Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

positron

Interesting car. Not a looker, but then again not many EVs are. I saw the FullyCharged review on Ioniq, and he was very positive over all.

I too would love an EV Estate but so far there's nothing like that being discussed anywhere.. would have thought it would make sense as an estate platform would have loads of room for a flat battery pack etc. Oh well, must be the weight and cost of battery.

BrendanD

Dont know if its been posted yet but

US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) released its official fuel economy rating for the new 2017 Hyundai Ioniq Electric, the Korean automaker’s first all-electric car, and it took the first spot as the most efficient car rated by the agency – dethroning the BMW i3.

HERE

Fiery mutant

Got mine ordered yesterday, will be collecting January 3rd. Can't wait.

BrendanD

Am thinking of buying one too just looking up the range this is what i found.

Model: Hyundai Ioniq Electric Premium
Price: £24,495 (including Govt. grant)
Engine: Electric motor, lithium-ion batteries
Transmission: Single-speed auto, front-wheel drive
Power/torque: 119bhp/295Nm

0-62mpg: 10.2 seconds
Top speed: 103mph
Range: 174 miles
CO2: 0g/km
On sale: Now

174 Miles looks a lot better than the Leaf ?.

unkel

BrendanD wrote: »

174 Miles looks a lot better than the Leaf ?.

Not a hope of anywhere near 174 miles

From your own link to the EPA page: it uses 25kWh per 100 miles. So that's about the range. 100 miles. Not bad 160km, but no where near that 280km...

The Renault Zoe 40 Kwh 210-280 kms, the lower Km would be driving quiet hard.

Nothing beats Zoe for range and charging at this time, noting affordable.

cros13

unkel wrote: »

Not a hope of anywhere near 174 miles

From your own link to the EPA page: it uses 25kWh per 100 miles. So that's about the range. 100 miles. Not bad 160km, but no where near that 280km...

I wouldn't be that pessimistic. Sure, 280km is taking the proverbial, but the Ioniq's EPA rating is 200km. Most Irish EV drivers tend to beat the EPA rated range in normal driving.

who_ru

Deleted User wrote: »

The Renault Zoe 40 Kwh 210-280 kms, the lower Km would be driving quiet hard.

Nothing beats Zoe for range and charging at this time, noting affordable.

It looks awful though, both inside and out.

Seriously ? certainly doesn't look awful, it's unfortunately got a Renault badge on it.

However I'm not a fan of Renault interiors at all. It doesn't have that ultra bright dash any more either which helps.

kala85

What does the cold pack on the leaf give you.

Does the iqonic have fast charging like the 6.6 kwh charger on the leaf as standard.

Cold pack gives you heated seats front and rear, heated steering and heated mirrors, not sure if the heated mirrors are standard.

Ioniq has 7 Kw charger standard. But I do caution about getting one right now, Hyundai have said more range is on the way but at what cost is unknown so if the current range suits you then go for it if you like it.

Leaf is rather old now.

cros13

The higher capacity battery for the Ioniq will not be available for at least 12-14 months. And it will be more expensive.

If the range suits you now (and unless you have a ~200km commute like me, it does) I'd go right ahead.

shedweller

cros13 wrote: »

The higher capacity battery for the Ioniq will not be available for at least 12-14 months. And it will be more expensive.

If the range suits you now (and unless you have a ~200km commute like me, it does) I'd go right ahead.

Or wait till the bigger one comes out and the existing one will be cheaper???
Wishful thinking maybe..hehe

grogi

shedweller wrote: »

Or wait till the bigger one comes out and the existing one will be cheaper???
Wishful thinking maybe..hehe

Residuals of used will drop almost instantaneously, but it will take a while for the prices of new-yet-small battery to be reduced.

positron

Doing further research on this model, read somewhere that Ioniq comes with 5 year unlimited mileage warranty and a 8 year 125000 miles warranty on battery (not sure about the exact details).

I was wondering what would really happen after say 5-8 years. Battery technology would have moved forward, and lets assume battery prices drops by 50%. How likely is it that a Ioniq (or a current LEAF) owner could replace the old battery with a newer, cheaper one with longer range without changing anything else in the car?

KCross

positron wrote: »

Doing further research on this model, read somewhere that Ioniq comes with 5 year unlimited mileage warranty and a 8 year 125000 miles warranty on battery (not sure about the exact details).

I was wondering what would really happen after say 5-8 years. Battery technology would have moved forward, and lets assume battery prices drops by 50%. How likely is it that a Ioniq (or a current LEAF) owner could replace the old battery with a newer, cheaper one with longer range without changing anything else in the car?

You will of course be able to buy a new battery from Hyundai. Whether they will provide a battery with increased range or not is anyones guess. Its not in their interest to give you a longer range battery. They will want you to buy a new car.

Nissan dont allow you to upgrade to the longer range battery today(24-->30). I believe BMW do, but open to correction on that.

So, how likely?... no one knows... 50/50 chance maybe.

Water John

I would suspect if the makers won't facilitate the early adopters by allowing them battery upgrades, then spurious options will become available.

grogi

Water John wrote: »

I would suspect if the makers won't facilitate the early adopters by allowing them battery upgrades, then spurious options will become available.

The question is always a cost.

Retrofitting battery with higher density might require not only reprogramming the electronics of the car, but also additional liquid cooling for the battery.

The cost of the whole operation, which will be labour intensive, might render it insensible. It simply might be cheaper to sell the current car and buy a newer one...

Water John

Reading on Toyota this morning. Talking of a more efficient battery which will need less cooling. Also, the battery you take out has a residual value for storing electricity. Swings and roundabouts.

It's highly unlikely you'd loose 50% capacity after 5-8 years.

It's entirely possible to fit a newer higher capacity battery if they want to, however if the electronics need to be changed then this would most likely make it too expensive though things like chargers and BMS which to make a long story short is what controls the battery and these are usually reprogrammable if they need to be.

Heat would most likely be a non issue, for instance , lets say you have a 60 AH battery and you double energy density and you now have 120 Ah.

If the 60 AH battery could take a 2C charge rate this would be 120 amps.

For a 120 Ah battery this 120 amps now becomes a 1C charge rate or 240 Amp charge becomes 2C and so on.

So, for the same chemistry, fast charging a battery with double the capacity should hardly warm it at all.

The same applies to discharge rates though batteries are usually rated for much higher discharge currents.

Other factors such as internal resistance come to play also which is how efficient a battery is at moving energy around the higher the resistance the more inefficient it will be.

I would imagine the need for cooling would be for hot climates or for batteries that may pack a lot of energy and are packed close together perhaps.

In Ireland we have more a need for warming batteries in winter because batteries can't store as much energy when cold , this is where you do need cooling because if you heat the battery to 20 Deg C and blast down the road and fast charge 3 times it will be pretty toasty.

galwaytt

Deleted User wrote: »

Seriously ? certainly doesn't look awful, it's unfortunately got a Renault badge on it.

However I'm not a fan of Renault interiors at all. It doesn't have that ultra bright dash any more either which helps.

...but you have no problem driving a Renault with a Nissan badge ? Sorry, that makes no sense at all........

positron

Cheers, I agree that it's not in Hyundai's interest to give upgrade options, and I can see similarities to tyring to upgrade hard disk and memory in a 4-5 year old laptop - probably doable but often a new laptop will make better sense.

PS: Turns out there's at least one third party company selling LEAF battery / upgrade pack.

galwaytt

galwaytt wrote: »

...but you have no problem driving a Renault with a Nissan badge ? Sorry, that makes no sense at all........

LOL Don't put words in my mouth.

I said the problem with the Renault is the badge, I didn't say it's a problem for me........

What I actually meant was the problem for Zoe itself is the Renault badge....

BoatMad

grogi wrote: »

The question is always a cost.

Retrofitting battery with higher density might require not only reprogramming the electronics of the car, but also additional liquid cooling for the battery.

The cost of the whole operation, which will be labour intensive, might render it insensible. It simply might be cheaper to sell the current car and buy a newer one...

The replacement with like for like is very straightforward , any handynan could do the exchange themselves. As leafs age there will be a considerable market in after market batteries as a replacement would rejuvenate the car

isnottheword

positron wrote: »

Cheers, I agree that it's not in Hyundai's interest to give upgrade options, and I can see similarities to tyring to upgrade hard disk and memory in a 4-5 year old laptop - probably doable but often a new laptop will make better sense.

You could be right but I'm *hoping* there will be sufficient used Leafs around to make it worthwhile for a third party to tackle battery upgrades. I get your laptop analogy - only difference is the capital costs involved. A car is a capital intensive item - many multiples of a laptop. Again, I could be completely wrong - but lets see.

At worst, there will be a residual market for an old Leaf that has lost capacity - for someone who just wants it to scoot around town (the price-point being cheap at that point). Otherwise, I'd be hopeful that the car could be rejuvenated with a modestly priced replacement battery from Nissan (i.e. not the current unreasonable replacement cost) when the time comes.

unkel

A replacement battery costing €5k now might only cost €2.5k in 5 years time, but the 10 year old Leaf will only be worth around that.

Nobody in their right mind* is gonna spend €2.5k on a €2.5k car if that only makes it worth €3-€4k

More likely that a third party will be able to commercially "fix" batteries by replacing some dodgy battery modules - as people have already successfully and cheaply done - DIY! - on their Lexus hybrids. For a few hundred rather than a few thousand

*except Mad_Lad

Water John

But if a rebooted (new battery) Leaf went for another 7 years, isn't that the measure of its value to you, not the market sale price prior to rebooting.

Hoping batteries come at 3.5K. Lets say the residual value of the old battery covers the mechanical work and some more.

That is 3.5 divided by 7 = €500/year.

LOL,

well you could be right, however , electrics are not like ICE's, that 2.5K will make an excellent car, sure you'll get suspension problems etc and as long as the body is good there will be a market for cheap cars.

As batteries improve they will last years and most likely the life of the car.

Water John

Water John wrote: »

But if a rebooted (new battery) Leaf went for another 7 years, isn't that the measure of its value to you, not the market sale price prior to rebooting.

Hoping batteries come at 3.5K. Lets say the residual value of the old battery covers the mechanical work and some more.

That is 3.5 divided by 7 = €500/year.

Lets hope Nissan remain committed to offering batteries for the Leaf and possibly all their future electrics if needed.

kave2

Hi everyone, test drove Ionic ev yesterday. Quite impressed tbh. Few things I miss are front parking sensors, half leather seats would be nice, heated steering wheel and blind spot monitoring. Just want to verify few things that dealer told me.

Range is around 250km in city. Purely motorway around 170-180km. Are these figures accurate?

Is the charging point outside of the house is installed for free by esb? And then public charging is free too? How long is that going to stay free?

How long does the car keeps the charge? For example if I leave it on airport for 2 weeks, will there still be charge left?

Thanks a lot.

isnottheword

kave2 wrote: »

Range is around 250km in city. Purely motorway around 170-180km. Are these figures accurate?

If provided by the manufacturer or the dealer, then most likely not. As with the exaggeration of mpg figures by ICE manufacturers, same applies with EV's.

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

A replacement battery costing €5k now might only cost €2.5k in 5 years time, but the 10 year old Leaf will only be worth around that.

Nobody in their right mind* is gonna spend €2.5k on a €2.5k car if that only makes it worth €3-€4k

More likely that a third party will be able to commercially "fix" batteries by replacing some dodgy battery modules - as people have already successfully and cheaply done - DIY! - on their Lexus hybrids. For a few hundred rather than a few thousand

*except Mad_Lad

It doesn't matter what Nissan do. Third party packs will be available and the lead battery can be upgraded in pack units

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

It doesn't matter what Nissan do. Third party packs will be available and the lead battery can be upgraded in pack units

"Will be" you must have polished that crystal ball.

By the way , where's your battery report ?

BoatMad

[Deleted User] wrote: »

"Will be" you must have polished that crystal ball.

By the way , where's your battery report ?

Just like you can buy replacement engines and replacemebt iPhone batteries there no reason to suspect you will not be able to get third party battery packs in the future if the demand exists for then. There is no technical reason to prevent it.

Report soon , just haven't got around to it. Will try and pull one Sunday

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

Just like you can buy replacement engines and replacemebt iPhone batteries there no reason to suspect you will not be able to get third party battery packs in the future if the demand exists for then. There is no technical reason to prevent it.

If demand is there and there are reputable companies who offer good warranties and don't go bust.

It's actually not a difficult task provided it's a like for like replacement and there's no tinkering with charger and BMS parameters.

I would hope Nissan remain committed to battery replacements if required.

fricatus

Took a look at the EV version in a showroom the other day. Lovely looking car, bigger than I expected. The interior is really nice too - way better than the pictures seem to suggest. I was impressed that it has adaptive cruise and lane assist, but there are definite compromises there in the name of weight-saving and efficiency, such as no option for electric seats or leather. Also disappointing that they don't offer scrappage against it at all, whereas they seem to for the rest of their range. Still, if I had the money, I'd take it over any manual oil- burning jeep!

Fiery mutant

Look around, I got dcrappage when I ordered mine. There seems to be some mad pice differences around various dealers, so look around and you'll find one.

unkel

fricatus wrote: »

Also disappointing that they don't offer scrappage against it at all

I thought I read on their website they offer €4k scrappage?

Edit:

Hyundai.ie: up to €5,000 scrappage, Offer Applies to the i10, All-New i10, i20, i30, New Generation i30, ix20, i40, IONIQ Regular Hybrid, IONIQ All Electric, Tucson & Santa Fe

And select the Ioniq EV, then it says: €4,000 Guaranteed Scrappage Bonus


That dealer was either lying to you or there was a serious mis communictation. Which dealer was it?

fricatus

unkel wrote: »

I thought I read on their website they offer €4k scrappage?

Edit:

Hyundai.ie: up to €5,000 scrappage, Offer Applies to the i10, All-New i10, i20, i30, New Generation i30, ix20, i40, IONIQ Regular Hybrid, IONIQ All Electric, Tucson & Santa Fe

And select the Ioniq EV, then it says: €4,000 Guaranteed Scrappage Bonus


That dealer was either lying to you or there was a serious mis communictation. Which dealer was it?

Hmmm... it was Boland's in Waterford. It had to have been a mistake, since I can't imagine anyone deliberately trying to hide something that's in black and white on their own website. Anyway, that's cool, thanks lads!

unkel

At €28.5k plus metallic, plus delivery, the Ioniq is seriously overpriced. At €23k-€24k cash all-in (or a bit higher on finance) they have a much better chance to get some sales in

Seriously over priced with all that kit ? really ? I wouldn't have thought so.

unkel

If you think that a Leaf is €20k cash, then €28.5k looks like a lot. I know it has a better battery and more gimmicks and should easily sell for more than the Leaf. But not 40% more...

unkel

unkel wrote: »

If you think that a Leaf is €20k cash, then €28.5k looks like a lot. I know it has a better battery and more gimmicks and should easily sell for more than the Leaf. But not 40% more...

20 K cash for a 24 Kwh Leaf bog basic. Remember the leaf was 31K originally, then they reduced costs and brought 3 different specs.

How much is a 30 Kwh Leaf fully loaded ? ......

28 K for an Ioniq, Is that fully loaded ?

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

How much is a 30 Kwh Leaf fully loaded ? ......

€31.5k ... and the SVE 6.6kW 30kWh Leaf has less standard equipment than the Ioniq.

Deleted User wrote: »

28 K for an Ioniq, Is that fully loaded ?

Yup... basically one spec being imported.

Like I said, my only hesitation in picking the Ioniq over the Leaf would be ESB's lack of commitment to the CCS network.

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

€31.5k ... and the SVE 6.6kW 30kWh Leaf has less standard equipment than the Ioniq.



Yup... basically one spec being imported.

Like I said, my only hesitation in picking the Ioniq over the Leaf would be ESB's lack of commitment to the CCS network.

Thanks, so, far from being seriously over priced then.

You mean the ESB's lack of commitment to "any part" of the network ?

All the more reason to wait for a 60 Kwh EV, Far less dependence on the network.

kala85

Does the hyundai use an different charging system than the leaf

blackbox

Is anyone thinking about the Ioniq plug in hybrid?

.

unkel

kala85 wrote: »

Does the hyundai use an different charging system than the leaf

As in fast charging? Yes it does. It doesn't go with the "Japanese" CHAdeMO system but with the "European / American" CCS system

NIMAN

So when you come to a public charger, be it in Dublin or Derry, do they charge every single type of EV?

isnottheword

NIMAN wrote: »

So when you come to a public charger, be it in Dublin or Derry, do they charge every single type of EV?

You can check the network charge point map here as regards the standard of charging facilitated => LINK