Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

isnottheword

unkel wrote: »

Apparently all the hardware is already in the Ioniq for fully autonomous driving (autopilot) but Hyundai is still working on the software

That's interesting. So if you're driving with that mode on, will it grind to a halt if the traffic up ahead comes to a sudden stop (like the Tesla does)?
How many sensors are there on the car to facilitate this? Is there any self-park feature?

You'd want to average 9.5 Kwh/100 Kms to get 290 Kms in the Ioniq !!!!! that would probably be driving at 40- 50 Kph !

isnottheword

isnottheword wrote: »

That's interesting. So if you're driving with that mode on, will it grind to a halt if the traffic up ahead comes to a sudden stop (like the Tesla does)?
How many sensors are there on the car to facilitate this? Is there any self-park feature?

Yes the Ioniq with auto cruise will come to a complete halt but you're still in control. You can't take your eye off the road or hands off the wheel.

When traffic moves again the Ioniq will move at a snails pace and you will have to hit the throttle to get moving at a decent speed.

The lane keep assist is dangerous. I found it many times crossing the centre line.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd want to average 9.5 Kwh/100 Kms to get 290 Kms in the Ioniq !!!!! that would probably be driving at 40- 50 Kph !

You haven't seen my posts from last week then? Several owners in the Netherlands and Germany reported that they got 300km range

I'm not sure why you are so surprised / incredulous? Surely you saw the vid of the Ioniq getting 350km on Seoul motorways (admittedly it was busy and it seemed to only do something like 70km/h, but no regen either much on motorways)

woppers

woppers wrote: »

I'll be test driving one in a couple of weeks. About 65% of my commute will be motorway so I'll be interested in what the range will be after driving that stretch for 120kmh.

I'd be interested in your review. No point taking someone else's word, you really got to drive it yourself. But do remember it won't be that long before Leaf II is released and it would be worth waiting to see what they release.

unkel

isnottheword wrote: »

That's interesting. So if you're driving with that mode on, will it grind to a halt if the traffic up ahead comes to a sudden stop (like the Tesla does)?

Of course! The mode is on by default. It includes automatic emergency braking and it has pedestrian detection. So if someone would step from the pavement into the path of the car, it would stop. Even if the driver does nothing. And you just can't rear end a car, even if you do nothing. I rather trust myself though, I'm driving over 30 years and I've never caused a crash. Only ever accident I have been was being rear ended at low speed. Once.

So AED, LKAS and active cruise is what the software can do now. Nothing else, so no self parking. And I haven't a clue what kind of hardware is in place for all of that and how many sensors are used. I should do a bit of research at some point I suppose.

isnottheword

unkel wrote: »

Of course! The mode is on by default. It includes automatic emergency braking and it has pedestrian detection. So if someone would step from the pavement into the path of the car, it would stop. Even if the driver does nothing

So AED, LKAS and active cruise is what the software can do now. Nothing else, so no self parking. And I haven't a clue what kind of hardware is in place for all of that and how many sensors are used. I should do a bit of research at some point I suppose.

That's excellent. Is that being reflected properly in the insurance premium rate you got for it then?

unkel

woppers wrote: »

I'll be test driving one in a couple of weeks. About 65% of my commute will be motorway so I'll be interested in what the range will be after driving that stretch for 120kmh.

From memory reading owners reports in mild temperatures the Ioniq will do 220km at 110km/h

Probably a bit on the optimistic side if you would ask my opinion. At 120km/h it will be well under 200km, maybe something like 170km. Again I'm guessing here. But my guesses have proved to be fairly ball park before and that was before I even owned the damn car

EVs simply have very little energy on board. A 30kWh EV has 90% less energy than a similar size petrol car. Only one tenth of the energy!!!

At speed is where EVs simply are not very good. Even cars like the Ioniq and the Tesla Model S, which both have the best aerodynamics in the world (cd of 0.24)

unkel

isnottheword wrote: »

That's excellent. Is that being reflected properly in the insurance premium rate you got for it then?

I doubt it. But EVs in general get fairly good insurance premiums. I don't know the details of mine yet, but I do know I will be getting a refund. Which is not bad. Comprehensive insurance from a traditional insurer (Axa or Allianz iirc) coming from an almost worthless car (14 year old Jaguar S-type) to a €30k insurance value brand new car

unkel

unkel wrote: »

EVs simply have very little energy on board. A 30kWh EV has 90% less energy than a similar size petrol car. Only one tenth of the energy!!!

At speed is where EVs simply are not very good. Even cars like the Ioniq and the Tesla Model S, which both have the best aerodynamics in the world (cd of 0.24)

If an ICE had the same energy as an Ioniq then it would not travel further than about 20 Kms !

electrics are much more efficient.

liamog

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The lane keep assist is dangerous. I found it many times crossing the centre line.

That sounds rough, we've had LKAS on constantly for a couple of months. The default setting isn't very aggressive and mostly just beeps at you. Turn it up to the max and it will steer your around corners. It's subtle, but really helps reduce the fatigue when driving.

DrPhilG

unkel wrote: »

Comprehensive insurance from a traditional insurer (Axa or Allianz iirc) coming from an almost worthless car (14 year old Jaguar S-type) to a €30k insurance value brand new car

Bear in mind that 123.ie increased my premium when I reduced the value of the car stated on the renewal...

woppers

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd be interested in your review. No point taking someone else's word, you really got to drive it yourself. But do remember it won't be that long before Leaf II is released and it would be worth waiting to see what they release.

I'll keep the forum updated with my experience driving the Ioniq. I'll try to adopt a different driving style every day to measure the range. Everyday I'll post the latest results.

I'm going to try and simulate a winters day also by keeping the headlights and heater and demisters on. Hopefully it'll be raining that day too so I can keep the wipers on

The biggest test for me will be seeing how much range I get on a winters day without having to compromise on speed. I'd like to be able to hit the speed limits for the whole journey. This will hopefully show me how the car will perform in winter.

Obviously I won't be able to simulate the outside temperature though

isnottheword wrote: »

That's excellent. Is that being reflected properly in the insurance premium rate you got for it then?

unkel wrote: »

I doubt it. But EVs in general get fairly good insurance premiums. I don't know the details of mine yet, but I do know I will be getting a refund. Which is not bad. Comprehensive insurance from a traditional insurer (Axa or Allianz iirc) coming from an almost worthless car (14 year old Jaguar S-type) to a €30k insurance value brand new car

DrPhilG wrote: »

Bear in mind that 123.ie increased my premium when I reduced the value of the car stated on the renewal...

I got a quote with Aviva on this. I'm currently with them for an 08 Qashqai 1.5 diesel. €480 for myself and my wife. The estimated value is €8,500.

I got a quote for just myself on the Ioniq and it was €1000. Well, €999.25 to be exact and that includes the 25% multicar discount

I have a full Irish license for 11 years, never any claims or penalty points. In fairness, I've been a named driver for the previous 10 years but as of March I now have a 1 year no claims bonus with Aviva.

Mope

Wow, that is steep premium with such amount of no claims. I am about to find out what it will be for us.

Fiery mutant

My current policy is up on May 6th, so I'll find out very soon whT insurance will be like, but I'll be fighting tooth and nail with any company that tries to pull a fast one.

As for the range, 11.3kwh/100km is the best I have done yet, on a work run. Drove 100km yesterday to my parents, on the n4/m50/m11 and got 11.8kwh/100km.

bk

Water John wrote: »

If 10 EV owners go to the cinema or a show, where will they all plug in for 2 hours?

In Alaska, pretty much every single parking space has a power plug. Not necessarily for electric cars (though they can use it) but for heaters for ICE cars when the car isn't running.

It is so cold there that ICE engines won't start without being kept constantly warmed up.

The point is, if EV's are the future, then lots of on-street AC charging will also be absolutely necessary and will happen in time, just like in Alaska.

Remember lots of people live in apartments or houses that have only on-street parking. They are going to need on-street charging.

Yep and AC will massively out number DC in my opinion.

My Brother for instance, the management agency said he can have his charge point but he'd have to cable to the meter which is very far so he can tap into a suitable point where there is sufficient power, however the problem is that it would have to be a communal based system where everyone pays for the electricity and no management agency is going to agree to this or rather the residents because most of them won't own a car and there are a lot of apartments rented. Getting the management agency to agree to do anything he said is a huge challenge and stressful so getting residents to pay for his electricity simply won't happen.

For apartment owners there needs to be a better solution and one that is implemented in Law to make charging a right , however, I can't see another way other than the communal route. This is where you'd need much faster charging capable cars and chargers capable of 300 odd Kw before it's feasible for these unfortunate people who will be stuck with petrol and diesel for many years to come.

I'd like to see more work places install charge points.

n97 mini

unkel wrote: »

Aren't there loads of Leaf taxis that have been charging numerous times a day for years (without issue)?

There's now the EV equivalent of battery clocking too. Read recently about a person who bought a used Leaf. Battery health at 12 bars. 6 weeks later is was at 8.

Don't know how they could tamper with the BMS. With the Odometer yeah but the BMS, I don't think so. I've never known the battery to go from 12-8 bars unless there was an issue with some of the cells then perhaps.

isnottheword

A Leaf Spy check would reveal all in any event.

Mope

Can someone please translate this to English for me? This is a letter re Charger installation replied to me:

"<...> By law the upgrade would have to be carried out by a safe electric registered electrician and a system should be put in place to ensure you do not break your Maximum Import Capacity (MIC). Alternatively you could increase your MIC to cover such a large increase in load but this could be expensive. <...> "

This MIC thing is what I should be worried about only if I have Electric showers (which I don't), correct?

isnottheword

Mope wrote: »

This MIC thing is what I should be worried about only if I have Electric showers (which I don't), correct?

Careful now - don't mention <electric showers> on here or we'll go off on a tangent!:D

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Discuss with your sparks at time of install.

n97 mini

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't know how they could tamper with the BMS. With the Odometer yeah but the BMS, I don't think so. I've never known the battery to go from 12-8 bars unless there was an issue with some of the cells then perhaps.

Reset the BMS and it starts out at 12 bars. After a while it "learns" what the battery is really like. This happens with warranty replacements as the replacements aren't brand new.

Mope

Noted, thanks isnottheword

n97 mini

Mope wrote: »

Can someone please translate this to English for me? This is a letter re Charger installation replied to me:

"<...> By law the upgrade would have to be carried out by a safe electric registered electrician and a system should be put in place to ensure you do not break your Maximum Import Capacity (MIC). Alternatively you could increase your MIC to cover such a large increase in load but this could be expensive. <...> "

This MIC thing is what I should be worried about only if I have Electric showers (which I don't), correct?

Using MIC is a little bit woolly, but you've pretty much got it. It's making sure you don't exceed the draw the main fuse (65A) can take. If you've no real heavy users of power then you've nothing to worry about. Generally if it's used to create lots of heat it's a heavy user.

n97 mini

n97 mini wrote: »

Reset the BMS and it starts out at 12 bars. After a while it "learns" what the battery is really like. This happens with warranty replacements as the replacements aren't brand new.

All the more reason to avoid private sales and back street dealers then.

KCross

Mope wrote: »

Can someone please translate this to English for me? This is a letter re Charger installation replied to me:

"<...> By law the upgrade would have to be carried out by a safe electric registered electrician and a system should be put in place to ensure you do not break your Maximum Import Capacity (MIC). Alternatively you could increase your MIC to cover such a large increase in load but this could be expensive. <...> "

This MIC thing is what I should be worried about only if I have Electric showers (which I don't), correct?

A standard electric connection for domestic house is 12kVA. They are basically saying you should not exceed that when you add more devices to the house and adding a 7kW EVSE is a significant addition.

Do you have a heat pump for heating the house or are you oil/gas heating?

You are probably OK if you dont have a heat pump or an electric shower.

Mope

Thanks for the input. No I do not have high power drainers (no storage heating, no electric showers)

I have A2 or A3 house with Gas and Solar, dishwasher and washing machine, that's about all of my appliances, oh and a VERY loud water pump

So I am OK re MIC. One way or another I'd need qualified spark (or someone from here ) to upgrade (when I decide to) my Charge Point.

n97 mini

Is your cooker gas or electric?

unkel

bk wrote: »

if EV's are the future, then lots of on-street AC charging will also be absolutely necessary

I don't see that as the future at all. Having to get your cable out and plugging it in at 2 ends nearly every day? Sounds like a nightmare to me.

I'd like to think that in 5 years time a new budget EV has a battery of 60kWh, a range of over 400km and once in a while maybe once a week or once every two weeks, depending on your mileage (once a week would be a good bit more than the average Irish annual mileage) you'd fill up at a filling station which will take about 5-10 minutes and bill / debit you automatically. Exactly the same as ICE now, except you don't have to go inside to pay

And a bit further into the future: wireless charging with auto billing.

EVs are not just about saving the environment and saving money, they should make your life easier. Or at least not harder. The constant messing with cables sounds like a terrible idea to me. Necessary for some people today, but please let's get rid of them in the future

Mope

n97 mini wrote: »

Is your cooker gas or electric?

Ouch, that I forgot, electric (induction hob)

KCross

unkel wrote: »

I'd like to think that in 5 years time a new budget EV has a battery of 60kWh, a range of over 400km and once in a while maybe once a week or once every two weeks, depending on your mileage (once a week would be a good bit more than the average Irish annual mileage) you'd fill up at a filling station which will take about 5-10 minutes and bill / debit you automatically. Exactly the same as ICE now, except you don't have to go inside to pay

Charging larger batteries in faster times means much larger cables (even with active cooling). The cables today are already big/heavy enough. You could get much more out of them, as Tesla have via cooling, but to get it down to 10mins is a big ask.

Its a good goal to strive for. Realistically, I'd say, the only way to get a 60kWh+ battery in 5mins is via some kind of battery swap system.

Maybe some super duper charging innovation comes along that can do it but I'd say it would be decades away.

KCross

Mope wrote: »

Ouch, that I forgot, electric (induction hob)

That shouldnt be an issue.

bk

unkel wrote: »

I don't see that as the future at all. Having to get your cable out and plugging it in at 2 ends nearly every day? Sounds like a nightmare to me.

I disagree strongly. I'd much rather spend 60 seconds plugging in two ends every night and have a full charge in the morning in case there is a change of plans and have to take a long distance trip, rather then having to drive to some distant, desolate service station and sit there for 30 minutes once a week.

To be honest with you Unkel, if what you suggest was the case that I truly don't believe that EV's will take off, too inconvenient for people without a drive way.

unkel

bk wrote: »

rather then having to drive to some distant, desolate service station and sit there for 30 minutes once a week.

5 minutes. Just like people getting petrol / diesel now

You wouldn't have to drive anywhere to get juice, you would just fill up as you pass a station. Exactly like you do in your ICE now. People aren't complaining that they don't have their own petrol station on their driveway either, are they? :pac:

But yeah, home charging is ideal. But it should be wireless, not having to use a cable, going forward.

goz83

Innovation and Technology is moving at an incredible pace.

It wasn't long ago when EVs were more or less restricted to golf carts and milk trolleys. The closest I got to an EV was a fork-lift.

Call me optimistic, but I think EV will move at close enough to the same speed as mobile phones have, but the EV revolution is just 15-20 years behind. However, much of the tech/software in smartphones and batteries is transferable to EVs, so that gives them a big boost.

I think a sticky on EV tech developments might not be a bad idea. In a year, or two, we might be surprised that some of our crazy optimistic predictions have come to light. Hell, I have surprised myself by liking a Nissan Leaf

Calahonda52

unkel wrote: »

.... Having to get your cable out and plugging it in at 2 ends nearly every day? Sounds like a nightmare to me...

n97 mini

unkel wrote: »

The constant messing with cables sounds like a terrible idea to me. Necessary for some people today, but please let's get rid of them in the future

I agree that getting the cable out of the boot and plugging in both ends, then unplugging and packing away afterwards is an inconvenience (especially if it's raining), but a tethered cable on the CP would make it the same as the tethered hose a petrol pump, which is fairly convenient.

Of course as long as we have several competing standards it's not likely to happen too often.

goz83

n97 mini wrote: »

I agree that getting the cable out of the boot and plugging in both ends, then unplugging and packing away afterwards is an inconvenience (especially if it's raining), but a tethered cable on the CP would make it the same as the tethered hose a petrol pump, which is fairly convenient.

Of course as long as we have several competing standards it's not likely to happen too often.

Tethered makes most sense to me. Happy to pay the €100 to completely replace the Type 1 cable when I eventually get a Type 2 car. But, I think an adaptor kit will be more likely.

unkel

I'm still contemplating buying a 15m type 2 cable for at home. I'd leave it plugged in at the charger and at a pedestal on the other end. Right beside the chargepoint of the car. So effectively a tethered charger too, without the need to even move the cable. It can then leave the classic car on the drive and drive straight in, no need for reversing. About £300 though, not too pleased with that.

bk

unkel wrote: »

5 minutes. Just like people getting petrol / diesel now

But still much faster then sitting around in a service station for 30 minutes with a crying baby in the back!

unkel wrote: »

But yeah, home charging is ideal. But it should be wireless, not having to use a cable, going forward.

Agree 100%

Shefwedfan

unkel wrote: »

I'm still contemplating buying a 15m type 2 cable for at home. I'd leave it plugged in at the charger and at a pedestal on the other end. Right beside the chargepoint of the car. So effectively a tethered charger too, without the need to even move the cable. It can then leave the classic car on the drive and drive straight in, no need for reversing. About £300 though, not too pleased with that.

I want to do something similar, at the moment I have my cable connected to charger at house and just leave during the day. To take it out I need to mess around with locks etc Really I would like to buy second cable which I can leave in car. It is pure laziness but that is me:P

Mope

Rang my dealer just 10 min ago, he has no clue if cars are en route (just assumes they are) and when/if they going to be in Dublin today.

I give up. When it happens, it happens.

n97 mini

bk wrote: »

Agree 100%

There is at least one wireless charging solution for the Leaf and others right now. It looks too fiddly to me tho.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARfvb1nbP04

bipedalhumanoid

unkel wrote: »

maybe once a week or once every two weeks, depending on your mileage (once a week would be a good bit more than the average Irish annual mileage) you'd fill up at a filling station which will take about 5-10 minutes and bill / debit you automatically. Exactly the same as ICE now, except you don't have to go inside to pay

I'd see that as a huge step backwards. It takes no time at all to plug a cable into the front of your house and then forget about it. Fueling a petrol car means driving to a special location, standing there like an idiot while it fills and then completing whatever detour you had to make to get to the petrol station before moving on to your destination.

The inconvenience of having to visit petrol stations is something I gave up two years ago when I upgraded to an EV and I never want to go back to it.

unkel wrote: »

EVs are not just about saving the environment and saving money.

I saved €8k in two years on an 80km daily commute by moving from a 1.6L Nissan Primera to a mid-range 24kwh Nissan Leaf.

Especially in Europe where we pay massive amounts of money on petrol excise, there is big money to be saved by going electric.

KCross

n97 mini wrote: »

There is at least one wireless charging solution for the Leaf and others right now. It looks too fiddly to me tho.

With vehicle autonomy the future for wireless charging is going to happen. When you return home you will simply press a button and the car positions itself over the charger in the most optimum position. It may even extend to a proper plugin type system to make it more efficient as wireless charging isnt as efficient as using a direct cable connection.

I have a robotic lawnmower with a battery and a base station (look for Husqvarna Automower on Youtube.... full recommend it!) and it autonomously returns to the base station to charge and it measures the signal from the base station and manages to guide itself to within a cm or so of tolerance into the charging contacts. If a lawnmower can do that with 10yr old technology and a car can drive itself on the road it is inevitable that it will also charge itself.

I think whats holding back wireless charging is the efficiency of it.... but that should be solvable.

n97 mini

KCross wrote: »

I have a robotic lawnmower with a battery and a base station (look for Husqvarna Automower on Youtube.... full recommend it!) and it autonomously returns to the base station to charge and it measures the signal from the base station and manages to guide itself to within a cm or so of tolerance into the charging contacts. If a lawnmower can do that with 10yr old technology and a car can drive itself on the road it is inevitable that it will also charge itself.

It follows a bloody guide wire, or a simple radio signal if it thinks it has line of sight? Hardly practical for autonomous cars!

KCross

n97 mini wrote: »

It follows a bloody guide wire, or a simple radio signal if it thinks it has line of sight? Hardly practical for autonomous cars!

Nor did I suggest it was suitable for autonomous driving on the road. Obviously autonomous driving is highly complex (radar etc and certainly no guide wires!)

The task being discussed here is not at all complex. Its simply positioning the car over a charging unit on your driveway at very low speed.

I'm merely stating that if a robotic mower can do it on 10yr old tech a car can do it very easily with the levels of sophistication they already have.

Cars already park themselves. Positioning over a charge point should be simple. Thats my point.

Water John

Well, the core charging for the majority of Irish people will be at home by night. Battery size and tech will provide a payload that covers the vast majority of commuters.
Whether its a plug in or induction is a sub set of that.

A second group are houses and apartments that use streetside parking. A night charging option must be facilitated for them. If that means SCP's so be it.

A FC Network will also be needed for people travelling distance, esp not returning home each night. How fast that upload is up to future tech.
If I travel to Dublin from West Cork for a meeting and wish to return the same day or travel elsewhere the following day, for example.
If that fill up time can be got to a low figure, it will be a great leap forward for EVs.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

EVs are not just about saving the environment and saving money, they should make your life easier. Or at least not harder. The constant messing with cables sounds like a terrible idea to me. Necessary for some people today, but please let's get rid of them in the future

I could think of a much harder life , for instance, walking to work !

Plugging in and out a cable twice a day isn't a chore for me but a pleasure especially when I know how little it's costing especially with work charging.