Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

Soarer

KCross wrote: »

And they also suffer from different brake feeling when the traction control/ABS kicks in. Its actually quite disconcerting.... you could be breaking to come to a stop and regen is at max and if you hit a bump which activate the ABS it causes the regen to completely disengage leaving you with just physical force to stop the car and it feels like the car is lurching forward and you have to put extra pressure on the pedal to compensate for the regien disengaging. Maybe the Ioniq has the same system in place?..... i.e. ABS activated causes regain to disengage.

That happens in our Prius too.

Quick foot off the brake and back on again, and tis grand.

unkel

Mope wrote: »

Enjoyed driving it on back roads a lot!

Yes in fairness the car does drive very well on the back roads, twisties, mountains etc. Haven't hammered it but I guess that's not what the car is for. Once the roads are dry and you don't throw the car into corners, torque steer is barely there and there are no traction problems. I do drive with regen level 2 most of the time (level 1 or 0 on motorways), perhaps that helps my braking compared to you guys not using any regen?

The weight and the low centre of gravity must help it a lot and I can't say I'm having any issues with the simpler (inferior) torsion beam rear suspension

@thelikelylad - get the bloody night meter!

Mope

After me driving one week with Regen 1 or 2 and switching for a week of driving on 0 - it is hard to come back to drive with any type of Regen. There is always this feeling that car is attached to some rubber bands. I think car actually drives worse with regen on. Try it yourself.
Drive on a constant speed manually, switch regen on one by one to 3, then go back - you will feel how car slows down when you go up levels even if you keep your accelerator pedal depressed same level.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

And for the record, I feel pulse & glide is an anti-social habit (because it is selfish) that should not be used on the public roads. I'd go to far as to say it is annoying at best to other road users, some would say it is dangerous.

How's that ? you obviously don't know how it works and the conditions which are very favourable to using this form of driving. It does not mean driving in a manner that is dangerous or annoying to others.......

There are plenty of driving conditions where pulse and glide works brilliantly, and the Ioniq.

Anyone driving the Ioniq with 0 regen is doing exactly the same thing it just makes it much easier to do because you don't have to find the neutral position on the throttle.

Mope

Mope wrote: »

I second that, to me pulse and glide is nonsense which should not be used on public roads. I could never do it myself and would hate a fella in front of me slowing down and accelerating again and again.

Again, another person who fails to understand the idea of pulse and glide, why do people think pulse and glide means driving in a manner that is dangerous or annoying ? do people really not get that there are plenty of driving conditions perfectly favourable to pulse and glide ?

Again, the Ioniq does this naturally in regen mode 0 !!!!!

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Brake performance is barely adequate in my view. It's a heavy car and should have better brakes. That said, I'm coming from a long line of much higher-end cars where brake performance was obviously better. Perhaps the brake performance of the Ioniq is normal for the class / price range of the car.

You feel 90 Kw of regen is inadequate ? with friction brakes to take over when this is not enough ? :rolleyes:

Mope

Mope wrote: »

I second that, to me pulse and glide is nonsense which should not be used on public roads. I could never do it myself and would hate a fella in front of me slowing down and accelerating again and again.

That's quiet contradictory to the below statement !

0 regen setting in the ioniq is identical to using pulse and glide in a Leaf or Prius !!!!!

Pulse and glide means coasting and using the motor to push you again and then using 0 regen to coast......

In any regen mode in the Ioniq you can use pulse and glide mode. In max regen setting, use the throttle to adjust regen strength, variable regen, this is the way it should be done on the flappy paddle and not presets.

In 0 regen mode pressing the brake should engage regen, at least I hope it does. I don't remember.

Mope wrote: »

After me driving one week with Regen 1 or 2 and switching for a week of driving on 0 - it is hard to come back to drive with any type of Regen. There is always this feeling that car is attached to some rubber bands. I think car actually drives worse with regen on. Try it yourself.
Drive on a constant speed manually, switch regen on one by one to 3, then go back - you will feel how car slows down when you go up levels even if you keep your accelerator pedal depressed same level.

thelikelylad

Mope wrote: »

After me driving one week with Regen 1 or 2 and switching for a week of driving on 0 - it is hard to come back to drive with any type of Regen. There is always this feeling that car is attached to some rubber bands. I think car actually drives worse with regen on. Try it yourself.
Drive on a constant speed manually, switch regen on one by one to 3, then go back - you will feel how car slows down when you go up levels even if you keep your accelerator pedal depressed same level.

^ This.

0 + Sports Mode is quite nice. Throw it into a corner and pull for more regen and then pull to 0 regen on exit and put the boot down.

Mope

Deleted User wrote: »

That's quiet contradictory to the below statement !

0 regen setting in the ioniq is identical to using pulse and glide in a Leaf or Prius !!!!!

Pulse and glide means coasting and using the motor to push you again and then using 0 regen to coast......

In any regen mode in the Ioniq you can use pulse and glide mode. In max regen setting, use the throttle to adjust regen strength, variable regen, this is the way it should be done on the flappy paddle and not presets.

In 0 regen mode pressing the brake should engage regen, at least I hope it does. I don't remember.

Let's clear one thing here.
Pulse & glide on a flat surface is what I think is nonsense to do on public road and would cause frustration. Regardless of technicality of it - in essence you accelerate to 65/60 or what ever and let car roll until it drops few km/h, repeat. - That I understand as Pulse & Glide.

If you refer to Gliding from a hill down using 0 regen - of course I do it coz you do not loose (or loose very little) speed.

I never glide with 0 on flat. Always keep same speed.

BoatMad

Evd-Burner wrote: »

Early Thursday morning in Turvey (donabate, Dublin).

I use bank card as it pulls out of the wallet easier

I will have a chat with ecars technical , he informed me this loophole was basically closed , hmmmm

Mope

Deleted User wrote: »

You feel 90 Kw of regen is inadequate ? with friction brakes to take over when this is not enough ? :rolleyes:

is that how much braking power IONIQ is applying via reduction before friction kicks in? Source? I am amazed if this is true. I actually do use Reg lvl 3 in 60% of times to slow down instead of using brake pedal, just feels better :]


The only issue is - Brake lights DO NOT turn on on any level of Regen. I think Hyundai should fix this as potentially I can be rear ended by someone on a phone.

BoatMad

Mope wrote: »

is that how much braking power IONIQ is applying via reduction before friction kicks in? Source? I am amazed if this is true. I actually do use Reg lvl 3 in 60% of times to slow down instead of using brake pedal, just feels better :]


The only issue is - Brake lights DO NOT turn on on any level of Regen. I think Hyundai should fix this as potentially I can be rear ended by someone on a phone.

Personally I like high re-gen and one pedal driving , I'd prefer to never have to use the brake and I find in the leaf I don't use it until the last few metres.

I agree re brake lights , these should activate ,

Also when the batteries fill the lack of regeneration is disconcerting

thelikelylad

I was complaining about the friction brakes originally. I feel they are poor at lower speeds or coming to a stop when the regen cuts off. Braking with regen is fine.

Mope wrote: »

The only issue is - Brake lights DO NOT turn on on any level of Regen. I think Hyundai should fix this as potentially I can be rear ended by someone on a phone.

Are you serious?!?! I haven't tested this, I just assumed they would come on. Braking on regen level 3 is fairly strong. Thanks for the heads up.

Mope

BoatMad wrote: »

Personally I like high re-gen and one pedal driving , I'd prefer to never have to use the brake and I find in the leaf I don't use it until the last few metres.

Is it even if you are back road or M50, M4 and etc? I just feel that car is not going as fast as it would be with regen off. Feels like you need to spend more Battery energy to get to 50km/h than with Regen 0.

Or is it just a feel? if it is just a feel - I like driving with one-pedal too :-]]]

Mope

thelikelylad wrote: »

I was complaining about the friction brakes originally. I feel they are poor at lower speeds or coming to a stop when the regen cuts off. Braking with regen is fine.



Are you serious?!?! I haven't tested this, I just assumed they would come on. Braking on regen level 3 is fairly strong. Thanks for the heads up.

Yes, I was shocked somewhat as well. I assumed they are On, but Not!
My wife was following me on Conor's Pass and Mol Gap and other very hilly sections where I would just switch from 3 to 2 and 3 again and she said not a single time lights came on where is she had to slam on brakes a lot + use lower gears.

thelikelylad

Mope wrote: »

Is it even if you are back road or M50, M4 and etc? I just feel that car is not going as fast as it would be with regen off. Feels like you need to spend more Battery energy to get to 50km/h than with Regen 0.

Or is it just a feel? if it is just a feel - I like driving with one-pedal too :-]]]

Yep, I feel this exactly.

You can still drive with one-pedal, you just need your hands occasionally for the regen paddles

Mope

thelikelylad wrote: »

Yep, I feel this exactly.

You can still drive with one-pedal, you just need your hands occasionally for the regen paddles

And that's exactly what I do :] If I see I need to stop - I just click and hold left paddle which goes from 0 to 3 straight.

cros13

Mope wrote: »

I still think torque is limited when you go off the line. It feels like something is holding the car and not letting it use all of it. (even in Sport mode)

Yes, software limited to prevent damage to the powertrain and you'd just spin the wheels if you got full power anyway....

BoatMad wrote: »

I will have a chat with ecars technical , he informed me this loophole was basically closed , hmmmm

Lucan is accepting any card as well.

Mope wrote: »

Yes, I was shocked somewhat as well. I assumed they are On, but Not!
My wife was following me on Conor's Pass and Mol Gap and other very hilly sections where I would just switch from 3 to 2 and 3 again and she said not a single time lights came on where is she had to slam on brakes a lot + use lower gears.

That's a bit dangerous. On the i3 the brake lights come on if you pull ~0.3G deceleration via regen. I still had one guy who'd been beside me in particularly gentle stop and go traffic pull beside me to tell me my brake lights weren't working.

Fiery mutant

Are you sure that is true regarding the regen and brakes. Because I remember testing this soon after I got mine driving home one night, and the brake light on the back door definitely illuminated.

unkel

I thought I read somewhere that it should come on, but haven't had the chance to check it myself. It would be fairly unsafe it they didn't come on at regen level 3

Deleted User wrote: »

You feel 90 Kw of regen is inadequate ? with friction brakes to take over when this is not enough ? :rolleyes:

Barely adequate. No need for the :rolleyes:, I'm just used to (older) cars a few levels up, with superior performance / brakes. For me the Ioniq is a step down in many ways. Not complaining, very happy with the car, knew what I was getting. Just some things are a bit better and some things a bit worse than I was expecting.

n97 mini

unkel wrote: »

Barely adequate. No need for the :rolleyes:, I'm just used to (older) cars a few levels up, with superior performance / brakes. For me the Ioniq is a step down in many ways. Not complaining, very happy with the car, knew what I was getting. Just some things are a bit better and some things a bit worse than I was expecting.

Shudda gotta Leaf! Twin pot callipers at the front and vented discs on the rear. Both a first for me. I wonder did Nissan take them from the Skyline parts bin

Mope

Fiery mutant wrote: »

Are you sure that is true regarding the regen and brakes. Because I remember testing this soon after I got mine driving home one night, and the brake light on the back door definitely illuminated.

Well, I am more then willing to have someone test it on their and tell me, but when wife was driving behind me she said it never blinked even once and I rarely touched brakes, only regen 2-3

I noticed on my test drive in the Ioniq that the brake lights do not come on under regen which is a major design flaw, how do I know this ? because I can see the road signs light up in the dark as I press the brake pedal and they didn't light up under regen only even on max regen, this is an accident waiting to happen.

Mope

Mope wrote: »

is that how much braking power IONIQ is applying via reduction before friction kicks in? Source? I am amazed if this is true. I actually do use Reg lvl 3 in 60% of times to slow down instead of using brake pedal, just feels better :]

85-90 Kw , this is shown on the energy monitor. The Leaf shows 30 Kw max regen, which is still more than enough, but perhaps you need to back off the accelerator a lot further.

It doesn't matter the regen level, pressing the brakes does the same thing, it activates regen.

sgalvin

Under "normal" use I find I don't need to use the brake pedal above 10km/h Accelerator pedal covers 70kW drive / 35 kW brake.

Brake light only seems to come if regen >15kW continuously for over 1 second.

Which is probably the same as shifting down one gear in a manual car.

Mope

Mope wrote: »

Let's clear one thing here.
Pulse & glide on a flat surface is what I think is nonsense to do on public road and would cause frustration. Regardless of technicality of it - in essence you accelerate to 65/60 or what ever and let car roll until it drops few km/h, repeat. - That I understand as Pulse & Glide.

If you refer to Gliding from a hill down using 0 regen - of course I do it coz you do not loose (or loose very little) speed.

I never glide with 0 on flat. Always keep same speed.

Pulse and glide originated from the days of the MK II Prius. And it worked up to 74 Kph, therefore people automatically assumed people who do this are blocking the streets failing to realise there is plenty of traffic conditions that dictate driving at these speeds and slower.

In the Leaf and Ioniq it works at all speeds, so it can no longer be assumes that pulse and glide means driving at slow speeds.

In the Ioniq it works a lot easier because you don't have to find neutral on the throttle.

So again, pulse and glide means to coast using energy consumed and then to use the motor for more power, the trick is to use as little regen as possible.

Mope

My issue with this technique is not the speed someone travels in (and I do not think it is dangerous as you said before I think). My issue is when this is done on a flat surface going from 40km/h to 60 and gliding to 40km/h, again going to 60km/h... I hope my point is clearer now

Driving with traffic flow without braking unnecessary - this is how everyone should drive

Mope

Mope wrote: »

My issue with this technique is not the speed someone travels in (and I do not think it is dangerous as you said before I think). My issue is when this is done on a flat surface going from 40km/h to 60 and gliding to 40km/h, again going to 60km/h... I hope my point is clearer now

Driving with traffic flow without braking unnecessary - this is how everyone should drive

I see absolutely no issue with this if conditions dictate this kind of driving.

The only reason pulse and glide works on a BEV is because your average speed is lower doing it. On ICE vehicles there is a maximum efficiency somewhere close to where the maximum torque of the engine is generated at power lever just under the full throttle enrichment. This is especially true for turbo charged petrol engines. With pulse and glide (but only if the engine shuts down during the glide) you can yield improvement in consumption using it while maintaining the same average speed than at lower constant speed.

The only condition where pulse and glide is useful in EV is if you let the speed drop at uphill sections and then coast down the hills on the other side to lessen the power draw and regen as the internal resistance of the cells heats up battery at high loads and avoiding extremes increases the battery efficiency. Smooth lower constant speed it the winner otherwise.

zilog_jones

Mope wrote: »

Yes, I was shocked somewhat as well. I assumed they are On, but Not!
My wife was following me on Conor's Pass and Mol Gap and other very hilly sections where I would just switch from 3 to 2 and 3 again and she said not a single time lights came on where is she had to slam on brakes a lot + use lower gears.

I'm not sure why people are so shocked by the brake lights not activating when using regen - engine braking is nothing new . You should never assume the car in front is not slowing down just because the brake lights aren't on.

With my previous ICE cars I used pretty aggressive engine braking when desired, as it is quite efficient in modern cars with electronic fuel injection (essentially when in gear, no throttle = no fuel being used). At somewhere like Moll's Gap I would have been mostly sticking to 2nd/3rd gear in a 5 speed manual.

Evd-Burner

zilog_jones wrote: »

I'm not sure why people are so shocked by the brake lights not activating when using regen - engine braking is nothing new . You should never assume the car in front is not slowing down just because the brake lights aren't on.

This isn't a matter of if it's going to cause a serious accident, it's a matter of when! At least 2 or 3 times a week there is rear ending on the M50, people drive far to close and don't have time to react, actively slowing down without break lights showing will further reduce the driver behinds reaction time, especially in the morning when some people are driving half asleep!

unkel

But as zilog_jones says, braking without the brake lights showing is nothing new. Back in the day we were trained to do this particularly in mountains as the friction brakes of the time weren't able to take the heat. That said, I'm driving well over 30 years now.

I guess most of the younger drivers never used engine braking

Evd-Burner wrote: »

This isn't a matter of if it's going to cause a serious accident, it's a matter of when! At least 2 or 3 times a week there is rear ending on the M50, people drive far to close and don't have time to react, actively slowing down without break lights showing will further reduce the driver behinds reaction time, especially in the morning when some people are driving half asleep!

They should all buy Ioniqs then, no chance of ear ending someone. Car won't let it happen

stesaurus

There should be a minimum regen force which applies the brake lights, stupid if not as it's just a software fix. The i3 definitely has it, i've been fond of engine braking for a while before moving to an EV so I never really like to use the brakes. My wife was following me one night while I was in the i3 and she gave out to me for constantly tapping the brakes, said it was extremely annoying to drive behind. I explained I hadn't touched the brakes and that it had to be the regen kicking the brakes in.

samih

samih wrote: »

The only reason pulse and glide works on a BEV is because your average speed is lower doing it.

Actually , it's a combination of speed, and more to do with the fact you are consuming 0 energy , 0 energy from the battery and 0 energy to the battery. No power or regen. You're using momentum to continue until you need power again and not using regen because regen isn't very efficient.

From the MK II prius days , people have the perception from watching youtube videos that this is the way Prius drivers drive all the time when in fact they created the videos specifically to show the technique in action so it can be used when conditions permit.

As I keep saying, there are plenty of driving conditions where pulse and glide works perfectly.

Any time a Ioniq driver is in 0 regen mode when they lift the throttle is in pulse and glide mode all the time !!!

Leaf drivers can also use this at any speed but it's more difficult because we have to specifically find Neutral on the throttle.

Ioniq drivers in regen mode 1, 2 and 3 can also find neutral on the throttle , this is shown on both the Leaf and Ioniq energy monitors where 0 energy is flowing to the batter or the motor. You're coasting.

Think about it, you put the ioniq in 0 regen mode and lift the throttle, you immediately feel how far you can coast using 0 energy. Now use regen and you feel the drag, well that drag is energy being consumed and only part of it goes back to the battery.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Think about it, you put the ioniq in 0 regen mode and lift the throttle, you immediately feel how far you can coast using 0 energy. Now use regen and you feel the drag, well that drag is energy being consumed and only part of it goes back to the battery.

huh, The only energy being consumed is the rolling resistance ( in total both ground an air resistance ) and the inefficiency of the generation system and battery charging efficiency , while this are measurable it doesnt amount to more ten about 10 %, the rest goes into the battery

unkel

Pulse & glide is fine as long as there is nobody on the road behind you. If there is, it is anti-social road behaviour.

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

Pulse & glide is fine as long as there is nobody on the road behind you.

I cant understand why anyone drives like this , whats the point

unkel

It's a hypermiling technique. It will give you more range as it is more efficient than driving at a constant speed. I'm not a fan of this technique on the public road, to put it mildly.

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

huh, The only energy being consumed is the rolling resistance ( in total both ground an air resistance ) and the inefficiency of the generation system and battery charging efficiency , while this are measurable it doesnt amount to more ten about 10 %, the rest goes into the battery

Yes rolling resistance and wind resistance are the greatest consumers at that point, but there's not a lot the driver can do about that but they can control the amount of energy that's wasted by regen.

BoatMad

but they can control the amount of energy that's wasted by regen.

wasted , how so, do you mean by adjusting the regen effect

unkel

unkel wrote: »

It's a hypermiling technique. It will give you more range as it is more efficient than driving at a constant speed. I'm not a fan of this technique on the public road, to put it mildly.

No, as I keep saying but falling on deaf ears or blind eyes is the fact that this technique is suitable for many driving conditions and I don't understand why people feel this is irritating or annoying to other road users.

If I'm in traffic and traffic slows down and I don't have to use regen for extra braking then I will cost using the energy I've already consumed, and press the throttle for some power if I need it and coast then again if I don't need it using as little regen as possible while keeping with the flow of traffic.

Other situations such as going down a descent where I need no power and if I need extra braking I'll lift off the throttle a bit more and adjust the regen strength I need then find neutral again and coast some more while maintaining my speed not dropping it unless I need to, again keeping with the flow of traffic or if there is no traffic then who cares.

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

wasted , how so, do you mean by adjusting the regen effect

There are losses associated with regen and regen can not recover much energy unless going down long steep hills due to wind resistance and rolling resistance.

Nissan quote about 30% efficiency due to the majority of losses as described above. They might have increased this a bit with the updated gen with their magic "B" mode but this is really only useful going down hills due to the fact you don't have to press the brake pedal.

Maybe mine and Mad_Lad's understanding to pulse and glide is different. My understanding is that you use the engine in bursts to bring the vehicle in speed and then let it coast back to some random speed after which you bring it up to speed again.

What you explain Mad_Lad to me sounds like driving economically by reading the road ahead.

The first one does absolutely nothing to EV efficiency but increases the MPG for ICEs. And annoys the hell out of other road users. The second one is just good driving imo and definitely will lead to a better efficiency on any vehicles including EVs.

samih

samih wrote: »

My understanding is that you use the engine in bursts to bring the vehicle in speed and then let it coast back to some random speed after which you bring it up to speed again.

No really no, the idea is to maintain the speed using power already consumed, or let it increase without needing to brake or use power. And yes, you can cost to the point your speed drops if you need it to drop.

Letting speed drop to the point you need more power to build up speed again will use more energy.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

No really no, the idea is to maintain the speed using power already consumed, or let it increase without needing to brake or use power. And yes, you can cost to the point your speed drops if you need it to drop.

Letting speed drop to the point you need more power to build up speed again will use more energy.

burst and drift works because of the very peaky torque curve of ICE engines, with EVs , the near flat torque curve, would render it a useless technique

grogi

BoatMad wrote: »

burst and drift works because of the very peaky torque curve of ICE engines, with EVs , the near flat torque curve, would render it a useless technique

It works in an Hybrid because by gliding the car can switch the ICE off and eliminating the pumping loses. Short pulse with optimal efficency and off, very efficient.

Not applicable to an EV at all. In an EV the only strategy is to avoid transforming energy as much as possibile (because that always introduces loses) - thus don't do regen if you don't need to.

liamog

So in theory does that mean that smart cruise control should lead to more efficient driving in an EV because the speed will be maintained at a constant rate?

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

burst and drift works because of the very peaky torque curve of ICE engines, with EVs , the near flat torque curve, would render it a useless technique

What's a useless technique ?

Water John

A useless technique, is trying to change Mad Lad's mind on an issue.