Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

unkel

Good luck with the test drive

Also, mandatory viewing:

Ioniq Winter test - Bjørn Nyland - December 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04kfyrZBrAU

I had test driven a Leaf in mid 2016 and I could get a good deal on one (sub €20k on the road with metallic paint and 6.6kW charger), but the range just didn't cut it for our only family car. Driving it hard took 20km off the range over 5km. Not giving me any confidence. Watching the above test made me go take a 24h test drive of Ioniq and I bought it the next day (after 10 hours of busy communication / negotiation with the dealers )

Mickeroo

Sent the request for the test drive on the website just there I actually drive right by the local Hyundai dealer on my way home so I might have to pop in for a nose about.

I just saw on the site the scrappage only runs until the 31st of January so that's probably cutting it a bit tight for me though (assuming they would even accept a van). Don't really intend to buy until the spring/summer.

unkel

Mickeroo wrote: »

I just saw on the site the scrappage only runs until the 31st of January

They always say that. I betya on February 1st or thereabouts the website is changed to say it only runs to 28th of February

Beware though, dealers handle the scrappage process differently. Some stick to the rules from Hyundai Ireland, like you having had to own the car for so long, the car having a valid NCT, etc. Other dealers don't care as long as you dump some sort of wreck with paperwork on their forecourt.

Mickeroo

I'll definitely be hoping for the latter in that case. Only info I can find about vans being accepted for scrappage is when you're buying another van.

Silent Running

Wasn't there a dealer in Limerick that would use one of their trade in bangers as scrappage? You didn't even need to see the car, just sign the paperwork and smiiiile.

JohnnyJohnJohns

Mickeroo wrote: »

About 50km each way is motorway so just under half the journey.

Have you had to do many long trips in it? Say Dublin to Cork?

I've done Dublin to Tralee fairly often. Probably once or twice a month. I've only had issues with chargers twice. I've done it as day trips often too and it's been fairly painless. Main issue is that what would take about 4 hours return in the diesel (with coffee stops) takes an extra 30 minutes.

JohnnyJohnJohns

Silent Running wrote: »

Wasn't there a dealer in Limerick that would use one of their trade in bangers as scrappage? You didn't even need to see the car, just sign the paperwork and smiiiile.

Definitely a dealer in Dublin who did that... Our car was worth about 4 grand so with the scrappage and selling our own car we had a new Ioniq with leather seats for 23k in aurora silver. No complaints from us on that front. Running costs work out about 3k a year less so in about 6 years time we start to be in profit + the value of the car.

Mickeroo

JohnnyJohnJohns wrote: »

I've done Dublin to Tralee fairly often. Probably once or twice a month. I've only had issues with chargers twice. I've done it as day trips often too and it's been fairly painless. Main issue is that what would take about 4 hours return in the diesel (with coffee stops) takes an extra 30 minutes.

Where would your charge stops be out of interest?

I've been doing a bit of messing on zap map and Dublin Airport looks handy enough from here. Top up in Longford, then again at the airport, and Longford again on the way back. The extra time is a small price to pay and sure it would break up the journey nicely anyway.

JohnnyJohnJohns

Mickeroo wrote: »

Where would your charge stops be out of interest?

I've been doing a bit of messing on zap map and Dublin Airport looks handy enough from here. Top up in Longford, then again at the airport, and Longford again on the way back. The extra time is a small price to pay and sure it would break up the journey nicely anyway.

I've done Roscrea for 25 mind and then Newcastle West for 10 mins. It can be done with one stop in Limerick but that charger is a nightmare with locals!

The airport is best avoided as a charge point, the location of the charger means it's often blocked or in use.

This site can be useful: https://abetterrouteplanner.com

Mickeroo

Ah thanks, that site seems very good. When I tried to do your route on zap map last night I don't think it suggested Newcastle West as a stop so I couldn't figure out where was handy for a charge after Roscrea and there wasn't enough juice to get back to Roscrea from Tralee after a charge.

Just one thing to help me understand a bit about the different chargers. So I know the Ioniq is CCS, when I look at the Newcastle west esb chargers on zap map there is no CCS, so are you using the "Type 2" there or what? (I'm pretty sure I read you can't use Chademo with the Ioniq)

Sorry for the questions

fricatus

Mickeroo wrote: »

Just one thing to help me understand a bit about the different chargers. So I know the Ioniq is CCS, when I look at the Newcastle west esb chargers on zap map there is no CCS, so are you using the "Type 2" there or what?

According to the ecars app, there is CCS there. It's sometimes referred to as "Combo DC" so maybe that's why you don't see CCS? I think that might be one of the chargers that has only got CCS recently, so another explanation is that it just isn't up to date on zap map.

Mickeroo wrote: »

(I'm pretty sure I read you can't use Chademo with the Ioniq)

That's correct!

JohnnyJohnJohns

Newcastle West we only upgraded to have CCS in the last year or so. I think Zap Map shows the old version.

The ecars app is annoying but generally reliable as once when I was caught out the CCS was down in Roscrea but Zap Map didn't have that info. Now I always check eCars to see the status of chargers on route!

A brother of mine lives in Westport and I've done that with a single stop in Longford and granny cable at his place. Ireland is such a small country that an EV can be a minor pain given the charging network but it's infrequent enough annoyances that are, for me at least, outweighed by the driving experience!

Silent Running

Yeah, Use Zap Map with caution! Their information is often out of date.

It caused me a headache in the UK a while ago. Zap Map said a charger was out of order and I avoided it. Due to lack of choice in the area, I had to try it and it was working fine.

Fermi

Silent Running wrote: »

Wasn't there a dealer in Limerick that would use one of their trade in bangers as scrappage? You didn't even need to see the car, just sign the paperwork and smiiiile.

Not only that - he sold me the car, changed the paperwork of the car to my name, processed it as scrap, I never actually saw the car.

irishgrover

out of interest, has anyone seen first had, or heard of / read any reports whatsoever of the battery SOH (State of Health) dipping below 100%? One would expect that now, after a couple of years there would be some reports of battery degradation in the wild?

unkel

Fermi wrote: »

Not only that - he sold me the car, changed the paperwork of the car to my name, processed it as scrap, I never actually saw the car.

You're the boss

My car was ready for the junkyard, just a few days NCT left. Took the pretty decent Bosch battery out of it and replaced it with a dead old battery. Jump started the car, kept my fingers crossed and it made it all the way to the dealers (20km). No doubt the last trip that car ever made

Mickeroo

Had two dealers say they would take my van for scrappage which would be great, Of course it broke down 100m from the car park at work this morning. The joys of it.

Haven't been able to nail down a date for a test drive yet but I'm probably dreaming here anyway, don't think I can justify the financial ouutlay for the car at all at the moment unfortunately when I look at my finances. I'll probably have to spend whatever to get the van back on the road for a few months then see what my options are on the 2nd hand market later in the year.

Maybe next time for the EV but it's not looking likely right now unfortunately.

unkel

Did you do some proper sums, Mickeroo? Of course you will have to either come up with a lot of cash up front yourself or get finance, but if you calculate the total cost of ownership, it might be cheaper than you think. And if you get the car cheap (€26k on the road), your depreciation will be minimal (easily the lowest of any car you can buy new right now)

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Did you do some proper sums, Mickeroo? Of course you will have to either come up with a lot of cash up front yourself or get finance, but if you calculate the total cost of ownership, it might be cheaper than you think. And if you get the car cheap (€26k on the road), your depreciation will be minimal (easily the lowest of any car you can buy new right now)

+1

mickeroo, you need to crack out the spreadsheet.... what are you spending on the van on diesel and now getting it back on the road plus ongoing maintenance on it since its already acting up.

Get a quote on the finance and work out the monthly's and then decide if you can afford it or not.... you might find you cant afford to keep the van and a new(or s/h) car is cheaper!... alot depends on your mileage.

irishgrover

If you want to pm me I have an xls that I used for same purpose....at the time I was thinking of giving it to my Hyundai dealer as they were all utterly ****ing clueless

cloughy

anyone in Dublin get a test drive of an Ioniq, I have completed the on-line form with EPM on long-mile requesting a test drive, and not as much as a reply or acknowledgement of the mail.

Think may try alternatives, as would like to drive the car, as Drove the Kona but felt it was too small boot wise for the money, so want to see what Ioniq actually like, but then may wait for E-Niro depending on price and spec,

Mickeroo

unkel wrote: »

Did you do some proper sums, Mickeroo? Of course you will have to either come up with a lot of cash up front yourself or get finance, but if you calculate the total cost of ownership, it might be cheaper than you think. And if you get the car cheap (€26k on the road), your depreciation will be minimal (easily the lowest of any car you can buy new right now)

KCross wrote: »

+1

mickeroo, you need to crack out the spreadsheet.... what are you spending on the van on diesel and now getting it back on the road plus ongoing maintenance on it since its already acting up.

Get a quote on the finance and work out the monthly's and then decide if you can afford it or not.... you might find you cant afford to keep the van and a new(or s/h) car is cheaper!... alot depends on your mileage.

irishgrover wrote: »

If you want to pm me I have an xls that I used for same purpose....at the time I was thinking of giving it to my Hyundai dealer as they were all utterly ****ing clueless

Thanks lads, I've basically been going on the spending breakdown from my online banking.

I don't think I spent over 2500 on the van last year between diesel, cvrt, tax (not including insurance in that figure as it would be similar on the EV I think). Fuel alone was roughly 1700 I think (generally fill up with 65 or so every two weeks), my mileage is relatively low/average at only 13000 a year as my commute is quite short.

I haven't looked at finance offers from dealers yet bar whats on their websites, I was looking at the "eco car" loan from my credit union which is a minimum of 20k but at a smaller APR than the regular car loan. I would look to apply for that 20k loan and make up the rest from savings. So say a 7k from savings then loan repayments of about 4800 for the year for 5 years for a 191 on the road.

I know I'm not factoring things like depreciation into the above but to me on paper at least it's maybe a 5000 euro loan +fuel/maintenance/etc for a used ICE vs a 20000 loan for a new EV.

I will PM you for that spreadsheet irishgrover as I think I badly need it.

ewj1978

For 13000kms:
You'll be spending ~€342 on leccy for the year on standard rate or ~ €155 on night rate ( based on the ioniq having 28kw usable and doing 180km per charge)

so, ioniq will save you ~€2158/~€2345 on fuel costs but you'll then be paying ~€4800,on the loan, a year to drive it...

unkel

€4800 on the loan is not the same as cost. In fact it is far more than the depreciation + interest, so you would be building up equity in it (akin to saving money into a savings account)

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

€4800 on the loan is not the same as cost. In fact it is far more than the depreciation + interest, so you would be building up equity in it (akin to saving money into a savings account)

I struggled with this part too, it's very easy to equate monthly loan payments with your old monthly fuel bill and determine "savings"


However for an accurate figure you need to account for depreciation as the cost, and not the loan payments.

Mickeroo

I don't want to clog the thread with financial advice but can you explain that a bit to me? Pm if ye feel this is too much of a derailment

unkel

If you bought Ioniq for 26k on a loan (5% APR) and you paid back 450 a month and you sold it after 3 years for 17k, it meant the car did not cost you 450 per month (the payment on your loan)

The car cost you 26k-17k over 3 years, which is 250 per month in depreciation and 5% of the average outstanding balance of 21.5k is 90 per month in interest

So the car cost you a total of 340 per month, not 450 per month (plus of course tax, insurance, and electricity)

BigAl81

irishgrover wrote:

out of interest, has anyone seen first had, or heard of / read any reports whatsoever of the battery SOH (State of Health) dipping below 100%? One would expect that now, after a couple of years there would be some reports of battery degradation in the wild?

I haven't seen any figures but I did get this from my dealer...

"In relation to the EV Battery Warranty on the Kona and Ioniq Models, the  EV High Voltage Battery is 8 years/ 200,000Kms (whichever occurs first), with a 70% state of health condition."

70% seems low to me!

irishgrover

BigAl81 wrote: »

I haven't seen any figures but I did get this from my dealer...

"In relation to the EV Battery Warranty on the Kona and Ioniq Models, the  EV High Voltage Battery is 8 years/ 200,000Kms (whichever occurs first), with a 70% state of health condition."

70% seems low to me!

yes, 70% does seem low.
However I am unaware of any person anywhere in the world reporting SOH < 100%. Giving that the cars is a couple of years old now this surprises me. I was thinking maybe
a.) The SOH will not decrease until the "hidden" part of the battery is used up. For example if actual battery capacity is 31.x but advertised as 28 then SOH only begins to display a decline once capacity goes below 28.
b.) The PID used for SOH in torque pro is wrong.
c.) It's a truly exceptional battery
d.) Degradation is happening just no one is reporting it yet, or I just have not seen those reports.

irishgrover

irishgrover wrote: »

If you want to pm me I have an xls that I used for same purpose....at the time I was thinking of giving it to my Hyundai dealer as they were all utterly ****ing clueless

FYI... I've had multiple requests for the above. I need to tidy it up a bit, which I hope to do over the weeked.

For those that PM'ed, I'll look at it over the weekend and then share it.

ELM327

irishgrover wrote: »

yes, 70% does seem low.
However I am unaware of any person anywhere in the world reporting SOH < 100%. Giving that the cars is a couple of years old now this surprises me. I was thinking maybe
a.) The SOH will not decrease until the "hidden" part of the battery is used up. For example if actual battery capacity is 31.x but advertised as 28 then SOH only begins to display a decline once capacity goes below 28.
b.) The PID used for SOH in torque pro is wrong.
c.) It's a truly exceptional battery
d.) Degradation is happening just no one is reporting it yet, or I just have not seen those reports.

A is factually incorrect as the buffer is not and will never be usable.
SOH is a percentage of usable capacity only.
A battery with gross 31.x and net 28 @100% SOH, after 10% degradation will show 90% SOH, ~27.9 gross and 25.2 net


Similar to a Leaf, if you look at Leafspy, or a Tesla on VisibleTesla, or CanZE for Renault etc, the SOH is off the usable capacity not the gross.

liamog

irishgrover wrote: »

yes, 70% does seem low.
However I am unaware of any person anywhere in the world reporting SOH < 100%. Giving that the cars is a couple of years old now this surprises me. I was thinking maybe
a.) The SOH will not decrease until the "hidden" part of the battery is used up. For example if actual battery capacity is 31.x but advertised as 28 then SOH only begins to display a decline once capacity goes below 28.
b.) The PID used for SOH in torque pro is wrong.
c.) It's a truly exceptional battery
d.) Degradation is happening just no one is reporting it yet, or I just have not seen those reports.

I suspect it's a) when the battery is degraded to 90% it will have 27.9kWh and therefore show a SOH of 99.6%. We need to find an Ioniq owner in Arizona with a broken cooler.

unkel

@irishgrover - when you have your spreadsheet updated, you can post here and attach the spreadsheet to your post, so you don't have to PM it out to lots of people

liamog wrote: »

We need to find an Ioniq owner in Arizona with a broken cooler.

LOL, bloody unlikely. Ioniq still only sells in CA in the USA. And it doesn't break. And when it does, it's covered under a 5 year warranty

(and the battery warranty in the USA is a lifetime warranty, no mileage limit either)

KCross

liamog wrote: »

I suspect it's a) when the battery is degraded to 90% it will have 27.9kWh and therefore show a SOH of 99.6%. We need to find an Ioniq owner in Arizona with a broken cooler.

I'd agree.

Its probably a combination of a and b.

The Leaf shows degradation almost from the day you drive it out of the showroom which is what you would expect from Li-ion. Its not believable that there is zero degradation in the Ioniq battery after 2 years.

It might also be a case where they have 2kWh of buffer to protect the battery which is unusable but maybe they have another 1kWh that is hidden and gets released as the battery degrades and thus maintains your range.

Who knows really, other than Hyundai, how they have implemented their BMS software.

BigAl81

When is 100% not 100%?

Have the car 2 weeks, I was typically getting 208 to 210kms on the clock after a full charge on the 22kw AC chargers in work.

Up north at the in laws and just unplugged the granny cable after an overnight charge... And the range at 100% battery is just 192kms ;(

That's about 10% less than I was expecting!!

Is it possible the higher power charge in work was warming the battery and therefore showing me more range?

Does the trickle charge on the granny cable leave the battery cold and therefore show me less range?

I have to drive 170kms later today from the north down to Dublin with a lot of motorway driving, going to be cutting it very fine!!

The range anxiety is strong this morning!!

Who thinks I'll make or without stopping for a charge? The missus used to get nervous if we'd only a third of a tank of petrol left!! Limping home with 10 or 15kms left in the tank, assuming we make it, will have her sweating buckets!!!

Wish me luck!!

Dont be at yourself

BigAl81 wrote: »

When is 100% not 100%?

Have the car 2 weeks, I was typically getting 208 to 210kms on the clock after a full charge on the 22kw AC chargers in work.

Up north at the in laws and just unplugged the granny cable after an overnight charge... And the range at 100% battery is just 192kms ;(

That's about 10% less than I was expecting!!

Is it possible the higher power charge in work was warming the battery and therefore showing me more range?

Does the trickle charge on the granny cable leave the battery cold and therefore show me less range?

I have to drive 170kms later today from the north down to Dublin with a lot of motorway driving, going to be cutting it very fine!!

The range anxiety is strong this morning!!

Who thinks I'll make or without stopping for a charge? The missus used to get nervous if we'd only a third of a tank of petrol left!! Limping home with 10 or 15kms left in the tank, assuming we make it, will have her sweating buckets!!!

Wish me luck!!

Guessometer will look at previous driving efficiency and possibly temperature as well, may explain the low number.

Plenty of CCS along the M1 though; Applegreen Castlebellingham and Lusk (both north and south bound), as well as Lidl in Drogheda. In your shoes, I'd absolutely do a 10 minutes pitstop.

Silent Running

BigAl81 wrote: »

When is 100% not 100%?

Have the car 2 weeks, I was typically getting 208 to 210kms on the clock after a full charge on the 22kw AC chargers in work.

Up north at the in laws and just unplugged the granny cable after an overnight charge... And the range at 100% battery is just 192kms ;(

That's about 10% less than I was expecting!!

Is it possible the higher power charge in work was warming the battery and therefore showing me more range?

Does the trickle charge on the granny cable leave the battery cold and therefore show me less range?

I have to drive 170kms later today from the north down to Dublin with a lot of motorway driving, going to be cutting it very fine!!

The range anxiety is strong this morning!!

Who thinks I'll make or without stopping for a charge? The missus used to get nervous if we'd only a third of a tank of petrol left!! Limping home with 10 or 15kms left in the tank, assuming we make it, will have her sweating buckets!!!

Wish me luck!!

Don't be afraid of the "splash and dash"© charge.

I use this a lot. A quick 10 minute blast does wonders for the range.

BigAl81

I wouldn't say plenty off CCS unfortunately.

2 individual charging machines on the main motorway (Applegreen stations) between two major European cities is hardly plenty. Especially as 1 car can charge at a time, so if there's a Leaf 40 after pulling in ahead of you good luck!

My aim was not to have to rely on the public network at all. Up to this morning with my 210kms of range that plan was looking good. With 190kms now not so much!

Silent Running

BigAl81 wrote: »

I wouldn't say plenty off CCS unfortunately.

2 individual charging machines on the main motorway (Applegreen stations) between two major European cities is hardly plenty. Especially as 1 car can charge at a time, so if there's a Leaf 40 after pulling in ahead of you good luck!

My aim was not to have to rely on the public network at all. Up to this morning with my 210kms of range that plan was looking good. With 190kms now not so much!

Where are you coming from in the North? There are CCS chargers north of the border. 3 between Belfast and the border. 3 between Derry and Newry.

There are 6 between the border and the start of the M50 (2 online and 4 just offline, but only just)

unkel

Start the 100% charged car on a frosty morning with climate on at 23C and your range will show 190km. Turn off the climate and the range will immediately show 210km. If you granny charge overnight on a cold winters day, you should auto preheat to save range if you really need it to get home! The heater is nearly 7kW which is great for heating up the car, but it obviously eats range too.

Madisonmenece

I don't think mine has ever showed 210 even after clearing history and trip computers and turning off heating/Ac and only have it since 4th of Jan. Could be the preheating cabin but usually still plugged in during preheating

unkel

Hopefully we'll get a summer like last year, Madisonmenece. Range showing about 235-240km every single time for months on end. That's with my heavy foot and only ever driving in sport mode

slave1

Madisonmenece wrote: »

I don't think mine has ever showed 210 even after clearing history and trip computers and turning off heating/Ac and only have it since 4th of Jan. Could be the preheating cabin but usually still plugged in during preheating

It will during the summer, we've seen 210kms+ on plenty of occasions with the L30

Madisonmenece

I was wondering how much the ambient temp would affect it, Mon - Fri I do on average 170 - 180 km per day between work and evening milage so on the red when I plug in.

I usually have an hour spare before. I head back out after work but try to avoid boosting on Dayrate electricity.

ei9go

My friend has an unusual problem with his Premium SE Ioniq.

He has regen set to max in all modes but every now and again it resets all modes to minimum while driving.

Dealer says no fault is being logged when it happens.

Anyone come across this before?

sean72

Can anyone tell me if the LED light above the type 2 port on the 2019 ioniq is new? It’s caused an issue for me with my home charger

unkel

ei9go wrote: »

My friend has an unusual problem with his Premium SE Ioniq.

He has regen set to max in all modes but every now and again it resets all modes to minimum while driving.

Dealer says no fault is being logged when it happens.

Anyone come across this before?

It happens to all Ioniqs before the firmware fix of over a year ago. The dealer will apply the fix for free.

irishgeo

I do over 24000kms a year. Was looking at the plugin hybrid. Anyone have one who does that sort of travel.

Old diesel

BigAl81 wrote: »

When is 100% not 100%?

Have the car 2 weeks, I was typically getting 208 to 210kms on the clock after a full charge on the 22kw AC chargers in work.

Up north at the in laws and just unplugged the granny cable after an overnight charge... And the range at 100% battery is just 192kms ;(

That's about 10% less than I was expecting!!

Is it possible the higher power charge in work was warming the battery and therefore showing me more range?

Does the trickle charge on the granny cable leave the battery cold and therefore show me less range?

I have to drive 170kms later today from the north down to Dublin with a lot of motorway driving, going to be cutting it very fine!!

The range anxiety is strong this morning!!

Who thinks I'll make or without stopping for a charge? The missus used to get nervous if we'd only a third of a tank of petrol left!! Limping home with 10 or 15kms left in the tank, assuming we make it, will have her sweating buckets!!!

Wish me luck!!

Did the journey go okay in the end

irishgeo

irishgeo wrote: »

I do over 24000kms a year. Was looking at the plugin hybrid. Anyone have one who does that sort of travel.

I do 30,000 Kms + a year in a BMW i3 33 Kwh with Rex , the Rex is a small petrol generator, will travel 170-200 Kms in EV and then petrol backup if you need it but can also use fast chargers.

Here's my thread.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057812141&page=39