going to plan but even if we don't end up moving ,
I'm changing him to a different school anyway ,if I'm stressed by the school so must my son which is not going to help his education

spurious

If it's a factor, some ETB schools have in-house facilities for assessment. I don't know how much a private assessment costs, but I would guess it's not cheap.

Juan bu

spurious wrote: »

If it's a factor, some ETB schools have in-house facilities for assessment. I don't know how much a private assessment costs, but I would guess it's not cheap.

Thank you for the info

80s Child

spurious wrote: »

If it's a factor, some ETB schools have in-house facilities for assessment. I don't know how much a private assessment costs, but I would guess it's not cheap.

Your child should be able to be assessed through the school through the S.E.N. Head. They have an allowance each year for a certain number of cases, based on the number of students in the school.

When you go in Monday to get everything sorted, be calm, maybe have everything written down for yourself as a checklist and make sure this is one of the points on the list, after you've discussed the more apparent detention issues!

Good luck with it!

byhookorbycrook

Who assessed for ADHD?ASD etc.?

Stheno

Juan bu wrote: »

I honestly do understand what your saying and yes there is an eportal set up but also if he is behaving in the way that he has been portrayed on here surely it would not be just one teacher I'm having these issues with I'm in contact with the school fairly regular as yes he did get if hard to settle into the whole secondary school programme and I do keep an eye on his progress which I might add has come a long way and plus he has come out as been gay in the last year so I do keep in contact with the school to make sure everything is ok , just this one teacher seems to have it in for him

Is it possible the teacher is homophobic?

Juan bu

Stheno wrote: »

Is it possible the teacher is homophobic?

I really don't think so but then again who knows

sryanbruen

I once got detention last month for nothing. I sent in a complaint to my school and they took it as that I was saying they weren't doing a good job and hurting them but I was actually hurting myself.

"Somedays I wish a car could run me over. Yes I am achieving something from doing this. I am getting out of this misery."

I should not have been in detention. The principal didn't even know I was on detention - I could of not went at all!