chargepoint cable/install advice

slicedpanman

Hi all...
had the visit from ESB eCars (contractor) today to inspect before installing the charge point - and got a "not yet" from them

Our drive is a bit of a distance from the fuse board (>10m) and we also need to go under a section of cobble lock. So, he said if we get the cable laid from the fuse board to the driveway he'll call back and do the install.

So, my questions are;
a) how much does 20 meters of 6mm2 twin and earth cable cost? (and where to get?)
b) is that cable sufficient for a 20m distance (and also to allow a future upgrade to a 6.6Kw charger)
c) Anyone know a good electrician in the Limerick area that could do this?

thanks,
spm

Rafal

Perhaps my experience could help you, as I also needed a longer cable run to the driveway. See this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057538444

slicedpanman

Rafal wrote: »

Perhaps my experience could help you, as I also needed a longer cable run to the driveway. See this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057538444

Thanks Rafal... Where did you get your armoured cable from?
The installer basically said if I get the cable laid, non even connected, he would take care of the rest on the free install

mylesm

slicedpanman wrote: »

Thanks Rafal... Where did you get your armoured cable from?
The installer basically said if I get the cable laid, non even connected, he would take care of the rest on the free install

Any Electrical Wholesaler will have it I see you are in Limerick heres one

http://www.swe.ie/

Rafal

slicedpanman wrote: »

Thanks Rafal... Where did you get your armoured cable from?
The installer basically said if I get the cable laid, non even connected, he would take care of the rest on the free install

My installer, Nigel M. Daly & Son Electrical, provided it. Main number is 051-390606. I'll PM you his mobile number. I know they cover a large part of Ireland.

slicedpanman

mylesm wrote: »

Any Electrical Wholesaler will have it I see you are in Limerick heres one

http://www.swe.ie/

thanks mylesm - I'm actually currently on a contract in a building directly opposite SWE in Limerick

mylesm

slicedpanman wrote: »

thanks mylesm - I'm actually currently on a contract in a building directly opposite SWE in Limerick

No Bother you will be looking for a price on 3x6Sq SWA Cable (SWA Steel Wire Armoured)

mundogas

Duplicate

mundogas

If its the ABL SURSUM unit that is installed by Ecars, I was able to set to 32amp charging from 16amps on my own unit. I got an electrician to upgrade breaker and cable. I confirmed with the manufacturer that the unit is rated for 32amps and set to 16amps by default. Lead and software required to change setting though. Ecars are not keen on 32amp chargers for whatever reason. But it is handy to have faster charging at home. Make sure you get the key for opening the charger lid off the installer.

slicedpanman

thanks all for the tips... 3x6Sq SWA Cable (SWA Steel Wire Armoured) is exactly what the eCars contractor is looking for
but my car dealer has come through for me - he is getting his electrician to buy and lay the cable for me at no cost - happy days
should be ready to call eCars back to finish off the install by the middle of next week

getting excited now, could be ready to collect the car in a week

Rafal

I may be confused now, but is it 6 sq mm or 10 sq mm that a 32A of that distance requires?

slicedpanman

Rafal wrote: »

I may be confused now, but is it 6 sq mm or 10 sq mm that a 32A of that distance requires?

Nigel has specifically asked me to get

Nigel wrote:

3X6Sq SWA

for a 32A trip switch - I'm assuming/hoping that he is correct

Rafal

I searched, but I cannot see any notes in my email about the cable gauge. I thought it was 10 sq mm, but I may be wrong. If you drop him an email asking and explaining that one of his former clients who has 32A (this is the important part) thinks he got 10 sq mm, he will have a chance to check and hopefully not be too frustrated with me confusing you and everyone else.

slicedpanman

I've e-mailed Nigel just there now... thanks Rafal - also good to be certain about these things before the cable is in

mundogas

mundogas wrote: »

If its the ABL SURSUM unit that is installed by Ecars, I was able to set to 32amp charging from 16amps on my own unit. I got an electrician to upgrade breaker and cable. I confirmed with the manufacturer that the unit is rated for 32amps and set to 16amps by default. Lead and software required to change setting though.

Interesting. Do you have any more details on how to convert the unit to 32A?

mundogas

Hi samih, it uses a rs485 protocol so needs a laptop to connect to the charger. Easy to do once sorted but it took me a while to get the necessary software and dongle to work. If you search the ABL SURSUM website you will see a download reference to an EVCC. It is the part of the wallbox that tells the car the maximum charge current. All parts of my ABL charger are rated for 40amps or more. Nameplate also said 230V 50Hz 16A (32A) so I email ABL and they confirmed it was suitable for 32 amp charging.

mundogas

mundogas wrote: »

Hi samih, it uses a rs485 protocol so needs a laptop to connect to the charger. Easy to do once sorted but it took me a while to get the necessary software and dongle to work. If you search the ABL SURSUM website you will see a download reference to an EVCC. It is the part of the wallbox that tells the car the maximum charge current. All parts of my ABL charger are rated for 40amps or more. Nameplate also said 230V 50Hz 16A (32A) so I email ABL and they confirmed it was suitable for 32 amp charging.

The description says: "EVSE charge monitoring, charge control, in accordance with IEC 61851-1 Mode 3, charging current pre-setting 16A via serial interface, adjustable from 6A to 80A, 4PU"

Cool. I'm quite used to working with serial stuff, RS232 mainly. The speed seems to be 38400,8,1,-

RS485, 38400Bd, 8 Datenbit, 1 Stopbit, kein parity

And the installation manual has all the commands, sweet! Command !n 15 0006 seems to set the maximum current to 32A.

mundogas

Second half of that document is in English

mundogas

mundogas wrote: »

Second half of that document is in English

Yea, noticed that alright. Ordered a RS232->RS485 adapter from ebay. Looks like this will be a really cost effective (adapter was about €4 inc del from China) way to upgrade to 32A charging point. Of course will need to buy 2 x 40A RCBOs too.

mundogas

samih wrote: »

Yea, noticed that alright. Ordered a RS232->RS485 adapter from ebay. Looks like this will be a really cost effective (adapter was about €4 inc del from China) way to upgrade to 32A charging point. Of course will need to buy 2 x 40A RCBOs too.

Do you need 2 x 40A RCBOs?

mundogas

mundogas wrote: »

Do you need 2 x 40A RCBOs?

I was just thinking that I might replace the one in the charger itself with just a MCB as the RCBOs seem a quite pricy. There is no point really having one there if the fuse board already has a dedicated RCBO for the circuit.

mundogas

As far as I remember the RCBO in my charger was 63A and the contactor was 40A. So from charger end I needed to do nothing but change the setting on EEVC.

Seesee

Just had our charger installed this morning. It was John who works with Nigel. We are 44m from the fuseboard ourselves so also had to get amoured cabling etc. etc. Quite a bit of labour involved in this case but all done and ready for car which we hope to pick up on Monday or Tuesday!

mundogas

mundogas wrote: »

As far as I remember the RCBO in my charger was 63A and the contactor was 40A. So from charger end I needed to do nothing but change the setting on EEVC.

Mine is the same. Smashing!

Rafal

Seesee wrote: »

Just had our charger installed this morning. It was John who works with Nigel. We are 44m from the fuseboard ourselves so also had to get amoured cabling etc. etc. Quite a bit of labour involved in this case but all done and ready for car which we hope to pick up on Monday or Tuesday!

It was also John/Nigel who did my install.

Amazing news that you guys figured out that the 16A ESB charge point can be software-updated to 32A. I could have saved a lot of money! Except I wanted a tethered one anyway, so went with the Rolec.

Well done, nerds win again.

mylesm

Rafal wrote: »

It was also John/Nigel who did my install.

Amazing news that you guys figured out that the 16A ESB charge point can be software-updated to 32A. I could have saved a lot of money! Except I wanted a tethered one anyway, so went with the Rolec.

Well done, nerds win again.

I also Converted mine to a Tethered



https://www.dropbox.com/s/sn1gte3zy8ezz7n/2016-01-08%2012.25.36.jpg?dl=0



mylesm

Rafal

mylesm wrote: »

I also Converted mine to a Tethered



https://www.dropbox.com/s/sn1gte3zy8ezz7n/2016-01-08%2012.25.36.jpg?dl=0



mylesm

Very nice, except you are making me feel bad that I did not know you could so easily turn the ESB 16A into a 32A, and a tethered one! I could have saved €400. Oh well, let's hope my Rolec gives me good service, at least.

stesaurus

Checked mine and I need to upgrade the rcbo as it's only rated for 25a. Not sure about the cabling though, any idea how to tell?

mundogas

s.welstead wrote: »

Checked mine and I need to upgrade the rcbo as it's only rated for 25a. Not sure about the cabling though, any idea how to tell?

Can you see and of the writing on the cable where it is visible? The 25a is one fitted by the installer. There is another one in the abl unit also. That should be 63a. But you need a key to open lid to check.

slicedpanman

mundogas wrote: »

Can you see and of the writing on the cable where it is visible? The 25a is one fitted by the installer. There is another one in the abl unit also. That should be 63a. But you need a key to open lid to check.

Hi mundogas, do the installers give you a key, by default, for the unit when they fit it? Or do you need to ask for it?

mundogas

slicedpanman wrote: »

Hi mundogas, do the installers give you a key, by default, for the unit when they fit it? Or do you need to ask for it?

I saw the key and asked about it. If you call the installer they should be able to send you one. I can't recall the name of installer ecars use.

stesaurus

mundogas wrote: »

Can you see and of the writing on the cable where it is visible? The 25a is one fitted by the installer. There is another one in the abl unit also. That should be 63a. But you need a key to open lid to check.

It's at my parents place so will check it out when up next. I'll post a pic of cable and maybe someone will know

slicedpanman wrote: »

Hi mundogas, do the installers give you a key, by default, for the unit when they fit it? Or do you need to ask for it?

The installer left my keys along with the USB key that had the manuals. I'd imagine they're standard so if you're stuck I'm sure someone could give you a loan.

BoatMad

Just a comment that if you upgrade to 32KW EVSE, you need to ensure you mains supply cable is 6mm2 at least

True BoatMad. I reckon the installer may have used 4 or even 2.5mm2 cable in our installation. There does not seem to be any labeling on the cable so hard to say without actually disconnecting it.

BoatMad

samih wrote: »

True BoatMad. I reckon the installer may have used 4 or even 2.5mm2 cable in our installation. There does not seem to be any labeling on the cable so hard to say without actually disconnecting it.

2.5 would be sufficient for a 15A, but that its

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

2.5 would be sufficient for a 15A, but that its

Probably 4mm^2 so. --- The serial interface won't be here for a while and not in a particularly big hurry to sort this out anyway. I see that this could turn to one of these "best intentions" projects.

BoatMad

samih wrote: »

Probably 4mm^2 so. --- The serial interface won't be here for a while and not in a particularly big hurry to sort this out anyway. I see that this could turn to one of these "best intentions" projects.

The recommended would be 6mm2

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

The recommended would be 6mm2

True. What I meant is that the currently installed cable is probably 4mm^2 seen as it's quite beefy looking but I reckon not beefy enough to be 6mm^2.

Water John

Ha, like your ruler there, 'beefy'.

BoatMad

samih wrote: »

True. What I meant is that the currently installed cable is probably 4mm^2 seen as it's quite beefy looking but I reckon not beefy enough to be 6mm^2.

ah yes beefy and on fire and beefy and quite happy are two very different cables

It's the only ruler available without actually taking a closer look to the existing cable. The cable appears rather heavy compared to the roll of 1.5mm flex I used for my camper electrics. Seen as even 2.5mm is under spec for a 16A circuit I'm concluding that the current cable is most likely 4mm^2 (without actually examining it more closely).

BoatMad

samih wrote: »

It's the only ruler available without actually taking a closer look to the existing cable. The cable appears rather heavy compared to the roll of 1.5mm flex I used for my camper electrics. Seen as even 2.5mm is under spec for a 16A circuit I'm concluding that the current cable is most likely 4mm^2 (without actually examining it more closely).

2.5mm2 is the recommended for spur and ring radials spurs fused to 16A, and for ring circuits to 35A ( Standards and Rules for Electrical Equipment and Electrical Installations, ETCI) provided mechanical protection is employed

cookers rated at upto 10kw are specified at 6mm2 , with final flexible in 4mm2

BoatMad

2.5mm2 twin and earth is approx 10.5mm wide and 5.5mm thick
4mm2 11.5mm x 6.5mm
6mm2 is 13-13,5mm x 7mm

all aproxx for harmonised 6242Y T&E

measure it with a rule , better then " beefy" eh

I just opened my EVSE today and to my surprise !


Happy days ! Lucky I prewired with 40 amp cable !

So if it's the EVSE562 it will work at 32 amps.

If it's EVSE561 it's 16 amps only.

Happy days mad_lad.

My "beefy" cable has a round 10.8 mm cross section. It might be 6mm^2 after all depending on how thick the combined insulation is. If each of the conductors have the needed r of just under 1.5 mm that would leave total of 5 mm of insulation which sounds about right...

stesaurus

So good news my parent's EVSE is 32a capable. The RCBO in the unit is 40a but consumer unit will need replacing.
I'm not sure about the cable though. I've attached a pic. Green cable is the electric shower, seems to be that flat grey type about 18mm X 8mm. The red is for the EVSE. It's round cable with a 13mm diameter. Any idea if that is 32a capable?

Looks the same as mine, if it melts I'll just replace it , it's only running outside anyway, I got 40 amp cable from the consumer unit to the outside.

mundogas

s.welstead wrote: »

So good news my parent's EVSE is 32a capable. The RCBO in the unit is 40a but consumer unit will need replacing.
I'm not sure about the cable though. I've attached a pic. Green cable is the electric shower, seems to be that flat grey type about 18mm X 8mm. The red is for the EVSE. It's round cable with a 13mm diameter. Any idea if that is 32a capable?

Not sure about that cable but most seemed to have been fitted with 4mm2 i think. Just to note, if electric shower is run at same time as charger at 32a it's a large load on the house supply. I would have though it's approaching the need for an interlock so both can't be on at the same time? Others will know better than me but 7kw charger and 8 or 9kw shower my well cause issues running at same time. Worth getting checked out anyway.

BoatMad

mundogas wrote: »

Not sure about that cable but most seemed to have been fitted with 4mm2 i think. Just to note, if electric shower is run at same time as charger at 32a it's a large load on the house supply. I would have though it's approaching the need for an interlock so both can't be on at the same time? Others will know better than me but 7kw charger and 8 or 9kw shower my well cause issues running at same time. Worth getting checked out anyway.

IN general it would be very unwise to have a 32A capable EVSE and a power shower that are not interlocked, dont forget you have to support occasional high power loads like cookers and ovens as well as also supporting high starting currents like fridges etc

dont just blindly stumble into this

Our main breaker is 63A, so 6.6 kW leaf will use almost half of the capacity. Water booster pump is 500W, bathroom heater 1kW, dishwasher/washing machine probably around 2kW+ each, cooker at full blast 6kW... Depending on the circuit breaker type inrush current on any motor can trip it when the load is way under the limit.

Probably not a good idea to use all of the above at the same time. :P