Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

BoatMad

air wrote: »

Not at all, a lot of newer consumer GPS chipsets even use doppler shift of the carrier signals to help deduce speed, making them very accurate in their display of instantaneous speed.

virtually everything in the last 20 yeas uses Doppler, its effectively a mathematical side effect of the process of computing position

BoatMad

KCross wrote: »

I crosschecked two things.... LeafySpy AND SatNav vs the Speedo.
LeafSpy and SatNav agreed. Its also a well known fact at this point for the Leaf that it overreads 10% at the higher speeds.

I've also passed some of those roadside speed indicators and they matched my figures.

The figures I've given are accurate.

well my leaf is 7.8 kmph over at 100kmph , The error isn't exactly linear and I suspect the Leaf has software interfering with the numbers displayed

WHen I did my ioniq test drive , I wasn't as precise as I was concentrating on other things . but to me it was about 4.5-5% over at 100Kmk approx


to be very accurate I would want to repeat the test with the same gear as I didi in the leaf , but its certainly not 0% error , no car is , as it would fall could of the legislation , even as the tyres wore etc . all have positive error

air

BoatMad wrote: »

virtually everything in the last 20 yeas uses Doppler, its effectively a mathematical side effect of the process of computing position

There are plenty of products that just take an NMEA string from the GPS receiver so are thus free to use distance between successive track points to derive speed over ground or the direct speed output of the receiver - which itself can vary in how it's derived.
Furthermore there is a wide variety in the performance of chipsets even over the past 10 years as you're no doubt well aware.
Regardless the main point is that instantaneous speed on any decent recent GPS is generally very accurate.

Which feeds back to the topic in hand, use 2 identical GPS's in a Leaf and Ioniq at the same time on the same road and compare power consumption at various cruising speeds

unkel

BoatMad wrote: »

its certainly not 0% error , no car is , as it would fall could of the legislation

Incorrect. See my above post. Car must read between real speed and real speed + 10% + 4km/h.

BoatMad

air wrote: »

There are plenty of products that just take an NMEA string from the GPS receiver so are thus free to use distance between successive track points to derive speed over ground or the direct speed output of the receiver - which itself can vary in how it's derived.
Furthermore there is a wide variety in the performance of chipsets even over the past 10 years as you're no doubt well aware.
Regardless the main point is that instantaneous speed on any decent recent GPS is generally very accurate.

Which feeds back to the topic in hand, use 2 identical GPS's in a Leaf and Ioniq at the same time on the same road and compare power consumption at various cruising speeds

as this is a specialist area I know a lot about . ( and before I get carried away ) , derived average speed , using positioning , generates errors, anyone investing in GPS tech knows this. SO lets just leave that out of it .

The current range of GPS Units derive speed ( as a scalar ) from the side effect of the algorithms that are used to determined position . Its a very accurate measure .

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

Incorrect. See my above post. Car must read between real speed and real speed + 10% + 4km/h.

yes, and as every design engineer knows, all systems have tolerances , usually standard bell curve based, about a mean , i.e. +-

in order to ensure that you have no minus (-) error , as that would result in displaying under speed, engineers deliberately move the tolerance into the (+) area by applying a bias

PS : I spent 10 years in the car industry in engine assembly design and robotics , I Know this for a fact as Ive met over the years many component engineers involved in all aspects of car design

IN mechanical systems this was achieved by altering the gearing ratios , in modern systems , its done in software

KCross

BoatMad wrote: »

well my leaf is 7.8 kmph over at 100kmph , The error isn't exactly linear and I suspect the Leaf has software interfering with the numbers displayed

WHen I did my ionic test drive , I wasn't as precise as I was concentrating on other things . but to me it was about 4.5-5% over at 100Kmk approx


to be very accurate I would want to repeat the test with the same gear as I didi in the leaf , but its certainly not 0% error , no car is , as it would fall could of the legislation , even as the tyres wore etc . all have positive error

That matches my Leaf.... 108=100. And yes, its not linear (64=60). As you get slower it gets more accurate.

The Ioniq is more accurate.

Thats why Im saying, with reduced weight and better aerodynamics in the Ioniq, if you drive at the same actual speed as the Ioniq on that real world trip I dont think you would get anywhere near 16kWh/100km.


If you drove the Leaf at 128kmh on motorway what kWh/100km figure would you get? I'd suggest it would be 19+.

Just this weekend I did a Cork-Limerick run in a 24kWh Leaf. Drove at indicated 100kmh where I could and was slower in places due to traffic and I got 17kWh/100km. That was dry conditions, N roads, Eco on(as I wanted to do it without stopping).

air

BoatMad wrote: »

as this is a specialist area I know a lot about . ( and before I get carried away ) , derived average speed , using positioning , generates errors, anyone investing in GPS tech knows this. SO lets just leave that out of it .

The current range of GPS Units derive speed ( as a scalar ) from the side effect of the algorithms that are used to determined position . Its a very accurate measure .

Man, I'm in complete agreement with you, I don't see what point you're trying to prove.

If you look up a few posts you'll notice that your post at 14:02 is nearly a word for word quote of my post above it apart from your valuable addition of "I write satnav software".

BoatMad

air wrote: »

Man, I'm in complete agreement with you, I don't see what point you're trying to prove.

If you look up a few posts you'll notice that your post at 14:02 is nearly a word for word quote of my post above it apart from your valuable addition of "I write satnav software".

I wrote my post without seeing yours

What I am trying to say , is that no car has a 100% accurate speedo as is being claimed by some here for the ioniq, its simply impossible to manufacture such a thing without reasonable costs. everything has a tolerance and my rough test suggest 5% of the ioniq

( its a bit of a obsession of mine , calibrating speedos )

air

Agreed, tyre wear of 5mm on a 16in wheel alone would alter the speedo by about .75%.
A friend of mine had a similar obssession in the 70s/80s and would change gears in mechanical speedos for himself and friends while driving known distances in an effort to perfect the readout.

cros13

I tested my old Leaf using a DGPS setup with runs along the con colbert road 200m - 1000m away from the reference station.

Have the data still somewhere. Might have to pull it from tape, cause one of my drive arrays went dead last month.

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

I tested my old Leaf using a DGPS setup with runs along the con colbert road 200m - 1000m away from the reference station.

Have the data still somewhere. Might have to pull it from tape, cause one of my drive arrays went dead last month.

DGPS using averaging methods, is worse then a simple GPS, its not a system optimised for speed measurement

Twin antenna RTK with optimised software is best !!

cros13

Not a system for instantaneous speed measurement. But more accurate estimation of travel distance if you are looking at a fixed speed on a specific straight length of road.

KCross

cros13 wrote: »

I tested my old Leaf using a DGPS setup with runs along the con colbert road 200m - 1000m away from the reference station.

Have the data still somewhere. Might have to pull it from tape, cause one of my drive arrays went dead last month.

Would 1km be enough to give an accurate efficiency figure?

Did you learn anything from it?
Did you put the i3 through the same test?

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

Not a system for instantaneous speed measurement. But more accurate estimation of travel distance if you are looking at a fixed speed on a specific straight length of road.

indeed , but not a way to judge instantaneous speed error , it would be a way to calibrate the odometer of course ,

Mope

last two pages of this (heated) discussion would add little value to someone who looks for info about Ioniq :] It's more science on GPS, Speedos and etc.. (unless they passioned about these numbers like you?)

Let's talk Ioniq?! Was Googling to see if there any press release or time line when (if) Hyundai Blue Link is coming to Europe - could not find any info. Is there even point having it? I know it has service (paid one) to have data gathered about your car, automatic emergency calls and few other bits, but would you see value in this service yourself, would you subscribe and why?

What gadgets do you use in the car and any recommendations on this topic?

Was reading manual and looks like you are able to set time when car can pre-heat inside for you before you leave house, but it is through the car console itself.

thelikelylad

Mope wrote: »

What gadgets do you use in the car and any recommendations on this topic?

Was reading manual and looks like you are able to set time when car can pre-heat inside for you before you leave house, but it is through the car console itself.

Pre-heating works well and is simple to set up. Pic attached.

Now that I have the car the lack of an app doesn't bother me as much as it did when I was in the buying process. Maybe if I came from a Leaf or other EV with an app then it would be a different story. That said, I bought an OBD2 dongle with the idea of polling at the very least battery %. Then I'm thinking of getting a cheap android phone with a cheap data plan that will live in the car to query the OBD dongle and push notifications to my main phone or web app.

Not too pushed about remote control of the climate settings but at the very least checking on the battery % would be handy.

unkel

Mope wrote: »

What gadgets do you use in the car and any recommendations on this topic?

The wireless charging* would be a biggie for me. Tested it on my 24h test drive and it worked well. All my phones have had built in wireless charging for 5 years now (how long have Apple got that now, maybe a year? ), except for a OnePlus Android phone, which is a great phone (for an Android phone) but the lack of native wireless charging meant it wasn't to last as my main phone...

*of my phone, not of the car itself. The Ioniq is good. But not that good

listermint

BoatMad wrote: »

I write SAT nav software

GPS instantaneous speed is extremely accurate as its not ( as most ill informed people think ) derived from averaging distance, but it directly computed from the carrier frequency doppler shift

Looks around office.

I work in the industry for ten years.

GPS suffers from many things including drift it's not infallible the fact you work with it indicates to me that you should be well aware that it's not infallible specially consumer models which are the type we supply ourselves.

I digress it's accurate but not infallible and wheel turn has more accuracy over long distance.

But this is way off topic as is your transgressions into professional hardware versus some ones little sat nav unit that started this discussion.

And no wheel turn isn't infallible either.

Water John

Watching GPS drift in Australia a few nights ago. The port guy steering the cargo ship in the channel had to make a 1.5m alteration in his calculations as Aus moves North 7cm per year.
They correct it occasionally. They are over correcting it this year so that its accurate in 2020. By then they hope to have the software to auto correct GPS.

Wonder what that does for autonomous driving?
Sorry if off topic.

cros13

unkel wrote: »

The wireless charging* would be a biggie for me. Tested it on my 24h test drive and it worked well. All my phones have had built in wireless charging for 5 years now (how long have Apple got that now, maybe a year? ), except for a OnePlus Android phone, which is a great phone (for an Android phone) but the lack of native wireless charging meant it wasn't to last as my main phone...
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I built a qi wireless charging holster for the i3 by 3d printing it to fit the slots for the extra drinks holders.

The Ioniq having it as standard is a great bonus.

unkel

Lad in Germany just drove his Ioniq from 100% to 1%. Half with lights on, half with heat on. Got 296km. Very impressive stuff. I doubt I'll ever make that myself, but both these 2 guys with normal driving without light / heat in summer will no doubt easily get 310km or more.

thelikelylad

I was playing around with the driving modes this evening and released that Eco mode doesn't have climate set to Eco by default.

Seeing as I was using climate at times during my trip to/from Dublin I probably could have done a bit better on the efficiency front

Mope

thelikelylad wrote: »

Pre-heating works well and is simple to set up. Pic attached.

Now that I have the car the lack of an app doesn't bother me as much as it did when I was in the buying process. Maybe if I came from a Leaf or other EV with an app then it would be a different story. That said, I bought an OBD2 dongle with the idea of polling at the very least battery %. Then I'm thinking of getting a cheap android phone with a cheap data plan that will live in the car to query the OBD dongle and push notifications to my main phone or web app.

Not too pushed about remote control of the climate settings but at the very least checking on the battery % would be handy.

It does look to be very simple to setup and what is most important - does the job well! Thanks for sharing photo

unkel wrote: »

The wireless charging* would be a biggie for me. Tested it on my 24h test drive and it worked well. All my phones have had built in wireless charging for 5 years now (how long have Apple got that now, maybe a year? ), except for a OnePlus Android phone, which is a great phone (for an Android phone) but the lack of native wireless charging meant it wasn't to last as my main phone...

*of my phone, not of the car itself. The Ioniq is good. But not that good

Why is wireless charging such a bonus to you? Is it one of those things which if you try you never look back? Never tried it myself...
What do you think, when charging the phone in the car - does it uses 12v battery or main battery. I think it should use 12v battery to not affect your range. Here is question on this topic... also from manual. There was a place where it was said that you can choose weather you want your main battery to keep charging 12v battery when it needs it OR you can switch this off and just replace 12v when it is getting depleted. Anyone else saw this or maybe even tried in real life? Which setting you run and why? I hope I got it right from manual.

unkel

One of those things that once you have it, you can't really go without any more

And I don't think it will have a material impact on range - even a standard car 12V car battery on its own could fully charge a high end phone about 50 times

And default in the Ioniq is that it checks the status of the 12V regularly and if needed, it tops it up from main battery. Even when the car is switched off for several weeks. Details were mentioned on this thread - I think by myself even. I'd leave that setting well alone.

thelikelylad

My phone doesn't support wireless charging but I have found myself using Android Auto a good bit which requires your phone to be plugged in to the USB port anyway so it doesn't bother me too much.

Also even if your phone doesn't support wireless charging the charger cubby is nice just to hold your phone

The Black Oil

I've seen two out my way. One going out the Skerries Road last week. This thread is making me jealous. But, I'm not in the car market and won't be any time soon. One can dream. :P

Mope

This fella you saw is probably one which I stopped to have a chat about his new car :] He was like 60+ years maybe and said he bought it by accident, no planning, just saw it there, tried and bought it. I live in Lusk myself so see that car now and again

zilog_jones

I saw one in Cork last week with a Cork reg, was either silver or grey. It had AA stickers on it so I guess it wasn't a demo car either.

unkel

Latest real life consumption test from Bjørn Nyland done this week in Norway

Ioniq vs Tesla Model S vs Tesla Model X

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CtXMYmUN5s

Ioniq range at

120km/h - 162km
90km/h - 235km
mixed driving and city driving - 302km

Ioniq has winter tyres. Range will be better with summer tyres (like we use in Ireland)

Water John

Driving it at 90km/hr won't get me from Cork to Dublin without stopping.
One can hardly drive at 90km/hr on the motorway. Should be fined for that, a hazard.
Drive at 120km/hr and get there with just, one stop.

unkel

I almost agree, Water John. Although 90km/h is not low enough to be unsafe (not with plenty of trucks out there that can't go over 90km/h)

If you drive at say 70km/h in Germany or in most countries on the continent, you get taken off the road very quickly. Far quicker than if you exceed the speed limit, and rightly so imho. Here in Ireland, not a day goes by that I don't see someone driving at 50-60km/h on a motorway. Usually in the middle lane too when there are 3 lanes. A disgrace.

grogi

unkel wrote: »

Latest real life consumption test from Bjørn Nyland done this week in Norway

Eco seems less efficient than normal driving

unkel

I doubt there is much in it tbh, nothing at all when driving at a constant speed. Small variations are probably caused by small natural variations, slightly more wind, wind slightly turning, slightly different traffic on the road, etc.

I have no plan to ever drive in eco mode, unless for some reason I get an attack of range anxiety and I think it might help

zilog_jones

unkel wrote: »

I almost agree, Water John. Although 90km/h is not low enough to be unsafe (not with plenty of trucks out there that can't go over 90km/h)

I agree - there are many vehicles allowed on motorways which are limited (legally or for fuel efficiency) to 80 or 90 km/h, so driving at 90 km/h is not a safety issue at all. I've often driven at 100km/h on motorways without incident - regardless of efficiency, I find it a lot more relaxing.

unkel

For longer journeys I usually start off at about 20-30km/h above my intended cruising speed. It enhances my concentration even after I slow down once I settle into the journey. I usually cruise at about 120-130km/h (real speed) though, sometimes a lot faster than that. Might have to adjust these speeds downwards if I need the range (and the Ioniq can only do 165km/h real speed - that's a lot lower than what I'm used too )

Can't see myself driving below 100km/h (real speed) though...

BorneTobyWilde

What color did you get.
Did you go for white too .

unkel

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

What color did you get.
Did you go for white too .

Silver

Mope

Got my Registration number today!!! :]

Maybe car by Saturday? Would be great...

BorneTobyWilde

unkel wrote: »

Silver

Did you get it for under 2k with a full nct
:rolleyes:

unkel

No, but tax is going from €1,700 -> €120
fuel is going from €3,000 -> €100

It's a new car, so there will be depreciation, but it is a lot cheaper total cost of ownership (including depreciation) for me to buy a brand new car rather than to keep driving my worthless banger that I maintain myself. And no NCT needed for another 4 years

Mope

What do you mean by under 2k?

thelikelylad

Just posting some more 'real world' efficiency figures that I'm getting, if it's of interest.

I'm just back from a ~50km round trip (Cork -> Bandon -> Cork) with typical evening traffic on the N71. I reset the trip computer and efficiency at the start in Tesco car park in Wilton. Traffic was bad getting out onto the N71 so that hurt my average speed. I stuck to 100km/h when I could on the N71 but again typical traffic so mostly 85-95km/h before hitting traffic again in Innishannon. Without trying too hard I got 12.1kWh/100km for the whole trip. Wasn't overly light with the foot either just matched the traffic and was smart with the regen paddles - 0 for cruising/maintaining speed while gradually increasing regen then when needing to slow down, and repeat.

---
Tesco Wilton -> Bandon FCP -> Tesco Wilton
Temperature: 10-11c
Distance: 53.2km
Average speed: 58km/h
Time: 00:59
Efficiency: 12.1kWh/100km
---

Efficiency hit 11.5kWh/100km coming into Bandon on the way out and that's after a burst of Sport mode for overtaking. I'll be heading to West Cork at the weekend so will see if I can get it down to 11.xkWh/100km for a longer ~200km round trip. Weather forecast is good too so we'll see.

unkel

12.1kWh/100km -> 231km range. Not bad at all for busy traffic and trying to get up to the speed limit of 100km/h where you can.

Mope wrote: »

What do you mean by under 2k?

That's a bit of an in-joke. Both myself and BorneTobyWilde like the "bangernomics" thread in motors a lot, where people post ads of cars (with NCT) they've spotted. The value of the car must be under €2,000. You'd be surprised of the many decent cars are posted in there!

doylerman

What is the difference in driving style that would make the car change from 17kWh to 12kWh?
When I test drove the Ioniq I was getting 17kWh as were all the previous trips on the computer.

That is what put me off buying it as I would need a guaranteed 200km range. (I figured it would probably drop by 10% over the first year or two)

unkel

I can see you signed up a while back but this is your first post. Welcome to boards, doylerman

Range is never guaranteed. If you drive at a real 120km/h, you'll get about 17kWh in the Ioniq, which means a range of just 165km. If you drive a good bit slower (say no more than 100km/h) and it is not very cold in the depths of winter or with a strong head wind, then you are very likely to get your 200km range alright

What driving do you do? If you need a guaranteed 200km range when driving at 120km/h, only a Tesla Model S and Tesla Model X can do that...

Also, your battery will not drop anywhere near 10% in capacity / range in a year or two. Maybe in about 4-5 years...

doylerman

Mostly country roads at 80km/h, a stretch at 100km/h and then city.
My trip driving normally (even a bit slower) was right on the limit of the range showing on the car.

Took the Ioniq for 24 hours and loved it.
Just the range issue held me back.

If I thought driving slightly slower would push the range out I might re-consider it.

650Ginge

doylerman wrote: »

Mostly country roads at 80km/h, a stretch at 100km/h and then city.
My trip driving normally (even a bit slower) was right on the limit of the range showing on the car.

Took the Ioniq for 24 hours and loved it.
Just the range issue held me back.

If I thought driving slightly slower would push the range out I might re-consider it.

You can definitely get a lot more efficiency from any car by driving in the right way. I don't have an ioniq but I am in the top 9% for fuel efficency in my car against all the others logging on fuelly.com. I get 31% more than the average for my car. I had a prius I learned a lot about driving more efficiently from the various prius forums. So driving style matters where fuel efficiency is concerned.

I have a 520d (yes the shame) last two years. I got 28k miles from the rears tyres too. Seems 15k miles is average. Brakes last will I don't know but the dash still says 36k miles but saud tgat for 28k miles already. I just drive at the speed limit. Maybe a bit less on motorway 70mph 70mph tops.

unkel

Driving mostly at 80km/h and city and only a bit at 100km/h should easily give you a range of 200km, unless it was particularly cold / windy? Did you try this particular stretch you do?

I'm not surprised your test car showed an average use of 17kWh. People accelerate like made every few seconds on their 24h test drives just for the craic. And do a bit of motorway driving over 120km/h. I know I did It might be the most efficient car ever made, but it still weighs 1600kg with a heavy driver in it and all that mass has to be accelerated, which is going to use energy.

Is this 200km trip one you do regularly? If so, any CCS fast chargers on the way? Even if you drive fast, a 10 minute top up should see you get the 200km

goz83

doylerman wrote: »

Mostly country roads at 80km/h, a stretch at 100km/h and then city.
My trip driving normally (even a bit slower) was right on the limit of the range showing on the car.

Took the Ioniq for 24 hours and loved it.
Just the range issue held me back.

If I thought driving slightly slower would push the range out I might re-consider it.

You should comfortable get your 200klms if you're doing back-roads mostly, especially if you use the regen mode and drive reasonably.