Dog killed

oppenheimer1

Unfortunately, today, our Jack Russell was killed and I am struggling to figure out what happened. Perhaps some other owners here may have had similar unfortunate experiences.

Anyway, our JRT was out roaming in our large rural enclosed garden as she normally is. She would wander in and out of the house while I am there but I had to leave for half an hour to go to the shop. When I got back our JRT was dead in the corner of the garden with scratches and two puncture wounds to the neck. Our JRT had a feisty personality and I think it got into an argument with the wrong sort. My father thinks it was a pine marten as some have been spotted nearby. Or could it be mink? Would they be able to take on something the size of a JRT and win?

topmanamillion

Sorry to hear about your dog.
There'd be a few suspects.
It would be unusual for a pine marten to kill a dog but if he had cornered one I could see how it would attack.
A Mink would certainly attack. I've heard first hand accounts of people finding a Mink in their chicken coop and the Mink turns on them.
A fox may also attack if cornered.
I don't think you'll ever know for sure.
Whatever it was it's most likely your dog cornered it and it retaliated.

jungleman

Unlikely to be a pine marten. I actually just did a study on them last month and that doesn't fit in with pine marten behaviour at all. I'd also doubt if a pine marten could bring down a jack russell, strength wise. A mink, possibly. Do you live near a river?

A fox? Unlikely as well. They're skittish, and would smell the urine of your dog around the garden and would probably know to avoid it.

Are there any other large or vicious dogs around? Maybe one came into your garden, grabbed it by the neck and shook it?

Also, sorry to hear about it. That's a really horrible way to find a pet.

Knine

I would guess another larger dog. Jack Russells are designed for hunting themselves. The small animals mentioned would be fair game for them. I have friends who use this breed for hunting. A PM might shed more light on it.

Sorry about your dog.

fits

I would guess mink. They can be very aggressive if cornered.

oppenheimer1

fits wrote: »

I would guess mink. They can be very aggressive if cornered.

Thanks for your input. We do live near a watercourse and mink have been spotted over the years - though none recently.

Knine

Speaking to my friend who is one of the top Breeders of Jack Russells in Ireland today she reckoned it was very unlikely to have been mink or a Pinemartin unless it was a very old or tiny dog. Terriers are actually used to hunt these & they are much more likely to try to escape then take on & over power a terrier. I know my own terriers would be more then a match!

DBB

Sorry to hear about your dog... That was not a nice experience at all.
You say there were puncture wounds and scratches... Did you get any idea of the distance between the puncture wounds, which might indicate the size of the teeth, and/or the jaw size of the attacker?
The distance between nail-marks on the scratch marks might indicate the size of the claws or feet?
Fully understood if you don't want to go into the forensics of it, just thought it might help to narrow down what did this to your poor wee dog

junospider

No way a mink or pine marten can kill a dog. I would be almost certain it was a bigger dog.
sorry for your loss.

ButtersSuki

Just sorry to hear about your dog

jimf

puncture wounds and scratches would indicate a mink to me

I do know a neighbour had his jack Russell killed by a mink a number of years ago was a young dog but not very well built

sorry for your loss

Yintang

Can you ask your local vet to have a look? - he/she might have a better idea judging by the teeth and scratch marks.
So sorry to hear about your dog, that really is sad...

topmanamillion

As far as people saying "pine martens and Mink can't kill a dog" are misinformed. It's unusual but not impossible.
I once had a cat killed by a rat right in front of me.
A Mink or Pine Marten turning on a terrier is very possible.

kathleen37

I must admit, I first thought mink - as had one attack me and my Dad when it was going for some of our geese. (My Dad had a shotgun but we were both so shocked when the thing turned and came for both of us, we ran...)

I'm so sorry about your Pup.

Knine

topmanamillion wrote: »

As far as people saying "pine martens and Mink can't kill a dog" are misinformed. It's unusual but not impossible.
I once had a cat killed by a rat right in front of me.
A Mink or Pine Marten turning on a terrier is very possible.

That really depends on the terrier. I'm big time into my terriers & if one atttacked mine I doubt it would last too long. I spoke to friends of mine who work their terriers & they have killed mink. I don't think people are misinformed. It would just be unusual. I still reckon it is more likely another dog did it.

fits

If the mink gets latched onto the throat, it could definitely kill a small dog.

I really doubt it was a pine marten, they are very shy, and wouldn't usually come so close to a house.

Knine

fits wrote: »

If the mink gets latched onto the throat, it could definitely kill a small dog.

I really doubt it was a pine marten, they are very shy, and wouldn't usually come so close to a house.

A small dog maybe but a terrier would be unlikely. Terriers are designed to fight & dispatch small furry creatures.

seamus

Badger, perhaps? Definitely big enough to do serious injury to any terrier, with claws and teeth to match.

I agree that asking your vet may be the best idea to get some answers.

convert

Sorry to hear about your dog, OP. It must have been awful to come home and find her like that.

The 2 puncture wounds on the neck sound like a mink. Even though they're small, they are very strong and I've seen one dragging a large rabbit the size of cat across the field with relative ease.

Knine

My cat who was killed by a large dog had two puncture wounds on his neck & a few bits of fur missing. His death was actually caused by the dog shaking him.

DBB

convert wrote: »

The 2 puncture wounds on the neck sound like a mink.

How can that be concluded? All carnivores can cause 2 (or more) puncture wounds, whether it's a dog, a fox, a cat, a mustelid big or small... If we knew how far apart the wounds were, and what size the actual punctures were, then it should be possible to have fair old stab at what killed the op's dog. As cheeky and tenacious as mink may be, it's not right to blame any one species in the absence of the above info!

oppenheimer1

DBB wrote: »

Sorry to hear about your dog... That was not a nice experience at all.
You say there were puncture wounds and scratches... Did you get any idea of the distance between the puncture wounds, which might indicate the size of the teeth, and/or the jaw size of the attacker?
The distance between nail-marks on the scratch marks might indicate the size of the claws or feet?
Fully understood if you don't want to go into the forensics of it, just thought it might help to narrow down what did this to your poor wee dog

OP here again, thanks for everyones input so far, it has helped us understand what happened a little better. just to provide a little further detail - without getting too gory: The two puncture wounds were about one and a half finger widths apart and one of them appears to have struck a major artery as a lot of blood emanated from one. It appears my poor JRT bled out. All I can be thankful for is that I understand its a relatively quick and painless way to go. The scratches were to her snout and face and snout were again about one and a half finger widths apart. There may have been other injuries but they were not visible for the reason given above.

My dog was 12 and was probably a little past her prime but was still very sprightly. She was a great little companion and a good working dog too in her day. She will be missed.

DBB

Jeez, the poor old thing. Very sad. I hope you're right that it would have been quick for her, and who knows? Maybe she was on a terrier high, having an oul barney with a chasable small animal
You'd have to be thinking along the lines of a smaller predator now alright, with that information, that a fox, badger, or other dog are ruled out. Which puts one of the smaller mustelids in the frame... Mink? Pine Martin? Maybe even an escaped ferret? Or, just putting it out there... A cat? In self defence perhaps?

Knine

If I was going by my finger lenght that woud be a decent sized bite although I'm tall! I would say that would be similar to one of my dogs who tend to close their jaws hanging onto something ( such as the unfortunate herring gull recently)

Pic of mink teeth added to give an idea of size.

Poor poor dog!

DBB

Finger width, not finger length
That'd make the space between the canines less than an inch.

Knine

DBB wrote: »

Finger width, not finger length
That'd make the space between the canines less than an inch.

Lol that is what happens when you get no sleep!

Kovu

fits wrote: »

If the mink gets latched onto the throat, it could definitely kill a small dog.

I really doubt it was a pine marten, they are very shy, and wouldn't usually come so close to a house.

So sorry to hear about your dog OP She lived a good life!

Martens seem to be getting bolder and are far more common than they used to be. Isn't there talk of lifting the ban on them in some areas as they have become a pest.
We have one (or more!) here and there are kits every year. The adults will often come into our back garden right outside the back door to where the catfood dishes are and eat from them. Even turning on the light doesn't spook them.

sillysmiles

Kovu wrote: »

Martens seem to be getting bolder and are far more common than they used to be. Isn't there talk of lifting the ban on them in some areas as they have become a pest.

I know this is off topic, but what makes them pests? Them becoming more common, and thus more sightings of them, doesn't necessarily make them bolder.

Kovu

sillysmiles wrote: »

I know this is off topic, but what makes them pests? Them becoming more common, and thus more sightings of them, doesn't necessarily make them bolder.

They are similar to mink, will kill chickens/pheasants/young birds etc, but they will climb trees to get at the young in nests whereas mink can't climb. Martens were known as shy, retiring animals when mink were more commonly seen and known to be vicious. Martens were mainly in forests and woodland and not really seen very often but similar to foxes, are apparently adapting to humans in their habitat. They have a particular love for nesting in attics or under a roof too. Not a very endearing habit as they are not supposed be killed or moved!

jungleman

Kovu wrote: »

They are similar to mink, will kill chickens/pheasants/young birds etc, but they will climb trees to get at the young in nests whereas mink can't climb. Martens were known as shy, retiring animals when mink were more commonly seen and known to be vicious. Martens were mainly in forests and woodland and not really seen very often but similar to foxes, are apparently adapting to humans in their habitat. They have a particular love for nesting in attics or under a roof too. Not a very endearing habit as they are not supposed be killed or moved!

In fairness to the pine marten, they're in a completely different situation to mink. They're indigenous to Ireland, not like our American mink species. The mink are pests, no question of that.

I'm delighted to see pine marten finally getting back on their feet. It's great news for the red squirrel population. Good for the Irish eco system in general too!