Secondary school detention concerns

aunt aggie

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

1. The OPs son is being disciplined by being placed in the form teachers room for the entire day. There is no school in the country which has this policy for anything less than a serious or continuous breach of discipline yet we're being told that the son is being bullied - that doesn't add up as many contributors have said.

Phrasing used by BrianBoru twigged something in the back of my mind from teaching in England. I have read the whole thread (unfortunately) but a lot of posters were stuck on the lunchtime element of detention.

If OP's son is in tutor/year head's room for the full day, then this is an in house suspension. It's rarely used in Irish schools and it's much more serious than a lunchtime detention. I have only seen it used in England, in instances of bullying, racism and physical violence. It is used to remove students from class and let things calm down before returning them to timetabled classes. Also may be used in circumstances where external suspension isn't possible or in best interests of student. I know this might not be the situation with OPs son or his school, but we definitely don't have all the information here.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't an accusation of bullying of a pupil by a teacher be investigated?

You did inform the principal of this at your last meeting, didn't you OP?

byhookorbycrook

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't an accusation of bullying of a pupil by a teacher be investigated?

You did inform the principal of this at your last meeting, didn't you OP?

Yes, of course it would have to be investigated. As I already stated any such allegation would be treated as serious in the extreme.

It would also go before the Board of Management:

"At least once in every school term, the Principal
must provide a report to the Board of Management setting out:
(i) the overall number of bullying cases reported
(ii)confirmation that that all cases referred to at (1) above have been or are being dealt with in accordance with the school’s antibullying policy
and the Anti-Bullying Procedures for Primary and Post-Primary schools "


https://www.education.ie/en/Publications/Policy-Reports/Anti-Bullying-Procedures-for-Primary-and-Post-Primary-Schools.pdf

gormdubhgorm

OP just curious:
When you were around your son's age did you get detention?
When/If you received detention what was your parents reaction?
What is your husband's \partners reaction to this current incident with his son?

Mary63

OP referred in her original post to an in house detention,maybe the school call this an in house suspension which is a completely different thing.

It does sound very serious and any further disciplinary matters could lead to a full suspension.

How difficult is it to expel someone now.

seavill

Near impossible

Juan bu

Stheno wrote: »

I'd say that's your problem there. He was given detention that he refused to do, you took him out of school and then expected that when you went back in and agreed to a fresh start that he'd not have to do the outstanding detention.

He never refused to do any detention

Juan bu

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

OP just curious:
When you were around your son's age did you get detention?
When/If you received detention what was your parents reaction?
What is your husband's \partners reaction to this current incident with his son?

He is annoyed with the school but also feels there is no point fighting the school because teachers always win

Stheno

Juan bu wrote: »

Yes it was and was detained after I had removed him from it a few days previous the sitiuation is little complicated , as one teacher in the school was bullying him ,I had meeting with school over the issues and a line was meant to be drawn under everything clean slate fresh start was agreed on and then they go and do this

Juan bu wrote: »

He never refused to do any detention

So he did the original detention for the day, then you removed him from the school and he only returned after this fresh clean slate start was agreed, and then he had to do another full day detention for nothing?

Juan bu

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

OP just curious:
When you were around your son's age did you get detention?
When/If you received detention what was your parents reaction?
What is your husband's \partners reaction to this current incident with his son?

No I didn't get detention why that matters is beyond me

80s Child

Juan bu wrote: »

He is annoyed with the school but also feels there is no point fighting the school because teachers always win

May I ask, what examples of your son being bullied by said teacher did you explain to the principal? Also, when you did this, was that teacher present?

Another poster mentioned that this is more of an in school suspension, if so, it is a lot more serious than detention and there would have to be pretty serious grounds if this is the case.

byhookorbycrook

I presume you read and agreed to the school discipline code when you enrolled your son?
A number of posters have asked that you outline exactly what form this alleged bullying is taking, can you enlighten us please?

If the Principal, VP and teacher are all picking on your son, why on earth would you leave him in that school??

Stheno

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I presume you read and agreed to the school discipline code when you enrolled your son?
A number of posters have asked that you outline exactly what form this alleged bullying is taking, can you enlighten us please?

If the Principal, VP and teacher are all picking on your son, why on earth would you leave him in that school??

At this stage to be honest with the OPs difficulty in answering questions such as the above, and their tendancy to only answer questions in a light which makes their son look good, that they are viewing this entire incident through "the world is attacking my son" tinted glasses.

OP appears to have a lacking of understanding of how serious an in house detention is, if a school feel a need to remove a pupil from their education for an entire day in this manner, it indicates severe discipline issues.

OP appears to fail to recognise that. I cannot imagine any school entertaining such an action for "bullying" purposes, as it would need to be accounted for.

amdublin

I'm totally confused.

What exactly did the boy do that the school imposed the detention on him??
Specifically.

Also what's his track record like? I am assuming they didn't jump from absolute not issues/ggood bahviour straight to detention?

I'd assume there is a whole batch of paper trail leading up to this detention.

If this was me and i was like the op and didnt agree with it, I'd be saying to my son: ok get this day out of the way. Then put your head down, keep your nose clean and get on with your junior cert.

Op I think this is causing a distraction for you and your son about the more important things.
like in life there are always things that are unfair or you have to do things you don't want to have to do (e.g your boss tells you to do something) and you just have to do it, move on, and make sure it doesn't happen again.

seavill

Op how did you know your son was in the original detention that you came to the school to remove him from. How long into it did you take him out (ie how much of that days in house detention had he completed?)

What happened for him to walk out of class in the first place? Surely the teacher dealt with the corridor issue there and then on the corridor so what happened in the classroom?

beveragelady

Either this is the case:

Juan bu wrote: »

He never refused to do any detention

Or this is the case:

Juan bu wrote: »

it was a few days later and there was no other altercation he was told he had to redo it as he refused to do it till they told him what the detention was for

It so difficult to get clear answers from you, OP. You hear what you want to hear, remember what you want to remember, and you react accordingly. This thread has probably been a complete waste of your time because you're not taking anything on board, you're simply reacting defensively.

The fact that you keep throwing the word 'bullying' as though it is a get-out-of-jail-free card is symptomatic of your problem. Your son must have a history of fairly serious misbehaviour or he wouldn't be in this situation.

Obviously you're not going to tell us here if he's had dealings with the guards or anything, but you need to take a long objective look at his pattern of behaviour.

I had to have a serious talk with a parent recently at a PT meeting. I chronicled a students disruption and bad manners, and told her it absolutely has to change. Then I asked "Does that tally with what other teachers are telling you?" knowing for certain that she would hear a very similar story from a number of teachers that evening.

She said "Yeah pretty much. Nobody has a bad word to say about him really."

"But he has been in a lot of trouble, and not just with me," I persisted, amazed at her magical powers of selective hearing.

"No, just you. Must be a personality clash."

"Well, he did a string of detentions because he loudly insulted the teacher in X class. And he's not allowed back into woodwork because his behaviour there is dangerous to others."

"I meant recently."

The same kid is involved in an ongoing minor garda matter but I knew better than to bring it up. The mother went on her merry way, oblivious to the fact that her son is a troublemaker and she's part of the problem.

SAMTALK

For sure beveragelady there are parents like this in every school.
I just think people are a bit harsh with OP as people seem to be making the assumption that her child is bad/trouble maker.

haveringchick

It's tough parenting teenagers
I know because I have one
The style of parenting in this country went from, for example,
Johnny comes in from school, his mam, who has 6 younger children, is hanging washing on the line. Johnny says
"The teacher slapped me so hard I fell off me chair"
Mammy snaps "you must have been annoying him! Stand there while I hit you too"
To
Johnny comes home after being notified that he will be in detention and
OP saying "don't let them teachers tell you what to do. Anyone telling you what to do is a bully. I'll go down and sort them out"
It's gone from abuse of children, to "my child's rights and entitlements to do and go wherever he wants without any restrictions trump everyone else's rights"
Not for all parents of course. But for a small cohort who support one another and will continue to blame everything and everyone else as their little darling gets deeper and deeper into trouble

SAMTALK

haveringchick wrote: »

It's tough parenting teenagers
I know because I have one
The style of parenting in this country went from, for example,
Johnny comes in from school, his mam, who has 6 younger children, is hanging washing on the line. Johnny says
"The teacher slapped me so hard I fell off me chair"
Mammy snaps "you must have been annoying him! Stand there while I hit you too"
To
Johnny comes home after being notified that he will be in detention and
OP saying "don't let them teachers tell you what to do. Anyone telling you what to do is a bully. I'll go down and sort them out"
It's gone from abuse of children, to "my child's rights and entitlements to do and go wherever he wants without any restrictions trump everyone else's rights"
Not for all parents of course. But for a small cohort who support one another and will continue to blame everything and everyone else as their little darling gets deeper and deeper into trouble

Yes I agree we all know some parents like that but the point Im making is that OP deserves the benefit of doubt and not the assumption that she is one of these parents.
Sometimes the teachers get it wrong and sometimes the parents do

weldoninhio

Juan bu wrote: »

Yeah and the teacher only has what she says she seen and not only that changed the story of what she said she seen ,seems to me a lot of people on here seem to have something to do with the teaching profession as you really can't seem to believe or comprehend that a teacher can bully a teacher can be wrong and a teacher can lie

But you have changed your story over the course of this thread, so either you lied, are lying or don't know what happened at all are are being suckered by your kid.


Going by your logic of course.

Arbiter of Good Taste

SAMTALK wrote: »

Yes I agree we all know some parents like that but the point Im making is that OP deserves the benefit of doubt and not the assumption that she is one of these parents.
Sometimes the teachers get it wrong and sometimes the parents do

To be honest, it is very difficult to give the OP much benefit of the doubt at this stage. She completely refuses to take on any criticism, no matter how reasonable and she is giving selective snippets of information which seem to change when suits.

weldoninhio

Juan bu wrote: »

I've had the chat with him already , has told me everything and in not stupid I know teenagers won't tell everything and I really wouldn't be following this up if I thought there was not something to it ,thank you

This statement has me baffled.

You state he told you everything. Then you state that you are not stupid, and that you know teenagers WON'T tell everything.

So are you stupid for believing he told you everything.

Or do you believe that he hadn't told you everything?? As I said, baffling.

SAMTALK

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

To be honest, it is very difficult to give the OP much benefit of the doubt at this stage. She completely refuses to take on any criticism, no matter how reasonable and she is giving selective snippets of information which seem to change when suits.

I see your point but I hate the way people attack posters sometimes. Id like to give her the benefit as I dont get that she is always in the school complaining and she did say her son is no angel so hasnt her head buried in the sand.

I dont like the vibe that parents shouldnt question the teachers about their children / discipline.

I have one child left in seconday school and have only had to go to specific teacher twice re problem. Both times it turned out she had her facts wrong but a lot of parents have problems with her and the fact that she denies things she has said to parents when confronted by principal.

Posters saying that child has to obey rules which is 100% correct but the other side of that is if child feels he/she is being bullied/picked on they should also be able to stand up for themselves as this is not just something that goes on on Social Media

weldoninhio

Juan bu wrote: »

When the teacher rang me about the incident she said it was a kick when I confronted her face to face she changed her story to he was pulling out of her bag

This is another story change by you?!?!

gormdubhgorm

At this stage the parent sounds more trouble for the school then the pupil. It does not seem to me that the teacher is "bullying" the pupil. But the parent is bullying the teacher!
The OP seems to be carrying out her frustration about her sons behaviour on this one teacher.
We know from the OPs other posts that her son has had detention in the past.
Her son got detention from more then one teacher in the past, you have to read the posts carefully for this nugget as a vague answer was given.

Juan bu

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

At this stage the parent sounds more trouble for the school then the pupil. It does not seem to me that the teacher is "bullying" the pupil. But the parent is bullying the teacher!
The OP seems to be carrying out her frustration about her sons behaviour on this one teacher.
We know from the OPs other posts that her son has had detention in the past.
Her son got detention from more then one teacher in the past, you have to read the posts carefully for this nugget as a vague answer was given.

To every one on here who seems to think my son must be a nightmare student I can tell you he is not ,yes he has had previous offences in school for Minor things like wrong shoes forgetting books etc and although I agree it's not acceptable it's not the crime of the century either but rules are there for a reason my original post is about his detention but the leading up to this detention was the fact that a teacher was bullying him picking on him what ever way you would rather put it ,but the fact is a teacher has accused my son in the wrong he has been punished in the wrong and teachers have lied they school has renaged on an agreement also I'm merely trying to let parents know maybe they shouldn't believe everything a teacher tells them and not to be afraid to question a teacher
Some parents won't challenge a school of the fear that it will make things worse for they're son or daughter ,teachers need to be taken off the pedestals that some people have them on that day is well and truly gone teacher do get it wrong and teachers can bully students so stop buring your head in the sand wise up a little ,oh and just because a student might have been in trouble in the past doesn't mean they are automatically trouble makers or in the wrong all the time

spurious

I'd say your son picks up on your attitude to teachers, which may be part of the problem.

stoplooklisten

It's two days since you started this thread, I presume you have been up at the school yesterday or this morning and the issue has been resolved?

janes1234

spurious wrote:

I'd say your son picks up on your attitude to teachers, which may be part of the problem.

Agreed!!

Juan bu

stoplooklisten wrote: »

It's two days since you started this thread, I presume you have been up at the school yesterday or this morning and the issue has been resolved?

No unfornately it is the mid term break so have to wait till Monday