Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

Hope you'll get it sorted out. The CCS cars and infrastructure appear to be less robust for some reason compared to CHAdeMO. Maybe it's not as well designed or defined protocol as the Japanese one which just normally works.

KCross

samih wrote: »

Hope you'll get it sorted out. The CCS cars and infrastructure appear to be less robust for some reason compared to CHAdeMO. Maybe it's not as well designed or defined protocol as the Japanese one which just normally works.

Lots of anecdotal evidence that that is exactly the case. The CCS potocol is apparently too loose and open to interpretation which is why various new cars and various chargers behave differently.

The Model 3 being the latest one that had issues that required software updates on both car and chargers to make it work.

I guess they will tie it down over the years ahead.

thelikelylad

BigAl81 wrote: »

Came back to the car after just under 20 minutes expecting to be nearly full but was only at 28%, and the car said another 36 minutes remaining!! WTF!? That makes no sense at all, but here I sit waiting ;(

I used Cashel Ionity last week, there were issues with unit #3 and #4, IIRC. Same symptoms as you describe with low rate of charge on one unit and then another unit kept failing while establishing the charge session. I was on the phone to Ionity through it all, they were very helpful in fairness. I moved then to #2 and charged no problem at full speed. 36->94% in about 20mins I think.

adunis

Hmmmmmm I'm rather surprised at the range,re charger as suggested there appears to be teething troubles........

Black_Knight

thelikelylad wrote: »

I used Cashel Ionity last week, there were issues with unit #3 and #4, IIRC. Same symptoms as you describe with low rate of charge on one unit and then another unit kept failing while establishing the charge session. I was on the phone to Ionity through it all, they were very helpful in fairness. I moved then to #2 and charged no problem at full speed. 36->94% in about 20mins I think.

Ugh. That's pretty ****e! 50% chance of getting a crappy charger.

I'll remember this on Monday when I stop by

Black_Knight

zg3409 wrote: »

I swapped mine recently just as a precaution, but I had 2 failed to charge at home, car is 2.5 years old 45,000 km. I did have 12v battery troubles before and my auxiliary battery saver kept alerting me after any nights not left on charge, so it was worth the few quid. I did attempt to get dealer to replace it before it passed the 2 year 12v battery warranty period, but dealer said their battery tester said battery was OK and warranty would only replace it if tester said battery was faulty or worn out. Lots of threads online about early 12v battery fails on Ioniq, partly I suspect due to sending cars by ship from korea, and also leaving them not charging at dealers forecourts for weeks.

I wonder might this (bad/deteriorating 12v batteries) be the cause for my failed public charging today. Ecars said the charger failed to lock into my car and thus failed. Car would be running on the 12v for that

adunis

Black Knight trust me,sub optimal 12v causes all manner of random weird stuff,it doesn't even have to be very bad.

Black_Knight

adunis wrote: »

Black Knight trust me,sub optimal 12v causes all manner of random weird stuff,it doesn't even have to be very bad.

Any specific type of battery I should be swapping it out with? Don't fancy spending 100s only to have this happen again soon. Halfords is my only option in the short term. Putting in my car details only returns 1 battery:
https://www.halfords.ie/motoring/bulbs-blades-batteries/car-batteries/yuasa-hsb056-silver-12v-car-battery-5-year-guarantee

Silent Running

Black_Knight wrote: »

Any specific type of battery I should be swapping it out with? Don't fancy spending 100s only to have this happen again soon. Halfords is my only option in the short term. Putting in my car details only returns 1 battery:
https://www.halfords.ie/motoring/bulbs-blades-batteries/car-batteries/yuasa-hsb056-silver-12v-car-battery-5-year-guarantee

At least it's a higher capacity than the original (didn't someone upthread say it was 30Ah?)

Does the warranty not cover the 12V battery, or is it outside warranty?

Black_Knight

Silent Running wrote: »

At least it's a higher capacity than the original (didn't someone upthread say it was 30Ah?)

Does the warranty not cover the 12V battery, or is it outside warranty?

Based on my experience with Kearys, they'll deny deny deny any fault with the car battery and not replace it. Would be interesting to see their/Hyundais stance if they refused to change it, but if I subsequently changed it and all was well.

I might try again later with my other cable

Just checked the battery. Its 40ah

cfingers

Hey folks, I just got myself an ioniq and I am loving it. Still getting to grips with all the technology inside. I've searched online about changing the dash from miles to km but it looks like this is not possible. Has anyone found a way of doing this?

Petetheroadie

cfingers wrote: »

Hey folks, I just got myself an ioniq and I am loving it. Still getting to grips with all the technology inside. I've searched online about changing the dash from miles to km but it looks like this is not possible. Has anyone found a way of doing this?

Apparently it's not possible, but if you change it to km in the settings you'll see km below the miles in the Speedo and in the EV menu

Petetheroadie

Ps, well wear!

KCross

Black_Knight wrote: »

Any specific type of battery I should be swapping it out with? Don't fancy spending 100s only to have this happen again soon.

Just stick it on a charger for 24-48hrs over the weekend and it will likely be fine.

Mickeroo

Black_Knight wrote: »

Based on my experience with Kearys, they'll deny deny deny any fault with the car battery and not replace it. Would be interesting to see their/Hyundais stance if they refused to change it, but if I subsequently changed it and all was well.

I might try again later with my other cable

Just checked the battery. Its 40ah

Could be wrong but I think the battery isn't covered by the 5 year warranty and only has a 2 year warranty.

adunis

Battery 2 year warranty
Sticking it on a charger won't help
Yuasa ybx 76 euro ISH from tame motor factor
Varta silver dynamic 5000
Will only take one size without modifying bracket,needs lip on the bottom of battery case adapters used to bring posts up to euro size

Black_Knight

adunis wrote: »

Battery 2 year warranty
Sticking it on a charger won't help
Yuasa ybx 76 euro ISH from tame motor factor
Varta silver dynamic 5000
Will only take one size without modifying bracket,needs lip on the bottom of battery case adapters used to bring posts up to euro size

Yuasa HSB056 Silver from Halfords is kinda my only option. Might pick one up tomorrow. Tried another charger this evening and same result (added bonus, the charger wouldn't release my cable).

Good news though, ESB are upgrading the chargers to those better 22kw ones. Copley Street (cork) earmarked for one soon so I hear.

No mention of fast chargers though

KCross

adunis wrote: »

Sticking it on a charger won't help

Why?

The issue isnt the capacity of the battery.

adunis

Kcross,it's more the resilience/discharge rate of the battery than the capacity,grand you could leave it permanently connected up to a trickle charger but who's gonna do that ?

adunis

Black Knight,I'd be trying o connell bros /motorway/gsf/boss Micheal o Connor rather than giving Halfords their premium

Black_Knight

adunis wrote: »

Black Knight,I'd be trying o connell bros /motorway/gsf/boss Micheal o Connor rather than giving Halfords their premium

Thanks. Heading up the country on Monday so wouldn't mind getting this sorted ASAP (Halfords probably the only option today). Going to check out a fast charger this morning just to be sure I they'll still work for me.

Edit: motorway open at 12. Might call into them.

Is there anything special about changing the 12v battery in an EV?

KCross

adunis wrote: »

Kcross,it's more the resilience/discharge rate of the battery than the capacity,grand you could leave it permanently connected up to a trickle charger but who's gonna do that ?

I don’t think so.

No one is suggesting leaving it permanently on trickle. I’m saying one full trickle charge and that will likely do it.

It’s a general EV issue that the 12V battery doesn’t get enough top up trickle charge from the high voltage battery and once the nights get cold the 12V batteries start to play up.

The 12V in an ICE is getting decent topup all the time with the alternator. EVs only do a topup occasionally and it’s not enough.

Buying a new battery will “solve” the short term problem but it’s a waste of money imo.

adunis

Yes 12 v battery will "solve" the issue for about another 3 years I'd say I could deal with that expense, unfortunately an occasional top up charge won't cut it it's gonna be every night once It starts acting up.
The biggest issue with the Ioniq is it will leave the battery go all the was down to 11v before it tops it up enough to keep the electronics ticking over but not quiet enough for the solenoids) contactors etc

Black_Knight

Battery voltage reading a bit low. Should be up around 12.6+ yeah?

KCross

adunis wrote: »

The biggest issue with the Ioniq is it will leave the battery go all the was down to 11v before it tops it up enough to keep the electronics ticking over but not quiet enough for the solenoids) contactors etc

Exactly, so what use will a new battery do. It will just happen again and I don’t believe it will take 3 years either. There are loads of people have 12V issues in cars much less than 3yrs old. There’s a good chance you’ll be in the same position next winter.

KCross

Black_Knight wrote: »

Battery voltage reading a bit low. Should be up around 12.6+ yeah?

Myself and adunis don’t agree but at 12.3V I think all that battery needs is a good extended trickle charge.

adunis

Yep,and around 14v when charging.
If there's a memory function on your multimeter leave it on overnight Just to see as I said mine was dipping all the way to 11v before getting it's charge and I think therein lies the problem the car checks the state of charge of the battery at intervals rather than constantly monitoring it as far as I can tell
Fresh battery will hold its charge better.
And yes I believe I will be changing the battery again in another 2/3 years if so I may do a little adaptation next time and stick a bigger one in,
The propper solution is probably a specialised deep cycle battery rather than a cranking battery/ very expensive li-ion one.
What I can definitively say is this
Replacing my battery eliminated all my odd issues with scheduled charging cable releasing etc. And the original battery still tests as very good.

Black_Knight

KCross wrote: »

Myself and adunis don’t agree but at 12.3V I think all that battery needs is a good extended trickle charge.

Don't have a trickle charger. Granted it's cheaper, but right now I'm in need of a quick solution. Any other week and I'd not be too fussed.

Black_Knight

adunis wrote: »

Yep,and around 14v when charging.
If there's a memory function on your multimeter leave it on overnight Just to see as I said mine was dipping all the way to 11v before getting it's charge and I think therein lies the problem the car checks the state of charge of the battery at intervals rather than constantly monitoring it as far as I can tell
Fresh battery will hold its charge better.
And yes I believe I will be changing the battery again in another 2/3 years if so I may do a little adaptation next time and stick a bigger one in,
The propper solution is probably a specialised deep cycle battery rather than a cranking battery/ very expensive li-ion one.
What I can definitively say is this
Replacing my battery eliminated all my odd issues with scheduled charging cable releasing etc. And the original battery still tests as very good.

No memory function I'm afraid. I'm consistently unable to charge at Ecars slow chargers now. That'll be my litmus test with the new battery.

Black_Knight

Back from motorway, guy checked the battery and while the volts were down a bit, the amps were perfectly fine. Ended up not buying a battery on his recommendation, but I'll get onto Hyundai next week and see if they can give me any insight.

KCross

Black_Knight wrote: »

...but I'll get onto Hyundai next week and see if they can give me any insight.

By any chance do you do mainly short trips rather than long trips?

And do you charge the car every day or only every few days and when you do charge it is it to 100%?

Black_Knight

KCross wrote: »

By any chance do you do mainly short trips rather than long trips?

And do you charge the car every day or only every few days and when you do charge it is it to 100%?

Mainly short (commute is ~8km each way). The odd longer drive every 2 weeks at the weekend maybe.
Charge it maybe twice a week to 100%.

I'll bring the multimeter with me and check the voltage periodically.

The lips

Is there a permanent live 12v in the boot?

Would it be worth anything to leave a solar trickle charger on the parcel shelf?

adunis

Kearys will be worse than useless,they'll just stick on the battery tester which will report the battery is fine and then remind you about the two year warranty on 12v battery.
Commute state of charge of traction battery have no influence

KCross

Black_Knight wrote: »

Mainly short (commute is ~8km each way). The odd longer drive every 2 weeks at the weekend maybe.
Charge it maybe twice a week to 100%.

Thats your problem.

The radio, wipers, lights, USB ports etc are all running on the 12V but your commute is too short to adequately top up the 12V and when the car senses a low 12V it only spends 20mins topping it up which is nowhere near enough so a combination of cold weather, using lights etc and insufficient topups slowly takes the battery to a low state where you start seeing odd things happening.

If you were charging the car everyday you'd also be less likely to have an issue as the 12V is topped up at the end of the charge session and is visible by the 3rd light blinking on its own. Since you only charge twice a week the 12V is missing that topup as well!

The software is supposed to sense a low 12V and top it up but manufacturers (at least Hyundai and Nissan) do not appear to have got it right yet.

I presume you have checked that you have the battery saver option turned on in the menu and you see it activated every now and again when you sit in in the morning?

adunis

To recap
My own personal experience
New battery fixed everything
Old battery still tests fine
Lowest I've seen new battery dip , is 12.1v

KCross

Commute state of charge of traction battery have no influence

It clearly does though. Read the manual on 12V top ups and you'll see that what I've posted is correct.

adunis wrote: »

To recap
My own personal experience
New battery fixed everything
Old battery still tests fine
Lowest I've seen new battery dip , is 12.1v

I get it, thats your own experience and it worked for you. I wont argue that with you but it doesnt mean its the same for everyone. Maybe you had a dud battery.

What I've posted is my own personal experience too and black_knight has a very specific use case with really short journeys and only two charges per week. That clearly affects the 12V's ability to be re-charged.


We see the very same posts on the forum each year around this time. Thats not a coincidence.


A new battery will certainly help but it wouldnt be my first port of call if it has already been proven/tested that the battery is fine.

adunis wrote: »

Lowest I've seen new battery dip , is 12.1v

12.1V is a really low voltage for the 12V to be at. Thats like 10% or something. You are taking a chance there if thats a regular occurrence for you. Lets see how your winter goes!

Mickeroo

KCross wrote: »

It clearly does though. Read the manual on 12V top ups and you'll see that what I've posted is correct.

What does it say? Is it basically that the 12v is constantly topped up while you're driving or the car is on so the less driving you do the less the 12v gets topped up? How much driving would one need to do to have it topped up adequately?

KCross

Mickeroo wrote: »

What does it say? Is it basically that the 12v is constantly topped up while you're driving or the car is on so the less driving you do the less the 12v gets topped up? How much driving would one need to do to have it topped up adequately?

Its topped up 3 ways....

- While driving
- At the end of the charge sessions (3rd light blinking on its own)
- Battery saver mode which only runs for 20mins every few days


If you're doing short drives and not plugging in its only the 3rd option you are relying on which wont be enough in dark winter nights when you are using lights, wipers, radio, wireless charger etc all directly draining the 12V.

adunis

To further clarify my car's charged every other day at worst and never does less than 22km at a time.the original battery still tests ok both for voltage and current don't forget battery tester is a pretty primitive device.12v in an EV has to deal with a total different set of criteria to a starting battery,now to be fair there is no ambiguity with an Ice battery when it's on the way out clearly not so in EV land. I remain convinced a deep cycle battery is still the answer.I will graciously admitt I'm wrong when proven so but Black Knight will be buying a battery.......

adunis

To further clarify my car's charged every other day at worst and never does less than 22km at a time.the original battery still tests ok both for voltage and current don't forget battery tester is a pretty primitive device.12v in an EV has to deal with a total different set of criteria to a starting battery,now to be fair there is no ambiguity with an Ice battery when it's on the way out clearly not so in EV land. I remain convinced a deep cycle battery is still the answer.I will graciously admitt I'm wrong when proven so but Black Knight will be buying a battery.......

adunis

To further clarify my car's charged every other day at worst and never does less than 22km at a time.the original battery still tests ok both for voltage and current don't forget battery tester is a pretty primitive device.12v in an EV has to deal with a total different set of criteria to a starting battery,now to be fair there is no ambiguity with an Ice battery when it's on the way out clearly not so in EV land. I remain convinced a deep cycle battery is still the answer.I will graciously admitt I'm wrong when proven so but Black Knight will be buying a battery.......

adunis

Jeez apologies for the repeated post that wasn't intentional ,just to add a P.S.
I haven't seen the auxiliary battery saver message since either.

Mickeroo

I have the battery saver enabled and I've seen the third light flashing when the car is sitting on the driveway, so it's definitely charged the 12v a few times, but I've never seen the auxillary battery saver message on startup. What's the criteria for that message actually appearing?

My commute is 26km each way , so roughly 52km a day. Weekend can be anything from 4km to 200km+ depending on what we're up to. Would have thought the battery would begetting enough topping up from my commute and the battery saver.

ELM327

Mickeroo wrote: »

I have the battery saver enabled and I've seen the third light flashing when the car is sitting on the driveway, so it's definitely charged the 12v a few times, but I've never seen the auxillary battery saver message on startup. What's the criteria for that message actually appearing?

12v Battery having low voltage when the battery saver check is run and the car is not plugged in, meaning the car had to use the HV battery to top up the 12v


You should check that it is enabled, I found this a lifesaver in mine!

Old diesel

If you plug in the car at 100 percent - will that top up battery.

Or does car need to have used some percentage used of the main 28 kwh battery - ie plugging in at 96 to 99 percent.

Mickeroo

ELM327 wrote: »

12v Battery having low voltage when the battery saver check is run and the car is not plugged in, meaning the car had to use the HV battery to top up the 12v


You should check that it is enabled, I found this a lifesaver in mine!

It's definitely enabled, it was one of the first things I checked when i got the car home from the dealer thanks to this thread!

KCross

Mickeroo wrote: »

I have the battery saver enabled and I've seen the third light flashing when the car is sitting on the driveway, so it's definitely charged the 12v a few times, but I've never seen the auxillary battery saver message on startup. What's the criteria for that message actually appearing?

If you are charging most days, and since you have a decent commute, the 12V is probably not going low so the battery saver mode doesnt need to kick in.

It is still checking it but getting a high enough reading and hence doing nothing. Thats exactly what you want to see.

If you are seeing the battery saver mode on a regular basis you have a problem. If you dont see it at all happy days!

adunis

Okay I'm going to make it my mission to find out the actual 12v charging protocol for the EV ,it's going to be difficult cos I don't know any Hyundai mechanics and it is not on any of the commercial diagnostics/databases I have access to.It does appear however on the surface to be as simple as every X hours have a look and too up if necessary.

ELM327

Old diesel wrote: »

If you plug in the car at 100 percent - will that top up battery.

Or does car need to have used some percentage used of the main 28 kwh battery - ie plugging in at 96 to 99 percent.

I think it should top up the 12v at the end of a charging cycle. But even if you plug in at displayed "100%" there's still energy to be added even for a minute or less and should therefore top up the 12v.


I know if I charged to 100% on AC, plugged out and plugged back in again, a 10-15 second charge cycle would occur.