Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning link in OP 20/3

Jayop

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Yup. I'd marked the last-32 as one tie rather than 2 games

Well I presume that it's going to be two legged.

Mitch Connor

Sure why are you wasting your time talking about CL changes. not like it is going to affect United! ;-D...... :-(

jayo26

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Sure why are you wasting your time talking about CL changes. not like it is going to affect United! ;-D...... :-(

They are also talking of extending the number of places on offer to each country.

Alf Veedersane

Jayop wrote: »

Well I presume that it's going to be two legged.

I'd assume so. I just copped where I got it wrong is all.

Jayop

jayo26 wrote: »

They are also talking of extending the number of places on offer to each country.

That makes no sense if they're reducing the number of teams int he actual comp proper to 16. It seems to me that by doing that and by having the pre-qualifier as a seeded game you're going to have very few games in the last 16 that aren't between the big sides in England, Germany, Spain, France and Italy already.

4 from England, Germany, Spain
3 from France and Italy

That's already 4 teams over the limit.

Alf Veedersane

Jayop wrote: »

That makes no sense if they're reducing the number of teams int he actual comp proper to 16. It seems to me that by doing that and by having the pre-qualifier as a seeded game you're going to have very few games in the last 16 that aren't between the big sides in England, Germany, Spain, France and Italy already.

4 from England, Germany, Spain
3 from France and Italy

That's already 4 teams over the limit.

It's likely they will have more than one pre-qualification round though so it's entirelyt plausible the new format won't require a reduction in teams that at least have a shot at getting to the CL proper.

The format is just going to be tweaked to ensure more high quality games, in theory, i.e. the 16 seeds playing amongst themselves regularly.

jayo26

Jayop wrote: »

That makes no sense if they're reducing the number of teams int he actual comp proper to 16. It seems to me that by doing that and by having the pre-qualifier as a seeded game you're going to have very few games in the last 16 that aren't between the big sides in England, Germany, Spain, France and Italy already.

4 from England, Germany, Spain
3 from France and Italy

That's already 4 teams over the limit.

Well that's it exactly what they want to do is get the teams from lesser countries out sooner the likes of Romanian and what not so they will prob have 3 seeded teams from the top leagues and at least 2 more going into the pre qualifications rounds so again the final 32 come along it should be better clubs playing for the final 16... That was my understanding of it anyway.

Korat

I'm sure they'd love to find a way of getting the Milan clubs back in the competition.

Jayop

If they want to go downt hat road then have 2 teams from each of the 5 big leagues straight in and leave the other 6 places up for grabs from the 3rd teams in the big leagues and everyone else.

Dutch, Portuguese and others all should have a better opportunity to get through given how much they've contributed to European football over the years.

Rayne Wooney

I like when smaller clubs make the group or latter stages and they seem to be trying to do away with that with these proposed changes just to make more money for the already established big clubs.

jayo26

Jayop wrote: »

If they want to go downt hat road then have 2 teams from each of the 5 big leagues straight in and leave the other 6 places up for grabs from the 3rd teams in the big leagues and everyone else.

Dutch, Portuguese and others all should have a better opportunity to get through given how much they've contributed to European football over the years.

Id love to see them giving the main cup winners a chance in the champs league. It would put the interest and all back into the fa cup.

Jayop

jayo26 wrote: »

Id love to see them giving the main cup winners a chance in the champs league. It would put the interest and all back into the fa cup.

That's up to the PL and not Europe though surely.

Korat

Go one better and just have a lottery for a Champions League place. That would be sooo exciting.

sky88

jayo26 wrote: »

Id love to see them giving the main cup winners a chance in the champs league. It would put the interest and all back into the fa cup.

ive never really like the idea of the cup winners going into the champions league as it can easily be a fluke win after an easy draw for a small team. Whereas a team that finishes 3rd or 4th deserves it after a season of good results.

Jayop

sky88 wrote: »

ive never really like the idea of the cup winners going into the champions league as it can easily be a fluke win after an easy draw for a small team. Whereas a team that finishes 3rd or 4th deserves it after a season of good results.

Sorry, but for me the team that wins the FA cup is much more deserving than the 4th best team in the league.

Korat

Jayop wrote: »

Sorry, but for me the team that wins the FA cup is much more deserving than the 4th best team in the league.

jayo26

Jayop wrote: »

That's up to the PL and not Europe though surely.

It would be up to premierleague in England because the premierleague has so much power so they would block it unless uefa decided that the 5th club should be a cup winner but in most other countries the fa controls the top league so they could decide it.

jayo26

sky88 wrote: »

ive never really like the idea of the cup winners going into the champions league as it can easily be a fluke win after an easy draw for a small team. Whereas a team that finishes 3rd or 4th deserves it after a season of good results.

I dont agree. I think if the champions league was a prize for winning the fa cup not many clubs would field a weakened team and the games would have alot more meaning to them.

Look at past winners of the fa cup in the last 30 year only 3 times has a weaker team won the cup. Wimbledon,pompey and Wigan you could argue Everton against us but they were a decent side but all were top flight teams.

Most other fa cup finals were won by a premierleague team that finished in top 6 or so of table so chances of it been a shock team would be slim.

Most fa cup finals are take affairs it would spice them up.

Jayop

Korat wrote: »

The past.....like what the FA cup was a proper competition that was held in as high a regard as the league. Yeah. I am.

IamtheWalrus

Jayop wrote: »

The past.....like what the FA cup was a proper competition that was held in as high a regard as the league. Yeah. I am.

But it's almost dead now. It was of its time. Football has moved on.

jayo26

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

But it's almost dead now. It was of its time. Football has moved on.

Seriously is that how you see football? I don't think many fans would agree be with you.

Yeh some will say the top four is more important then winning an fa cup I have said same myself but if champions league qualification was part of the prize the fa cup would be right up there again.

If we won it this year id be delighted would be great to win the FA Cup again.

Jayop

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

But it's almost dead now. It was of its time. Football has moved on.

Rubbish. As I said here before, if United get 4th this season I'll be glad and relieved. If we win the FA cup I'll probably go on the piss for the weekend.

4th place keeps the head happy
FA cup win keeps the heart happy.

I'm a football fan more for the heart than the head.

Billy86

The FA Cup is far less important than it used to be. But the FA Cup is far less important because of the CL. Making the FA Cup winner get a CL spot would do a lot to help it get back to where it was, but for a myriad of reasons that will never happen. Personally I would far prefer if every national cup winner got the 2nd CL spot after the league winner by default.

jayo26

Im with you on this one jayopee

StringerBell

zerks wrote: »

Off topic but I just turned on SSN,I don't think Rachel Wyse has copped that her clothes have become transparent under the studio lights.:p

I'm only seeing this now, so long shot, but.....pics??

Hotblack Desiato

jayo26 wrote: »

Most other fa cup finals were won by a premierleague team that finished in top 6 or so of table so chances of it been a shock team would be slim.

So they'd either have a CL place already, or would be in the hunt for one through the league anyway, so what's the point?

jayo26

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

So they'd either have a CL place already, or would be in the hunt for one through the league anyway, so what's the point?

Only twice in the past 10 years have the two finalist been top four teams.

Jayop

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

So they'd either have a CL place already, or would be in the hunt for one through the league anyway, so what's the point?

Apart from the top 1/2 teams no-one knows by the 4th round if they're going to be in the top 4. It would force teams to take the FA cup more seriously. It would probably in turn get more TV money and sponsorship so would regain it's prestige.

jayo26

StringerBell wrote: »

I'm only seeing this now, so long shot, but.....pics??

No pics sorry.

I heard rachel wyse is a united fan........ Threads on topic still yhhh???


OK..

Korat

A CL place for the winners isn't going to change the underlying reasons the FA Cup fell out of fashion. Doing well in the Premier League and the Champions league will always be more important than winning the FA Cup no matter how you dress it up.

It hasn't made the Europa League any more interesting. West Ham and Southampton didn't even bother with it, and judging by our performances neither did we.

Also it's ridiculous to reward a team who wins 6 games with a CL spot at the expense of one that has won 20 or more.

Rayne Wooney

International break came at a good time for us, a needed rest and a couple of players coming back in

jayo26

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

International break came at a good time for us, a needed rest and a couple of players coming back in

Not really most of the players are away on international duty they won't get any rest at all. Is good that a few injuries will be closer to returning alright.

Hotblack Desiato

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

International break came at a good time for us, a needed rest and a couple of players coming back in

Could be selective memory, but it seems to me this season we've gone into international breaks winning and come back from them losing

Dat gif tho

jayo26

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Dat gif tho

Terrible aint it.

Martypants1

Liam O wrote: »

If Blind was 3 inches taller nobody would have a problem with him at CB. The amount of times an attacker has him one on one and he comes out with the ball cleanly is fantastic and he is pretty good in the air all things considered. Him and Smalling work well together and their abilities compliment each other. Blind is very good with the ball in front of him, when he has to chase it not so much imo.

He has been very good this season, I don't know why people are trying to scapegoat him in recent weeks after 1 bad game. Especially since the likes of Schneiderlin and Herrera have been leaving massive gaps through the middle recently when played. Smalling had a blip recently, as did Blind but they've looked good the last couple of games again.

As I have said before, he is a liability. He's so slow for one. If you watched the 2nd liverpool game on setanta Pat Nevin showed a clip where he was up on the left wing, we lost the ball and he was jogging back while liverpool were on the break. Ball got crossed in where he should have been and Liverpool had a great chance.

West Ham at home he gave the ball away in possession at the back, led to a 1v1 and De Gea saved.

Derby his positioning and defenders instinct was non existent and it caused a goal.

Midgetland he dived in needlessly and it led to a goal.

Wolfsburg his marking on a free kick that should have been simple was amateur.

The amount of chances we give away is criminal.

Blind, Lingard, Herrera, Rojo, Schneiderlin (on this seasons form) shouldn't be starting.

Can't lose sight of where Utd should be, up there with Real, Barca etc.

If Dortmund and Atletico and Juve can get there on a budget we should be able get there with the resources we have.

RobbingBandit

Is Schweinsteiger the only victim of these friendlies so far?

bucketybuck

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Is Schweinsteiger the only victim of these friendlies so far?

I would be very confident Phil Jones picked up an injury as they were happening.

RobbingBandit

Just saying his name three times makes him injured. Bad time for friendlies but then again when is a good time other than never.

Mitch Connor

Was saying myself the other day that I thought cricism of Mourinho's youth policy was over egging the situation.

http://inbedwithmaradona.com/journal/2013/8/11/the-future-of-chelsea-look-to-inter-for-the-real-mourinho-legacy

yabadabado

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Was saying myself the other day that I thought cricism of Mourinho's youth policy was over egging the situation.

http://inbedwithmaradona.com/journal/2013/8/11/the-future-of-chelsea-look-to-inter-for-the-real-mourinho-legacy

The first comment fairly rips into the article. I have no idea which is true.

bucketybuck

yabadabado wrote: »

The first comment fairly rips into the article. I have no idea which is true.

Especially since that comment in turn claims that a young Ballotelli should have been given a "concrete" first team spot and the fact he wasn't shows Jose didn't buy into the youth.

Maybe he didn't, but I wouldn't judge that on anything to do with Ballotelli, thats for sure.

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

Especially since that comment in turn claims that a young Ballotelli should have been given a "concrete" first team spot and the fact he wasn't shows Jose didn't buy into the youth.

Maybe he didn't, but I wouldn't judge that on anything to do with Ballotelli, thats for sure.

Remember there being a lot of talk (and evidence) that Mourinho wanted to use Ballotelli, but his attitude and application weren't good enough. Getting sent off in a 'nothing' game when he was the only fit striker is one that sticks out in my mind.

Also, as I always say, youth changes are never immediate. If Mourinho made changes to the youth approach at Inter on his arrival in 2008, it makes sense that the fruition of those changes would not come til 2011 or 2012, even 2013 - having an older squad in 2009 or 2010 is no real indication one way or the other. If the youth system wasn't good enough when he arrived in 2008, it would be a bit crazy to think it would have been fixed in time to create a more youthful and homegrown within 2 seasons.

bucketybuck

You also have to come back to the same old point about priorities.

Accepting for a minute the hypothetical that Mourinho doesn't develop kids, he still won the treble at Inter. Would Inter fans rather have that treble season or a better youth team?

He didn't bring the kids through at Chelsea, would Chelsea fans rather have kids or the Premier league title he won last season?

If he came to United, bought senior players, won the PL and champions league within 3 seasons then left an aging team, would that success not be worth it?

Martypants1

bucketybuck wrote: »

You also have to come back to the same old point about priorities.

Accepting for a minute the hypothetical that Mourinho doesn't develop kids, he still won the treble at Inter. Would Inter fans rather have that treble season or a better youth team?

He didn't bring the kids through at Chelsea, would Chelsea fans rather have kids or the Premier league title he won last season?

If he came to United, bought senior players, won the PL and champions league within 3 seasons then left an aging team, would that success not be worth it?

Undoubtedly. The biggest thing Utd needs right now is a major trophy to show we can do it without Fergie.

We're going on 3 years without a trophy now. Don't get Mourinho and soon it could be 4,5,6 years. Then we're Arsenal seeing 4th as a good season.

It's even crept in this season. People would see 4th and an FA cup as a good season. As a Man Utd manager, getting 4th two seasons in a row has to be a sackable performance imo.

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

If he came to United, bought senior players, won the PL and champions league within 3 seasons then left an aging team, would that success not be worth it?

It would be a personal success but if you think United want sustainable success then leaving a solid core of players and a setup built to enable sustainable success is an important part of what is required of the next (or any) manager.

While i think LVG has been a disaster, I also think he was appointed with sustainability in mind - that he would help set up United like he helped Barcelona and Bayern Munich.

If he left a poorly set squad and set up, we'd potentially be right back to where it turned out we ended up when Fergie left. A squad of aging players, squad players and some maybe/potential/hopefully players.

Its one of the reasons I think we need a Sporting director, or similar - we need someone whose job it is to ensure the foundations the first team is built on are sustainable and that there is a coherent plan in place to ensure the makeup (in terms of talent and age) of the squad is continuously correct (through purchases and a high functioning youth set up.)

Vic Vinegar

A bit off topic but can someone recommend a good android box for watching stuff on? i saw a good few people on here mention them....

PM me anyway if you could to avoid unneccesary clutter. Ta

bucketybuck

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It would be a personal success but if you think United want sustainable success then leaving a solid core of players and a setup built to enable sustainable success is an important part of what is required of the next (or any) manager.

We really need to be realistic though, we are on a slippery slope right now and it would be folly for the board to ignore that because of some mission statement about sustainability. They have had two shots at sustainability and blew it, now its time for the safe choice.

Besides, I don't think its a given at all that Mourinho would leave a spent squad, I think its just as likely he buys into the clubs values and makes a real project of it, he might not always be a mercenary.

Martypants1

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It would be a personal success but if you think United want sustainable success then leaving a solid core of players and a setup built to enable sustainable success is an important part of what is required of the next (or any) manager.

While i think LVG has been a disaster, I also think he was appointed with sustainability in mind - that he would help set up United like he helped Barcelona and Bayern Munich.

If he left a poorly set squad and set up, we'd potentially be right back to where it turned out we ended up when Fergie left. A squad of aging players, squad players and some maybe/potential/hopefully players.

Its one of the reasons I think we need a Sporting director, or similar - we need someone whose job it is to ensure the foundations the first team is built on are sustainable and that there is a coherent plan in place to ensure the makeup (in terms of talent and age) of the squad is continuously correct (through purchases and a high functioning youth set up.)

We need to replace our midfield. Basti, Carrick are too old and need to be replaced. We do need a proper no.10 but it's a low priority given Martial can play striker.

We have no RW.
Our LW is in bad need of sorting out, Memphis will not make it and Young is average and ageing but yet signed to a 3 year deal.
Our backup RB is an ageing winger. Varela is not good enough.
We need a new CB, if not two. Jones has been injured all his life and Blind is not good enough - we've known we've needed a proper CB for two seasons.

So our squad isn't left in good shape.

---

DDG

---

----Darmian--Smalling---NEW CB--Shaw----

NEW RW---Schneiderlin---NEW CM-NEW LW

---

Rooney

---

---

Martial

---

We need 4 new top quality players this summer.

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

We really need to be realistic though, we are on a slippery slope right now and it would be folly for the board to ignore that because of some mission statement about sustainability. They have had two shots at sustainability and blew it, now its time for the safe choice.

Besides, I don't think its a given at all that Mourinho would leave a spent squad, I think its just as likely he buys into the clubs values and makes a real project of it, he might not always be a mercenary.

I agree.

Which is why I have long argued for two appointments.

Mourinho, and a Sporting Director - two people working in tandem on the football side to try arrest the current slide quickly, while also looking at positioning the club well for 5/10 years down the line.

And yes, i do think Jose would look to create his own dynasty at United, which requires forward planning.