Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

listermint

KCross wrote: »

So, to cut to the chase here.... your max daily distance is 180km (45x2 commute plus 50km sports +kids taxi service)... Yes?

And you believe the current Ioniq is insufficient to cover those 180km?

I think what some here are trying to get across to you is that the current Ioniq is capable of covering that with some to spare. Obviously the extended range model would be better but you will probably be waiting more than 12mths to get that and its likely to be more expensive than the current model.

Why wait and pay more if the current car can do it now?

This indicates their max daily was 90+50 which is 140KM not even the 180. so im confused.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

Ehh I said basic commute. I also travel between sites on regular occasion. As well as the sports trips for myself would add 50 km at times, ignoring child requirements. Sorry that I didn't go into my daily tasks in detail for you, especially when there is a larger capacity around the corner

Deleted User wrote: »

I said my basic commute (that's to and from regular work) so factoring dropping kids back, then doing the same run again to get back to city for training would double that up to twice a week

listermint wrote: »

This indicates their max daily was 90+50 which is 140KM not even the 180. so im confused.

basic commute plus other stuff "would double it up" he said.... so max daily is 180km.

The figures aren't clear but I think we are getting there!

It still seems do-able to me in the Ioniq and that kind of mileage everyday is quite large so the savings would be huge there. Seems like he is doing 50k km per year. I wouldn't be waiting for the longer range EV to come out. I'd jump now and the savings would be €2500-€3500 on fuel depending on what type of car he has now. Thats a good holiday paid for.

unkel

I paid a bit over eur25k for mine on the road including mats and metallic paint, scrapping a 14 year old banger that had only a few weeks nct left and was uneconomic to put through the test (so basically was worth about eur50)

Soarer

Deleted User wrote: »

I said my basic commute (that's to and from regular work) so factoring dropping kids back, then doing the same run again to get back to city for training would double that up to twice a week

So doing 90km just for my most basic drive, before I add in more means a smaller pack is not enough.

Dude, you'd want to take note of what people on here are telling you.

You've thrown up a few different scenarios, each one adding more mileage to your daily driving, and each time you're being told that the current Ioniq will exceed your needs. And that's excluding any chargepoint you might pass on your travels, or work installing a chargepoint, or even charging for 20 minutes at home when you drop the kids back.

Worst case range on a current Ioniq is 200kms.
Start from there and subtract your worst case journeys.
If you exceed that 200kms regularly, then the Ioniq isn't for you.
If you infrequently exceed that 200kms, then it mightn't be for you. It'll depend on chargepoints.
If you rarely/never exceed that 200kms, then the Ioniq is definitely for you.

They're the basic maths people are talking about. Don't be so defensive. People aren't trying to put you wrong.

Water John

I honestly think, Exile, you are better waiting. You have varied distances each day and may take you up near the limit of the present car, without getting a top up at some point, in the day.
I don't think you are willing to make the changes to your lifestyle to let you do it in comfort.

No criticism, but I think it doesn't suit you, at this particular time.

Water John

Water John wrote: »

I honestly think, Exile, you are better waiting. You have varied distances each day and may take you up near the limit of the present car, without getting a top up at some point, in the day.
I don't think you are willing to make the changes to your lifestyle to let you do it in comfort.

No criticism, but I think it doesn't suit you, at this particular time.

Basically yes. I'm not comfortable with the potential remaining at the end of a heavy day. All I asked was the range, didnt need "do the maths" condescending comments.

I don't need to explain every kilometre I do on here. I know my potential travel distance.
It's not quite there for me yet.

listermint

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Basically yes. I'm not comfortable with the potential remaining at the end of a heavy day. All I asked was the range, didnt need "do the maths" condescending comments.

I don't need to explain every kilometre I do on here. I know my potential travel distance.
It's not quite there for me yet.

Asks for help gives bad information gets help and is annoyed at the help.


Thanks son. Xxx

Soarer

Deleted User wrote: »

Basically yes. I'm not comfortable with the potential remaining at the end of a heavy day. All I asked was the range, didnt need "do the maths" condescending comments.

I don't need to explain every kilometre I do on here. I know my potential travel distance.
It's not quite there for me yet.

As you'd say yourself, bollox.

You came here looking for advice, and only gave half the relevant info. I dare say you'd be the first back on here bitching and moaning if we told you buy it and it didn't suit.

People can only give an educated answer if they have all the information. So yeah, if you want the correct answer, you have to "explain every kilometre I do on here". Otherwise we're just guessing, and that's not fair on you.

thelikelylad

thelikelylad wrote: »

If you're serious about an Ioniq and can get one in your hands pretty quick then I'd go for one straight away. It's the best thing on the market right now for >€30k. If I was buying now and had to wait 4 - 6 months for delivery then I would probably hold off though. You could wait for Leaf 2 but if you're going to wait until January 2018 then I think you'd be better off just waiting for the bigger battery Ioniq or Kona when they supposedly come out in 2018.

Trouble with EVs is there isn't really a "right time to buy" at the moment as the industry grows. There will be always something bigger and better coming out.

Unfortunately it would cost me to get out of the Leaf contract. So it would be cheaper to wait until my lease is up in January.

I could negotiate a cheaper rate and extend the lease another while, unless I get at least twice the range of the 24 Kwh Leaf I wouldn't be bothered changing and I'll keep it another year.

unkel

Sounds like a good solution for your needs mad lad. You can live with your current very limited range because of work charging and it should save you lots of money compared to starting another lease contract

Any idea what it would cost per month to extend for a year?

Or could you buy it out right, how much would that cost? Cheap Leaf would probably ideal for you as a second car eventually having a 7 seat EV as your main car

No Idea the cost to extend the lease but If I intend to keep it another 6 months to a year then I want to lease it based on it's real value and not on the GFMV or they can stuff it.

Yeah it would be cheaper to keep it and I wouldn't have to fork out for another deposit. I'll have to wait and see in December.

goz83

Deleted User wrote: »

No Idea the cost to extend the lease but If I intend to keep it another 6 months to a year then I want to lease it based on it's real value and not on the GFMV or they can stuff it.

Yeah it would be cheaper to keep it and I wouldn't have to fork out for another deposit. I'll have to wait and see in December.

I'd be surprised if you didn't end up buying it, considering that it won't be asking you for much doh.

Na don't want to put much more into it to be honest. I do want to get rid of it for the right EV.

unkel

As you've said yourself many times, the right EV for you (a 7 seater with a long range) won't be around for some time. A cheap Leaf would be perfect for your needs until then, like the one Goz bought for eur 5k. Almost zero depreciation on a car like that and the almost zero running costs you are used to. Save all that rental money until the right EV is there for you and you can buy one out right!

Mope

My absolute best efficiency on the car driving regurarly, without thinking about it was yesterday. Trip back home from Tallaght to Lusk - 8.7kWh/100. Dear lord!

I haven't charged my car 3 days now with 42km one way trip! Came to work and still have, if not mistaken, 50+ range left. Should come back home no problems

I see you guys were busy writing... 10+ pages... Strange enough though, on phone it says 260pages, on PC its 208 pages, did someone remove 50pages?

Dont be at yourself

Jaysus that's impressive! I normally average out around 13kWh/100km, but I drive it like I'm late for mass, always in sport mode!

Mope

I was shocked myself as I was not hypermiling or looking at how I drive... just usual commute 4.50 PM on M50 to Lusk with the traffic. So its anywhere from 40kmh to 120km. I am not sitting in slow lane at 70-80 as a lot of non EV drivers think we all do

Regular driving! As you see my morning drive is always 12.5-13.5 as Im going 6.55 AM so roads are not clear but not congested either so its roughly almost always between 100 and 120kmh

Dont be at yourself

Funnily enough I actually did a similar run yesterday afternoon (Sandyford to Rush via the m50) -- must check my efficiency and see how we compare!

unkel

unkel wrote: »

As you've said yourself many times, the right EV for you (a 7 seater with a long range) won't be around for some time. A cheap Leaf would be perfect for your needs until then, like the one Goz bought for eur 5k. Almost zero depreciation on a car like that and the almost zero running costs you are used to. Save all that rental money until the right EV is there for you and you can buy one out right!

Ah yeah but wanting to keep the Leaf is another matter entirely

I got a few options to consider come January.

stesaurus

You know you could hand back your Leaf now under the half rule. OK no equity but are you expecting any come January?

unkel

322 km range on Dublin motorways at motorway speed :eek:

man_no_plan

unkel wrote: »

322 km range on Dublin motorways at motorway speed :eek:

Dublin motorway speed is usually pretty low though!

Quick question please -

Which fast chargers on the eCars map will work with the ioniq?

Combo DC 45kW is it only?

Mope

select CSS (Fast) and Type 2 (slow) and you are sorted

thelikelylad

Mope wrote: »

select CSS (Fast) and Type 2 (slow) and you are sorted

Also if you are stuck and near a dual CHAdeMO + FastAC unit then you can use the FastAC points too but you'll only be able to charge at 7kW so there's no advantage of using one over an SCP. Handy if you are stuck somewhere or if the CCS is acting up on a triple unit and you need a few % to get to the next point.

stesaurus

stesaurus wrote: »

You know you could hand back your Leaf now under the half rule. OK no equity but are you expecting any come January?

Yes I could because I've no value in it anyway for deposit as I wasn't really expecting any in the first place and one reason I went on PCP because it's suffered more depreciation than Nissan calculated so their problem only this time around they made sure that on PCP the same wouldn't happen again by massively increasing monthly payments and dramatically lowering the GFMV so there's no advantage on Nissan PCP today unless they change this in January who knows, if the interest is low enough though it could be a cheap loan.

I could just extend the leas another year based on it's value at the time and not the GFMV and lower the payments.

CarefulNow!

Mope wrote: »

select CSS (Fast) and Type 2 (slow) and you are sorted

Charge time for slow?

Soarer

Think it pulls 7kWh/h.

unkel

So I was driving a brand new Renault Captur for the last 2 weeks as a rental. Not a bad car, looked funky, drove ok. Frugal. Medium spec level with sat nav, auto wipers, etc. But it was a diesel, although it sounded not that bad for a diesel. And manual, very slow (90BHP and 200Nm supposedly but it wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding - and no, I did not have it in ECO mode which is even worse). Air conditioning performance was very poor. Also very small, we could not fit our luggage in the boot by a long shot. Kids had several bags and suitcases under their feet. Space for 3 kids was very, very tight.

Ioniq is at least a full class bigger, with twice the luggage storage, much, much faster and a far superior spec. Cheaper to maintain and cheaper to tax. And of course near zero fuel costs. Drives better too.

And here's the clincher. Above Captur (manual) is listed here in Ireland at €23k plus delivery and extras. The Ioniq (automatic) is listed at €24.5k (using scrappage) plus delivery and extras. Now I'd say you can get a better discount negotiated on the Captur, but these very similar list prices are unbelievable stuff really!

KCross

unkel wrote: »

And here's the clincher. Above Captur (manual) is listed here in Ireland at €23k plus delivery and extras. The Ioniq (automatic) is listed at €24.5k (using scrappage) plus delivery and extras. Now I'd say you can get a better discount negotiated on the Captur, but these very similar list prices are unbelievable stuff really!

Depends on what you mean by "unbelievable".
The big difference is the €10k of subsidy the Ioniq has. It looks more realistic then.

unkel

Of course. But the funny thing is that nobody seems to want to take this massive subsidy, which allows you to get a bigger, better car. For about the same total cost of ownership, even allowing for substantially higher depreciation of the EV (which might or might not happen)

That's the bit I do not understand. I guess it's because people aren't aware of this.

ELM327

CarefulNow! wrote: »

Charge time for slow?

I'd believe it's about 4-4.5 hours (7kW*4hours would give 28kWh less the AC losses)

Soarer wrote: »

Think it pulls 7kWh/h.

7kWh/w/h/kw/kwhhw?

(Sorry, I couldn't resist channelling my inner "boatmad"):cool:

positron

unkel wrote:

Of course. But the funny thing is that nobody seems to want to take this massive subsidy, which allows you to get a bigger, better car. For about the same total cost of ownership, even allowing for substantially higher depreciation of the EV (which might or might not happen)

Its like mp3 players. First few would suck, then a few will be okay and slowly Joe Public will notice and then one day it will like iPod - expensive fashion statement that everyone will buy at any cost.

I really want to buy an EV, but jist waiting to see Leaf 2, and Hyundai's response. I definitely buying one.

unkel

Aye, I suppose there are also a lot of people like yourself, who are fully aware of all this, but the EV is not quite there for them or you are (rightly) expecting better range vehicles that won't cost much more than say an Ioniq today are only a year or so away

The one big risk though is if the €10k subsidy will still be there. I gladly took it with 2 hands. In fact I would not have bought Ioniq without the subsidy. But imho it is overly generous and not the most efficient use of public resources to promote EV ownership.

If I were in government I'd take away the €5k subsidy, but keep the €5k VRT discount (in fact I'd make all EVs completely VRT free) and motor tax and tolls zero. That would mean you could not get an Ioniq for under €30k. And an upgraded one, once Hyundai realise that they don't need to do scrappage anymore because demand is higher than supply), well north of €35k

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Of course. But the funny thing is that nobody seems to want to take this massive subsidy, which allows you to get a bigger, better car. For about the same total cost of ownership, even allowing for substantially higher depreciation of the EV (which might or might not happen)

That's the bit I do not understand. I guess it's because people aren't aware of this.

On top of the €10k subsidy there is also the €4k scrappage which the Renault doesn't have either so there is a huge difference in price between the cars.

Your point that the reality is they are the same price to the end customer and they still are not buying proves that it is going to take some stick as well as carrot to make the transition and more choice.... not everyone will be happy with a hatchback or a small EV like Zoe or a 4-seater i3 etc. The choice is p*ss poor.

unkel

A lot of carrot costs a lot of money and doesn't seem very effective. And a lot of stick is unfair when there is little EV choice. Catch 22

If only they made the motor tax and tolls zero. I know it would make people in Ireland listen (even though it makes no rational sense). It's a measure that costs very little money and might just be the nudge EVs need.

liamog

unkel wrote: »

A lot of carrot costs a lot of money and doesn't seem very effective. And a lot of stick is unfair when there is little EV choice. Catch 22

If only they made the motor tax and tolls zero. I know it would make people in Ireland listen (even though it makes no rational sense). It's a measure that costs very little money and might just be the nudge EVs need.

I think those two measures plus a sliding increase in excise on dino juice are a good idea.
Slowly make petrol/diesel uneconomical and give people the quick bragging rights for tolls and motor tax.

unkel

Pretty much. "Slowly" is the operative word. Things won't change fast here. If only we didn't have the ridiculously cheap tax on diesels (cheap excise, cheap VRT, cheap motor tax)

In Norway they started off with expensive ICE cars. Very easy to leave them be expensive and make EVs cheap. Anyone want to change their Ford S-Max 7 seater for a same price 7 seater Tesla model S or model X? Easy choice there

I think the point about it is that the majority of people don't care about ev and know a diesel car will do them just fine and they're 100% willing to pay for it.

People won't choose a car based on its environmental impact.

bipedalhumanoid

KCross wrote: »

On top of the €10k subsidy there is also the €4k scrappage which the Renault doesn't have either so there is a huge difference in price between the cars.

Your point that the reality is they are the same price to the end customer and they still are not buying proves that it is going to take some stick as well as carrot to make the transition and more choice.... not everyone will be happy with a hatchback or a small EV like Zoe or a 4-seater i3 etc. The choice is p*ss poor.

Just my 2c. It seems to me there is still a lot of ignorance about the cars still. Most people I come across aren't even aware of the subsidies or the potential savings. Also, the potential savings are hugely reduced if you don't have a decent size commute. There isn't much to be gained in running cost savings if you live 6km from your office.

I still find myself having to explain to people that EVs are not slow, that you're not going to run out of battery if you get stuck in traffic, that for 99% of your driving, they're more convenient than ICE vehicles due to home charging, and that there are huge potential savings.

I still get laughed at for owning one, even though I am demonstrably saving myself €4k/year in running costs. A lot of people don't reason from first principles. They just look at what is "normal" and laugh at what is not "normal". That's why there are still religions and it's why there are still ICE drivers.

There has been no education campaign by the gov. to explain what EVs are and who is a good candidate for one. For a long time I wondered why, and then recently a gov. spokesman admitted they were worried about the amount of tax revenue they'd lose if they hit their EV uptake targets.

It seems that what the government want is to give the impression that they are encouraging EV uptake without going so far as making it happen.

Education is key.

bipedalhumanoid

Deleted User wrote: »

People won't choose a car based on its environmental impact.

I agree with that assessment. I believe that's because of a concept callled collective responsibility. People don't feel as personally responsibility for the environment when nearly everyone is contributing as much as they are and are collectively responsible.

On the other hand, a lot of people are completely ignorant of the environmental benefits. How many times have you been asked "but where does the electricity come from?"

Dont be at yourself

Environmental impact had zero influence on my purchase decision. For me, it was down to value (thanks to the subsidies), convenience (home charging) and the innovation factor. And the torque.

Water John

I must be a strange animal. The environment was definitely in my view when we bought the Leaf. Not so much, the singular impact, but the overall requirement that we move to a carbon neutral economy, with EVs as part of the transport solution.
It's a long way from, in my younger days, burning the fertiliser plastic bags on the headland. To prevent them being unsightly and blowing away. Thought it was best option.

BoatMad

punisher5112 wrote: »

Worst part is one can travel at 50km/h

My 50cc scooter went nearly double that and wasn't allowed on the motorway...

There is NO miniumum speed limit on a motorway , yuh can drive as slow as you like

BoatMad

bipedalhumanoid wrote: »

Just my 2c. It seems to me there is still a lot of ignorance about the cars still. Most people I come across aren't even aware of the subsidies or the potential savings. Also, the potential savings are hugely reduced if you don't have a decent size commute. There isn't much to be gained in running cost savings if you live 6km from your office.

I still find myself having to explain to people that EVs are not slow, that you're not going to run out of battery if you get stuck in traffic, that for 99% of your driving, they're more convenient than ICE vehicles due to home charging, and that there are huge potential savings.

I still get laughed at for owning one, even though I am demonstrably saving myself €4k/year in running costs. A lot of people don't reason from first principles. They just look at what is "normal" and laugh at what is not "normal". That's why there are still religions and it's why there are still ICE drivers.

There has been no education campaign by the gov. to explain what EVs are and who is a good candidate for one. For a long time I wondered why, and then recently a gov. spokesman admitted they were worried about the amount of tax revenue they'd lose if they hit their EV uptake targets.

It seems that what the government want is to give the impression that they are encouraging EV uptake without going so far as making it happen.

Education is key.

Remember people laughed at early cell phone users.

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

Aye, I suppose there are also a lot of people like yourself, who are fully aware of all this, but the EV is not quite there for them or you are (rightly) expecting better range vehicles that won't cost much more than say an Ioniq today are only a year or so away

The one big risk though is if the €10k subsidy will still be there. I gladly took it with 2 hands. In fact I would not have bought Ioniq without the subsidy. But imho it is overly generous and not the most efficient use of public resources to promote EV ownership.

If I were in government I'd take away the €5k subsidy, but keep the €5k VRT discount (in fact I'd make all EVs completely VRT free) and motor tax and tolls zero. That would mean you could not get an Ioniq for under €30k. And an upgraded one, once Hyundai realise that they don't need to do scrappage anymore because demand is higher than supply), well north of €35k

gov is committed to vrt and SEAI grant fir lifetime of this Gov. In addition I expect to see BIK reductions for company EVs

punisher5112

BoatMad wrote: »

There is NO miniumum speed limit on a motorway , yuh can drive as slow as you like

Vehicle has to be able to do minimum of 50km/h

Its at every entrance to a motorway.

Alun

punisher5112 wrote: »

Vehicle has to be able to do minimum of 50km/h

Its at every entrance to a motorway.

Exactly. It has to be capable of 50km/h, but there is no minimum speed rather bizarrely.

Evd-Burner

bipedalhumanoid wrote: »

I still find myself having to explain to people that EVs are not slow, that you're not going to run out of battery if you get stuck in traffic, that for 99% of your driving, they're more convenient than ICE vehicles due to home charging, and that there are huge potential savings.

This my absolute pet hate! I've explained this to my dad 10 times over.

goz83

Evd-Burner wrote: »

This my absolute pet hate! I've explained this to my dad 10 times over.

Best way to explain is that the battery loses almost no power when stuck in traffic. It's like having your mobile phone switched on, but not in use. That's how I explained it to my brother.

bipedalhumanoid

BoatMad wrote: »

Remember people laughed at early cell phone users.

I skipped the brick with an aerial age of cell phone technology, but I'd probably be seen as an early adopter, since I had an analog Nokia in 1995.

They weren't laughing at me, it was more like anger and heartfelt insecurity. "Why do YOU need a mobile?" was the question back then. It was like everywhere I went I had to defend owning one.