Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

Mope

ewj1978 wrote: »

Wait.. can I get that installed at home?

For which car? Zoe?

Alu

Mope wrote: »

For which car? Zoe?

Its a DC charger so CCS and CHAdeMO

http://insideevs.com/efacec-unveils-24-kw-semi-fast-charger/

cros13

ewj1978 wrote: »

Wait.. can I get that installed at home?

Yup... but you'd need to upgrade your ESB connection to ~29kVa which is the highest standard domestic single phase connection.

Mope wrote: »

For which car? Zoe?

No... CCS or Chademo. For the rest of us.

unkel

cros13 wrote: »

About €25k and at least as much again for the siteworks/grid connection.

So 800 of these (100 sites with 8 FCP each - that would cover the country nicely for the next 5-10 years, wouldn't it?) would cost 100 * €25k for the siteworks + 800 * €25k for the charger = just 22.5 million?

That's nothing compared to our emissions fines. Will a politician with vision / balls finally get up and do something here? If we left it to the ESB, we'd be forever stuck in 2009.

Why bother doing anything , why go through the circus of debating anything in the Dail for 10 years first and all the moaning on Joe Duffy, it's far easier to pay fines and just bill it to the tax payer.

unkel

:mad:

you're right of course

unkel

unkel wrote: »

:mad:

you're right of course

Indeed I am.

Any change will be met with fierce resistance by the public. The Government don't want to face this after the water charges. They want the easy life and collect the pension at the end.

Mope

unkel wrote: »

So 800 of these (100 sites with 8 FCP each - that would cover the country nicely for the next 5-10 years, wouldn't it?) would cost 100 * €25k for the siteworks + 800 * €25k for the charger = just 22.5 million?

That's nothing compared to our emissions fines. Will a politician with vision / balls finally get up and do something here? If we left it to the ESB, we'd be forever stuck in 2009.

That's with you wanting infrastructure which is somewhat future proof, but even if you make this number (amount of FCP per site) to half of it (4) or even (2) per site, that is already more than there is now available for 5.5 million.

Maybe BoatMad could suggest above calculations to people he meet regularly? 22mills is not a big number if this covers entire island once and for LONG time.

Water John

Two other costs, the sites and ESB connections and substations.

The plan, is correct though.

ELM327

2 FCP per site is a no brainer. It should have been done initially as there would only be one install cost.

ewj1978

cros13 wrote: »

Yup... but you'd need to upgrade your ESB connection to ~29kVa which is the highest standard domestic single phase connection.



No... CCS or Chademo. For the rest of us.

Any idea of cost? Herself is wanting an EV too, so charging at 22kw would be very handy.

unkel

Would you not just charge overnight? You can charge both EVs on a standard 32A home charger (less than €1k installed) within 8 hours at the cheap night rate.

unkel

Met lovely lady in a very early (Jan 2017) black Ioniq EV today at my local FCP. Was a bit jealous - the black looks fabulous (had it on my 24h test drive car too). I know myself, not into washing the car much. And black gets dirty quickly. But maybe I should have gone for it anyway!

Ballylad

Hi, been reading ev post last few weeks, am getting ionic end of june, can you tell me the following
I have 5kw solar PV at home so need to utilise when suits/output available to charge ev, can you charge an ionic at 3kw/hr at home, what type charges can you do with home charger installed?
Very little CCS charger in Carlow/M9 to Dublin, what other charge does ionic take on public esb charge points for both DC and AC?
Thanks

Ballylad

Ballylad wrote: »

Hi, been reading ev post last few weeks, am getting ionic end of june, can you tell me the following
I have 5kw solar PV at home so need to utilise when suits/output available to charge ev, can you charge an ionic at 3kw/hr at home, what type charges can you do with home charger installed?
Very little CCS charger in Carlow/M9 to Dublin, what other charge does ionic take on public esb charge points for both DC and AC?
Thanks

You can charge the Ioniq at 3.5 Kw with a 16 amp EVSE ( charge point) or roughly 7 Kw with a 32 amp EVSE.

The car will probably pull a lot more than the array can deliver especially in the darker months and even on over cast brighter months like today for instance. It would still most likely cost a lot more to charge the car with the array than on Night rate electricity due to the variability in the power.

On days where it is a lot brighter or there is direct sun light then you would probably see the full 3.5 Kw delivered to the car or close enough. But at 7-8.4 C/Kwh night rate I think for the majority of the time it will cost you more to use the solar.

Ideally this is where the Feed-In-Tariff comes in, send all your excess to the grid when not there or when it's sunny enough that you can't use all the power then buy it back when you need it. A FIT of at at least the cost of night rate electricity would mean you get paid what you'd pay for night rate.

May I ask what persuaded you to get a solar PV array when we have no Feed-In-Tariff ?

The Ioniq will charge at 7 Kw from the Public 22 Kw AC points and about 65 Kw form A CCS DC Fast Charger which is a lot faster than a Leaf (on a fast charger) and as a 24 Kwh 2015 Leaf owner for 65,900 Kms I can tell you this alone makes a massive difference !

We'll probably see a lot less new AC points and more 20-30 Kw DC CCS points like in Germany as well as a lot more 100+ Kw DC points when the ESB and others begin installing charge points again. There have been no new points installed in over a year from the ESB . Tesla have commissioned so far one Super Charger site and rumours of private companies installing CCS only points in Ireland this year and it "could" very well be the case that by this time next year CCS will greatly out number ChaDeMo.

air

Ballylad, have a look at the Zappi intelligent charger. It can constantly vary the charge current to your car from 6 up to 32A in real time to match the excess available from your PV.

Looks good but you could be plugged for an awfully long time and you have to give free energy to the ESB when not plugged in. And even at that you'll still have a lot of excess you can't use. It's only good for people who can leave the car home all day.

I didn't catch the cost of it ?

Ballylad

Thanks for detailed reply!,
Are the 22kw ac public chargers called type 2 chargers on ecars map, can all Ev cars use these?,
I will be using car for local driving in Tullow/Carlow area initially as missus does about 25k per year so a bit disappointed with lack of fast charge although local Hyundai garage is offering free fast charge if stuck. My real interest is to use one to do my 208km round trip to dublin, with just the fast charge in Tesco Naas and none on M9, might wait until work might install fast chargers, don't think ionic is capable of that journey with about 80 percent motorway driving?
Have solar pv over year now and like most people struggled with long payback on investment, first 12 months yielded 4900 kWh, didn't see extended delay with Fit payment, and lobbying for large solar farms where microgeneration looks like will be poorly supported. Have monitors to display pv generation/ use age so use as much as possible according to that, my geothermal heat pump also is timed to use peak pv production which covers it most of time, rest is set on night rate tarriff. We have all low energy bulbs and appliances etc so our mindset has changed on electric useage. You are right in saying that without the Fit it has an extended payback but if you utilise what you use as much as possible, there are savings to be had , long term, if storage batteries get cheaper and fair Fit is introduced, paypack will be quicker. As for charging ev , not all days are sutable to cover required rate of charge so again close monitoring of pv output required. Feels great to produce your own electricity but without Fit be prepared to use what you produce or else you are looking at very poor investment return.

Water John

Well, you can see why there is little support from he powers that be for micro solar generation with the announcement by ESB and Bord Na Mona of 5 very large PV projects during the week.
Sorry if a bit off topic.
Your garage should give you a charge any time, whilst open.

Michael Lyng has no fast charger ? and they said they've no intentions of installing one either.

Naas can be a very dodgy spot for with shoppers taking up the charge point while shopping and it's woeful spot to get to in peak traffic but unfortunately it was the only site the ESB found available after all the N7 garages said get lost.

You won't make 208 Kms round trip in the Ioniq and it's a long trip to restrict your speed, but you might be surprised how little time you need to spend on a fast charger or if you slow down 10-15 Kph how far extra range you can get. The Ioniq charges quiet fast on the fast charger.

unkel

Ballylad wrote: »

My real interest is to use one to do my 208km round trip to dublin, with just the fast charge in Tesco Naas and none on M9, might wait until work might install fast chargers, don't think ionic is capable of that journey with about 80 percent motorway driving?

Not if you drive at 120km/h. I'd say you probably have a good chance to make it if you stick to 100km/h though (not on a cold winters day). Have you the balls to try that out?

There's feck all slow chargers on your way back between Naas and Carlow, so if you don't make it, you will get stuck...

Ballylad

Thought as much regarding range and fast charge accessibility in Naas, hopefully work will install chargers soon, what is approx range for mixed driving and motorway driving if you drive in eco mode and travel under 100km/hr ?
Does it cost extra to go from 16kva to 32kva supply for home charger?

Water John

The Free installation is only 16 A connection.
Some people supply heavier cable or ask the installer to use heavier cable.
6 sq on short runs and 10 sq for longer runs to future proof it.
Any cable outdoor should be SWA.
The installer will put in a 16A charger.
Some poster talk of Flashing that later, to change it to 32A as the fitting is capable of it. Outside my comfort zone.

I had two locations and installed the Free one and then have just put a 32A at a second location.
Chargemaster €400, sparks friend installed at parts cost. Possibly pay €150/200.

unkel

Ballylad wrote: »

what is approx range for mixed driving and motorway driving if you drive in eco mode and travel under 100km/hr ?

I only ever drive in sport mode, I drive the car hard and I drive at the speed limit or over (on quiet motorways) and my range would be about 200km on average (about 14kWh / 100km) but I've never driven the car from full to empty

Probably best to try your 208km route for yourself, with a charge the first time, that should give you a good idea

Ballylad wrote: »

Does it cost extra to go from 16kva to 32kva supply for home charger?

Not sure what you mean here. Do you want to have the power coming into your home increased from 12kva or whatever it is now to more? That would be very expensive. Or do you mean getting a 16A or 32A home charger? If the latter, a 16A charger is installed completely free of charge. Hurry up, you will get one of the last free ones. Make sure they use 6mm2 cable. The standard 16A charger can be flashed to be 32A, you would then just have to change the 16A RCBO (about €25 for the part)

Ballylad

Ballylad wrote: »

Thought as much regarding range and fast charge accessibility in Naas, hopefully work will install chargers soon, what is approx range for mixed driving and motorway driving if you drive in eco mode and travel under 100km/hr ?
Does it cost extra to go from 16kva to 32kva supply for home charger?

Everyone is going to get different efficiency results. I averaged 15.3 over 207 Km which would have got around 180 Kms range, some wind and wet roads for about 60 Kms and about 10 Deg C. Which really wasn't bad but the greatest difference was 65 Kw charging from the fast charger. 33-90% in 25 mins. That was very impressive and way faster than a 24 Kwh Leaf.

I reckon 300 Kms is very achievable with a 30 min fast charge. But drive under 100 Kph and you could see over 200 kms. So fast charge V driving at a slower speed. In reality the difference between 100 and 120 Kph isn't a lot.

Mope

I did 3 days of Driving in IONIQ this bank holiday. Have all stats written down, but have no time to get them out.

I can confirm that it is possible to do 208km round trip in one charge, but it's definitely not 120km/h. I'd say 100km/h or +/- 5km/h is where you could make this distance without a charge.

I did 1211.5 KM with avg speed of 65km/h, total driving time 19.50 hrs

Returned from Ballynasloe FCP to Lusk (94% battery) without issues and was driving with avg speed of 105km/h for trip of 163.5 KMs. Most time 115 on Cruise Control until Lucan or around.

And that's in good weather too. Still not bad and the fast charging.........

KCross

It makes you wonder about these 300km videos of the Ioniq. They are meaningless unless more than one type of EV is in the same test at the same time and even then you'd have to question its usefulness as its not a readily obtainable range.

People want to drive as normal, not hypermiling and nursing the accelerator, and want to know how far it will go with some to spare... real world.

Bigus

KCross wrote: »

It makes you wonder about these 300km videos of the Ioniq. They are meaningless unless more than one type of EV is in the same test at the same time and even then you'd have to question its usefulness as its not a readily obtainable range.

People want to drive as normal, not hypermiling and nursing the accelerator, and want to know how far it will go with some to spare... real world.

Not necessarily, if the cost of a 250 km regular trip is coming down from 50 euro in a gas guzzler to 2.50 in an EV a lot of people would do a bit of drafting and hyper miling and set cruise to 85 kph to make the huge monetary and ECO saving or rather skip a 20 min stop for a top up. It's the inverse of the thrill in the old days of trying to shave off a minute or two by speeding and driving /overtaking dangerously .

Mope

Deleted User wrote: »

And that's in good weather too. Still not bad and the fast charging.........

It was actually very bad conditions from Portlaoise to Limerick, but I knew I have FCP on the other end so was not thinking about battery. Day 2 and 3 (Sun/Mon) were very nice days. Heater was on only rarely (had 2 kids in the car)

Most of my driving I did without thinking too much about how I drive. I just looked up distances in advance, where SCP and/or FCP is and that is all. If you are not doing 120km/h IONIQ can absolutely do more than 200KM range no problem. Not by much, it's not 250 or so if we are talking about NORMAL driving and not sitting back after each car which is slower than it is safe to drive on a given road.

But we are not yet in the worlds where if you drive EV you do not think about your range at all. The thought is always there - I kind of like it, because it makes you a little bit responsible for how you can make impact on surroundings. Useless overtaking, excessive braking and etc.... All small changes you all know about :-)

KCross

Bigus wrote: »

Not necessarily, if the cost of a 250 km regular trip is coming down from 50 euro in a gas guzzler to 2.50 in an EV a lot of people would do a bit of drafting and hyper miling and set cruise to 85 kph to make the huge monetary and ECO saving or rather skip a 20 min stop for a top up. It's the inverse of the thrill in the old days of trying to shave off a minute or two by speeding and driving /overtaking dangerously .

Im not saying you shouldn't hypermile. Im just saying its not how the majority want to drive and so don't care that it is technically possible to do 300km. What they want and need to know is what it can do when they drive it like their ICE.

The 300km videos gives the impression its normal everyday driving, which it clearly isn't and thats misleading.

Soarer

?4,000 scrappage on the Ioniq EV! (see attached).
Compared to the 30kWh batter and 6.6kW charger (see attached).

So Ioniq is ?25,500 + delivery and stuff.
And Leaf is ?26,840 + delivery and stuff.

On the face of it, there's no comparison.
But I'd imagine you'd get another few quid off the Leaf.

Mope

Here are stats from car itself for 3days.
Day 1 Lusk - Dingle (Saturday)
Day 2 ROK (Sunday)
Day 3 Co Dingle to Cliffs of Moher and back to Lusk via Galway. (Monday)

Water John

The ROK was the least efficient drive. Did you think you were doing the Rally of the Lakes?
The other drives are very good.

I think we can chalk it down as a 200km per charge car, on average.

Fiery mutant

It really depends on the roads you're driving. My work run was a total of 124km today, and I still have 117km left on the battery. I don't hypermile or tickle the accelerator, but I don't floor it either to be honest.

unkel

Mope, you averaged 13.3kW/100km, which is an average range of 210km. And you did mostly 115km/h on the motorway stretches? That's pretty impressive.

Water John

If you drop his Rally phase, which was not on motorway, he avg is 12kw/100km.
That would push him past 230 km on a charge.

listermint

Water John wrote: »

If you drop his Rally phase, which was not on motorway, he avg is 12kw/100km.
That would push him past 230 km on a charge.

Rally phase lol

Gumbo

Soarer wrote: »

?4,000 scrappage on the Ioniq EV! (see attached).
Compared to the 30kWh batter and 6.6kW charger (see attached).

So Ioniq is ?25,500 + delivery and stuff.
And Leaf is ?26,840 + delivery and stuff.

On the face of it, there's no comparison.
But I'd imagine you'd get another few quid off the Leaf.

Nissan really need to be dropping prices now to get rid of the current generation car, but most likely won't until the day the new mod l arrives.

Funny thing is, that both cars are not the prettiest, but I prefer the look of the Leaf. Tech is similar but the range of the ioniq is very much desired.

unkel

Soarer wrote: »

So Ioniq is ?25,500 + delivery and stuff.
And Leaf is ?26,840 + delivery and stuff.

Ioniq is €24.5k plus delivery and stuff (you are looking at a finance amount, this includes delivery)

And you're comparing it with the 24kWh Leaf. If you compare the 30kWh Leaf to the Ioniq which is fairer, and also include the 6.6kW charger, then the Leaf is €30.3k plus delivery and stuff. A whopping 25% more than the Ioniq!

But the Leafs still seem to be selling, in bigger numbers than Ioniq anyway. Maybe there are massive discounts available?

Discount on a Leaf ? doubt it.

I highly advise people to be aware of longer range electrics coming in 2018 and to think very carefully about buying any EV today, you'll have to wait several months now anyway for an Ioniq unless there is stock available.

Bif

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Discount on a Leaf ? doubt it.

I highly advise people to be aware of longer range electrics coming in 2018 and to think very carefully about buying any EV today, you'll have to wait several months now anyway for an Ioniq unless there is stock available.

Is there any info on Ioniq Mk2 release date?

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

I highly advise people to be aware of longer range electrics coming in 2018 and to think very carefully about buying any EV today.

Of course. Improvements will continue to happen. If you can wait, wait. That said, I can't see any manufacturer coming with something the size of the Ioniq, but with a significantly improved range, for the likes of €25k any time soon. Not before the end of next year, and that's a very long time away...

goz83

unkel wrote: »

Of course. Improvements will continue to happen. If you can wait, wait. That said, I can't see any manufacturer coming with something the size of the Ioniq, but with a significantly improved range, for the likes of €25k any time soon. Not before the end of next year, and that's a very long time away...

Time passes quickly. Sure they advertise some movies 2 years away now :eek:

In 2018, Hyundai are to release the 200 mile (360klm) Ioniq BEV into the market. I had originally heard late 2017, so maybe it will be early-mid 2018. That wouldn't be at all surprising when you consider what else is coming on the market with more range. The price will still have to be very reasonable....it is a Hyundai after all....going onto the market around the same time as that delicious Tesla we are all talking about

In the mean time, i'm delighted with my little Leaf and the I welcome the newer gen models, because it only makes the current ones cheaper and will convert more people to EV.

unkel

The Tesla Model 3 isn't coming here until well into 2019 I believe? And the current Ioniq was well late (here and even later in the USA), I've no doubt the new one will be late too. Can't see that happening at all in early 2018.

Agreed though, bring it all on! :cool:

Soarer

unkel wrote: »

Ioniq is ?24.5k plus delivery and stuff (you are looking at a finance amount, this includes delivery)

And you're comparing it with the 24kWh Leaf. If you compare the 30kWh Leaf to the Ioniq which is fairer, and also include the 6.6kW charger, then the Leaf is ?30.3k plus delivery and stuff. A whopping 25% more than the Ioniq!

But the Leafs still seem to be selling, in bigger numbers than Ioniq anyway. Maybe there are massive discounts available?

There you go with your Ioniq bias again! :rolleyes:

The Ioniq price I gave is less scrappage.
The Leaf price I gave is less scrappage. And if you'd looked at the attachments, you'd have seen I included the 30kWh battery and the 6.6kW charger!

So the comparative prices I gave are realistic.

cros13

Bif wrote: »

Is there any info on Ioniq Mk2 release date?

Some time around Q2 2018 with an announcement in Q1.

Soarer wrote: »

There you go with your Ioniq bias again! :rolleyes:

The Ioniq price I gave is less scrappage.
The Leaf price I gave is less scrappage. And if you'd looked at the attachments, you'd have seen I included the 30kWh battery and the 6.6kW charger!

So the comparative prices I gave are realistic.

The Ioniq is better equipped for the money as well with the exception of the lack of a leather interior.

unkel

Soarer wrote: »

There you go with your Ioniq bias again! :rolleyes:

The Ioniq price I gave is less scrappage.
The Leaf price I gave is less scrappage. And if you'd looked at the attachments, you'd have seen I included the 30kWh battery and the 6.6kW charger!

So the comparative prices I gave are realistic.

???

From your own links:

Ioniq is €28.5k minus €4k scrappage, so €24.5k. Same as before.
Leaf (30kWh) with 6.6kW is €30.3k minus scrappage (is there scrappage?)

(both plus delivery and options, minus any further discount)

Soarer

unkel wrote: »

???

From your own links:

Ioniq is ?28.5k minus ?4k scrappage, so ?24.5k. Same as before.
Leaf (30kWh) with 6.6kW is ?30.3k minus scrappage (is there scrappage?)

(both plus delivery and options, minus any further discount)

My previous reply to your post should've had a not a :rolleyes:. Wasn't being a dick!

And I can see where the confusion is. The Leaf attachment doesn't include the scrappage. It doesn't include it for some reason, which is why I clarified it in my text. So the Ioniq is post scrappage, the Leaf one is pre scrappage.

So without much haggling, you'd get the 30kWh 6.6kW charger Leaf for the same price as the Ioniq. Only things (I think) the Leaf has over it is the cold pack and leather?
Ioniq seems the way better option with it's extra range, unless you can get an extra few grand off the Leaf.

unkel

You reckon you can get the 30kWh Leaf with 6.6kW (€30.3k plus delivery, metallic) for about €25k-€26k on the road? That's a big discount alright!

My gut feeling says you're probably right about the discount, but do you have any more on this or is it just your gut feeling too?