Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

stesaurus

The more I hear about the Ioniq's real world range the more it sounds like witchcraft. How is it so much more efficient than a tiny Zoe or even the i3.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

That's rather mad if the Ioniq is that efficient, I highly doubt the Ioniq will reach 250 kms in Summer

Why would you doubt it? All reports from real life are seeming to suggest it.

Only a couple of days ago fresh owner Fiery mutant in here did 170km, half of it motorway @110km/h and had 50km left. Lights on, heater at 23C, cold weather

220km in one of the colder days of Irish winter. Surely 250km or near enough it for a similar trip with plenty of not too slow motorway in Irish summer is feasible?

I think the Journal posted that the average Irish daily trip is 16 Kms or less, probably based on census data ?

I travel 135-140 Kms for my commute, trips beyond that are rare these days but I have to say that the Ioniq with it's faster charging and longer range is getting quiet close to the point where those that do the rare 300 Km trip could very easily live with a 30 min QC and brings me back to my point about ESBN charges for the network, people will rarely use it so charges are not really of much concern, however I always said the PM charge was mad.

grogi

unkel wrote: »

Only a couple of days ago fresh owner Fiery mutant in here did 170km, half of it motorway @110km/h and had 50km left. Lights on, heater at 23C, cold weather

Let's agree on one - Ireland does not have cold weather. What Irish call cold and panic about is mild winter at best...

Villain

grogi wrote: »

Let's agree on one - Ireland does not have cold weather. What Irish call cold and panic about is mild winter at best...

Well compared to what? Our climate is not cold but not mild either, our average annual temperature is about 9 °C

I should say it is often cold enough to reduce pefrormance in an EV battery but rarely warm enough to reduce performance.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Why would you doubt it? All reports from real life are seeming to suggest it.

Only a couple of days ago fresh owner Fiery mutant in here did 170km, half of it motorway @110km/h and had 50km left. Lights on, heater at 23C, cold weather

220km in one of the colder days of Irish winter. Surely 250km or near enough it for a similar trip with plenty of not too slow motorway in Irish summer is feasible?

I guess I'll find out myself when I take it for a test drive in about 2 weeks,

I'll head up the old N9 to Kilcullen, join the M9 onto the M7 , N7, M50 N11, M11, into Wicklow town 124 Kms then into Arklow and back, 194 Kms.

There is CCS at Wicklow Town so I might have to charge there for a few mins. It's a shame there are no chargers west of the N11 in Wicklow !

To be honest I'm more interested in the efficiency in Kwh/100Kms.

The Leaf would get about 18-19 Kwh/100 Kms. I plan on doing it at 100-100 Kph. Arklow back home will be 60-90-100 Kph road, but will still give me a good idea.

aliveandkicking

Villain wrote: »

69 Ioniq sold in January based on latest figures.

From FB group: 168 EVs sold. This is in progress so yay! 95 Leaf, 69 Ioniq, 2 Zoés, 1 Egolf and 1 i3. Also note 47 PHEVs and only 29 Hybrid Ioniqs.

Do those figures include people who have signed on the dotted line but haven't received their cars yet (like unkel here) or just actual deliveries in January?

I'm actually amazed the Leaf outsold the Ioniq in January. I don't understand why anyone buying an EV today would choose a Leaf over an Ioniq.

zilog_jones

Figures are new registrations in January, from here: www.beepbeep.ie/stats/

The Leaf is a known quantity, and a smaller car for people who don't want/need something bigger. Still makes a lot of sense as a second car where range is not so important.

Probably because the Leaf is well established and proved itself. But yeah, I wouldn't buy one myself if I were in the market for an EV.

Or, perhaps the leaf mid spec can be got cheaper, most people might be happy with the range of the leaf or perhaps decided to buy before the Ioniq hit the road.

The Leaf is my main car it's not the 2nd car by any means and it does the most mileage. Even having 120 odd kms range at 100 Kph.

It would be nice to have the range though when I need it without having to charge, or a battery than can charge in a quarter of the time would suit me either.

bk

listermint wrote: »

Tbh I think you lads are outside the norm most people don't make those trips once a year if ever.

And those that do would have a second family car to such purpose.

If that is the case, why aren't people buying EV's like the Leaf so already? Because they already have more then enough range to do the Irish average daily commute of 17km

Yet EV's make up just 0.5% of car sales!

No the reality is most people do do at least one, if not a few, medium distance trips a year, weekends away in Galway, etc. Visit the granny, etc.

Even if they don't do it, they still want the capability of doing it. After all their crappy Diesel can already do it, why should they compromise?

The reality is when you tell most people that the real world range of the Leaf is about 100 miles, they burst out laughing at you and tell you there is no way their paying 25k for a car that can't go more then a 100 miles. You can tell them all you want about average daily commutes, but you can already see their eyes glaze over as they have lost all interest.

I could be wrong, but I do think that when you can tell them that you can easily do 200 miles and almost a full charge in 20 minutes, I think they will be a lot more interested.

s.welstead wrote: »

The more I hear about the Ioniq's real world range the more it sounds like witchcraft. How is it so much more efficient than a tiny Zoe or even the i3.

Mostly aerodynamics. The Leaf, Zoe and i3 are all relatively upright, boxy cars, with pretty terrible aerodynamics, which is obviously bad for EV's

You have to wonder why they would choose to do that? It almost feels like they are traditional car makers who aren't really interested in making a real competitive and successful EV that god help them might actually outsell their more profitable Diesel cars!

Tesla takes a completely different approach, sleek, sporty and aerodynamic cars that result in low drag and thus much greater battery efficiency.

You are also seeing a bit of this From Hyundai with the Ioniq, but they also made other different trade offs that damage it's potential to be a great EV.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

Probably because the Leaf is well established and proved itself. But yeah, I wouldn't buy one myself if I were in the market for an EV.

Or, perhaps the leaf mid spec can be got cheaper, most people might be happy with the range of the leaf or perhaps decided to buy before the Ioniq hit the road.

All of that I'd say. Let's not forget base Leaf with 6.6kW and metallic paint is €20k, Ioniq with 7.2kW and metallic paint is over €25k on the road.

unkel

bk wrote: »

Mostly aerodynamics.

Indeed. With only 30kWh on board vs 300kWh equivalent for your average small family petrol or diesel ICE, the EV will do ok in low speed city traffic where they will win back a lot of juice from regen. High speed is the devil and only if you have superior aerodynamics do you stand a chance of high range with such a small battery

bk wrote: »

The Leaf, Zoe and i3 are all relatively upright, boxy cars, with pretty terrible aerodynamics, which is obviously bad for EV's

You have to wonder why they would choose to do that?

Yeah I wonder about that too. Do none of them understand the basics of EV vs ICE?

Just saw some specs of the GM EV1 ('96) the other day and I was gobsmacked. Range, power, top speed and acceleration are all better than todays budget EVs. Cd was 0.19 - that's the lowest of any production car, ever. ('10 Leaf has 0.32, '16 Ioniq has 0.24). It's even better than the 1930s Tatras

KCross

unkel wrote: »

All of that I'd say. Let's not forget base Leaf with 6.6kW and metallic paint is €20k, Ioniq with 7.2kW and metallic paint is over €25k on the road.

Are you referring to SV or XE with scrappage?
You confuse with your base prices!

I think you should clarify the 4k scrappage is included when you say base price. The scrappage is a deal that can come and go and not everyone is going to go to the bother of buying a cheap car to avail of that deal(mad you might say but nevertheless!)... particularly those that have a car worth more than 4k already and want to trade it.

I really believe an ICE traded for an EV should be scrapped and not allowed back on the road particularly Diesels.

Wouldn't it be good if the Government offered 4 K scrappage on top of grant and VRT relief , the French Government did this for 10 yer old diesels and older and it was a huge success if I remember correctly.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

I really believe an ICE traded for an EV should be scrapped and not allowed back on the road particularly Diesels.

Wouldn't it be good if the Government offered 4 K scrappage on top of grant and VRT relief , the French Government did this for 10 yer old diesels and older and it was a huge success if I remember correctly.

The dealers would just stop offering theirs and take the 4k for themselves.
The government are already giving effectively 10k off. I dont think we should use more tax payers money to line dealers or manufacturers pockets. The government need other incentives (parking, tolls and that kind of thing).

bk

unkel wrote: »

Just saw some specs of the GM EV1 ('96) the other day and I was gobsmacked. Range, power, top speed and acceleration are all better than todays budget EVs. Cd was 0.19 - that's the lowest of any production car, ever. ('10 Leaf has 0.32, '16 Ioniq has 0.24). It's even better than the 1930s Tatras

Yup and the Model 3 is supposed to be 0.21, which will make it the lowest made today and arguably the lowest mass production car ever.

Which is pretty impressive when you consider that the EV1 was a two seater only, where as the Model 3 is a pretty regular 5 seater and has to meet modern safety standards (ads a lot of extra weight).

But it does go to show how far ahead the EV1 was and can you only imagine how much more widespread EV's would be today had the EV1 not been prematurely aborted.

BTW it is this low Cd of the model 3 which makes me think that they might get away with just a 45kWh battery on the entry level model and still meet 215 miles EPA range, based on the performance we are seeing from the 0.24 Ioniq.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

You confuse with your base prices!

And here I was thinking I couldn't be more straight forard €20k Leaf, €25k Ioniq. Both with fast charger and metallic paint, cash, on the road.

Yes base Leaf (XE) with the 24kWh battery on the road cash price with 6.6kW and metallic paint is €20k (Easily negotiated last year - no reason why it would be any different now)

As for the Ioniq, I've mentioned several times that most dealers don't care what car you scrap, so you can bring in a €50 car and get the €4,000 scrappage. Obviously if you have a car already, you'd do better to sell it yourself. Nothing new there. Scrappage was supposed to be officially finished yesterday. Several dealers threatened me that if you didn't order the car and have your deposit paid by 31/01/2017, that would be the end of the scrappage deal. Yeah right

josip

listermint wrote: »

Tbh I think you lads are outside the norm most people don't make those trips once a year if ever.

And those that do would have a second family car to such purpose.

The gen population isn't driving between coasts regularly.

Ahem.
Not one of "the lads", mad or otherwise.
1 family car.
Dublin to Greece return annually.
We are aware of others...

unkel

Haha, just visited Hyundai.ie

No surprises that the scrappage now finishes at 28/02/2017. Anyone wanna bet what it says next month? :pac:

KCross

unkel wrote: »

And here I was thinking I couldn't be more straight forard €20k Leaf, €25k Ioniq. Both with fast charger and metallic paint, cash, on the road.

Yes base Leaf (XE) with the 24kWh battery on the road cash price with 6.6kW and metallic paint is €20k (Easily negotiated last year - no reason why it would be any different now)

As for the Ioniq, I've mentioned several times that most dealers don't care what car you scrap, so you can bring in a €50 car and get the €4,000 scrappage. Obviously if you have a car already, you'd do better to sell it yourself. Nothing new there. Scrappage was supposed to be officially finished yesterday. Several dealers threatened me that if you didn't order the car and have your deposit paid by 31/01/2017, that would be the end of the scrappage deal. Yeah right

I guess where Im coming from is transparency. Its not clear in your "base price" posts that scrappage is already deducted. For someone visiting the forum and thinking of buying its misleading. And anyone buying the XE would want their head examined!

Not everyone wants the hassle of privately selling and dealing with tyre kickers, buying a €100 car and then going to a dealer. Most just want to hand in the €10k car and get the keys of the new one!



Nissan are doing the same thing as Hyundai with the scrappage.... its forever being extended. :rolleyes:

unkel

But you can't cater for people trading in their car when one wants to compare prices. I still feel the fairest most transparent comparison is a cash deal anyone can get without trade in after negotiation, for the car including all charges on the road. The way things stand there's only €5k between Leaf and Ionic, not the €7k difference in RRP of the cheapest model before extras and delivery charges (€21.5k vs €28.5k)

KCross

unkel wrote: »

But you can't cater for people trading in their car when one wants to compare prices. I still feel the fairest most transparent comparison is a cash deal anyone can get without trade in after negotiation, for the car including all charges on the road. The way things stand there's only €5k between Leaf and Ionic, not the €7k difference in RRP of the cheapest model before extras and delivery charges (€21.5k vs €28.5k)

The XE is nowhere near the level spec of an Ioniq so thats not a fair comparison to start with. You might as well give the price of a G-Wiz!

All Im saying is that you could be clearer about where you got your figures from(that its the XE and you have already deducted scrappage). For new visitors thinking of EV, which happens here all the time, its more transparent.

zilog_jones

bk wrote: »

But it does go to show how far ahead the EV1 was and can you only imagine how much more widespread EV's would be today had the EV1 not been prematurely aborted.

Not just aborting the EV1, but the nefarious bullshít surrounding it such as the control over large Ni-MH battery patents set back EV development for a good decade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_automotive_NiMH_batteries

I'm concerned we may see further setbacks with Trump now in power, as the US EPA and CARB have been some of the biggest drivers for development of hybrids and EVs.

bk

zilog_jones wrote: »

I'm concerned we may see further setbacks with Trump now in power, as the US EPA and CARB have been some of the biggest drivers for development of hybrids and EVs.

I'm certain we will see some setbacks from Trump. However I don't think they will be anything like the EV1, it has already gone way beyond that.

Sure I'm sure they will take the pressure of the various US manufacturers by loosening up on regulated emissions targets. But he can't ignore Tesla and the half a million pre-orders of the model 3 and Elon Musk is an advisor to him.

And the Asian manufacturers, in particular the Chinese don't give a damn about what Trump does. They are going for EV's full throttle, knowing that they will profit from it greatly as they already lead in the manufacturing of batteries, electric motors and electronic control systems and this EV revolution gives them a chance to leap frog the US and EU manufactures with their Diesel and Petrol engines where they find it hard to compete and break into the market. EV's is a golden opportunity for them to get a lead on the next 50 years of motoring.

Then you have California who sets their own, much stricter emission standards. They are such a large market, that it forces all manufactures to follow their lead anyway.

So, yes, I do expect some bad news, but I think there is already too much market force behind this to stop it, just slow it down.

BTW The story is much the same with solar, wind and even natural gas versus coal. Trump isn't going to be able to deliver on his promise to bring back coal jobs, because the simple economics are already strongly in favour of solar, wind and natural gas.

positron

bk wrote: »

If that is the case, why aren't people buying EV's like the Leaf so already? Because they already have more then enough range to do the Irish average daily commute of 17km

Yet EV's make up just 0.5% of car sales!

I am totally sold on EVs and have been since Leaf & Tesla started making news. I am currertly driving a banger and Mrs P is throwing all sorts of hints about how much she loves the Ioniq and she has already rang around a number of places looking to get an extended test ride... and yet I am reluctant purely because like with all new emerging technologies, there will be rapid changes in EV technology and choices in next 5 years, so I am a bit worried that I would have spend all my savings on what I could have had otherwise. For example, we were really considering Leaf last year, we even tried one, did all the math etc - but didn't pull the trigger, and now with Ioniq out that was clearly a good decision.

That's not all - there just isn't enough choice either. Sure we have Ioniq and Leaf, but there's no EV estate, no EV 6/7 seater. Tesla Gigafactory is not fully online and battery prices probably have more to fall in next year or so. Most current EV cars are going to be refreshed with bigger battery packs... With all this, it's not hard to see why EV market share is still limited. But the mass adoption is only around the corner - my magic ball says at least half of all new car sales will be electric by 2020.

unkel

positron wrote: »

But the mass adoption is only around the corner

And with the start of mass adoption, all subsidies will disappear. I know exactly where you're coming from, I looked into the Leaf seriously too last year, but it wasn't quite there for me. The Ioniq is now. I'm also well aware that another big step up from the Ioniq could be only a year away, but I decided that while the subsidy bandwagon is here, I might as well jump on it before it disappears around the corner

bk

positron wrote: »

my magic ball says at least half of all new car sales will be electric by 2020.

I wish, I certainly think the tech and range will be there to support the mass market, but I don't think the general public will be ready for it in those numbers yet. I think it will still be in the early adopter stage in 2020, maybe around 10% of sales. Those early adopters will show them off to their more mainstream friends and maybe convince them too. But I think we are looking more 2025 for 50% take up.

unkel wrote: »

And with the start of mass adoption, all subsidies will disappear. I know exactly where you're coming from, I looked into the Leaf seriously too last year, but it wasn't quite there for me. The Ioniq is now. I'm also well aware that another big step up from the Ioniq could be only a year away, but I decided that while the subsidy bandwagon is here, I might as well jump on it before it disappears around the corner

I think you are a little over-optimistic. I say we are still many years from mass take up and thus subsidies aren't going anywhere for a while yet. I suspect they will still be around when 200 mile+ EV's hit in 2018/9.

When it does go mass market and the subsidies removed, it won't matter anyway as mass market take up will drive down battery prices and make the subsidy unnecessary anyway.

Elon Musk has said as much for subsidies in the US. I'm sure he knows better then any of us.

unkel

Mass take up can be hugely and rapidly influenced by fiscal and other measures. Remember the slightly cheaper motor tax based on CO2 in mid 2008? Nearly every single new car since that day was a diesel. Petrol buying was halted overnight.

If the government decided today that diesel private cars would be banned from inside the M50 and petrols would have to pay €20 per day, and on top of that all ICE would pay €2,350 motor tax per year all of this from 01/01/2019, see how fast things would change. Even if in the same announcement, all EV subsidies would be scrapped per 2019. There would be hundreds of thousands of EV sold and about a million ICE cars exported to Africa within the year

One thing I never understood is why motor tax on EV is not free. Would cost the government 2000 cars * €120 = just a quarter of a million euro per year (literally a drop in a lake) and the impact of that supercheap measurement in Ireland (where the people are extremely motor tax averse for some reason) would be very noticeable.

slave1

unkel wrote: »

One thing I never understood is why motor tax on EV is not free. Would cost the government 2000 cars * €120 = just a quarter of a million euro per year (literally a drop in a lake) and the impact of that supercheap measurement in Ireland (where the people are extremely motor tax averse for some reason) would be very noticeable.

Given the system is based on emissions it does not make sense, it will only be reduced/eliminated through a lobby group

bk

unkel, everything you said above is true, but it will unfortunately never happen

You see reducing the motor tax on Diesel was an easy and extremely popular move for the government. Increasing taxes on Diesel or banning them from inside the M50 or anything like that would be extremely unpopular and thus the government will not do it, certainly not overnight and so drastically.

A reminder that ironically it was the Green Party in government who introduced these changes that made dirty Diesels so popular!

who_ru

For me one of the bigger factors in not buying a BEV, apart from price, is the charging infrastructure in Ireland.

Not always reliable, not enough charge points, slow chargers etc make the BEV a less attractive proposition. Hogging of charge points being another minus.

I don't think this will change in the near future. Ok you will probably have a home charge point but you will still depend on public charge points for longer trips.

Fiery mutant

I think unfortunately we don't have the type of politicians we need to be able to make big decisions, or unpopular decisions, to help the country become the type of leaders we could be. They should be preaching from the rooftops about the benefits of EV and putting in the infrastructure so when the better batteries and better ranges come in, that people would have no hesitation in making the switch.

One of the things I'm enjoying most, is the craic chatting with people you've never met while sitting waiting for our cars to charge.

cros13

We're going to be paying €170 million euro in fines this year for missing our emissions targets. Making us one of only two countries in the EU 28 to miss the targets.

Total fines to 2030 could be more than €8 BILLION euro taken from general taxation. That's money not going to schools and hospitals. The government hasn't lifted a finger, €1 million in the budget for EV grants and VRT credits.

On the basis of WEM projections for 2020 we will not only miss our target of a 30% cut in emissions (from 2005 levels), we'll increase emissions by 1%.

I did a little playing around with the figures. To meet our emissions targets the government would need to ban sales of any light vehicles except BEVs and PHEVs from next month, deploy at least 1GW of additional wind or 500MW of solar + 100MWh of grid-scale storage and cut agricultural emissions by 5-10%. Every month they fail to take action, the needed cuts get more severe.

Anyway... spoke to one of the lads from Fitzpatricks in Naas today. He was at the rapid in Monread with an Ioniq, quote "I've sold three of them this month so I thought I'd better learn something about them".

positron

unkel wrote: »

And with the start of mass adoption, all subsidies will disappear.

You are right alright. Hmm, I hadn't thought of that. Actually perhaps the subsidy will remain and manufacturers will absorb it into their profits and bump up the prices (perhaps to compensate for all the trillions they are going to lose on the ICE side) similar to how bike prices went north since bike2work was introduced.

Speaking of bike2work, I wish Government would do a 'EV to work' program - before tax and all that jazz.. Supporting the working class while saving the planet! :cool:

bk

bk wrote: »

Sure I'm sure they will take the pressure of the various US manufacturers by loosening up on regulated emissions targets. But he can't ignore Tesla and the half a million pre-orders of the model 3 and Elon Musk is an advisor to him.

And General Motors CEO Mary Barra is on his economic and job-creation panel.

I wonder who'd have more clout, Musk or Barra ?

I'm sure Trump won't give a toss about electric cars one way or the other as long as it creates American jobs.

peposhi

Deleted User wrote: »

That's rather mad if the Iohniq is that efficient, I highly doubt the Ioniq will reach 250 kms in Summer though at even 100 Kph.

I really want to test drive it now.

Mad_Lad, you MUST do the test drive! And take it for 24h! You will love it!
(would not be surprised if you buy it :rolleyes:)

Na I'm definitely not buying it, for starters , I do not like when Hyundai Ireland (or any other) decide for us what spec we should and should not have, that irritates the Fcuk our of me !!!

That's one thing, the other is that I am waiting to see what Nissan come up with, I am interested to see their automated driving or whatever version they will have. Also whether it has much more range.

Will definitely take it one day on my week off shift , can't wait.

Oh I suppose the other reason is my lease is up in 2018. I think I'd be mad to change now anyway.

unkel

Yeah it would be mad to break your lease. That's one of the bad points about PCP, you completely lose all flexibility. It's a personal thing, but I'd rather drive a banger for 3 or 4 years, save enough money to buy a new car with cash and form then on, just keep buying new cars with cash and spending less per month than you would in the same car on PCP. Forever. With your flexibility intact.

I went on PCP because the monthly payments were a lot less than regular finance, and because I did not intend to keep the Leaf.

With fuel savings , maintenance and having work charging and some free public charging it isn't big money to drive the highest spec Leaf. And if the car is worth 5 K at the end I couldn't care less, not my problem. Indeed I might not have a lot to go towards the next car with a 12,500 GFMV but I did not get PCP thinking I would.

GFMV seems to be much lower now and might not make PCP worth it and maybe that's the idea, to steer people away from PCP into regular finance and let the owner take all the risk, but with a GFMV so low now the buyer is taking most of the risk anyway , you're left with 5 K balloon but you're paying a lot more PM so you're paying for most of the car at that stage and that's not the idea of PCP the idea is to keep you coming back and payy as little as possible by paying only for the mileage you use , so my guess is Nissan are deliberately trying to kill PCP or Irish dealers in general. I don't really know how PCP is fairing for other brands/ models.

However, the plus is that you will most definitely see a good bit more back at the end because there's no way a 3 year old leaf will be worth as little as 5,500 Euro's after 3 years even with 90,000-100,000 kms. Yes I could be wrong but judging by todays prices it would be highly unlikely.

Water John

Hope any of you were not waiting for an Ioniq up on these loads. Posted on a farming thread.

OH was on red cow interchange at 6am this morning, there were 2 loaded artic car transporters racing each other Oh pulled over and let them at it, one of them stalled in the middle of the road, so so dangerous. Imagine the value of the cars on the 2 transporters to be at that messing

peposhi

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh I suppose the other reason is my lease is up in 2018. I think I'd be mad to change now anyway.

Well, you seen the offer I got. Yours would not be much different even though you got an SVE.
My hands are still itchy and my heart says - go and get it... But my brain (my Other Half) says figures are not right for us lol...
So, we shall see...
Did 200km in the Leaf today. Luckily a hotel by the trade show I went to has own SCP so I parked and charged the car while doing my stuff. I did not need to go to FCP on the way back. With the Iq it would have been a straight forward trip with no need of any CPs.

Oh yes higher spec isn't worth a lot at the end of the day just easier to sell.

My heart and head says no because I can wait to see what the next year brings, if Leaf II is coming for 2018 it should be announced by September, October. And maybe by then Hyundai will have more electrics or more range spec in the Ioniq.

unkel

There's no doubt that the longer you wait in this EV game, the better car you're going to get. If you're going to wait that long (buying sometime in 2018), would you not aim for a Model 3 though instead of Ioniq / Leaf 2? It will be a lot more expensive, but it will also be a car that's a serious level up foremost in terms of range, but probably also in prestige / quality

KCross

unkel wrote: »

There's no doubt that the longer you wait in this EV game, the better car you're going to get. If you're going to wait that long (buying sometime in 2018), would you not aim for a Model 3 though instead of Ioniq / Leaf 2? It will be a lot more expensive, but it will also be a car that's a serious level up foremost in terms of range, but probably also in prestige / quality

Unless you have a deposit already down from round 1 you won't get a model 3 until 2020+

unkel

Really? The Tesla website says "Production begins mid 2017.
Delivery estimate for new reservations is mid 2018 or later."

Villain

unkel wrote: »

Yeah it would be mad to break your lease. That's one of the bad points about PCP, you completely lose all flexibility. It's a personal thing, but I'd rather drive a banger for 3 or 4 years, save enough money to buy a new car with cash and form then on, just keep buying new cars with cash and spending less per month than you would in the same car on PCP. Forever. With your flexibility intact.

Actually the half rule can be a good choice, depends on your situation but it isn't always mad to break the PCP deal

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Really? The Tesla website says "Production begins mid 2017.
Delivery estimate for new reservations is mid 2018 or later."

They have 500k deposits and no car yet produced. Not a chance they will build all those by 2019. Tesla consistently under delivers on its orders.

bk

unkel wrote: »

Really? The Tesla website says "Production begins mid 2017.
Delivery estimate for new reservations is mid 2018 or later."

Over 400,000 pre-orders by now. I really don't see them being able to build 400,000 cars in 18 months! I'd love to be proven wrong, but I doubt it.