Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

grogi

grogi wrote: »

Could, of course... Do you want to keep it for another three years?

I'd probably keep it until January because I can't loose any more than the GFMV and if it's worth less it's Nissan's problem but they made sure they will not be stung again with a 5,500 GFMV so I got PCP at the right time, good decision.

If I bought on Finance I could face a few K more depreciation.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes in the U.K but we're not in the U.K

Well, yes we might as well be in the UK when it comes to importing EVs

There's zero VRT and zero VAT, so it only costs you the flight and the ferry. And we all know in here that the people not interested in doing that themselves are catered for by a few crowds getting the cars in for them. For a fee.

There is superb value in getting a '16 30kWh from the UK because of huge first year depreciation over there. And that's unfortunately what you're up against. Maybe you should hope & pray for a speedy and ultra hard brexit to help you out here

Soarer

Deleted User wrote: »

12.5 k offered for my Leaf hahahahahaha lmao

Deleted User wrote: »

Why would I pay 12.5 K balloon if the car is worth 10-11 K ?

I don't get your thinking.

On the one hand you think it's hilarious that they only offered you €12,500 for your car.
But on the other hand, you question why, next year, would you pay €12,500 for a car that's only worth €10-€11k?

If your car is only worth €10k next year, I think €12.5k is a very reasonable trade in this year.

Oh , I'm only guessing, my point being if it's worth less than the GFMV then it;s not my problem as such, at worst , I have no deposit, or rather, no equity in the car.

Based on today's PCP deals and GFMV I would not get a Leaf today on PCP, I'd pay it over 3 years and get the lowest interest loan.

By the way, what are Hyundai offering on PCP for the Ioniq ?

unkel

Did you not ask? Did you just ask them how much they'd give you for the Leaf? Not ask what the cost to change was all-in, on the road?

You'll only ever get a good deal from a car dealer if they know you are ready to do the deal, ready to sign / up pay a deposit and if you have a fair idea how far you can push them.

Na they didn't show any interest in selling me the car. I told them I'd be interested if the deal was good.

He said he'll give me a call when another garage gets back to me (gets back to him I meant to say not me) but I expect not to hear from them again.

unkel

Unbelievable stuff. Back to 2005 when car salesmen in main dealers were just taking orders. Have they not learnt their lesson?

I have to say my experience with Hyundai dealers was mixed bag. I approached all of them (about 30 or so iirc) with a concise email. About a third or so never replied. Some replied a day or two later (email clearly said I intended to buy that day or the next), several of them rang within the hour and some were keen on the business, straight talking and ready to do me a very good deal. Plenty of old skool wafflers too. Took 9 hours from the first email until I paid the deposit on the car.

Yeah , I did tell them that they didn't seem to interested in selling it that I bet if someone walked in looking at it that they would steer them towards a nice diesel I30 instead, they weren't impressed but I don't really care because I am a potential customer and they need to sell the car.

And I said to the sales man that they don't really want to sell the Ioniq because it's extra work explaining all the tech that they don't have to do with petrol or diesel and here I am knowing all about it , probably the easiest sale they could have and they let me walk right out the door !

Profits must be tight and commission not so much ?

They're certainly no Paul from Barlo Nissan in Kilkenny that's for sure, an exceptional salesman who did his utmost to sell the car, so much that I'd nearly have just bought it to give him the commission for all his work even if not intending to buy it lol !

There's a lot of lazy car sales people , door to door people work so much harder and do longer hours for a **** less money ( most of the time) and a lot of the time have no base salary !

Their base salaries are too high !

bk

Deleted User wrote: »

Based on today's PCP deals and GFMV I would not get a Leaf today on PCP, I'd pay it over 3 years and get the lowest interest loan.

Well according to the Nissan site, they offer 4% on PCP, 11% Hire Purchase and the best rate you'd get from a bank is 8%

So if you planned on pay over 3 years, I don't see why you wouldn't go PCP, it is clearly the best deal. Just also save the extra each money needed for the final GMFV payment.

Deleted User wrote: »

By the way, what are Hyundai offering on PCP for the Ioniq ?

The calculator on their website isn't very clear, but it seems to be 4% too.

The Idea of PCP is to pay as little PM and as little total for the car over 3 years and with the GFMV today at 5,500 that means that it becomes a cheap HP because you're paying much more per month than you should on PCP but on the Plus you're probably guaranteed several grand more value in the car, Nissan have ensured they won't get stung with mad depreciation but they have taken it way to far.

So basically Nissan have turned their PCP into a HP because you are really paying the majority of the car over the 3 years.

With a GFMV of 5,500 , people are going to be much more tempted to pay the 5,500 to own the car rather than I paying 12,500 for instance, makes me think twice.

I was kind of surprised that Michael Lyng Motors in Carlow didn't ask if I were interested to see their PCP offers.

bk

Deleted User wrote: »

So basically Nissan have turned their PCP into a HP because you are really paying the majority of the car over the 3 years.

Sure, but it is a really good deal. 4% over the three years, rather then 11% HP or 8% from a bank. On a 30k car loan, you would save €3472 in interest versus their HP and almost €2k versus a bank!

The whole paying less monthly and being able to upgrade after three years was largely a bs marketing trick that should largely be ignored. But it doesn't mean a PCP can't be a good value if you use it in the right way.

Ok, it's good deal if you intend to buy the car, and chances are the car will be worth a lot more. There's now way it will be worth as little as 5,500 K in 3 years , not even at my current 30,000 Kms a year !

grogi

Deleted User wrote: »

The Idea of PCP is to pay as little PM and as little total for the car over 3 years and with the GFMV today at 5,500 that means that it becomes a cheap HP because you're paying much more per month than you should on PCP but on the Plus you're probably guaranteed several grand more value in the car, Nissan have ensured they won't get stung with mad depreciation but they have taken it way to far.

So basically Nissan have turned their PCP into a HP because you are really paying the majority of the car over the 3 years.

With a GFMV of 5,500 , people are going to be much more tempted to pay the 5,500 to own the car rather than I paying 12,500 for instance, makes me think twice.

What exactly is wrong with conservative approach to borrowing money?

Nothing if your objective is to pay off the whole loan as cheap as possible.

My idea at the time was to pay as little as possible PM because I didn't want to own the Leaf.

positron

Sorry to go off topic, but what's the legality of manufacturer selling cars directly to customers here in Ireland? Any issues like some of the US states and car dealer lobbying for exclusive right to sell cars?

My own experience with car dealers (the handful of times I spoke to them, or they chose to speak to me after I wandered around the shops long enough) has not been that impressive. Wouldn't mind having the option to buy online.

unkel

positron wrote: »

Wouldn't mind having the option to buy online.

You wouldn't get a discount though.

What I did is probably the closest you can get to buying online but still being able to negotiate a discount: mass email looking for best price (not discussing anything about the car at all), email and phone conversations same day and doing deal over the phone once you've established who can give you the very best deal, paying deposit over the phone.

cros13

positron wrote: »

Sorry to go off topic, but what's the legality of manufacturer selling cars directly to customers here in Ireland? Any issues like some of the US states and car dealer lobbying for exclusive right to sell cars?

My own experience with car dealers (the handful of times I spoke to them, or they chose to speak to me after I wandered around the shops long enough) has not been that impressive. Wouldn't mind having the option to buy online.

It's legal, but many of the systems in place are not setup to deal with it.
Tesla for example had to register themselves as a SIMI dealer to get access to certain thing like the SEAI grants.

When I got the i3, the purchase was from BMW Ireland directly with the "agent" being the dealer and receiving a fixed fee.

EV_Questino

Is it possible it get different colour accents on the white Electric version? Not the biggest fan of the copper colour.

cros13

EV_Questino wrote: »

Is it possible it get different colour accents on the white Electric version? Not the biggest fan of the copper colour.

As I understand it they are model specific. I'm not a fan of the copper personally either.

I drove to work tonight in my 24 Kwh Leaf and averaged 20 Kwh/100 kms , it was quiet cold at 2-3 Deg C, I didn't pre- heat off the mains. 100-110 Kph all of 61 Kms to the work turn off that I averaged 16.5 in the Ioniq.

Weather conditions were Dry cold and breezy, no pre heating for the Leaf

Wet roads, light rain, breezy 10 Deg C, no pre-heating the Ioniq

So after 61 Kms I had 35% battery left in my 24 Kwh Leaf with 20.1 usable according to leaf spy tonight (cold battery and not been driven much in a week) Usable V 65% in the Ioniq with 28 Kwh (usable ) ?

It would be great to get a comparison with the 30 Kwh Leaf but I think the efficiency figures speak for themselves. How the Ioniq would have done tonight is anyone's guess but I think the weather conditions would have balanced out.

A leaf spy equivalent for the Ioniq would be great because then you can directly compare the exact Kwh used per trip something sadly neither car offers, just a useless average of energy consumption.

So I reckon the Ioniq has "around" a 21.2 % efficiency advantage over the Leaf.

Oh BTW Michael Lyng were offering me 12K for my 151 SVE with 6.6 Kw charger and 66,500 odd kms balance on PCP is 15,4650.

So it would not make sense to change and I wouldn't bother now because it would not make sense to pay the balance of 3,500 you could say to clear the loan when next year i'll have to pay 0, I'll just hand the car back and get another one whatever is around then at a good price and perhaps a 2nd hand U.K premium spec Ioniq.

Even if I were to break even now I'd still have 0 deposit and that wasn't the reason for going via PCP anyway so I'd rather have no deposit next year than have no deposit this year with the possibility of having to actually pay a few grand to clear the loan + I'r rather wait and see what's around.

Dealers are really taking the P**S by offering far less than the leaf's actual worth because they do not want anything to do with electric cars because there is too little money to be made on ripping people off for maintenance and it's already proven that certain Nissan dealers are ripping off Leaf owners by making them come back for "service" every 15,0900 Kms or 1 year instead of 30,0900 Kms and one year it's an absolute disgrace.

unkel

That's 21% better efficiency based on your findings* and 25% bigger usuable battery, so about 50% more range

Obviously at higher speeds, the difference would increase exponentially because of the better aerodynamics that barely come into play at 100km/h

*your findings are very similar to a table published a few days ago that lists the efficiency of most EV. Most efficient the Ioniq, next i3 with 9% less, Leaf with 18% less, model S 32% less

Yeah I reckon 170 Kms at 100-110 Kph in the Ioniq, not quiet the 200 Kms people were talking about but still not bad at those speeds and conditions.

Better warmer weather might squeeze another 10 Kms.

By the time I got to Wicklow Town , 115 Kms total Efficiency was at 15.3 Kwh/100 kms probably due to improved weather and dry roads. After 115 Kms I had 37% battery left which makes 170 odd kms plausible but I do wounder how many % is hidden like in the Leaf ? the leaf hided about 7% below about 35%.

But I would say in the Ioniq be close to a charge point by 160 Kms at 110 Kph and plugged in by 170.

Shame they didn't install a 40 Kwh battery, one could expect 242 - 261 Kms but perhaps more at slower speeds and warmer weather.

One thing I noticed about the Ioniq is that it allowed the cabin to cool too much to the point I felt uncomfortable and I could see the heater hitting 3 Kw regularly this can't help efficiency. Once the Leaf is pre heated you would hardly see more than a few moments at 1 Kw and mainly 400-800 watts at the same 10 Deg C. The h eater was set to normal, not Eco. Perhaps a future Firmware update might cure that but I wasn't impressed with the heating, it's plenty warm when it's actually blowing out warm air so the heater is up to the job. When you allow the cabin to cool it takes more energy to heat it back up again than to maintain a constant temp.

I don't know how that person on Facebook managed 12 Kwh / 100 kms, probably driving 60-80 Kph and coasting a lot which you probably could achieve on roads in the West.

The major advantage of the Ioniq is the fast charging !

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

The major advantage of the Ioniq is the fast charging !

Most people rarely need fast charging. The 70kWh charging is nice for top trumps / bragging rights but it means nothing to me in my life.

You're a lunatic buying an EV knowing you can't make it to work and back without having to stop somewhere to charge

Mad Lad is right

This is a bit like the Leaf 3.3 V 6.6 Kw charger, it makes a big difference when you need it and you won't escape without needing to fast charge and the less time you need to spend at a charger the better for you and those waiting on you.

The Ioniq has a 7 Kw charger and so can get a decent amount of juice form an AC point too if you arrive in town and need to charge rather than visit a fast charger.

Travelling from city to city etc then the DC is king but when you get into town AC is king. But the 6.6 in the Leaf means I don't need to fast charge a lot but it's a pain when I do and having 65 Kw all the way to 80% would make a big difference. It will make long trips a lot more bearable.

n97 mini

unkel wrote: »

Most people rarely need fast charging

When you're travelling beyond half your range, e.g. down country for the weekend, fast charging is essential. I require that at least once a month (twice in the last week alone).

And the Ioniq makes it all the easier. 65 Kw on the ESB chargers !

87 Kw regen ! :eek:

unkel

n97 mini wrote: »

When you're travelling beyond half your range, e.g. down country for the weekend, fast charging is essential. I require that at least once a month (twice in the last week alone).

200+ km in a day would be a once a year, maybe twice for me. I guess it's handy to just do the one 15-20min charge, have to do a toilet stop / buy stuff in shop shop / eat food with the kids anyway


Live in Dublin, work in Dublin, all family in Dublin. Most holidays abroad (flying)

I don't go beyond the range of the Leaf much but I'd be glad of the extra 70 odd kms the Ioniq can travel without charging compared to the 24 Kwh leaf and the fast charging for times I'd go further. I mainly don't travel far these days anyway

The more range you have the less dependence on the public network.

isnottheword

unkel wrote: »

Most people rarely need fast charging.

Could be more than you think.

unkel wrote: »

You're a lunatic buying an EV knowing you can't make it to work and back without having to stop somewhere to charge

It's not ideal. However, another aspect to consider...
If you want to get full on return on your investment, those that choose an EV as opposed to ICE and clock up big mileage make the best savings.
Don't get me wrong - it's not savvy to have to sit at the side of the road to charge in order to get to and from work. However, I choose to do so during one of my work breaks - using the opportunity to stretch the legs for 20 mins and pick up a few groceries. Over 6 months, I've clawed back 10% of total purchase price of the Leaf (through fuel savings alone - not taking in to consideration servicing - and I'd probably have had to do 2x services during that time frame normally with an ICE).

A 10-15 min QC is all I needed to get home before I got the work charge point, do-a-ble but it's not for everyone. Was actually handy for me coming off night shift to get a bit of kip, sometimes I was woken by a knock on the window 30-40 ins later !

The Ioniq is a game changer in that it will allow most people to make their commute and if you have further than 170-200 kms commute then you need to move or find a job closer to home.

unkel

isnottheword wrote: »

those that choose an EV as opposed to ICE and clock up big mileage make the best savings.

Aye. It's very surprising there aren't more EV taxis. Perfect business model and incredibly, public charging is completely free even for commercial use. Not sure if the Ioniq is approved to be a taxi?


In the Netherlands there are plenty Tesla Model S taxis, I kid you not.

Commercial use should be banned, imagine taxis sucking juice form the chargers all day long ?

They should install their own chargers and AC points at ranks.

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

Aye. It's very surprising there aren't more EV taxis. Perfect business model and incredibly, public charging is completely free even for commercial use.

It would be a dangerous thing to buy an EV for taxi business without considering the potential for charging fees to come in.

I suspect that the proposed charges that the ESB tried last year would cripple them.

That said, the introduction of fees would have one small up side, and putting taxis out of the picture would be it.

There are 2 EV taxi drivers in the country that I'm aware of and both of them unashamedly abuse their local FCP to the constant detriment of other drivers. Gorey and Strabane/Lifford.

unkel

DrPhilG wrote: »

It would be a dangerous thing to buy an EV for taxi business without considering the potential for charging fees to come in.

It would, but even charging "at home" at full day rates (16c/kWh) still only costs a fraction of diesel per km

slave1

Deleted User wrote: »

Commercial use should be banned, imagine taxis sucking juice form the chargers all day long ?

They should install their own chargers and AC points at ranks.

I disagree, they should be as equally encouraged as the domestic EV owner.
As an everyday man, myself and my family gain from the taxi emission reduction in terms of air quality alone...

In any case this will be mute soon once the ESB start charging...

grogi

Deleted User wrote: »

Commercial use should be banned, imagine taxis sucking juice form the chargers all day long ?

They should install their own chargers and AC points at ranks.

Again, it is a balancing game... If a manager is driving a company car - is it commercial usage or not?

I personally would love to see a fleet of electric taxis, they are perfect candidates for electrification. Do highish mileages and mainly stay within city limits. And if people take a ride in an EV taxi, they will be much more keen on buying one as well.

But the fast chargers are not for them. They could easily live on a slow charger network, located at the posts.

Water John

I think there at least one if not two Leaf Taxis in cork as well.
But then, we are a diff Republic of our own!!!

n97 mini

DrPhilG wrote: »

There are 2 EV taxi drivers in the country that I'm aware of and both of them unashamedly abuse their local FCP to the constant detriment of other drivers. Gort and Strabane/Lifford.

I think you mean Gorey as opposed to Gort?

zilog_jones

Water John wrote: »

I think there at least one if not two Leaf Taxis in cork as well.
But then, we are a diff Republic of our own!!!

Yes, there's at least one Leaf taxi in Cork city.

Deleted User wrote: »

A leaf spy equivalent for the Ioniq would be great because then you can directly compare the exact Kwh used per trip something sadly neither car offers, just a useless average of energy consumption.

I'd say with an OBD-II scanner, Torque or some similar app and the right custom PIDs you'll be able to get a lot of data from the Ioniq.

liamog

As part of the RCN study, it was identified that the optimal pricing structure was 2.9x Electricity Used / £4.50.
The study assumed a 60% market share by 2030.

This would give a 15% ROI and payback for a charging station to be achieved within 8 years.
I'd be pretty happy if we have a fully electric taxi fleet paying those kind of charges to help fund network expansion.

DrPhilG

n97 mini wrote: »

I think you mean Gorey as opposed to Gort?

Yes, my mistake.

The Gorey guy is a real ball bag. Rotates 2 taxis most of the day apparently and will gladly red button another user so he can plug in.

cros13

Hyundai have put up some more images on their Ioniq page.
Still not listed in the models on the front page but they have a PCP/HP calculator up:

http://challenge.hyundai.ie/calculate?model=92&trim=490&deposit=10270

650Ginge

DrPhilG wrote: »

Yes, my mistake.

The Gorey guy is a real ball bag. Rotates 2 taxis most of the day apparently and will gladly red button another user so he can plug in.

I make choices to ensure I only get a taxi every couple of years.....its still too often.

Looking at that PCP calculator, I can't understand why people do new cars. I just cant bring myself to do. I will wait for the secondhand Ioniq's.

unkel

650Ginge wrote: »

I can't understand why people do new cars.

Buying new and keeping it for 5 years is probably cheaper than buying it second hand 1 year old and keeping it for 3 years. But if the Ioniq wasn't around I could very well have gone for a nearly new Leaf myself, they are just fantastic value for money.

That said, I'd never go PCP myself. I think it's madness. But it suits some people who like the fixed monthly payments and the semi-security of the GFV and who don't mind paying a premium (interest) for the privilege of owning a new car they can not afford to finance themselves.

650Ginge

unkel wrote: »

Buying new and keeping it for 5 years is probably cheaper than buying it second hand 1 year old and keeping it for 3 years. But if the Ioniq wasn't around I could very well have gone for a nearly new Leaf myself, they are just fantastic value for money.

That said, I'd never go PCP myself. I think it's madness. But it suits some people who like the fixed monthly payments and the semi-security of the GFV and who don't mind paying a premium (interest) for the privilege of owning a new car they can not afford to finance themselves.

Unkel I would like to see how new, keeping for 5 years would work out cheaper than what you used to do and buy older bigger cars, never mind buying a similar sized car.

I think people truly underestimate just how expensive a car is and much expensive in most cases a new car actually is. People make bad decisions all the time, they then completely misrepresent the truth to make themselves feel better. Facts are Facts.

But even if you take the AA figures for a Cat A tax vehicle comes at 21.95c per km at 32000kms a year, €7024 a year. Or if you prefer Dublin to Cork (263kms) costs €115.46 return. If you are a low mileage driver the value is even worse and the same trip in the same typical car is €461.76, to get to Cork and back, holy cow.

I will put the link below, and yes we will also look at the figures and say thats not right and I never spend that but looking at it objectively and not trying to console yourself over your silly life choices you will agree with 90% of the cost. Typically the fuel and running costs are just a fraction, so going electric isn't as big a saver as you think, when all costs are considered.

Maybe this is were the real advantage in relation to cost is for electric vehicles, the way they reduce not just the fuel cost but the total running costs but you still have to be honest the electric car is not yet mainstream and the depreciation is truly horrible compared to an ICE, meaning the cost of going electric will be more over 5 years than an equivalent ICE.

http://www.theaa.ie/aa/motoring-advice/cost-of-motoring.aspx

KCross

Personally I think that should go to a thread of its own.... it will go in all sorts of tangents/arguments about EV running costs that are not specific to the Ioniq.

unkel

650Ginge wrote: »

Unkel I would like to see how new, keeping for 5 years would work out cheaper than what you used to do and buy older bigger cars, never mind buying a similar sized car.

You'd be very surprised. I did some sums (posted them up in this forum at some point) comparing my 13 year old BMW 520i to buying a new Leaf. And even when I biased the figures in favour of the BMW (no more depreciation, very little maintenance - do most of it myself and run it on a shoestring), even with my below average mileage, the total cost of ownership is about the same

Motor tax €120 vs €1,072
Fuel €100 vs €2000

Those two differences alone (€3k) make up more than enough to cover the annual depreciation on the brand new Leaf / Ioniq over say 5 or 6 years and this was assuming that my 13 year old BMW would go on for another 5 or 6 years without dying or needing work

Then there's cheaper insurance, almost zero maintenance cost, free public charging and the benefit of a 5 year warranty (8 years on battery)

And any 1000km extra on top of what I do would only cost something like a tenner. So you'd use the car more without it crippling you