Secondary school detention concerns

haveringchick

SAMTALK wrote: »

Yes I can see a problem with OP confronting the girl but I think this thread is making out that teachers cant be wrong / that once on detention a pupil will always be a trouble maker / that the mother is blinkered about son.
I just think that from what the OP has said it does seem as if one teacher seems to have a problem with her son. Surely if he was as bad in all classes he would have been suspended by now.
I think the day of putting teachers on pedestals is well over and they are human like the rest of us and yes the can make mistakes and yes they can take a dislike to someone

Nobody is putting teachers on a pedestal
Teachers are only human beings and can take a dislike to a child and find it hard to shake that dislike and that's wrong
It's just that it hardly ever happens that a teacher takes a dislike to a well behaved pleasant child
What's clear is that the vast majority of parents are sick and fed up of their kids education being f***ed up by the minority of obnoxious brats and their equally obnoxious parents who seem to think that the school should be grateful to have lovely little Johnny or Mary and the rules only apply to the other kids because both Johnny and the parents think that rules are for losers, and Johnnys not a loser
The amount of time wasted at the schools dealing with parents who just refuse to accept that the school must impose discipline is ridiculous

SAMTALK

haveringchick wrote: »

Nobody is putting teachers on a pedestal
Teachers are only human beings and can take a dislike to a child and find it hard to shake that dislike and that's wrong
It's just that it hardly ever happens that a teacher takes a dislike to a well behaved pleasant child
What's clear is that the vast majority of parents are sick and fed up of their kids education being f***ed up by the minority of obnoxious brats and their equally obnoxious parents who seem to think that the school should be grateful to have lovely little Johnny or Mary and the rules only apply to the other kids because both Johnny and the parents think that rules are for losers, and Johnnys not a loser
The amount of time wasted at the schools dealing with parents who just refuse to accept that the school must impose discipline is ridiculous

You see from that I take it that there is no inbetween pupils.
Thats the problem in a lot of schools, They would like the perfect Grade A student who just sits in class quietly .
Sorry but life is not like that and yes there are some obnoxious brats! but if they are that obnoxious maybe suspend them ...even thought I dont think there is a rule about being obnoxious. Disruptive maybe , obnoxious i doubt.

maggiepip

OP if I were you I wouldn't continue the thread. You shouldn't have to continually justify yourself or put up with basically being accused of being a liar. Apart from a couple of level headed posters, the majority here is out to try to prove the teachers in the right and you and your son are in the wrong. Nothing you post will change their minds I fear.

Mary63

Im assuming now that the student is in first year,I asked what age he was and I don't think we have been told.

If he is only in first year and there have been other occasions and other detentions this is a lot of trouble to be in so early on.

What did the comment about"maturing"at the parent teacher meeting mean,does it mean the student had be in trouble previously but his behaviour had now improved.It sounds to me as if the school would love to see the back of him so I would definitely be noting the discipline policy and specifically how many detentions you can get before being suspended.

Reading between the lines and the amount of contact the OP has had with the school it seems a huge amount of teachers time is being taken up at the expense of other pupils right to an education.

What was your sons behaviour like in primary school OP.

gormdubhgorm

As another poster said horseplay is enough to get detention in some cases. As I said myself OP playfully messing can be enough to get detention.He is making himself a target. Why was he hanging out of a girls bag in the corridor?
You could go into semantics and discuss whether a kick connected or not but that would be ridiculous. You should be teaching your son that it is one of life's lessons don't be acting the bollix and the teachers would have no excuse to detain you. Simple as that. Instead of which you seem to be looking for any excuse to create a fuss. If he did not kick his friend there was a certain level of boisterous behaviour in the corridor. The teacher might have thought your son kicked her. Hard luck on your son, but he put himself in a situation where he was involved in unruly behaviour.
This could warrant detention on its own!
Alternatively your son is lying and his friend is trying to protect him too.
In either scenario you should be telling your son to cop himself on and accept the detention, because at the very least he was acting the eejit in the corridor. Again I repeat this on its own could warrant detention!
You are doing yourself no favours by asking whether the detention is legal. You can be sure it is in the school rules.

gormdubhgorm

SAMTALK wrote: »

So can the posters here that have taken the side of teacher not see anything wrong with teacher changing her story???

You also fail to note that the girl her son was supposed to have kicked is one of his friends.(she goes to the OP's home so the info the OP received from the girl might not be accurate?)

Juan bu

Mary63 wrote: »

Im assuming now that the student is in first year,I asked what age he was and I don't think we have been told.

If he is only in first year and there have been other occasions and other detentions this is a lot of trouble to be in so early on.

What did the comment about"maturing"at the parent teacher meeting mean,does it mean the student had be in trouble previously but his behaviour had now improved.It sounds to me as if the school would love to see the back of him so I would definitely be noting the discipline policy and specifically how many detentions you can get before being suspended.

Reading between the lines and the amount of contact the OP has had with the school it seems a huge amount of teachers time is being taken up at the expense of other pupils right to an education.

What was your sons behaviour like in primary school OP.

He is 15 and never any trouble in primary school you all seem to me dismissing the fact that he was accused in the wrong and the school renaged on an agreement

Mr Rhode Island Red

Open boards
Go to Secondary School Portal
See "Junior Cert 55 viewing"

How does one thread do this? There's normally like 20 visitors a week total here

gormdubhgorm

Juan bu wrote: »

He is 15 and never any trouble in primary school you all seem to me dismissing the fact that he was accused in the wrong and the school renaged on an agreement

What was this mystery agreement OP and why was it enacted in the first place?

Juan bu

maggiepip wrote: »

OP if I were you I wouldn't continue the thread. You shouldn't have to continually justify yourself or put up with basically being accused of being a liar. Apart from a couple of level headed posters, the majority here is out to try to prove the teachers in the right and you and your son are in the wrong. Nothing you post will change their minds I fear.

Yes a agree

gormdubhgorm

I remember when my Dad was a teacher he would say I don't remember that kid they must have been good pupils! On the other hand he could remember whole families of bad pupils and parents!

Mary63

Why did you refer to problems moving from primary school if he has done almost three years in secondary school,has he been in trouble since first year.

How many meetings have you had with the school,have your been in and out of the school for the last three years.

Its all very unfair on the rest of the class and you will probably find the other students and parents are fed up of your son now,never mind the teachers.

I really think you should let this one go and tell your son for once and for all to keep his head down and stop drawing attention to himself.What is the legal age now for leaving school,is it sixteen,he would be better off leaving and getting a job as soon as possible if he isn't interested in school.

gormdubhgorm

Juan bu wrote: »

Yes a agree

Your initial post was about the legally of detention!
The reasons for detention were very slow in coming, reasons disputed by OP but still sounds like enough for detention regardless of either story.
The impression was given that it was his first detention, this changed later.
The impression was given was that he only got into trouble with one teacher, this changed later.
A mystery agreement that was renaged on by the school is now being mentioned repeatedly. Turns out it was clemency deal for a previous\same detention. for the pupil/troublemaker? - a clean slate. Teacher fed up of pupil - says f**k the deal , detention for messing in corridor (at the very least kicking disputed)
Pupil 15 years old.

Stheno

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Your initial post was about the legally of detention!
The reasons for detention were very slow in coming.
The impression was given that it was his first detention, this changed later.
The impression was given was that he only got into trouble with one teacher, this changed later.
A mystery agreement that was reengaged on by the school is now being mentioned repeatedly?

The mystery agreement was that after the last episode where he refused to do the detention and OP took him out of school, he would start off with a clean slate. However OPs issue is that when he went back, the school made him do the detention that he had previously refused to do, despite the "clean slate" agreement being in place.

The_Valeyard

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Your initial post was about the legally of detention!
The reasons for detention were very slow in coming.
The impression was given that it was his first detention, this changed later.
The impression was given was that he only got into trouble with one teacher, this changed later.
A mystery agreement that was renaged on by the school is now being mentioned repeatedly?

Its one of those evolving stories

gormdubhgorm

Stheno wrote: »

The mystery agreement was that after the last episode where he refused to do the detention and OP took him out of school, he would start off with a clean slate. However OPs issue is that when he went back, the school made him do the detention that he had previously refused to do, despite the "clean slate" agreement being in place.

Oh right a clemency deal!

Stheno

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Oh right a clemency deal!

Yeah but I think OP thought the original sentence of detention was suspended as part of the deal

JohnBee

OP is you need help, I will actually provide a ladder to help you and your son down of you pedestal, and even offer up my spare time to help you build the worlds tiniest bridge to get over this tiny molehill.

In a way I pity your son. What he needs is a parent who tells him to cop on, do the detention, and get on with what is hopefully a long and healthy life. What your son DOES NOT need is a parent creating one huge fuss, which will no doubt irritate the teachers and principal and potentially mark him out as the guy with the crazy parent.

gormdubhgorm

Stheno wrote: »

Yeah but I think OP thought the original sentence of detention was suspended as part of the deal

Ah now the penny has dropped OP thinks clean slate means forget about original detention, when he fact they meant clean slate following detention and "let's start a fresh everyone" type comment

Juan bu

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

What was this mystery agreement OP and why was it enacted in the first place?

There was an agreement was made and it's no mystery I explained in earlier posts maybe you should read the thread

Juan bu

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Ah now the penny has dropped OP thinks clean slate means forget about original detention, when he fact they meant clean slate following detention and "let's start a fresh everyone" type comment

No you are wrong sorry to inform you

the_pen_turner

the only detail I see missing is
on the day he walked out, what did the teacher say or do that made him walk out.
if the teacher was bulling him then he was right to walk out but if the teacher was chastising him for doing wrong in the class then your son was wrong to walk out.



I have seen a few cases in my years in school a decade ago where students were singled out or 'bullied' by teachers. it happens all the time. every teacher has their favourites and least favourites. sometime teachers act out based on that

tayto lover

barney 20v wrote: »

Two 10 minute breaks to consume lunch ?
Sufficient ?? I think not.
Wouldn't be acceptable on a work environment with adults, why is it ok with kids?

Any teacher forcing such a policy on my kids would I assure you, not give me " the short shrift"

All for detention when required.

With regard to some of the overly-heavy children I see coming out of schools their diet is very poor and 10 minutes is enough time for anyone to consume enough food to live healthily.

byhookorbycrook

the_pen_turner wrote: »

the only detail I see missing is
on the day he walked out, what did the teacher say or do that made him walk out.
if the teacher was bulling him then he was right to walk out but if the teacher was chastising him for doing wrong in the class then your son was wrong to walk out.

If this child has been bullied by the teacher, then I'd have expected the Principal and VP to take the allegations extremely seriously. A proven allegation of bullying against a teacher would -rightly- be a cause for disciplinary action.

A class full of teenagers would be pretty quick to let the people investigating the allegations know if they felt there was truth in them.

OP, would you prefer your son be suspended and you had to have him at home for the day instead? He is not missing his education in this way,but if you would prefer to keep him at home for misbehavior, that is up to you.

And as to not settling in from primary, he is in 3rd year, I think he has had plenty time, don't you?

Juan bu

JohnBee wrote: »

OP is you need help, I will actually provide a ladder to help you and your son down of you pedestal, and even offer up my spare time to help you build the worlds tiniest bridge to get over this tiny molehill.

In a way I pity your son. What he needs is a parent who tells him to cop on, do the detention, and get on with what is hopefully a long and healthy life. What your son DOES NOT need is a parent creating one huge fuss, which will no doubt irritate the teachers and principal and potentially mark him out as the guy with the crazy parent.

Ok so you reckon I should allow an adult to bully a minor and say nothing just so teachers can do and say what they like and get away with it ,yeah that sounds totally ok ,NOT

Juan bu

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

If this child has been bullied by the teacher, then I'd have expected the Principal and VP to take the allegations extremely seriously. A proven allegation of bullying against a teacher would -rightly- be a cause for disciplinary action.

A class full of teenagers would be pretty quick to let the people investigating the allegations know if they felt there was truth in them.

OP, would you prefer your son be suspended and you had to have him at home for the day instead? He is not missing his education in this way,but if you would prefer to keep him at home for misbehavior, that is up to you.

And as to not settling in from primary, he is in 3rd year, I think he has had plenty time, don't you?

I agree and he has settled down in the beginning he found it difficult is what I said and as for my preference s I would prefer him to be able to attend school without teachers accusing him in the wrong and when teachers make agreement s they stick to them

Juan bu

JohnBee wrote: »

OP is you need help, I will actually provide a ladder to help you and your son down of you pedestal, and even offer up my spare time to help you build the worlds tiniest bridge to get over this tiny molehill.

In a way I pity your son. What he needs is a parent who tells him to cop on, do the detention, and get on with what is hopefully a long and healthy life. What your son DOES NOT need is a parent creating one huge fuss, which will no doubt irritate the teachers and principal and potentially mark him out as the guy with the crazy parent.

I dont uneed or want your pity and either does my son so you can keep it for yourself as your going to need it because your thinking is very narrow minded and if you are not willing to stand up for your child if they are accused in the wrong well that's just lazy parenting you go ahead and let your child be walked all over but that is just not my style

evolving_doors

Juan bu wrote: »

Ok so you reckon I should allow an adult to bully a minor and say nothing just so teachers can do and say what they like and get away with it ,yeah that sounds totally ok ,NOT

What type of resolution do you want?

Juan bu

Gebgbegb wrote: »

What type of resolution do you want?

Fair play and honesty

byhookorbycrook

Juan bu wrote: »

I agree and he has settled down in the beginning he found it difficult is what I said and as for my preference s I would prefer him to be able to attend school without teachers accusing him in the wrong and when teachers make agreement s they stick to them

Teachers- so more than one?

Juan bu

Juan bu wrote: »

Fair play and honesty

Let's hope this is the outcome.

Mary63

I really think miscommunication or maybe OP only listening to what she wants to hear is the problem.

If you contact the school Op you can clarify is the clean slate meant doing the detention and then starting off afresh or did it mean the detention didn't have to be done.Why would the school change its mind about the detention,is it because you cornered the girl who your son was alleged to have kicked and she concurred with your view,i.e. your son didn't kick her.

evolving_doors

Juan bu wrote: »

Fair play and honesty

That's fair enough I suppose.

What does your son want from the situation? If he's 15 then would he would probably be doing the mocks now before the Junior cert! Is he thinking that all of this 'he said/she said/my mother said/the teacher said/the principal said' will distract from his learning?

Is he/are you concerned about his studies?

Juan bu

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Teachers- so more than one?

Sorry one teacher accused him and the principal ,vice principal and the teacher made the agreement

Juan bu

Gebgbegb wrote: »

That's fair enough I suppose.

What does your son want from the situation? If he's 15 then would he would probably be doing the mocks now before the Junior cert! Is he thinking that all of this 'he said/she said/my mother said/the teacher said/the principal said' will distract from his learning?

Is he/are you concerned about his studies?

Of course I'm concerned about his studies and his junior cert that goes without saying this is why I wanted the issues resolved and was satisfied with the agreement that was made ,that was until the school renaged on the agreement

Stheno

Juan bu wrote: »

Of course I'm concerned about his studies and his junior cert that goes without saying this is why I wanted the issues resolved and was satisfied with the agreement that was made ,that was until the school renaged on the agreement

DId the agreement on a clean slate explicitly include him not having to do the outstanding detention?

Juan bu

Stheno wrote: »

DId the agreement on a clean slate explicitly include him not having to do the outstanding detention?

Look I don't know what a clean slate fresh start means in your world but in mine it means all is forgiven and forgotten about

aunt aggie

Juan bu wrote: »

Look I don't know what a clean slate fresh start means in your world but in mine it means all is forgiven and forgotten about

So you didn't get explicit clarification from the school?? This thread is beyond a joke. I really hope your meeting with school next week is more productive.

Stheno

Juan bu wrote: »

Look I don't know what a clean slate fresh start means in your world but in mine it means all is forgiven and forgotten about

I'd say that's your problem there. He was given detention that he refused to do, you took him out of school and then expected that when you went back in and agreed to a fresh start that he'd not have to do the outstanding detention.

BrianBoru00

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Such as? The rest of your post doesn't reference any mental gymnastics I have preformed so would you like to elaborate?



Some (including yourself) have attempted to put forward the teachers side by ignoring statements the OP made. Now if you legitimately think the OP is lying then fine, but if you do not then the position you and others put forward doesn't make sense. If the teacher genuinely saw a kick then why would she later changer her story? If the teacher believed the girl is lying about the kick to save her friend trouble then she would have stated that and stuck to her original story instead of changing it.




What holes? I've seen other people misreading and misquoting the OP, but I have not seen any holes in anything the OP has posted.




So because the OP used the word bullying we should dismiss half the points they are making as made up?



You could try actually reading the OP's posts, that might be a good place to start. They stated that it was all day detention. That has been stated multiple times through out the thread.


So either people not reading the thread, in which case why bother posting at all? Or they are being wilfully ignorant because "how dare someone accuse a teacher of bullying!".

On your mental gymnastics:

The amount of mental gymnastics going on in here to try to defend a teacher is clearly in the wrong is astounding.

It is far from clear. The only information we have is that the OP claims that a teacher is bullying her son. We're told the teacher changes her story from it being a kick to . . .and what exactly the teacher changed it to, we haven't got clarity.

On holes in the story:

What holes are in my story ??

1. The OPs son is being disciplined by being placed in the form teachers room for the entire day. There is no school in the country which has this policy for anything less than a serious or continuous breach of discipline yet we're being told that the son is being bullied - that doesn't add up as many contributors have said.
2. The OP claims her son gets only one 20 minute break during the day which is presumably during lunch meaning that he doesn't get the 10/15 minute morning break which is standard in any school I know of. If this is the case then the form teacher gets no break either which is most unusual.
3. you "removed him from detention" as the situation is "a little complicated" - that's a whole lot of holes right there - you jump right to bullying to explain the detention.


As regards reading the posts - I did.
The OP has yet to clarify (unless I missed it ) if there was a problem with any other teacher so we can only surmise there wasn't. In this case she has removed him from school because of one single teacher = more holes


As regards people coming down "on the teachers side".
Well to be fair - she s not here to defend herself.
Could she be bullying the student? Of course she could. But we haven't got all of the facts - we're only going by one posters comments - so we're getting most of the information second hand.

To recap on the facts the OP has told us :
Her son has been withdrawn from general class population and placed in the room of their year head.
She also claims a particular teacher has bullied her son (without providing any information as to how this manifests itself.

It may seem that many people are on the teachers side but you seem oblivious to the fact that your doing the opposite and taking the OPs side and taking their word for what happened as fact. Being dubious about the OP & sons stories is not putting the teacher on a pedestal.

aunt aggie

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

1. The OPs son is being disciplined by being placed in the form teachers room for the entire day. There is no school in the country which has this policy for anything less than a serious or continuous breach of discipline yet we're being told that the son is being bullied - that doesn't add up as many contributors have said.

Phrasing used by BrianBoru twigged something in the back of my mind from teaching in England. I have read the whole thread (unfortunately) but a lot of posters were stuck on the lunchtime element of detention.

If OP's son is in tutor/year head's room for the full day, then this is an in house suspension. It's rarely used in Irish schools and it's much more serious than a lunchtime detention. I have only seen it used in England, in instances of bullying, racism and physical violence. It is used to remove students from class and let things calm down before returning them to timetabled classes. Also may be used in circumstances where external suspension isn't possible or in best interests of student. I know this might not be the situation with OPs son or his school, but we definitely don't have all the information here.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't an accusation of bullying of a pupil by a teacher be investigated?

You did inform the principal of this at your last meeting, didn't you OP?

byhookorbycrook

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't an accusation of bullying of a pupil by a teacher be investigated?

You did inform the principal of this at your last meeting, didn't you OP?

Yes, of course it would have to be investigated. As I already stated any such allegation would be treated as serious in the extreme.

It would also go before the Board of Management:

"At least once in every school term, the Principal
must provide a report to the Board of Management setting out:
(i) the overall number of bullying cases reported
(ii)confirmation that that all cases referred to at (1) above have been or are being dealt with in accordance with the school’s antibullying policy
and the Anti-Bullying Procedures for Primary and Post-Primary schools "


https://www.education.ie/en/Publications/Policy-Reports/Anti-Bullying-Procedures-for-Primary-and-Post-Primary-Schools.pdf

gormdubhgorm

OP just curious:
When you were around your son's age did you get detention?
When/If you received detention what was your parents reaction?
What is your husband's \partners reaction to this current incident with his son?

Mary63

OP referred in her original post to an in house detention,maybe the school call this an in house suspension which is a completely different thing.

It does sound very serious and any further disciplinary matters could lead to a full suspension.

How difficult is it to expel someone now.

seavill

Near impossible

Juan bu

Stheno wrote: »

I'd say that's your problem there. He was given detention that he refused to do, you took him out of school and then expected that when you went back in and agreed to a fresh start that he'd not have to do the outstanding detention.

He never refused to do any detention

Juan bu

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

OP just curious:
When you were around your son's age did you get detention?
When/If you received detention what was your parents reaction?
What is your husband's \partners reaction to this current incident with his son?

He is annoyed with the school but also feels there is no point fighting the school because teachers always win

Stheno

Juan bu wrote: »

Yes it was and was detained after I had removed him from it a few days previous the sitiuation is little complicated , as one teacher in the school was bullying him ,I had meeting with school over the issues and a line was meant to be drawn under everything clean slate fresh start was agreed on and then they go and do this

Juan bu wrote: »

He never refused to do any detention

So he did the original detention for the day, then you removed him from the school and he only returned after this fresh clean slate start was agreed, and then he had to do another full day detention for nothing?

Juan bu

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

OP just curious:
When you were around your son's age did you get detention?
When/If you received detention what was your parents reaction?
What is your husband's \partners reaction to this current incident with his son?

No I didn't get detention why that matters is beyond me