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Why do some men commit rape?
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If only the misandry was limited to the internet we'd have far less problems. It's not though, the feminisation of education and our societies caving in to the demands of (and even election of, in the case of some of our politicians) misandrists is creating a world where boys are being taught that they're inferior to girls from an early age.ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »It may contribute to those suffering from esteem issues but IMO that's still a few too many steps away from playing a cauastive factor in rape. Again it boils down to the type of individual who will do this inherently rather than the types of material which they justify it with.
Sure, but there's a large difference between reading relatively anonymous misandrist tripe on the internet and being abused as a child which IIRC tends to be a common trigger
I'm sorry but I've yet to hear of a case of consent classes preventing rape.That's if you take the position that it causes no preventative measures, which I disagree with.
So the fact that some victims of rape commit suicide means all crimes of rape should be treated as seriously as murder?Yes, arguably. A person who dies, dies. They don't experience the after-effects or have to try to put their lives back together in the aftermath and come to terms with it. Now you can very rationally say "I personally would rather live with the effects" and that's fair enough but fact some victims of rape commit suicide afterwards would make an argument for it not being so cut and dry.
That sentence contains about as much logic as I expect from feminists tbh.
If I'm quite honest, I think we encourage rape victims emotional and psychological trauma. When we've conditioned people to think of a horrible experience that lasts a finite duration of time as being "as bad" as their life being ended, is it any wonder that some take their own lives as a result?Maybe, I've never been raped and hopefully never will be but having seen the effect it has had on people who have I'd consider it. It's also a fact that very many rapes contain a physical assault element so you're dealing with the potential of lingering physical injuries anyway.
True, but as a society we're frankly not fantastic (or at least as good) at dealing with victims emotional and psychological trauma as we are physical trauma. The stigma around mental health is still a thing sadly, which IMO makes rape a much worse crime than a standard assault. As someone who suffered from depression I like very many others have some not so flattering stories of people's reactions vs say someone walking around on crutches.
I'm not arguing that we should try to excuse rape, or play down the impact it can have on a victim. But I do feel that we over-play it's impact. I'm sorry to say I know far too many women (and men) who have been raped or otherwise sexually abused but I'm happy to say that all of them have recovered from the ordeal and lead normal lives today.0 -
Both movements damaged themselves in this regard imho. In the effort to be inclusive, feminism allowed itself to be corrupted from within. Instead of defining what feminism did, and didn't, stand for; instead of saying "Andrea Dworkin isn't a feminist, she's a man hating lunatic" the feminist movement tried to be all things to all women and allowed the misandrists and nutters to become the spokespeople for the movement.ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »Yeah I get you, one thing that bugs me is labels which should be decent end up corrupted by the most extreme elements that ironically end up not too different to the ones they vociferate against most strongly. There should be nothing wrong with calling yourself a Feminist or Men's Rights Activist on the basis you genuinely wish to address actual imbalances suffered but sadly most people seem the terms now and just react so negatively to them.
The MRA's? Well, I think most people interested in Men's Rights abandoned that label to the lunatics pretty quickly. Personally, I've never felt that unilateral movements are the solution to inequality issues. It's easier to balance a scale by removing weights from both sides than it is to keep adding unmeasurable ones to each side.0 -
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ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »I'm going to stick my neck out here for a moment and say I imagine MRAs like feminists come in varying stratas and ideologies and that the less militant and radical ones have arguments that bear merit. I define myself as an egalitarian but would agree that there are areas where men's rights are lacking similarly to areas where women's rights are lacking. I'd generally dismiss the individual rather than the label to be honest.
Redpillers and their ilk can GTFO like radical misandrists however.
Pretty much this
Strange how many feminists can simultaneously sustain the " not all feminists" and "all Mras are misogynists" arguement
Did I say strange- I meant hypocritical0 -
If only the misandry was limited to the internet we'd have far less problems. It's not though, the feminisation of education and our societies caving in to the demands of (and even election of, in the case of some of our politicians) misandrists is creating a world where boys are being taught that they're inferior to girls from an early age.
I think you're exaggerating a bit now. Certainly there can be an argument had about the role, lack of and benefits to men within the teaching ranks, along with another about quotas but to say boys are being taught they're inferior is a stretch.I'm sorry but I've yet to hear of a case of consent classes preventing rape.
If the consent class prevented a rape why would there be a case about it? Logically you've equipped someone with the tools they need to prevent rape who didn't have them before so now they're part of ubiquity. That was my whole point to Catari about preventing future rapes by giving young people the cues about how to have sexual intimacy in the first place.So the fact that some victims of rape commit suicide means all crimes of rape should be treated as seriously as murder?
That sentence contains about as much logic as I expect from feminists tbh.
What exactly do you want me to say? They're both awful crimes, the worst ones an individual can enact. We generally hold murder to be the worst crime because it involves the taking of a life for which there is no return, for some rape victims what happened to them is so bad their lives are effectively ended. Trying to make it into some kind of competition is frankly perverse.If I'm quite honest, I think we encourage rape victims emotional and psychological trauma. When we've conditioned people to think of a horrible experience that lasts a finite duration of time as being "as bad" as their life being ended, is it any wonder that some take their own lives as a result?
What? Do you understand the kinds of long-term effects that comes from psychological trauma? If someone's trauma lasts their entire life that's finite but it's still their entire life. You go through treatment and try to frame it in such a way you can live a life without it being there too intrusively but you don't just wake up one morning and suddenly be back to where you were before it all happened. And I'm just talking about depression there, if you're raped every interaction you have with other human being changes.I'm not arguing that we should try to excuse rape, or play down the impact it can have on a victim. But I do feel that we over-play it's impact. I'm sorry to say I know far too many women (and men) who have been raped or otherwise sexually abused but I'm happy to say that all of them have recovered from the ordeal and lead normal lives today.
How exactly are we overplaying it? I dare you to go to one of those victims you supposedly know and ask them if you think there should be a socially acceptable time-limit on how long they're "entitled" to be affected by it. Hell you might even get to make the argument afterwards about whether a bad hiding is worse than a rape. Likewise how well do you know them that you can say they've recovered from it because it's not the kind of thing a lot of people let others in on. Depression suffered learn to smile and be part of a group while being miserable inside because of how we'd get treated if we let it show.
Frankly mate before I thought you were just someone who'd phrased a reasonable point poorly, now it seems you're just another hardcore loony albeit from the other side of the fence.0 -
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if the consent class prevented a rape why would there be a case about it? Logically you've equipped someone with the tools they need to prevent rape who didn't have them before so now they're part of ubiquity. That was my whole point to Catari about preventing future rapes by giving young people the cues about how to have sexual intimacy in the first place.
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You are attempting to prove the impossible( a negative ) , equally one could suggest that attending a ballet class might have prevented a rape , hence by deduction , men should all attend ballet classes.0 -
Catari Jaguar wrote: »You really believe youre right and that is frightening.
As has been pointed out by numerous posters already - self-awareness clearly isn't your forté.Catari Jaguar wrote: »I think the handful posting here denying rape culture really highlight that they 1. Don't know what it is and 2. Are resistance to any change to society (which is at the core of MRA)
Your insistence of what you term a "rape culture" could be applied to literally any interaction or activity which influences human behaviour. Anything. You name it, it can be perceived to contribute to rape culture. Nothing is just influenced by culture any more, it's all part of rape culture. Everything.Catari Jaguar wrote: »There's no men's right to not be tarred with a brush. Sorry it's true.
Channeling your own mantra: It's a ****ing COMMANDMENT to begin with:
2464 The eighth commandment forbids misrepresenting the truth in our relations with others. This moral prescription flows from the vocation of the holy people to bear witness to their God who is the truth and wills the truth. Offenses against the truth express by word or deed a refusal to commit oneself to moral uprightness: they are fundamental infidelities to God and, in this sense, they undermine the foundations of the covenantCatari Jaguar wrote: »It's thrown around that women fake claims. Is that responded to with "prove it?" as well?
I have no problem with calling bullshít where I see it:One eyed Jack wrote: »Look I hate it when these sorts of things come up, because false allegations are exceptionally rare, and even then, they're not automatically going to ruin anyone's life. That's only one possibility, and even then it's dependent upon the circumstances of the case.Catari Jaguar wrote: »You know what's worse than being accused of rape? ACTUALLY BEING RAPED.
I can only speak from personal experience, but having experienced both, being falsely accused of rape, was multiples far worse for me personally than having been raped. You know why? Because at least when I was raped, it happened behind closed doors. I could still go out in public and nobody knew. They would treat me like a normal person. I had more control over who knew and who didn't know. I knew I wasn't responsible for what happened to me.
When I was falsely accused of rape, I had no control whatsoever over who knew and who didn't know. I reprimanded myself constantly for not seeing it coming. I took whole responsibility for putting myself in that position. I wondered how the hell could anyone believe I would rape someone. But they did, because they wanted to. Because of the "no smoke without fire" crap, because the same society that you see as a rape culture, is the same society that sees it easier to believe men are capable of rape already. There's your fcuking rape culture right there. You want a cause, you want to fight society's misconceptions about rape? Why don't you start with that one and see how you get on?Catari Jaguar wrote: »As for "how can I avoid being raped?" That comment was flippant and blasé. It's how I read it, it's how I responded.
You clearly missed the point of the question then. The point of asking was to show that there is simply no advice that will ever prevent someone from being raped, regardless of their gender. "Advice" puts the responsibility on the person who is raped not to get themselves raped. The responsibility for rape lies solely with the person who commits rape. It's not society's fault, it's not a fault of our culture, it's entirely the fault and the responsibility of the person who commits rape. You would have us believe that society and cultural influences which everyone in society is exposed to, are responsible for a proportionately miniscule amount of people in that society who commit rape. Your rationale just doesn't stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever.
If you thought your reply was flippant and blasé, to a post that wasn't even aimed at you, I would suggest you go out and buy yourself a dictionary. This was your reply:Catari Jaguar wrote: »Nice flippancy.
Do you think women need to avoid being raped?
They must be terrible at it if rape still happens.
Avoiding rape is a myth. Yet women are constantly told to avoid rape.
The fact that you can be blasé about it shows that rape is no threat to you, not a blip on your radar. That's privilege. Of course you'll deny rape culture exists, after all it doesn't affect you. It's why so many here absolutely dont give a ****.
Few posts back there's an ill informed comment about rapists don't lurk on street corners here therefore there's no rape culture. So despite all the asking for proof and thinking you have all the answers you don't seem to know what rape is. 7/10 rape victims know their rapists.
As well as CREATING RAPE CULTURE by teaching girls to beware strangers and protect themselves from rape by what they wear/ how much they drink/ where they walk/ what message they send out etc. which is victim blamey, it also sends a dangerous message (from childhood) that rapists are strangers. It implies sexual assault/ molestation by family members, exes, partners, teachers, friends, coaches etc. ISN'T rape. It's the "legitimate rape" myth.
Why ARE you denying rape culture (which you clearly don't even understand the meaning of) I posted my own personal experiences with harassment and precautions. Any thoughts on that? Should I not take precautions? Will it make a difference if I do or don't? Would you blame me less or more?
Defcon fcuking 1, right off the bat, and you misfired so badly and all.Catari Jaguar wrote: »But the thing is men AREN'T TOLD how to dress, where to go, not to sleep around, not to do xyz. THAT is rape culture. As a man do you have a day to day fear that you'll be raped and have to keep your guard up? Do you worry that if you are raped you'll be victim blamed and asked what you were wearing and how much you drank?
Men are told how to dress. The CEO of an MNC turned up for a meeting with me the other day in sweatpants and a tee-shirt, commenting on the fact that I was over-dressed in my shirt and tie. He was just back from a whitewater rafting trip in Canada, I on the other hand have no such exciting hobbies, and thought it was better I should keep my love of knitting to myself.
As a man do I have a day to day fear that I'll be raped and have to keep my guard up?
No, but not because I'm a man, but because I'm a rational human being that prefers to see the best in people rather than assume the worst. I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that I'm not in any way unusual in that regard, and that most people, regardless of their gender, don't have a day to day fear that they'll be raped and have to keep their guard up. If I met someone like that, I'd recommend they seek professional help, because that's just not normal behaviour. It's completely irrational.
I don't worry about being victim blamed for what happened to me, because I never get that far in my thinking that I could ever report the perpetrators for what they did to me. I won't go into specifics, but suffice to say that family reunions are awkward enough as it is without the thought of having to deal with everyone knowing. I really don't need that constant reminder tbh.Catari Jaguar wrote: »This thread is loaded with certain posters crying classic MRA derailing strategies like "Women rape too!!!" (seen in the first response) and shutting down a conversation (or derailing a thread) with "not all men". Nothing beneficial can come that. Dangerous territory in here, and this forum in general. I hope to god it's only the attitude of a misguided few.
This was actually an amazing thread, until you barged in and shat all over it, tbh. Thankfully I know your attitude is only that of a misguided few who hold fast to some of the most numbnuts, cretinous theories I've ever had the displeasure to read, and I say that as someone who reads the Bible religiously.Catari Jaguar wrote: »That's what you took from that? Jesus christ you lot really only see what you like and are determined to undermine.
It's been mentioned already, but just in case you're still not getting the message (and I doubt you ever will) - pot, meet kettle.Catari Jaguar wrote: »It's a ****ing COMMANDMENT to begin with as well as being taught from infancy - don't take things that aren't yours, don't fight.
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour" is another one. Yet your ideology of rape culture seems to fly in the face of it by claiming that I am somehow responsible for the behaviour of the persons who raped me. I didn't make anyone rape me, I didn't make them who they are, yet that is the logical conclusion of your rape culture ideology. You can see why that circular logic might be problematic for anyone who has been raped?Catari Jaguar wrote: »Teach kids to treat girls equally? Teach them that some language is unacceptable, don't teach them or imply that girls interests/ toys are inferior, teach them not to ping bra straps or insult them/ be mean "because they like them", don't teach them that girl bodies distract them from study, don't model sexist manner in front of them e.g. the "jokes"
Y'know, cut out all the bullshít ideology politics, and you're left with one very simple rule to live by:
"Treat others as you would like to be treated"Catari Jaguar wrote: »All of the above is the mythical rape culture. I don't see how that could ever contribute to dehumanizing women, invading their space, disrespecting their boundaries, and eventually some taking it too far? Hmm...
Hmm.... no.
The only people taking anything too far here are proponents of rape culture, by suggesting that the whole of society is responsible for a minority of utterly despicable human beings who have no place in civilised society.Catari Jaguar wrote: »I'm sure your son is lovely, but do you honestly see no harm in messages out there aimed at lads?
Again, serious self-awareness fail there with your rape culture ideology and young boys in your crosshairs. I see nothing but harm in that message, and you have no idea how grateful I would be if you took nothing else with you away from this thread, but this:The only person responsible for a rape is a rapist.Catari Jaguar wrote: »Have you read Steubenville, college rape articles, politicians degrading women and trivilialising rape victims? How do you imagine people with teenage daughters might feel? Do you have a daughter? Have you read the south Dublin gang rape houseparty article that's in trial?
I've read those cases, and I still hold the people who committed those crimes responsible for their own actions. I don't have a teenage daughter, but I've worked with many, many teenage girls in the past and I've cared for them like they were my own daughters. I get the link you're trying to make alright, but then if I thought like you do, what would that say about the way I think of the young boys I've worked with in the past who I cared for like they were my own sons?Catari Jaguar wrote: »Do you think that being self aware of how you might make others feel and modifying that behavoiour is more harmful than a person not feeling safe?
That depends upon a number of factors really.
Be considerate of other people - certainly.
Be a doormat for other people - absolutely not.
Most people in society understand concepts like social awareness, social responsibility and so on, and then there are the minority who appear to have no self-awareness, no concept of social awareness and no concept of social responsibility, and think the world must revolve around them.
You probably wouldn't recognise yourself in a mirror.Catari Jaguar wrote: »If you're walking home at night behind me and I am afraid of you, am I the one in the wrong, or is my fear stemmed from something? Should I surpress my fear so as not to make you feel "notallmen" and deny my instincts? And let's say you are an attacker? What then?
How the hell am I expected to be aware of the fact that you're afraid of me? I'd be turned into a gibbering neurotic idiot by now if I perceived that everyone in society should be afraid of me. I'd never leave the house for fear that I might cause someone to become uncomfortable. You could walk around in complete safety and the whole world would be your oyster because nobody would leave their house for fear they might make someone feel uncomfortable. You'd be the only person not afraid to venture outdoors because now the world has been made a safer place for you, because nobody else is going to make you feel uncomfortable.
If your instincts tell you that I'm likely to rape you, then I respectfully suggest you see a professional, because that's not a normal train of thought for any human being. It can be utterly debilitating depending upon how deeply it's burned into your psyche, and is not a way of thinking I would recommend to anyone, because it could lead you to thinking I actually am going to attack you, when nothing could be further from reality. You're saying I'm an attacker, I'm not, as I haven't attacked you, nor do I have any intentions of doing so. You're hardly to know that however, but due to your debilitating mindset, you've already put me in that box. Am I responsible for you putting me in that box? No. You are. Completely. You own your own irrational thoughts. You don't get to project them onto me or anyone else, because they aren't my responsibility.Catari Jaguar wrote: »Reading this thread and a couple of others in here I am starting to see a lot of hate, bile, asshmptions posted as fact that makes me think is toxic hair trigger away from psychopathic behaviour... not doing yourselves or supposed MRA any good.
You've got to be taking the piss surely? Could you possibly be so devoid of even a shred of self-awareness? I've known some incredibly narcissistic people in my time, but CJ, you're taking the biscuit here, honestly! Fortunately however, while you're not doing yourself or feminism any good, you are vastly outnumbered by the numbers of women I've known in my time who identify as feminist. I don't associate bonkers notions with feminism, because feminism isn't a bonkers notion. Bonkers notions are the responsibility of the people who hold fast to them, and again I say that as someone who is religious. I've got plenty of bonkers notions going on, but I don't see it as my duty to inflict them on anyone else. That would simply make people incredibly uncomfortable, and not alone that, but I would see it as incredibly disrespectful and counter-productive to the ideal of a socially cohesive society.
Other people have the same rights as I do to their funky notions. What they don't have a right to however, is for anyone to take their funky notions seriously. That applies to your funky notions of rape culture.Catari Jaguar wrote: »See that's interesting and you actualy speak sense and I admire that, because I was called a biggot a few posts back for thinking as you do above.
Just because you agree with something because it makes sense to you, doesn't mean you're any less a sexist bigot than you were before. You're still a sexist bigot, just that now you've found a new friend who thinks like you do.Catari Jaguar wrote: »I havent said all men in this thread at all. I read the entire thread and I posted back a few pages of what jumped out at me, that had no business in a thread about rape. STEM and whatever. I posted the exact comments that concerned me. Dismissal of a serious topic and a me me me.
Holy... fcuk...
Self-awareness CJ, get some. Seriously.Catari Jaguar wrote: »That silences women. That stops discussion that helps protect women or alter society to make women (and men, gay, trans whatever) feel more comfortable. That is dangerous. Don't enable it. Shut it down. Report it for derailing.
Not normally a spelling pedant, but oh for the want of a comma, the sincerity was lost. Frankly, your sincerity with regard to your opinion of men, there was never much there to begin with. That much is blatantly obvious.Catari Jaguar wrote: »That level of resentment, that level of blind hatred towards women I saw here
That is the ONLY reason I posted in here.
That's working out well, isn't it?Catari Jaguar wrote: »There's no me saying all men rape or you're all rape apologists. If any of you construed it that way, it's probably the bias you already have due to the anti feminist sentiment in here and labelling me as man hating feminazi blah blah yawn. I didn't even bring up 'rape culture'. I don't like that term, but 'sexualisation disrespect culture' does exist. I didnt invent the term, it's not your call or mine to rename it or redefine it. Seeing the scorn and denial about it confused me, I feel it's my duty to highlight it as am issue that many women take very seriously. Some, like myself, find it cliche, unfair, repetetive and are just sick ofnit at this stage. Everyday in my FB feed something about girls being blamed for something, treated a vcertain way, some link about slut shaming or dress codes.
I need to take a break at this point. The lack of self-awareness is just too overwhelming. It's breathtaking!Catari Jaguar wrote: »The past few responses to me have been measured and respectful debate. I am grateful, and a little surprised due to the majority of absolute bolloxology and vitriol I have been replied to with. And yea, that affects the response you'll get back.
Honestly, I don't even want, nor expect, nor need a reply from someone with their head rammed so far up their own... place where they appear to do most of their talking from.Catari Jaguar wrote: »I have no personal issue contrary to popular belief, I have no chip on my shoulder. I havent been raped. I have brothers, most of my friends growing up were male, I spent 5 years teaching in an all male school. You don't know me.
And yet without knowing me, you still feel your flippant and blasé ehh, "coments", were justified:Catari Jaguar wrote: »The fact that you can be blasé about it shows that rape is no threat to you, not a blip on your radar. That's privilege. Of course you'll deny rape culture exists, after all it doesn't affect you. It's why so many here absolutely dont give a ****.
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Why ARE you denying rape culture (which you clearly don't even understand the meaning of) I posted my own personal experiences with harassment and precautions. Any thoughts on that? Should I not take precautions? Will it make a difference if I do or don't? Would you blame me less or more?
Of course you do. I don't expect anything else at this point tbh.Catari Jaguar wrote: »I amnt black, I support black lives. I don't "alllivesmatter". I'm not gay, I support gay rights. I'm not depressed, I support mental health campaigns. I'm not homeless. I support those who are. I don't pretend those issues (and I wont call them 'mens' issues) don't exist because I don't face them.
Well, they're fcuked.
Or to put it more politely - you're a liability.Catari Jaguar wrote: »I dont try and one up them with my personal plight.
Reeeeally?
Somehow, I find that incredibly difficult to believe.Catari Jaguar wrote: »Sometimes life is **** and we all have problems. Is that opression? No. Stop pretending it is.
Y'know, we might actually agree on something yet. Sometimes life is indeed shít. But y'know what make it so, so much better?
Living.
Sharing your life with other people.
Finding the beauty in other people.
Y'know what makes it worse?
Pretending you're oppressed.
Stop pretending rape culture is a thing, you'll be much happier for it.
Trust me on that much.Catari Jaguar wrote: »I also care about actions/media that make a gender feel unsafe, shamed inferior, isolated, mocked, victim blamed or afraid and YOU SHOULD TOO. Go read #yesallwomen and put yourself in their shoes. Have you ever contributed or seen it, heard it and said nothing? If so, change. If not, well done, you're stellar women love you. If you don't give a **** either, that's pretty sad.
My wife is convinced I'm an asshole.
You'd have me made out to be a rapist.
I'm really not sure I need your validation tbh.Catari Jaguar wrote: »Frustration born from some of the insanely inappropriate comments here and other threads here, and the double standards, sweeping sttatements etc is what I have issue wirh. As am sure any man without a vested interest in MRA bull**** propaganda cringes, ignores or also feels like banging his head off the wall or cry in frustration reading these posts.
I have no vested interest in political and ideologies of any description, and I still cringed and felt like crying with frustration reading your posts. Just yours.Catari Jaguar wrote: »Spot on. This really comes across in the fact the majority don't even know what is or isnt rape.
...
Why are so many burying their head in the sand about what rape is?
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Well sorry for feels, but when you don't know what rape is, maybe it needs to be explained and maybe what you thought was ok isnt.
At this point, I feel that any attempt to explain anything to you would lead to me having to draw you a fcuking diagram, and even then I don't imagine you'd get it. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe what you think is rape culture, is actually the greatest load of bollocks you've ever heard in your life?
Maybe what you thought was ok, actually isn't?Catari Jaguar wrote: »I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that attitudes like *this* is why some men commit rape.
They're some very short limbs you've got if your thinking is actually that shallow.Catari Jaguar wrote: »However this anti male rape article is from Everyday Feminist.
http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/09/stop-joking-about-men-raped-by-women/
Fixed that for you.
That article is painful, and I don't mean in the "triggering" sense of the word. I mean in the sense that I could literally sense my grey matter ebbing away to mush as I read it. It's right about your level though if your posts are any indication to go by tbh, so no surprise you would think it was worth sharing. If that's the standard of your FB feed too, I suggest with the greatest of respect you go close the laptop, put your phone away, and go out and get some fresh air, meet some people, make some friends. Again - you'll feel much happier for it. Trust me. If nothing else you take away from this thread though before you go, take this message with you:The only person responsible for a rape is a rapist.0 -
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Jesus OEJ. :eek: Sorry to hear of your experiences. Good points about the privacy aspects of it.One eyed Jack wrote: »I can only speak from personal experience, but having experienced both, being falsely accused of rape, was multiples far worse for me personally than having been raped. You know why? Because at least when I was raped, it happened behind closed doors. I could still go out in public and nobody knew. They would treat me like a normal person. I had more control over who knew and who didn't know. I knew I wasn't responsible for what happened to me.
When I was falsely accused of rape, I had no control whatsoever over who knew and who didn't know. I reprimanded myself constantly for not seeing it coming. I took whole responsibility for putting myself in that position. I wondered how the hell could anyone believe I would rape someone. But they did, because they wanted to. Because of the "no smoke without fire" crap, because the same society that you see as a rape culture, is the same society that sees it easier to believe men are capable of rape already.
Never gonna happen OEJ. If it doesn't pass the women are victims men are victimisers rule of current God Bless America Feminism it's going to be completely off the radar. That the same "feminism" can claim with a straight face to be egalitarian beggars belief. Well it doesn't, because as can be seen anywhere it pops up, self awareness is all too obvious by its absence.There's your fcuking rape culture right there. You want a cause, you want to fight society's misconceptions about rape? Why don't you start with that one and see how you get on?Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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One eyed Jack wrote: »I can only speak from personal experience
Deeply sorry to hear that Jack, it must have been awful. Excellently written post and really should (hopefully) give food for thought to those reading it.Your insistence of what you term a "rape culture" could be applied to literally any interaction or activity which influences human behaviour. Anything. You name it, it can be perceived to contribute to rape culture. Nothing is just influenced by culture any more, it's all part of rape culture. Everything.
This pretty much. Going on those guidelines pretty much every human being that has ever lived has enabled 'rape culture'. As an idea it doesn't stand up to any kind of scrutiny.This was actually an amazing thread, until you barged in and shat all over it, tbh. Thankfully I know your attitude is only that of a misguided few who hold fast to some of the most numbnuts, cretinous theories I've ever had the displeasure to read, and I say that as someone who reads the Bible religiously.
Seconded.
For all the great points raised in the post, my fear is that it will go in one ear and out the other. The perpetual victim and 'me me me' narrative always seems to win out over common sense unfortunately.0 -
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Catari Jaguar wrote: »I havent said all men in this thread at all. I read the entire thread and I posted back a few pages of what jumped out at me, that had no business in a thread about rape.
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There's no me saying all men rape or you're all rape apologists.Catari Jaguar wrote: »When consent needs to be dumbed down to the point of a comic strip analogy about a cup of tea, then there's no leg to stand on in terms of "men don't need to be told not to rape". Well sorry for feels, but when you don't know what rape is, maybe it needs to be explained and maybe what you thought was ok isnt.
I'm quoting two separate posts here. It seems you're a bit messy. You're saying you've not tarred all men, fair enough. Yet, in another breath you've said there's no leg to stand on about men being told not to rape. Really?
The consent discussion is worth having, absolutely. My sex education was about biology, not relationships. It was in science class culminating in a VHS tape of a woman giving birth, when we were what, 14 ish? Then in fifth year it was redone in religion time, again very biologically based and contraception info, i.e. condoms and that was for the year group as a whole. The school brought in some chastity advocates too, no joke.
There was no discussion of consent at all. Looking back, this was very normal for the 1990s. Thinking of it today of course it seems out of place because you'd like to think sex ed curriculum has developed further, but I suspect it's largely quite patchy and we still abstinence only people speaking in schools probably "because ethos!", that's why. I would hope we've moved on pure biology and some relationship context is given.
Now, if consent is addressed through a proper sex ed curriculum and that's sorted out (in so far as it can be i.e., across the whole of Ireland), which men are you proposing need to be told not to rape?Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.
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The Black Oil wrote: »I'm quoting two separate posts here. It seems you're a bit messy. You're saying you've not tarred all men, fair enough. Yet, in another breath you've said there's no long to stand on about men being told not to rape. Really?
The consent discussion is worth having, absolutely. My sex education was about biology, not relationships. It was in science class culminating in a VHS tape of a woman giving birth, when we were what, 14 ish? Then in fifth year it was redone in religion time, again very biologically based and contraception info, i.e. condoms and that was for the year group as a whole. The school brought in some chastity advocates too, no joke.
There was no discussion of consent at all. Looking back, this was very normal for the 1990s. Thinking of it today of course it seems out of place because you'd like to think sex ed curriculum has developed further, but I suspect it's largely quite patchy and we still abstinence only people speaking in schools probably "because ethos!", that's why. I would hope we've moved on pure biology and some relationship context is given.
Now, if consent is addressed through a proper sex ed curriculum and that's sorted out (in so far as it can be i.e., across the whole of Ireland), which men are you proposing need to be told not to rape?
Thats a very valid point. I think one of the concerns often voiced is that the consent discussion has been hijacked by groups who only want to push one perspective. That's very different though to saying we dont need to have a discussion around consent. One of my bugbears is that the question is so often farmed in the context of teaching men and boys about consent as opposed to the, in my view, more useful approach of teaching everyone about consent. One of the biggest issues with rape is its almost unique in that the two people involved can have a very different interpretation of the exact same event, and thats not necessarily just one persons fault.
I recently read a consent workshop pamphlet with the statistic that '84% of men who were involved in " rape events" were adamant they hadn't committed a rape' ( from my reading rape events was the authors interpretation rather than a criminal outcome). It was put out there to evoke outrage at these men but I couldn't help but think that in many cases they likely were innocent of any criminal liability on the basis of having a reasonable belief of consent, in many more they were proceeding at least in a belief of consent. Is it really as simple as they're just too thick to understand the clear message?
Has anyone ever asked if putting the focus on all the men with a stern "thou shalt not rape" is actually going to achieve anything here? Maybe we need to push past the victim blaming arguement and ask if we can give both sexes the tools to interact successfully. Maybe we need to acknowledge that, when we put the black and white parts to one side for a moment we need to have a slightly different approach and view for some of what's left in the grey area, preferably one that doesn't have polarised gender politics as its starting point0 -
Has anyone ever asked if putting the focus on all the men with a stern "thou shalt not rape" is actually going to achieve anything here? Maybe we need to push past the victim blaming arguement and ask if we can give both sexes the tools to interact successfully. Maybe we need to acknowledge that, when we put the black and white parts to one side for a moment we need to have a slightly different approach and view for some of what's left in the grey area, preferably one that doesn't have polarised gender politics as its starting point
Interactions & relationships are a thousand kinds of grey. If it was all really so black & white, and a simple case of education with cartoon infographics, psychologists everywhere would be out of a job. They aren't, so either they as a collective group have managed to keep a secret unanonmous agreement to mislead the rest of the planet, or the belief that everything is black & white is b0lloxology of the highest order. I have a fair idea of which bet I'd place my money on ...
The sooner that we as a society allow the discussion around consent, sexual assault, rape, etc. to be framed and led by behavioural professionals rather than tinder muppets, the sooner and better off we'll all be for it, and the sooner we might actually begin to equip people with the tools necessary for successful, fulfilling, and enjoyable human interaction. The current path that we're being led down is just a toxic hiding to nowhere.0 -
Lady is a tramp wrote: »I was raped a couple of weeks back. "Date raped", I guess.
Jesus this has to be one of the most sobering threads I've read in a while.One eyed Jack wrote: »I can only speak from personal experience, but having experienced both, being falsely accused of rape, was multiples far worse for me personally than having been raped.
Sorry to hear what happened to you both and thanks for sharing.0 -
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I recently read a consent workshop pamphlet with the statistic that '84% of men who were involved in " rape events" were adamant they hadn't committed a rape' ( from my reading rape events was the authors interpretation rather than a criminal outcome). It was put out there to evoke outrage at these men but I couldn't help but think that in many cases they likely were innocent of any criminal liability on the basis of having a reasonable belief of consent, in many more they were proceeding at least in a belief of consent. Is it really as simple as they're just too thick to understand the clear message?
Was this an Irish leaflet?
The overall lack of detail concerns me. With the classes, such as those proposed at third level, is there any follow up planned? i.e. will students who receive it first year student be reassessed in a few years, as to their understanding of consent? If they want to do this properly, they'd have pre and post reviews to assess the quality of the intervention, but afaik, this has not been discussed, at all. The topic, or at least the narrative that appears to surround it, is still too loaded by gender.Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.
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The Black Oil wrote: »Have you read the whole thread? As I've already said, another reason I started it was because a female poster stated there was no meaningful self examination by men on this issue. It's mostly a men's forum here, though I've not the slightest objection to women contributing. As to your complaint about balance, I don't think it can be a since it's men who are the primary offenders of this crime, but where we certainly are running into difficulty is the obsession with gender politics 101 on blame and solutions.
To be perfectly honest TBO i have not read everything, however i have found this whole "reasoning" or "argument" upsetting. To brush all males with to be responsible with rape is insulting and undignified.
I have a personal perspective in this as a male who was raped by a male when i was a child. i do not go out and rape, I do not see the all males as potential threats, nor would i assume all females are a threat and to agree with another poster on this thread "rape is committed by the rapist" and the whole gender is not responsible for this disgusting crime.
I offered a slight angle on this in counter as the perception given is only men rape when both sexes rape and on the fact this happens the treatment of same is not equal.
Some people in here have their heads up their own arses, think they know what they talking about in the name of defended something they are not naware of truely and how it affects people.0 -
Is it? We see teachers frequently bemoan the boisterous nature of the boys in mixed classes and group based punishments being issued along gender lines, we programs aimed at encouraging girls to take an interest in science, engineering, coding, sport etc. Were these simply gender neutral programs like Coder Dojo I'd be all in favour of them but in my experience as a father of two kids, heaping encouragement and praise solely on one child is much the same as actively discouraging the other.ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »I think you're exaggerating a bit now. Certainly there can be an argument had about the role, lack of and benefits to men within the teaching ranks, along with another about quotas but to say boys are being taught they're inferior is a stretch.
I think we're probably largely in agreement on this tbh. Consent should be one topic in a broader, far more honest sexual education program delivered in our secondary schools by medical professionals. What I object to is the notion of forcing all male students in third-level to attend consent classes delivered by some misandrist with a degree in gender combat studies.If the consent class prevented a rape why would there be a case about it? Logically you've equipped someone with the tools they need to prevent rape who didn't have them before so now they're part of ubiquity. That was my whole point to Catari about preventing future rapes by giving young people the cues about how to have sexual intimacy in the first place.
How are we overplaying rape? By equating it with murder. By defining it as the worst crime one can commit against another.What exactly do you want me to say? They're both awful crimes, the worst ones an individual can enact. We generally hold murder to be the worst crime because it involves the taking of a life for which there is no return, for some rape victims what happened to them is so bad their lives are effectively ended. Trying to make it into some kind of competition is frankly perverse.
What? Do you understand the kinds of long-term effects that comes from psychological trauma? If someone's trauma lasts their entire life that's finite but it's still their entire life. You go through treatment and try to frame it in such a way you can live a life without it being there too intrusively but you don't just wake up one morning and suddenly be back to where you were before it all happened. And I'm just talking about depression there, if you're raped every interaction you have with other human being changes.
How exactly are we overplaying it? I dare you to go to one of those victims you supposedly know and ask them if you think there should be a socially acceptable time-limit on how long they're "entitled" to be affected by it. Hell you might even get to make the argument afterwards about whether a bad hiding is worse than a rape. Likewise how well do you know them that you can say they've recovered from it because it's not the kind of thing a lot of people let others in on. Depression suffered learn to smile and be part of a group while being miserable inside because of how we'd get treated if we let it show.
Frankly mate before I thought you were just someone who'd phrased a reasonable point poorly, now it seems you're just another hardcore loony albeit from the other side of the fence.
As awful a crime as it is, unless combined with other forms of assault, a person who has been raped can still walk, talk, think, love, hold down a job, marry, raise children, chase dreams and perhaps achieve a few. A victim of a severe assault may never again be able to wipe their own arse.
I'm not trying to belittle the psychological trauma of being raped. It's an awful thing for a person to go through. I'm just questioning that if we're equating being raped to being murdered, are we contributing to the idea that a rape victim's life is over?0 -
Is it? We see teachers frequently bemoan the boisterous nature of the boys in mixed classes and group based punishments being issued along gender lines, we programs aimed at encouraging girls to take an interest in science, engineering, coding, sport etc. Were these simply gender neutral programs like Coder Dojo I'd be all in favour of them but in my experience as a father of two kids, heaping encouragement and praise solely on one child is much the same as actively discouraging the other.
I think we're probably largely in agreement on this tbh. Consent should be one topic in a broader, far more honest sexual education program delivered in our secondary schools by medical professionals. What I object to is the notion of forcing all male students in third-level to attend consent classes delivered by some misandrist with a degree in gender combat studies.
How are we overplaying rape? By equating it with murder. By defining it as the worst crime one can commit against another.
As awful a crime as it is, unless combined with other forms of assault, a person who has been raped can still walk, talk, think, love, hold down a job, marry, raise children, chase dreams and perhaps achieve a few. A victim of a severe assault may never again be able to wipe their own arse.
I'm not trying to belittle the psychological trauma of being raped. It's an awful thing for a person to go through. I'm just questioning that if we're equating being raped to being murdered, are we contributing to the idea that a rape victim's life is over?
Have you ever been raped or sexually assaulted?
If not then you have no clue how it really affects people.
Ive been there, i have also been in the dark place of attempting suicide because of it, for me at that, the lowest point in my life my life was over in my mind.
You clearly are uneducated as to the true effects of what it is like for anyone like myself or others in this thread that have identified themselves as having gone through this crap.
Seriously people like you need to fcuk right off and go learn from a counsellor, Gardai and victims if they willing to share the details of what this is really like otherwise you and others in this thread are talking sh!t.
You think rape needs to be combined with other forms of assault to be more serious? Rape is an ASSAULT of the person you and anyone who believes otherwise is a tw@t0 -
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OK SL I fully understand how close to the bone this subject is for you and I truly sympathise, but let's dial down the above kinda thing please. People are allowed have contrary opinions. Nature of debate.Sour Lemonz wrote: »Seriously people like you need to fcuk right off and go learn from a counsellor, Gardai and victims if they willing to share the details of what this is really like otherwise you and others in this thread are talking sh!t.Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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OK SL I fully understand how close to the bone this subject is for you and I truly sympathise, but let's dial down the above kinda thing please. People are allowed have contrary opinions. Nature of debate.
Sorry Wibbs, this is very touchy for me, there is a difference between debate and uneducated rambling opinions.
However rather than get stuck in that ill share some of my expereince and maybe, just maybe it will help educate some folks in here.
I was abused when i was a child by a non family member, for many years after this has affected my confidence, my feeling of self worth and how i viewed relationships with partners.
I attempted suicide one night, was found by a nurse on way home who had helped me, i was very very lucky that night. I had comtemplated suicide on a few more occassions after that as i couldnt deal with my percieved personal shame that it was my fault what happened. I took till i was 27 till i was comfortable to be able to have a sexual relationship, i was so nervous about exposing myself this much for fear of what could happen to me.
It took me 20 years to finally say what happened to me out loud, i had shared with my then fiancee who i was with for 5 years what happened, however i had many anger issues though never violent to her, self loathing and fits of emotional breakdown at random times and this caused an end to our relationship as my fiancee couldnt handle that stuff anymore. It wasn't fair on either of us and when she broke up with me that is what pushed me over the edge to get help.
I spent many many hours with a counsellor, i travelled alot to see a good counsellor who helped me deal with this stuff, eventually i got to a point where i could actually go to the guards to say what happened in an official capacity, try get some justice and expose the person that done this to me. For years i tried to blank out what happened not wanting to believe it was true and i feared i would not be believe when i did go to guards.
Eventually my family and counsellor helped me come to terms to make an appointment with a detective who specialised in these type of cases. I went into the station broke down while having to relive all the crap and expose myself further to a stranger who would be trying to help me. Its not easy, probably the hardest thing ive done in my life opening up like that to someone you dont know, plus this whole thing was recorded, it felt like i was on trial at the time.
It was approx 9 months since i heard from the detective and one day i got a call from him, he basically said on phone they had confirmed all i said and the person who did this to me had been convicted for same crimes against other people around the country, he spent some time in jail but had since died. For me i broke down again on that call, for years of self doubt disappeared and finially i could believe the stuff had happened to me did happen and it was not my fault however bitter at same time as he escaped justice for what he done to me.
And here i am 3 years since that, alot of crap gone through, alot of loss from what happened to me. And im telling all like Sleepy here there is no such thing as rape culture, there is a rapist and their own twisted motives, nothing more, nothing less. As i said previously i dont subscribe to point that all men are evil cos a man abused me, you want to blame something, then blame the person not the gender.
I really hope people take a good long read and read over again, it was not easy for me to write and share this, i have obviously left certain details out that i will not share but this is food for thought for some. And maybe, just maybe you will have a better understanding as there is alot more lost than just personal innocence, there is alof more effect on the person than the assault.0 -
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Christ man, that's tough.
Bloody gratifying to read you're still with us and that you have come through such an ordeal the way you have and the person you are today. No words to describe my admiration for you TBH. Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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A sobering read SL. Glad you have survived your ordeal. Takes a true strength of character to come through that.0 -
I'm not going to share my personal experiences or those of people close to me but your last sentence pretty much sums up what I'm trying to say: Rape is a form of assault. A very serious one, but a step below murder. Victims like yourself can go through emotional hell after it, yet are still here to tell the tale. However they work through it, and however long that takes them, they have the ability to live "normal" lives afterwards and that would be true of all but one of the rape victims I know*.Sour Lemonz wrote: »Have you ever been raped or sexually assaulted?
If not then you have no clue how it really affects people.
Ive been there, i have also been in the dark place of attempting suicide because of it, for me at that, the lowest point in my life my life was over in my mind.
You clearly are uneducated as to the true effects of what it is like for anyone like myself or others in this thread that have identified themselves as having gone through this crap.
Seriously people like you need to fcuk right off and go learn from a counsellor, Gardai and victims if they willing to share the details of what this is really like otherwise you and others in this thread are talking sh!t.
You think rape needs to be combined with other forms of assault to be more serious? Rape is an ASSAULT of the person you and anyone who believes otherwise is a tw@t
That's not always the case for victims of other forms of assault yet we don't seem to be as repulsed by assault with a weapon, GBH etc. (Perhaps something to do with having been a Catholic country for so long, sex being seen as sinful etc?).
As with all crimes, there's varying factors that alter the impact on the victim: was it a one off or a sustained series of assaults over a prolonged duration? Was it a case of violence, coercion or non-recognition of a lack of consent? Was there pre-meditation e.g. spiking of drinks? Were other injuries inflicted?
NONE of these things are acceptable. The only person to blame is the rapist. Yet, as with any other assault, there are degrees of severity and I don't think it makes sense to automatically treat any form of rape as being "worse" than another form of assault e.g. a case of two drunk people where one doesn't realise that the other isn't in any condition to consent would, imo, be a less serious crime than a violent assault that caused life-altering injury.
*without going into the gory details, that young girl suffered a horrific experience at the hands of a group of young animals and didn't get the support she should have after the event due to the social environment she was in at the time. She didn't have your strength or luck and her suicide attempt succeeded.0 -
*without going into the gory details, that young girl suffered a horrific experience at the hands of a group of young animals and didn't get the support she should have after the event due to the social environment she was in at the time. She didn't have your strength or luck and her suicide attempt succeeded.
Its really sad to hear that, no one, absolutely no one deserves to go through that.0 -
I hate these 'who has it worse' type debates about rape vs other forms of assault because it's all relative. I suppose in MY experience rape is worse because it involves sex which is part of most people's normal life experience. My attack only really took a toll when I became sexually active, every bit of normal male attention brought me right back. Every physical exam during pregnancy or normal check ups brought me back. But I can't not have sex, I can't avoid essential health checks. There's nothing in a physical assault that I feel can compare. Also rape is often more than just the sexual act, there is the degradation that goes with it, the comments about how much you like it, the fact the someone is not just on you but INSIDE you touching you in places only those you trust most in the world have had access to. My abuse was also as a child, I don't know if it would have been different if I was an adult though. Let's not forget men are also raped but don't often come forward the same way they do for assault, that alone has to mean something about the different impacts both crimes have on victims.0
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I gotta agree with point in the last point the who has it worse off debate is never a good one. It is all relevant psychological issues that one can get from a sexual assault they could alsoe get from a serious unprovoked pyshical assault.
I personally believe we need a root and branch relook at out legal system, you can't go a day without dispairing at some of the sentences handed out in our courts.
My only hope in this debate is we move away from branding every man as a potential rapist and all this crap about a rape culture. Oh all the guys u have grown up with this is not something that ever came up.
It really got my back up some of the crap of late coming from the rape crisis council, I would hope they aren't goverment funded as an organizations that attacks half of a society doesn't deserve it's funding.0 -
Anyone been following the Stanford swimmer rape case in the media at the moment?
Possibly just another case of "Affluenza" teen? Judge gives him slap on the wrist, father dismisses the crime as "20 minutes of action", female friend defends him and says is all PC gone wrong. Brock himself is blaming "alcohol consumption and promiscuity".
Any thoughts?
Victim impact letter - very powerful
Father's letter0 -
Catari Jaguar wrote: »Anyone been following the Stanford swimmer rape case in the media at the moment?
Possibly just another case of "Affluenza" teen? Judge gives him slap on the wrist, father dismisses the crime as "20 minutes of action", female friend defends him and says is all PC gone wrong. Brock himself is blaming "alcohol consumption and promiscuity".
Any thoughts?
Victim impact letter - very powerful
Father's letter
I'm reminded of the Steubenville gang rape, and he's a prime example of the sort of entitled failed abortion that would answer OP's question.0 -
Catari Jaguar wrote: »Anyone been following the Stanford swimmer rape case in the media at the moment?
Possibly just another case of "Affluenza" teen? Judge gives him slap on the wrist, father dismisses the crime as "20 minutes of action", female friend defends him and says is all PC gone wrong. Brock himself is blaming "alcohol consumption and promiscuity".
Any thoughts?
Victim impact letter - very powerful
Father's letter
He's a scumbag, his father in an attempt to defend his behaviour only made things worse, and I can only hope that girl gets all the support she needs to rebuild her life.0 -
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Point of correction. He was charged and found guilty of three counts of sexual assault under US law. Damned right too. A jury found him bang to rights by the evidence. The sentence however..
I can't help but wonder if he was from the "wrong side of the tracks" would his sentence be so lenient? I'd bet the farm it would not and there'd be no talk of how it might impact his future life. He'd be in for years.Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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The sentence is pitiful but I take comfort from the fact he now has a criminal record.0
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One eyed Jack wrote: »He's a scumbag, his father in an attempt to defend his behaviour only made things worse, and I can only hope that girl gets all the support she needs to rebuild her life.
Yup. "20 minutes of action"- how on earth could the father have thought that would make things better?!0 -
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I'd take more comfort if he had recieved a sentence that reflected his crime, rather than his social position.The sentence is pitiful but I take comfort from the fact he now has a criminal record.Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Yup. "20 minutes of action"- how on earth could the father have thought that would make things better?!
The apple didn't fall far from the tree there I'd say.
Funny how all the pictures of this young lad were taken from yearbook photos and the like, not a mugshot in sight.
He is a scumbag, and that sentence is a joke.0 -
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I know, what does that even mean? A lot can happen in twenty minutes! And action? Jesus wept.
Like if he had used a phrase like...i can't even think of anything.. "a mistake in the heat of the moment" for example (a very bad example i know), you could kind of see how he is explaining what happened as a moment in time, a mistake that he regretted. "20 minutes of action" just hits home exactly how calculated it was and referring to it as action is just removing the real victim altogether, like it was just him in on the "action", rather than him doing something to someone. It's very bizarre.0 -
Originally, Brock Turner had been charged with attempted rape, rape of an intoxicated person, rape of an unconscious person, sexual penetration of an intoxicated person and sexual penetration of an unconscious person.
He pleaded not guilty to all charges.
The rape charges were dropped but he was convicted of the other three offences.
Here is an LA Times article which discusses his unduly lenient sentence. It seems that prosecutors had sought a six year sentence. Turner only received a six month sentence, of which it is likely that he will only serve three.
According to a former Los Angeles District Attorney:Those convictions alone should send him to prison,” said Steve Cooley, Los Angeles former district attorney. “It’s an extraordinary sentence. He’ll spend just 90 days in the county jail after being convicted on three sexual assault charges.
There is also a petition to recall the judge who handed down the sentence. The campaign is led by Stanford law professor who is a friend of the victim's family. According to the article linked above, judges are rarely recalled in California and the petition is unlikely to be effective.0 -
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I read a portion of the victim’s impact statement but had to stop. It was powerful reading but so, so grim. Read a bit yesterday about the 17 year old in Pakistan who was burnt alive and that was particularly grim also. Can only really handle reading so much of that sort of thing to be honest. The internet can be great but the world is a big place and sometimes it makes it feel a little too small.0
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To be fair, I did see a picture of him in what looked like a boiler suit (he's one ugly boy, in more ways than one)The apple didn't fall far from the tree there I'd say.
Funny how all the pictures of this young lad were taken from yearbook photos and the like, not a mugshot in sight.
He is a scumbag, and that sentence is a joke.
On the case itself, it is a travesty that he only gets 6 (3!) months. I don't know whether the fact he was convicted at all should be cause for celebration, when one considers the mountain of cases that get dismissed due to lack of evidence etc. Re his father, apple clear doesn't fall far from the tree.0 -
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Alf Veedersane wrote: »The fact he still didn't really understand what he did wrong is a travesty.
Lacks empathy more than not understanding imo which is why he needs a much longer sentence.0 -
Pawwed Rig wrote: »Lacks empathy more than not understanding imo which is why he needs a much longer sentence.
I mean from the point of view that he thinks what he did, though I still don't think he appreciates the severity of that, was a consequence of drinking and that his biggest mistake was drinking so much that he somehow ended up doing something to her. That's how I read it anyway0 -
Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,519 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 17234
Well, sorry, I'm not friends with any rapists.
https://twitter.com/thelindywest/status/741334217368309760
https://twitter.com/thelindywest/status/741334924783845376Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.
CMod: Entertainment
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The Black Oil wrote: »Well, sorry, I'm not friends with any rapists.
https://twitter.com/thelindywest/status/741334217368309760
https://twitter.com/thelindywest/status/741334924783845376
You'd be surprised how people you trust and consider good humans can actually be anything but0 -
Colour me surprised BlackOil at the content you've linked to. I'm getting fed up of the bullsh*te that friends & peopel that I *know* know better have been peddling on social media of late.
"Can we stop with the #NotAllMen crap because you're all guilty". Dry your eyes out princess and sit down whilst I tell you the sorry news that yes, in fact, #NotAllMen, because it's .. wait for it .... NOT ALL MEN. Look your father/brother/husband/son/cousin/friend in the eye and tell them that they're supporters of rape, that they're guilty of rape by association of gender, and see how far you get. If you can even do it because you know it's f*cking absurd, and utterly, roundly insulting. Say that to my face and you aren't no friend/child/family-member/partner of mine because it's so insulting as that's how I was raised by society to view rape. Just like most other people.0 -
You'd be surprised how people you trust and consider good humans can actually be anything but
Exactly.
I don't see the problem with those tweets, they seem to say what most people know- that rapists aren't always a scary man hiding in the bushes with a shifty look on their face, they are people's friends, family and colleagues.
Maybe im missing something but I don't think they are insinuating that people are choosing to remain friends with rapists willingly.0 -
Exactly.
I don't see the problem with those tweets, they seem to say what most people know- that rapists aren't always a scary man hiding in the bushes with a shifty look on their face, they are people's friends, family and colleagues.
Maybe im missing something but I don't think they are insinuating that people are choosing to remain friends with rapists willingly.
The tweets are "correct" (other than the hysterical claim that everyone knows a rapist if taken to the conclusion of what it implies) until the very last one where it tries to associate the reality that most rapists are known to their victims with dubious notion of "rape culture". It's crap. Agenda-motivated crap.0 -
Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59098
It's Lindy West, so hardly a surprise TBH. If they were handing out "feminist" caricatures she'd be at the head of the queue with a big empty bowl.The tweets are "correct" until the very last one where it tries to associate the reality that most rapists are known to their victims with dubious notion of "rape culture". It's crap. Agenda-motivated crap.Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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