Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

ELM327

adunis wrote: »

Okay I'm going to make it my mission to find out the actual 12v charging protocol for the EV ,it's going to be difficult cos I don't know any Hyundai mechanics and it is not on any of the commercial diagnostics/databases I have access to.It does appear however on the surface to be as simple as every X hours have a look and too up if necessary.

I think it's once every 72 hours

Mickeroo

KCross wrote: »

If you are charging most days, and since you have a decent commute, the 12V is probably not going low so the battery saver mode doesnt need to kick in.

It is still checking it but getting a high enough reading and hence doing nothing. Thats exactly what you want to see.

If you are seeing the battery saver mode on a regular basis you have a problem. If you dont see it at all happy days!

So when I've randomly seen the third light flashing while the car is parked up you reckon it's only been checking the 12v rather than actually charging it?

listermint

KCross wrote: »

It clearly does though. Read the manual on 12V top ups and you'll see that what I've posted is correct.




I get it, thats your own experience and it worked for you. I wont argue that with you but it doesnt mean its the same for everyone. Maybe you had a dud battery.

What I've posted is my own personal experience too and black_knight has a very specific use case with really short journeys and only two charges per week. That clearly affects the 12V's ability to be re-charged.


We see the very same posts on the forum each year around this time. Thats not a coincidence.


A new battery will certainly help but it wouldnt be my first port of call if it has already been proven/tested that the battery is fine.




12.1V is a really low voltage for the 12V to be at. Thats like 10% or something. You are taking a chance there if thats a regular occurrence for you. Lets see how your winter goes!

Don't the OEM batteries in the ev have a ****e mAh rating for the type of vehicle that it is. Resulting in an early deterioration anyway

ELM327

listermint wrote: »

Don't the OEM batteries in the ev have a ****e mAh rating for the type of vehicle that it is. Resulting in an early deterioration anyway

Yes, if I were buying an Ioniq again the first change I'd make is to replace the 12v for one with a higher Ah rating

KCross

adunis wrote: »

Okay I'm going to make it my mission to find out the actual 12v charging protocol for the EV ,it's going to be difficult cos I don't know any Hyundai mechanics and it is not on any of the commercial diagnostics/databases I have access to.It does appear however on the surface to be as simple as every X hours have a look and too up if necessary.

Its fairly clearly laid out in the manual including what feeds off the 12V and what happens when its plugged in and when its not. Its all there.

Mickeroo wrote: »

So when I've randomly seen the third light flashing while the car is parked up you reckon it's only been checking the 12v rather than actually charging it?

When the 3rd light is blinking on its own it is charging the 12V. It should do that at the end of every charge session. How long it does it for is obviously dependent on how much charge is needed.

listermint wrote: »

Don't the OEM batteries in the ev have a ****e mAh rating for the type of vehicle that it is. Resulting in an early deterioration anyway

Yea, they probably should put a better one in but the primary issue isnt the battery capacity, its a poor charging algorithm. The low capacity battery they have would do fine if they just topped it up enough. They could fix it with a software update and hopefully they will.

adunis

I've just gone to the efforts of getting torque pro and added the BMS bits to it that was a pita
Have found some evidence that
1. Charging threshold is...........11.8v
2. whilst driving 12v check is 20minutes
3.If sat there parked it's 72 hrs

Mickeroo

KCross wrote: »

When the 3rd light is blinking on its own it is charging the 12V. It should do that at the end of every charge session. How long it does it for is obviously dependent on how much charge is needed.

Yeah this is the bit I don't get regarding the message you see when you turn the car on. I've definitely seen the car topping up the 12v while it's been sitting on the driveway (and car hasn't been charged for a couple of days) but I've yet to see the message on start up telling me the 12v has been topped up.

KCross

Snippets from the manual

Battery Information
• The vehicle is composed of a high voltage battery that drives the motor and air-conditioner, and an auxiliary battery (12 V) that drives the lamps, wipers, and audio system.
• The auxiliary battery is automatically charged when the vehicle is in the ready mode or the high voltage battery is being charged.

The AUX battery saver function works as follows:

Mode
• Cycle Mode :
When the vehicle is OFF with all doors, hood and tailgate closed, the Aux. Battery Saver+ activates every 72 hours according to the auxiliary battery status.
• Automatic Mode :
When the vehicle is ON with the charging connector plugged in, the function activates according to the auxiliary battery status to prevent overdischarge of the auxiliary battery.


The Aux. Battery Saver+ activates maximum of 20 minutes.

If the Aux. Battery Saver+ function was activated, a message will be displayed on the instrument cluster and the high voltage battery level may have decreased.

When the function is activating the third Charging Indicator Lamp will blink and high voltage electricity will be flowing in the vehicle.

KCross

adunis wrote: »

I've just gone to the efforts of getting torque pro and added the BMS bits to it that was a pita
Have found some evidence that
1. Charging threshold is...........11.8v
2. whilst driving 12v check is 20minutes
3.If sat there parked it's 72 hrs

I think 1 and 2 are wrong.
The 20mins is how long the "battery saver" function runs for, not how often it checks it when driving. When driving, it should be charging it most of the time like it does in an ICE car.

11.8V seems wrong to me too. 11.8V is as good as a dead battery. If it really is doing that then thats ridiculous from Hyundai. Somehow I doubt thats the threshold they use.

unkel

My usage pattern is similar to Black Night. I only charge the car a few times a week and do a lot of short trips. Not worried about being stuck with a dead battery, as I have all sorts of stuff here at home to get me going if the 12V were unable to start the car, but I would prefer a more permanent solution

Looking into replacing the lead acid battery with a lithium one with the same capacity (so in effect giving it double the usable capacity), but haven't come across a good value one yet. 40Ah * 12V is less than half a kWh, should be able to get it for not an awful lot more than €200, but the ones I have seen are a good bit more. Waiting for a bargain here

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Looking into replacing the lead acid battery with a lithium one with the same capacity (so in effect giving it double the usable capacity)...

Is it a good idea to do that though?

e.g. Lets say your 12V Li-ion is at 100% and you drive to Cork. The car is going to be float charging (or at least trying to) the Li-ion all the way to cork because thats what its programmed to do out of the factory and presumably it has no idea you have swapped to li-ion from lead acid.

I presume there is a BMS built into a 12V Li-ion?
Even if there is, I'd just wonder overall how good an idea it is to swap to li-ion when the cars software is designed for lead acid.

I'd rather the OEM's just fixed their software!

zg3409

KCross wrote: »

I'd rather the OEM's just fixed their software!

With the 0917 software the car definitely checks the 12v battery more often than every 3 days when parked. I typically charge 5 or 6 days a week and rarely charge on Saturday nights. I did not charge Saturday and got the "auxiliary battery was charged" warning on Sunday, so car did not wait 3 days from last being driven. I monitored my 12v battery and when plugged in charging it does charge the 12v, and while driving. If your 12v is not the best and if you have old software and if you only plug the car in rarely, then your 12v will drop over the 3 days since it was last on charge, and then it may fail to start a charge or other weird issues. I changed my 12v but I still get the warning on cold nights when not plugged in, which is possibly a good thing, better than it not working

unkel

KCross wrote: »

I'd rather the OEM's just fixed their software!

Aye, can't argue with that!

adunis

To update further
12v battery charges @13.9v ALL THE TIME when driving .
Resting voltage 12.7v
I'll leave the dongle plugged in for the next 72 hrs see what happens.

adunis

I also would much rather they got it right software that is it would seem charging treashold us just way to low......

unkel

adunis wrote: »

To update further
12v battery charges @13.9v ALL THE TIME when driving .

That's normal, that's what a lead acid battery likes best. Alternators in ICE cars also provide about 14V continuous to lead acid batteries

adunis

I also would much rather they got it right software that is it would seem charging treashold us just way to low......

adunis

I've just gone to the efforts of getting torque pro and added the BMS bits to it that was a pita
Have found some evidence that
1. Charging threshold is...........11.8v
2. whilst driving 12v check is 20minutes
3.If sat there parked it's 72 hrs


O0ooops that explains some confusion
20 seconds not minute's.

unkel

Just checked my battery. Car last charged on Saturday night, only done two small trips yesterday. Battery a touch under 12.0V. That's not good.

adunis

Tune in at 11.8............
Will the battery saver kick in .............

Black_Knight

unkel wrote: »

Give us a review when you're back. Not just about the EV charging situation over there, but about the resort as well. I've been going to Center Parcs for many decades, but haven't been to the new Irish one yet

Charging situation is... Poor in gonna say. Had no idea where the charger was but eventually found them near the back of the car park (zone E1). 7kw/hr chargers with 2 ports X2. 3 ice cars parked in them and I took the 1 and only remaining space. Not sure if that's all the chargers or not. You could park like an ass and block cars and 1 lane of the road. There was/is a leaf opposite me, I'll leave a note about the I need to charge app on my dash if they're stuck.

Charger says to visit Open.podpoint.com and find the charger etc, otherwise charge will end after 15 minutes. Couldn't find the charger on pod point, and I left before 15 minutes. I'll see what is like when I go back to the car in a while.

Black_Knight

unkel wrote: »

Just checked my battery. Car last charged on Saturday night, only done two small trips yesterday. Battery a touch under 12.0V. That's not good.

Checked mine this morning straight after a charge overnight (granted it was idle since like 2am I'd say) and it was at 12v. Twas 12.3 after a bit of driving yesterday.

charlieIRL

Black_Knight wrote: »

Charging situation is... Poor in gonna say. Had no idea where the charger was but eventually found them near the back of the car park (zone E1). 7kw/hr chargers with 2 ports X2. 3 ice cars parked in them and I took the 1 and only remaining space. Not sure if that's all the chargers or not. You could park like an ass and block cars and 1 lane of the road. There was/is a leaf opposite me, I'll leave a note about the I need to charge app on my dash if they're stuck.

Charger says to visit Open.podpoint.com and find the charger etc, otherwise charge will end after 15 minutes. Couldn't find the charger on pod point, and I left before 15 minutes. I'll see what is like when I go back to the car in a while.

Told ya!! Nearly every pic i've seen so far had ICE cars in the EV spots.

Mickeroo

Was the car park wedged or were they just being dicks?

Black_Knight

Mickeroo wrote: »

Was the car park wedged or were they just being dicks?

Hard to tell. Today is checkout day so many could be gone, leaving the car park look half full and these looking like dicks. Just dropped my stuff off at the cabin and all the electric spaces are empty.
I'll see what it's like on checkout day.

Dont be at yourself

I was down in Centre Parcs a few weeks ago. Arrived around 3pm on the Monday, and 2 spots were iced, 2 taken up by PHEVs. Popped down later in the evening and was able to park my car arseways to charge in a freed spot. Called down later to move it again once charged like a good citizen.

Black_Knight

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

I was down in Centre Parcs a few weeks ago. Arrived around 3pm on the Monday, and 2 spots were iced, 2 taken up by PHEVs. Popped down later in the evening and was able to park my car arseways to charge in a freed spot. Called down later to move it again once charged like a good citizen.

Id be more tempted to leave the car in the space with a note or link to "needtocharge" app on the dash. Vacating the space opens it up to icing. Tough call.

I checked out the leaf opposite the chargers, no contact details or anything though.

listermint

KCross wrote: »

Is it a good idea to do that though?

e.g. Lets say your 12V Li-ion is at 100% and you drive to Cork. The car is going to be float charging (or at least trying to) the Li-ion all the way to cork because thats what its programmed to do out of the factory and presumably it has no idea you have swapped to li-ion from lead acid.

I presume there is a BMS built into a 12V Li-ion?
Even if there is, I'd just wonder overall how good an idea it is to swap to li-ion when the cars software is designed for lead acid.

I'd rather the OEM's just fixed their software!

Aye but a vehicle with this much software and gizmos in it with a 40ah battery....

My 2002 M3 had an 80ah battery in it. Obviously I'm aware it has to crank starter but the rest was purely for all the electronics. Feels like Hyundai scrimped with a crap battery. Just enough to cover it rather than something designed for redundancy.

unkel

listermint wrote: »

Feels like Hyundai scrimped with a crap battery. Just enough to cover it rather than something designed for redundancy.

They could have put in a 10Ah battery. As long as it keeps getting topped up all the time from the HV battery there would be no problems. The software really is the problem here, can we have a fix please, Hyundai?

listermint

unkel wrote: »

They could have put in a 10Ah battery. As long as it keeps getting topped up all the time from the HV battery there would be no problems. The software really is the problem here, can we have a fix please, Hyundai?

Ah they couldn't though.

unkel

listermint wrote: »

Ah they couldn't though.

Eh?

All the other known issues with Ioniq have been fixed by recalls and software updates.

Mickeroo

unkel wrote: »

Eh?

All the other known issues with Ioniq have been fixed by recalls and software updates.

They were responding to this bit I'd imagine:

unkel wrote: »

They could have put in a 10Ah battery.

adunis

20 ISH hours later,battery still 12.7v.
Car is after being charged in the interim.
Battery saver is yet to deploy

adunis

44ish hours later 12.6v still no battery saver,dongle appears to draw F.A. power.only 46km done yesterday.

adunis

I've officially given up ,battery still sitting at 12.6 v,battery saver has not been seen ,well past 72 hrs now ............

KCross

adunis wrote: »

I've officially given up ,battery still sitting at 12.6 v,battery saver has not been seen ,well past 72 hrs now ............

I thought you said you dont see the battery saver message anymore since you put in the new battery? Why are you expecting to see it now?

Your battery is obviously getting topped up while charging and driving and thats enough for whatever power was drawn from it. You should only rarely see the battery saver message.

adunis

KCross wrote: »

I thought you said you dont see the battery saver message anymore since you put in the new battery? Why are you expecting to see it now?

Your battery is obviously getting topped up while charging and driving and thats enough for whatever power was drawn from it. You should only rarely see the battery saver message.

I wanted to see if the battery saver would check regardless after 72 hrs ,it doesn't .so as we've established car charges all the time whilst driving no surprises there @14v no surprise it is after all a normal lead acid batteryweve also established it doesn't charge whilst charging the traction battery,or after any set period of time if the battery voltage is healthy.everything I've observed found by way of evidence suggests the charging treashold is actually a ridiculous 11.8v

adunis

As a P.S.
Unkel you still seeing 12v even ?
Black Knight have you made any progress ?

KCross

adunis wrote: »

I wanted to see if the battery saver would check regardless after 72 hrs ,it doesn't .

Im sure it is checking it every 72hrs but finding that its fine and doing nothing, in which case nothing will display on the dash.

adunis wrote: »

weve also established it doesn't charge whilst charging the traction battery,or after any set period of time if the battery voltage is healthy

That would make sense. Like the battery saver feature, it will check the 12V at the end of the charge session and top it up if it needs it. If its not in need of one then it doesnt.

adunis

Yeah so all of the above proves
A)the charging treashold is too low
B)it doesn't check often enough
A or B in isolation fine perhaps workable
A & B in unison =anything less than a near perfect battery is a disaster.

Black_Knight

adunis wrote: »

As a P.S.
Unkel you still seeing 12v even ?
Black Knight have you made any progress ?

Traveling at the moment so not checked. Did a nice 250+km drive the other day. Charged in cashel at e cars (took a second too long to initiate charge, heart skipped a beat). Charged at centre parcs Monday and had been sitting idle since then. Drove about 40km today, I'll try check the battery later on, and then I get back to Cork. Also gonna try the slow chargers from Ecars again.

Must check my schedule charging too

unkel

adunis wrote: »

As a P.S.
Unkel you still seeing 12v even ?

Car last charged on Monday night. Did a 2 * 5km commute today. Plus a 1 * 1km trip and 2 * 3km trips this evening. All with heating and aircon on. Most of the time with wipers and lights on too. With the colder weather that's about as bad as it gets for a 12V battery in any car right?

Measured voltage after my last trip and it was 11.97V, same as last time. That means a close enough to zero charge battery. I guess the battery has almost no work to do compared to the battery in an ICE that has to crank the engine, but still.

I am not majorly worried as I would have several charged 12V batteries lying around and also other cars, jump cables and a lithium phone size charge pack. But still, this clearly is a bug in the HV->12V charging software that Hyundai should fix.

September1

I had to replace tires and went with those https://www.oponeo.ie/details-tyre/nokian-eline-2-205-55-r16-94-w-xl - they seem to provide better traction than Michelin ones from Hyundai. In theory they should also provide better range, but I cannot confirm or deny it for now.

BigAl81

unkel wrote:

But still, this clearly is a bug in the HV->12V charging software that Hyundai should fix.

Is it possible to report that to Hyundai?

adunis

I'm pretty sure Hyundai Know all about it ,ie2 year battery warranty on 12v,bottom line is just bite the bullet and get a battery,tbf it's about the only foible the car seems to have......

Black_Knight

Black_Knight wrote: »

Traveling at the moment so not checked. Did a nice 250+km drive the other day. Charged in cashel at e cars (took a second too long to initiate charge, heart skipped a beat). Charged at centre parcs Monday and had been sitting idle since then. Drove about 40km today, I'll try check the battery later on, and then I get back to Cork. Also gonna try the slow chargers from Ecars again.

Must check my schedule charging too

Scheduled charging is still in memory.

Checked voltage of the 12v battery this morning (no overnight charging) and it was 11.95v or so.
Checked it immediately after a few 100km of driving and it was 12.5v.

In other news, big thumbs up for center parcs. Not sure what it'd be like it peak season, but last week was brilliant, even with the mixed weather. Already eyeing up a return visit. EV charging wise, you might get lucky. The chargers are way down the back of the carpark so they'd not be iced for convenience, but nothing stopping icing. As it turned out, I was the only ev charging there last week, and all bays were unoccupied once the previously weeks holiday makers had vacated.

jusmeig

Folks, the first light on my car is flashing blue, however it's not plugged in. It's almost fully charged too.

Any ideas?

Mickeroo

jusmeig wrote: »

Folks, the first light on my car is flashing blue, however it's not plugged in. It's almost fully charged too.

Any ideas?

It's checking the 12v battery charge level.

unkel

Right, so the car charged twice over the weekend and we also did a few slightly longer motorway trips, so the battery should be fully charged, right? When I checked this morning (after charge and one short school run), it had just 12.07V

I could take it out and charge it externally, but I'd say it's on its last legs...

adunis

+1