Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning link in OP 20/3

bucketybuck

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Mata has been involved in 19 goals this season, either assisting or scoring them. Both Rooney and Martial have also been involved in 19 goals.

Ill sleep tonight knowing that we got Mata for the near enough the same price liverpool paid for Andy Carroll.

And my opinion is that he hasn't improved the club and we would have been just as well off sticking with Kagawa or any of the younger lads like Januzaj.

Players like Mata hiding when the going gets tough is a large part of the reason we are in this mess, had we kept that £37m I don't think we would be any worse off now.

bangkok

Cookie_Dough wrote: »

But he doesnt' need us

he likes the money though and we can afford to pay him it

Martypants1

Braindead decision by LVG to sign Bastian and expect him, 35 year old Carrick and Schneiderlin to cover 2 DM positions for all games this season.

Mitch Connor

Martypants1 wrote: »

Braindead decision by LVG to sign Bastian and expect him, 35 year old Carrick and Schneiderlin to cover 2 DM positions for all games this season.

The braindead decision was, imo, deciding on having 2 DM positions for most of the season.

Schneiderlin, Herrera, Mata. two wingers. one striker.

Adamcp898

bangkok wrote: »

just on depay, did anyone read his interview today?

The national team boss [Danny Blind, father of United team-mate Daley Blind] gives me a lot of support.
“He has confidence in me. And that makes me really grateful towards him.”
Asked if he still feels the same support and confidence in him at United, Memphis paused before saying: “Only sometimes.
“There are certain people within the club with whom I am talking about this,” said Memphis."

No harm to him, but he's looked out of his depth in the PL. So if he wants to start with immature, whinging "tell-all" interviews once he's off on international duty he's welcome to stay in Holland.

bangkok wrote: »

we need this guy....

Unfortunately he has many, many better options.

Rossi IRL

bucketybuck wrote: »

we would have been just as well off sticking with Kagawa or any of the younger lads like Januzaj.

Players like Mata hiding when the going gets tough

1st point: Debatable on Kagawa sure ill give you that but Januzaj hasnt showed enough and will probably be shipped off in the summer. Januzaj is probably 5th or 6th choice at this stage and that cant be blamed on Mata.

2nd point: Should Rooney still have been signed even though he went missing for a few months?

When the going got tough away to pool in the europa, Martial looked the most uninterested player on the pitch, should he also have not been signed?

Feels like people just like to hate on players for dam all reason when other players can do no wrong. This last part isn't directed at you either, its directed at a few people.

bangkok

Martypants1 wrote: »

Braindead decision by LVG to sign Bastian and expect him, 35 year old Carrick and Schneiderlin to cover 2 DM positions for all games this season.

we shouldn't need 2 dm's for every game this season. against the likes of villa or Norwich we should be playing 4-4-2 or 4-3-3, there should be only a handful of games or times that you need 2 dm's

StringerBell

We don't play with 2 dedicated DM's every game.

RobertKK

Hopefully Schweinsteiger's injury looks worse than it actually is. Will always be happy he has played for United, and will again when fit.

The media who talk about what Memphis wears, should look a themselves, nothing wrong with him wearing a hat that he did in the past, or what he was wearing in the latest photo. It is pretty sad for anybody to be looking for a reason to criticise a fellow human being for something that is doing no harm to anyone.

I would like Kroos, he is a great passer of the ball and would be a perfect replacement for Carrick, who whether he gets a new contract or not, is not getting any younger.

bucketybuck

Rossi IRL wrote: »

1st point: Debatable on Kagawa sure ill give you that but Januzaj hasnt showed enough and will probably be shipped off in the summer. Januzaj is probably 5th or 6th choice at this stage and that cant be blamed on Mata.

2nd point: Should Rooney still have been signed even though he went missing for a few months?

When the going got tough away to pool in the europa, Martial looked the most uninterested player on the pitch, should he also have not been signed?

Who knows where Januzaj or Kagawa would be if they had played instead of Mata over the past 2.5 seasons, or Nani if he had stayed and played on the right. Thats not the point though, pick whoever you want instead of him, I just don't think we would be much worse off if we'd had A.N Other there instead of Juan Mata.

That doesn't mean Mata is some scrub or a useless player, but he certainly didn't improve the club much and he certainly didn't meet the expectations.

I don't know what your point about Rooney is, sure he went missing at times but he also stood up to be counted when it mattered as well. Rooney made the club better, he was a force and an important player. Mata? He is just there, playing well when things are good but a non-entity when things around him aren't perfect.

Korat

Memphis' sponsors will be delighted with the publicity he has mysteriously generated by going to the airport wearing ...clothes.

Especially since he doesn't even get a game off the bench anymore as a football player.

His publicist couldn't have staged it better themselves... wait a minute! :eek:

Rossi IRL

bucketybuck wrote: »

Mata? He is just there, playing well when things are good but a non-entity when things around him aren't perfect.

Thats what it seems like for most of our current players though. I dont see why its only Mata getting it. Theres not much fight in the current team, when the going gets tough most of them seem to hide.

Strumms

bucketybuck wrote: »

That doesn't mean Mata is some scrub or a useless player, but he certainly didn't improve the club much and he certainly didn't meet the expectations.

He was signed and has played for us during a period of what is supposedly transition but what is more like a downturn considering what has happened from the time he was signed to where we are now. Considering all that has gone around him I'd find it difficult to be very critical of him outside of the team context anyway. He has had some very good games for us , MOTM performances, a good few goals and assists too. Yes he also has had games where he has been anonymous but those games more often than not are games where the team as a whole are ****e.

I can to a point see why maybe Jose didn't feel like he was his kind of player...He isn't great when called upon to defend, or even when it comes to winning back possession or breaking up play in the attacking half, he is pretty weak in the tackle it has to be said on that score and is a liability late on in games when he is getting tired and say we are defending a lead or under a bit of pressure and need everyone to get stuck in but I don't think it's a lack of effort or a case of going missing..

I like him overall though I think it's a shame he wasn't with us during a period when we were playing more confident attacking free flowing football. I think he would show more consistency and we would really see the best of him. Always would have liked to see him in a free role like Cantona used to have one off the striker, as stifled as anyone probably under the LVG regime.

Strumms

I'm not on the twitter machine but apparently United have released a short promo vid for their China tour. a lot of people commenting on the fact that it includes shots of players past as well as present but LVG nowhere to be seen at all yet he featured heavily in the one of the summer gone by... has to be a sign. :pac:

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/712248019622625280

bangkok

Strumms wrote: »

He was signed and has played for us during a period of what is supposedly transition but what is more like a downturn considering what has happened from the time he was signed to where we are now. Considering all that has gone around him I'd find it difficult to be very critical of him outside of the team context anyway. He has had some very good games for us , MOTM performances, a good few goals and assists too. Yes he also has had games where he has been anonymous but those games more often than not are games where the team as a whole are ****e.

I can to a point see why maybe Jose didn't feel like he was his kind of player...He isn't great when called upon to defend, or even when it comes to winning back possession or breaking up play in the attacking half, he is pretty weak in the tackle it has to be said on that score and is a liability late on in games when he is getting tired and say we are defending a lead or under a bit of pressure and need everyone to get stuck in but I don't think it's a lack of effort or a case of going missing..

I like him overall though I think it's a shame he wasn't with us during a period when we were playing more confident attacking free flowing football. I think he would show more consistency and we would really see the best of him. Always would have liked to see him in a free role like Cantona used to have one off the striker, as stifled as anyone probably under the LVG regime.

Jose is going to love Depay :pac:

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

Jose is going to love Depay :pac:

Imagine what he gonna think when he sees blind then..... A defender thats not great when it comes to defending and winning possession back....

brinty

bangkok wrote: »

Jose is going to love Depay :pac:

Jose will fcuking love Depay...
Robben mark II
But can use both feet

Flint Fredstone

bucketybuck wrote: »

Who knows where Januzaj or Kagawa would be if they had played instead of Mata over the past 2.5 seasons, or Nani if he had stayed and played on the right. Thats not the point though, pick whoever you want instead of him, I just don't think we would be much worse off if we'd had A.N Other there instead of Juan Mata.

That doesn't mean Mata is some scrub or a useless player, but he certainly didn't improve the club much and he certainly didn't meet the expectations.

I don't know what your point about Rooney is, sure he went missing at times but he also stood up to be counted when it mattered as well. Rooney made the club better, he was a force and an important player. Mata? He is just there, playing well when things are good but a non-entity when things around him aren't perfect.

Maybe we should not buy any more players just in case it turns out that they don't make much of a difference a couple of years down the line?

Liam O

jayo26 wrote: »

Imagine what he gonna think when he sees blind then..... A defender thats not great when it comes to defending and winning possession back....

Is this a joke? Blind is one of the best technical tacklers I've seen. Don't get why everyone's happy to fawn over Smalling and put down Blind's impact when Blind's been just as good this season. Was it Blind's horror show the other week that's changed opinions on him?

Jayop

Liam O wrote: »

Is this a joke? Blind is one of the best technical tacklers I've seen. Don't get why everyone's happy to fawn over Smalling and put down Blind's impact when Blind's been just as good this season. Was it Blind's horror show the other week that's changed opinions on him?

I've been hugely critical of Blind at CB for the entire season. He's a defensive liability and honestly he takes too many risks with his passing too that has caused us problems.

He's positionally completely unaware of where to be. He's too slow to recover when people beat him and he can't head the ball with any authority.

Juan8

I'm saying this a while myself for £37m Matas been a flop, Theres really no doubt about it, maybe flops a bit hard, but he hasn't been a success

jayo26

Liam O wrote: »

Is this a joke? Blind is one of the best technical tacklers I've seen. Don't get why everyone's happy to fawn over Smalling and put down Blind's impact when Blind's been just as good this season. Was it Blind's horror show the other week that's changed opinions on him?

Hey im sorry and it was a half hearted joke I don't believe Daley is that bad but his positioning does leave alot to be desired at times but yes smalling hasn't been perfect either he has been caught out a few times since xmass.

bucketybuck

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Thats what it seems like for most of our current players though. I dont see why its only Mata getting it. Theres not much fight in the current team, when the going gets tough most of them seem to hide.

I'd certainly give all our players a lot of leeway considering our present management, but there are still criticisms to be made and its certainly not a case of picking on Mata alone.

But he is the focus of this discussion and I do feel he has a case to answer. He is not a kid or a PL newcomer like some of his teammates, he was signed as an experienced title winning full international for big money and he should be treated as such. If anybody in that current squad should be expected to stand up and be counted its a senior player like Mata, but he has never done that for us.

Again, my point was that Jose knew why he wanted rid and we perhaps should have heeded that a bit more. Jose knew Mata's limitations, and unfortunately they were limitations that applied to us as much as they did to Mourinho's Chelsea.

Sometimes its too easy to say that we have been ****e so we can't judge players, the fact is that we need the players to stand up and help pull us out of this mire. Its clear now that people like Mata won't do that for us.

As an aside, does anybody think Fergie would have bought Mata? I can't think of a Fergie team that ever would have suited him?

TheDoc

I'll be having the last laugh when Memphis wins the Balon Dor for us and in his speech name checks me for keeping the faith.

Jayop

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'd certainly give all our players a lot of leeway considering our present management, but there are still criticisms to be made and its certainly not a case of picking on Mata alone.

But he is the focus of this discussion and I do feel he has a case to answer. He is not a kid or a PL newcomer like some of his teammates, he was signed as an experienced title winning full international for big money and he should be treated as such. If anybody in that current squad should be expected to stand up and be counted its a senior player like Mata, but he has never done that for us.

Again, my point was that Jose knew why he wanted rid and we perhaps should have heeded that a bit more. Jose knew Mata's limitations, and unfortunately they were limitations that applied to us as much as they did to Mourinho's Chelsea.

Sometimes its too easy to say that we have been ****e so we can't judge players, the fact is that we need the players to stand up and help pull us out of this mire. Its clear now that people like Mata won't do that for us.

As an aside, does anybody think Fergie would have bought Mata? I can't think of a Fergie team that ever would have suited him?

If he made space for Berbatov at the expense of Tevez and Rooney (up front) then you can be sure he'd have made room for Mata.

Giggsy11

Linked with James Rodrigues. According to Marca, Madrid wants to recoup the money paid for him and ManUtd are interested.

If we sign Jose then we will have even more Mendes clients.

Juan8

Jayop wrote: »

If he made space for Berbatov at the expense of Tevez and Rooney (up front) then you can be sure he'd have made room for Mata.

But Mata wouldn't fit in a Fergie team at all? where would be have played?

bucketybuck

Jayop wrote: »

If he made space for Berbatov at the expense of Tevez and Rooney (up front) then you can be sure he'd have made room for Mata.

But he didn't do that? Its quite a stretch to label Tevez and Rooney as getting shifted around to make space for him in the first place, but more to the point, he didn't make space for Berbatov. He took a punt and made the decision to buy Berbatov but although he got enough games Berbatov was never a fixture under Fergie, he never quite cemented a first team place and in the end couldn't even get past Micheal Owen for a spot on the bench in the CL final.

And thats for a striker. Where would Mata have played in any of Fergies teams? He certainly wouldn't have been on one of Fergies wings thats for damn sure.

Jayop

Berbatov played plenty and Mata is a much better player than he was. He could have played him where he should be played, as a second striker/No10.

Martypants1

Liam O wrote: »

Is this a joke? Blind is one of the best technical tacklers I've seen. Don't get why everyone's happy to fawn over Smalling and put down Blind's impact when Blind's been just as good this season. Was it Blind's horror show the other week that's changed opinions on him?

How many goals and chances has smalling directly contributed to?

Blind

Wolfsburg
Derby
West Ham
Liverpool

Smalling has been much better than Blind. Blind is a liability. Thankfully Mou won't be playing him there.

Juan8

Jayop wrote: »

Berbatov played plenty and Mata is a much better player than he was. He could have played him where he should be played, as a second striker/No10.

I don't think he is better tbh

bucketybuck

Jayop wrote: »

Berbatov played plenty and Mata is a much better player than he was. He could have played him where he should be played, as a second striker/No10.

Could have but wouldn't have, because those limitations Jose didn't like about Mata, Fergie wouldn't have stood for them either.

Jayop

Juan8 wrote: »

I don't think he is better tbh

Opinions. They're a funny thing.

I was never a fan of his so I wouldn't like to say I'm unbiased but for me Mata is clearly a superior player.

Jayop

bucketybuck wrote: »

Could have but wouldn't have, because those limitations Jose didn't like about Mata, Fergie wouldn't have stood for them either.

Limitations like those that Berbatov had yet Fergie burst the bank on?

How you don't see enough similarities between the criticisms aimed at both players to nulify your argument that Fergie would never have bought him is beyond me.


It's a hypothetical discussion and we'll never know the answer but to say Fergie wouldn't have bought him because he was too slow or didn't work back enough when Fergie spent 35m+ on a player who was lesser (imo) and much lazier than Mata doesn't stack up.

sReq | uTeK

Jayop wrote: »

Berbatov played plenty and Mata is a much better player than he was. He could have played him where he should be played, as a second striker/No10.

Much better player in your opinion. There are plenty what disagree. Plus your comparing apples to oranges. Two completely different players

Flint Fredstone

I've said this plenty in here but Mata is not the player you turn to in a struggling team. He shines when he has runners and people in space, he keeps it all ticking over when everybody else is doing their job and he's bloody good at it.

Think back to our best performances over the last couple of seasons and he is the standout player or close to it in those games.

deaddonkey15

Fergie bought Kagawa so it isn't inconceivable that he'd have bought a similar but significantly better player in Mata.

Jayop

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Much better player in your opinion. There are plenty what disagree. Plus your comparing apples to oranges. Two completely different players

But the complaints aimed at both players are very similar and that's what's being discussed. The assertion was that Fergie would never buy Mata because of the faults that Mourinho seen in him. I can only assume those faults were his pace, willingness to track back and workrate. Those are teh exact same things that people complained constantly about with Berba yet Fergie bought him. Hence why I'm bringing it up.

Flint Fredstone

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Fergie bought Kagawa so it isn't inconceivable that he'd have bought a similar but significantly better player in Mata.

Yeah, he probably wouldn't have figured out how to play Mata either though.

Jayop

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

I've said this plenty in here but Mata is not the player you turn to in a struggling team. He shines when he has runners and people in space, he keeps it all ticking over when everybody else is doing their job and he's bloody good at it.

Think back to our best performances over the last couple of seasons and he is the standout player or close to it in those games.

Yep. He needs to be played properly and have those around him played properly. When played centrally with Memphis and Depay either side of him he looked amazing. For some reason unknown to me we played some of the best winning football in 2 years for a few games and then changed it again for no good reason and went back to being ****.

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Fergie bought Kagawa so it isn't inconceivable that he'd have bought a similar but significantly better player in Mata.

Probably an even better example than Berbatov.

bucketybuck

Jayop wrote: »

Limitations like those that Berbatov had yet Fergie burst the bank on?

How you don't see enough similarities between the criticisms aimed at both players to nulify your argument that Fergie would never have bought him is beyond me.


It's a hypothetical discussion and we'll never know the answer but to say Fergie wouldn't have bought him because he was too slow or didn't work back enough when Fergie spent 35m+ on a player who was lesser (imo) and much lazier than Mata doesn't stack up.

Get hung up on "bought" if you want, do you think Mata was a Fergie player?

Does his purchase of Berbatov, a player that he subsequently left as a number 2/3 striker automatically mean that he would have been ok with a weak character like Mata? Would the fact that in the end he marginalised the slow and lazy Berbatov not suggest he would be unlikely to repeat that type of judgement.

Most importantly, I can see where he could play Berbatov, but where would Fergie play Mata? Its too simple to just say "number 10" because Mata wouldn't have worked at all as a number 10 in Fergies teams.

bucketybuck

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Fergie bought Kagawa so it isn't inconceivable that he'd have bought a similar but significantly better player in Mata.

Bought him. Did he play him?

Jayop

bucketybuck wrote: »

Get hung up on "bought" if you want, do you think Mata was a Fergie player?

Does his purchase of Berbatov, a player that he subsequently left as a number 2/3 striker automatically mean that he would have been ok with a weak character like Mata? Would the fact that in the end he marginalised the slow and lazy Berbatov not suggest he would be unlikely to repeat that type of judgement.

Most importantly, I can see where he could play Berbatov, but where would Fergie play Mata? Its too simple to just say "number 10" because Mata wouldn't have worked at all as a number 10 in Fergies teams.

2009 Champions League Final.

O'Shea Ferdinand Vidic Evra
Anderson Carrick Giggs
Ronaldo Mata Rooney

Yep, that would work for me.

Flint Fredstone

What has Fergie got to do with this anyway? He didn't play a system that was very accommodating to a Mata type player so who cares if he wouldn't have played him?

bangkok

Blind has been a great signing for us and has been pretty much forced to play in our back line for the majority of the season due to injuries of shaw, Jones and rojo and has done very well playing there.

Next season i would hope to see more of him as a deep lying play maker as he certainly has the passing attributes to do it

Flint Fredstone

bangkok wrote: »

Next season i would hope to see more of him as a deep lying play maker as he certainly has the passing attributes to do it

Can't see that happening under Jose. In fact I can't see very much game time for Blind anywhere under Jose.

Jayop

I honestly don't think Blind should be starting anywhere for us regularly. I'd be an advocate for keeping him around but for me he's nothing more than a slightly less Waterford J'OShea. Even to be a deep lying play maker you have to be able to do more than hit the odd hollywood pass. He's too slow and can't cover enough ground to play that role.

bucketybuck

Jayop wrote: »

2009 Champions League Final.

O'Shea Ferdinand Vidic Evra
Anderson Carrick Giggs
Ronaldo Mata Rooney

Yep, that would work for me.

Really? Because that was the type of system where I really couldn't see Mata doing everything the role required. Sure Ronnie and Rooney will be running around him for those little passes, but that role also requires far more workrate and physicality than I think Mata would have provided. Its one of the reasons Rooney played there so often.

jayo26

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Can't see that happening under Jose. In fact I can't see very much game time for Blind anywhere under Jose.

Would you not Think he would play blind in his matic role? I think he would be the closest player to matic we have and let's not forget his passing..

The thing with blind is he is so long been played out of position you forget he actually has quality.

bucketybuck

Jayop wrote: »

I honestly don't think Blind should be starting anywhere for us regularly. I'd be an advocate for keeping him around but for me he's nothing more than a slightly less Waterford J'OShea.

Couldn't agree more. He is a fine and versatile squad player who somehow plays every game at centre back, and when a proper manager comes in that experiment will end pretty damn sharp in my opinion.