Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning link in OP 20/3

Umaro

Lukaku does qualify as homegrown.

TheDoc

I think calling a definitive opinion on Lingard at this stage is a bit early. As mentioned he missed a lot of last season with injury, and has been part of an extremely unstable team this term.

Under normal circumstances, he would probably have more gentler introductions to the squad, playing in perceived easier ties and cup games. That he is starting so much is a reflection of our options on the right.

I thought he has actually impressed me more operating as a #10 in the last two outings. Granted it's flagging his dribbling as an issue, that is all stuff that can be improved. He is only like 23 or something. His work rate and explosiveness from deep is making that bit of difference(it also reminded me of how we really should have Di Maria doing this, sigh)

As I did with so many others, now that he has very much established himself in the team, for me he has two seasons to show what he can do. And at that point, three seasons in the first team squad, it's where I tend to take my stance on youth players who have come in. Bar the odd exception that are clearly brilliant, or clearly woeful. I'd probably put Martial in this bracket, even though he is a big money signing. We will see where his position develops, how his body copes after this seasons clear over use, and if he develops any injury patterns.

In a certain regard I'll probably give Memphis that time also, but he is such a clearly ridiculous talent established in first team football elsewhere, I'll give him the benefit of next season, before I really start to worry.

We have so many players in our squad that I'll afford that time to. But again it's coming back to where do, and should, my expectations lie?

If there is a clear directive of squad building, I can temper expectations that I shouldn't anticipate great things until 2-3 seasons down the line. But if the club are going to be billy big bollocks about trying to sign superstars, and say how we must always compete for titles and champions leagues, then I'm clearly going to form a different expectation, one of which, Lingard is not good enough to be playing for United, right now. That is not to say though, that he shouldn't be understudy to someone better, learning and developing.

Rayne Wooney

We need 3 or 4 starters to go straight into the team before worrying about squad players, with all players fit our best 11 still isn't good enough for what we want to achieve.

Polo_Mint

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

We need 3 or 4 starters to go straight into the team before worrying about squad players, with all players fit our best 11 still isn't good enough for what we want to achieve.

Thats our problem

if we buy 4 starters, How many will be on the pitch after September?

We are pretty much guaranteed a 50% injury rate

TheDoc

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

We need 3 or 4 starters to go straight into the team before worrying about squad players, with all players fit our best 11 still isn't good enough for what we want to achieve.

While a lot of our squad comes with the caveat of "potential" , I think getting our players performing close to their ceilings, will provide a very pleasant shock in terms of where our level actually is, with the current squad.

The trick is obviously picking the right 11, in the right formation and getting it all tick. But I think if we see it consistently, we could drastically change our opinions on how our squad and first IX looks.

While there has been a clear and present on the floor in terms of the team as a whole reaching their ability as individuals and a unit, the prospect of how a fully firing team would look, is a slight reason for optimism.

bucketybuck

TheDoc wrote: »

The trick is obviously picking the right 11, in the right formation and getting it all tick. But I think if we see it consistently, we could drastically change our opinions on how our squad and first IX looks.

I have many, many times said that our current squad is better than almost all in the PL and as such we are punching way below our weight. With no additions at all, I think a better manager would have had us comfortably in the top four.

But that still does not mean I am happy with the squad, I still think we could improve in almost every department. But then my expectation is to be the best in Europe and I think the clubs should be too, and if we want that then we shouldn't be settling in any area.

TheDoc

bucketybuck wrote: »

I have many, many times said that our current squad is better than almost all in the PL and as such we are punching way below our weight. With no additions at all, I think a better manager would have had us comfortably in the top four.

But that still does not mean I am happy with the squad, I still think we could improve in almost every department. But then my expectation is to be the best in Europe and I think the clubs should be too, and if we want that then we shouldn't be settling in any area.

Yeah I think our squad firing on all cylinders would be a pretty exciting prospect. Although that is a big hypothetical, probably assuming all players start performing to their potential. And that all young players continue an upward trajectory.

I'd be of the same opinion that I feel the club should be challenging for the CL, and I've mentioned to the point of boring now, how I feel the club bundled big time our spell with Fergie of CL success to establish ourselves are a proper powerhouse.

I just grow more concerned as the seasons have gone on, that the competition has been so dwindled in Germany and Spain, and yet such prestige attached to the titles there, that it's a much more attractive prospect for world class players who have the pick of the bunch, as opposed to coming to England with no winter break and having an absolute slog.

Newstalk had a really good interview with Emannual Petit there last week and he touched on it briefly with reference to Arsenal, as the interviewer was reminiscing about the team Petit was part of. He said outside of his WC, his PL medal is his prized possesion. To win the PL you need to suffer, mentally and physically. There is no easy games, no winter break, and that so many players now simply don't comprehend what they are singing up for when they come to England. And I think there is a certain truth in that.

If I'm Toni Kroos and I'm leaving Madrid this summer, and my choices are PSG, United or Juventus, I can totally see why he would prioritise PSG and Juventus and not us. And that is not just cause we are in a rut at the moment, but he will have a relatively easy coast to a league title with either (although Seria A shaping up a bit), it's an easier season to go through, and you are well rested for the CL knockout stages to really push on.

I'll be shocked if PSG dont win the CL within the next three iterations, including this one.

Lord TSC

https://twitter.com/TeleFootball/status/714865287867285504?s=09

Shaw back in training this week.

As happy as I am to see him back, I hope he's not rushing back for the Euros.

Mitch Connor

Lord TSC wrote: »

https://twitter.com/TeleFootball/status/714865287867285504?s=09

Shaw back in training this week.

As happy as I am to see him back, I hope he's not rushing back for the Euros.

from a selfish United point of view I would prefer to see United and Shaw write this season off, and look to start utterly fresh and utterly fit for next season.

Maximus Alexander

Lord TSC wrote: »

Shaw back in training this week.

As happy as I am to see him back, I hope he's not rushing back for the Euros.

Of course he is though, if he has any choice in the matter.

Manutd_4life

Smalling, Blind and Depay all in action at the moment in Wembley. Hoping for a good performance from Memphis

Discodog

Hopefully not true

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/mar/28/liverpool-confident-signing-mario-gotze-jurgen-klopp-connection

RobertKK

Manutd_4life wrote: »

Smalling, Blind and Depay all in action at the moment in Wembley. Hoping for a good performance from Memphis

Darmian playing against Germany on BT sports.

jayo26

Renato Sanchez after coming on for Portugal half time haven't got chance to see much of him. Match is on chelsea tv.

jayo26

Donno what the Portuguese feed their kids but that renato Sanchez is built like a tank looks a very strong player.

RobertKK

jayo26 wrote: »

Renato Sanchez after coming on for Portugal half time haven't got chance to see much of him. Match is on chelsea tv.

You have Chelsea TV?

jayo26

RobertKK wrote: »

You have Chelsea TV?

Lol yhh. Vu+ satelite box

DARK-KNIGHT

Discodog wrote: »

Hopefully not true

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/mar/28/liverpool-confident-signing-mario-gotze-jurgen-klopp-connection

That would be a massive step back for his career.

jayo26

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

That would be a massive step back for his career.

Not really He is not a regular starter but has won alot in his short career and scored the winning goal in a world cup final he will get a chance to probably replace continho at Liverpool and if they do win anything he will probably be the main man for them.

As much as I'd hate to see it happening I think it be a great move for him and Liverpool.

Martypants1

jayo26 wrote: »

Not really He is not a regular starter but has won alot in his short career and scored the winning goal in a world cup final he will get a chance to probably replace continho at Liverpool and if they do win anything he will probably be the main man for them.

As much as I'd hate to see it happening I think it be a great move for him and Liverpool.

Would be typical of us not to try and get him, and buy James for 65m.

We need to get the surplus quality players from the top 4 clubs.

jayo26

Martypants1 wrote: »

Would be typical of us not to try and get him, and buy James for 65m.

We need to get the surplus quality players from the top 4 clubs.

I actually don't think we would stand a chance for him, he would be heavily swayed by klopp but yh your right we will Probably pay 3 times the amount for James who has done fek all since the world cup.

Pyjamarama

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

That would be a massive step back for his career.

You should email him and tell him. Incredibly biased viewpoint. At least attempt to look at it as a neutral.

Liverpool have been an underperforming club for a while but they're still in the top 10 worldwide when it comes to finances and they have a manager that got the best out of him. No doubt they'll be able to match his wages at Bayern and that along with the Klopp factor would be the only reason he'd come to Anfield.

I don't see how being the main man for a team who would hope to be challenging for top 4 in the premiership is worse than sitting on the bench while a full back gets played ahead of you in midfield. The Bayern move has been a disaster for him.

jayo26

Pyjamarama wrote: »

I don't see how being the main man for a team who would hope to be challenging for top 4 in the premiership is worse than sitting on the bench while a full back gets played ahead of you in midfield. The Bayern move has been a disaster for him.

Thats a serious lack of ambition lol. For a team thats seemingly in top 10 of finances and got one of the top managers in the world to only hope to challenge for top four is a joke.

The money Liverpool have spent and wasted over past few years and money they going to spend this summer if klopp does not have them in the mix for top at least top with the likes of ourselves and close to the final of a cup it will be a failure in my opinion.

Martypants1

jayo26 wrote: »

I actually don't think we would stand a chance for him, he would be heavily swayed by klopp but yh your right we will Probably pay 3 times the amount for James who has done fek all since the world cup.

In that case we offer Bayern more than Liverpool. if Liverpool offer 20, give them 30.

jayo26

Martypants1 wrote: »

In that case we offer Bayern more than Liverpool. if Liverpool offer 20, give them 30.

It wouldn't be bayern we need to convince if he didn't want to join us, yeh they could say united offered more we want u to go there bit he dont have to.

Martypants1

Pyjamarama wrote: »

You should email him and tell him. Incredibly biased viewpoint. At least attempt to look at it as a neutral.

Liverpool have been an underperforming club for a while but they're still in the top 10 worldwide when it comes to finances and they have a manager that got the best out of him. No doubt they'll be able to match his wages at Bayern and that along with the Klopp factor would be the only reason he'd come to Anfield.

I don't see how being the main man for a team who would hope to be challenging for top 4 in the premiership is worse than sitting on the bench while a full back gets played ahead of you in midfield. The Bayern move has been a disaster for him.

He's averaged 23 starts in the last 2 seasons in the league for Bayern. There's only 34 games in the league. This year he's been injured a lot I believe.

Wouldn't say it's been a disaster. He hasn't stood out but Ancelotti will like him more. Hope he stays.

TheDoc

Injuries have unfortunately interupted his career, which was very much heading one way whilst at Dortmund, and at 23, he all the time in the world to still get to the level he should.

I can appreciate Liverpools interest, obviously Klopp knows better then most his ability, and a three behind the striker of Coutinho,Firminiho and Gotze could be excellent. Be raging if they get him though, player I very much like and would to join us.

Rayne Wooney

Gotze alone is pretty meh but if they manage to pull off a couple more buys at that level I'd begin to see them as a threat

Right now we probably have one of the best in terms of squad depth in the league but that is misleading because there are arguably 4 clubs with better starting XIs than us. I think a good manager would have us in top 4 now but I still think we are a good bit away from being where we want to be. We need to buy real quality in CB, CM and then a winger and/or forward.

Depay, Lingard, Blind, Herrera, Fellaini, Jones, Young and the young lads are squad players, preferably I'd lump Rooney in with that group too.

Rooney(see above) Martial, Mata, Schneiderlin, Shaw, Smalling, Darmian, and De Gea are the starters. We need partners for both Morgan and Mike and another good quality attacker in there.

jimmytwotimes 2013

I wouldn't touch Götze or James (Hames), just me?

Martypants1

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

I wouldn't touch Götze or James (Hames), just me?

I long for a central attacker who is capable of running past his man like Coutinho or Alli.

Juan8

Think James is getting underrated by a lot on here. He hasn't been great this season fair enough but hes a good player. He scored 17 and set up 18 last season.

sigmundv

Martypants1 wrote:

Would be typical of us not to try and get him, and buy James for 65m.

I think Ed would love to sign James as it would strengthen us in the Latin American market...

Cantona's Collars

Just had a quick look at the mornings back pages and The Star (I know,I know) is saying Rooney wants a meeting over his future if Jose becomes manager.This was mentioned last week also but got little attention.
I reckon Rooney is worried that he'll go from undropable under LVG to a squad player or for sale under Jose.

raze_them_all_

zerks wrote: »

Just had a quick look at the mornings back pages and The Star (I know,I know) is saying Rooney wants a meeting over his future if Jose becomes manager.This was mentioned last week also but got little attention.
I reckon Rooney is worried that he'll go from undropable under LVG to a squad player or for sale under Jose.

He can **** off, last time it was the future of the club and it's lack of ambition, playing a player long passed his prime is lack of ambition

sigmundv

zerks wrote:

I reckon Rooney is worried that he'll go from undropable under LVG to a squad player or for sale under Jose.

Well, José tried to sign him for Chelsea three years ago... But Rooney has declined a fair bit since then.

bucketybuck

zerks wrote: »

Just had a quick look at the mornings back pages and The Star (I know,I know) is saying Rooney wants a meeting over his future if Jose becomes manager.

Let him have his meeting. With Jose.

beno619

Liverpool can load their squad with as many #10's as they want.

We need a winger.

brinty

beno619 wrote: »

Liverpool can load their squad with as many #10's as they want.

We need a winger.

#signallthewingers

Lord TSC

Would love Rodriquez. A proper #10. Would be a savage signing imo, and a significant step up from other options available.

Leroy42

Looking at the England v Holland game last night, Memphis really is pretty rubbish. He put in a bit more effort tracking back but doesn't really seem too switched on to what is happening around him and loses his marker (unfortunately only in the defense sense) all too easily.

Maybe its all to do with confidence but this game was a chance for him to show what he can do and he was useless.

bangkok

Leroy42 wrote: »

Looking at the England v Holland game last night, Memphis really is pretty rubbish. He put in a bit more effort tracking back but doesn't really seem too switched on to what is happening around him and loses his marker (unfortunately only in the defense sense) all too easily.

Maybe its all to do with confidence but this game was a chance for him to show what he can do and he was useless.

yea if Mourinho comes in I fear for Memphis, cant see him last under him

Liam O

Lord TSC wrote: »

Would love Rodriquez. A proper #10. Would be a savage signing imo, and a significant step up from other options available.

You'd have to question the people turning their nose up at him and Gotze and wonder who they'd want to sign instead. Martial is the only member of the forward team who has performed to any kind of top level standard consistently this season. Rooney and Mata can play at that level and Rashford is very young. Of those 4, 3 have spent a lot of time on the wing so imo a right winger and an attacking midfielder are needed minimum. In world football you'd be hard pressed to find a better player somewhat available than those 2 for the position.

Also rumours of Gotze wanting to go to Liverpool. Stopping that would be another reason to go for him.

Liam O

Leroy42 wrote: »

Looking at the England v Holland game last night, Memphis really is pretty rubbish. He put in a bit more effort tracking back but doesn't really seem too switched on to what is happening around him and loses his marker (unfortunately only in the defense sense) all too easily.

Maybe its all to do with confidence but this game was a chance for him to show what he can do and he was useless.

I feel I've said this a lot of times. I don't want my wide forwards in a 4-3-3 to be chasing balls back to the left/right back. Messi and Neymar don't do it, Ronaldo and Bale don't do it, Ribery and Robben don't do it. Obviously there's games where it is necessary for everyone to be a bit more defensive but I feel the problem with the United system is that these players are so far back all the time so are never in position when the attacks happen.

If you look at Memphis' goals and assists in the past he has been given freedom to come inside and impact the game centrally. As do all the above mentioned wingers. It's hard to do that if you've to chase someone up and down the wings all game. That's what the 2 defensive midfielders should be covering in the United system.

Lord TSC

Liam O wrote: »

Also rumours of Gotze wanting to go to Liverpool. Stopping that would be another reason to go for him.

Honestly, thats a bad reason for going after a player.

I'd love James, as I said above, but he'd be way ahead of Gotze for me, and I'd probably have a few other players I'd put between them on the wish list too. Gotze would be a good signing, but he's not the type that completely changes a teams position in the league. He's good but nowhere near world class.

I think we desperately need a #10 this summer; Rooney doesn't cut it, and I don't have much confidence in Mata right now (and there's the whole Jose issue with him). We need a force of nature there, and I think James could be that player quiet easily. Gotze, on the other hand, might elevate the team, but nowhere near to the extent that a team like us or Liverpool need right now. He's good, possibly great, but not world class.

Liverpool will have their targets, and we'll have ours. And I expect ours to be a far higher class than theirs....

I'm wary of another Di Maria situation if we do go for James!

Cantona's Collars

Looks like Luke Shaw is to return to full training next week.Good news.

Lord TSC

zorro2566 wrote: »

I'm wary of another Di Maria situation if we do go for James!

Have seen people say this a lot, but one bad situation shouldn't be enough to put people off top class talent. Especially when as much of that can be attributed to...
1. Said player specifically said he PSG was always where he wanted to go.
2. LVG has everyone underpreforming.

I'd look at Ozil and Sanchez in Arsenal, for example. They've done very weel afetr leaving Real.

brinty

Lord TSC wrote: »

Have seen people say this a lot, but one bad situation shouldn't be enough to put people off top class talent. Especially when as much of that can be attributed to...
1. Said player specifically said he PSG was always where he wanted to go.
2. LVG has everyone underpreforming.

I'd look at Ozil and Sanchez in Arsenal, for example. They've done very weel afetr leaving Real.

Very good points there TSC

For me if we could take one Madrid player this summer, I'd like Modric, seems to have their midfield ticking along and orchestrating everything with short snappy crisp passing..

I doubt we'd get him though and they'd be more willing to do business on Kroos. If he's available I'd take him

bangkok

lots of stories this morning that Rojo will be sold by Utd this summer

brinty

bangkok wrote: »

lots of stories this morning that Rojo will be sold by Utd this summer

Think its fair to say I'm not bothered one way or the other by this.
He's not set the world alight and if we can recoup what we paid for him I'm ok with him departing.