Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning link in OP 20/3

bucketybuck

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

he's had a bad 18 months, but who the **** hasn't under this manager.

A point that will be studiously ignored by some.

KH25

I'd keep Rooney and give him a chance under a new manager. We can't just sell off everyone who's underperformed this year. We'd have no team left. I've been one of his biggest critics, but if we are getting in a new manager id give Rooney his chance.

bangkok

I always laugh when I read about, this week Rooney should be sold, not good enough etc.

Last week it was Daley Blind, too small and slow for centre back even though he has had a solid season.

when I mention the big man there are loads who defend him even though he has been awful for 3 seasons minus a few good games here and there

Lord TSC

bangkok wrote: »

I always laugh when I read about, this week Rooney should be sold, not good enough etc.

Last week it was Daley Blind, too small and slow for centre back even though he has had a solid season.

when I mention the big man there are loads who defend him even though he has been awful for 3 seasons minus a few good games here and there

Nearly as if different people have different opinions about different players, and it's foolish to attribute one opinion to an entire thread...

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

I always laugh when I read about, this week Rooney should be sold, not good enough etc.

Last week it was Daley Blind, too small and slow for centre back even though he has had a solid season.

when I mention the big man there are loads who defend him even though he has been awful for 3 seasons minus a few good games here and there

You just need to take your Fellaini issues to the relationship forums

RobertKK

Lord TSC wrote: »

Well if The Sun says it's true....

The Independent: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/manchester-united-news-jose-mourinho-offered-valencia-job-as-united-face-prospect-of-missing-out-on-a6960906.html

However, the Independent understands that Mourinho is yet to receive any official offer regarding the United job, and the relationship between Mourinho’s agent, Jorge Mendes, and Valencia owner Peter Lim, suggests that a move to the east coast may not be as farfetched as it appears.

Mitch Connor

Or it is believed Mendes is using the Valencia job as a nice and timely piece of pressure/leverage on United/Woodward.

bangkok

Mourinho to United is done as far as I am concerned and he is going around Europe at the moment scouting players personally to bring with him to United

RobertKK

If we got a top striker in, then a right winger who is a prolific goalscorer, then Rooney should be sold.
The main problem with Rooney is he drops too deep, and the other problem is when in bad form he was still being picked. I will never forget that own goal that won us the game to start the season against Spurs, ball at Rooney's foot and nothing, except it scared the Spur's player who put it in the net, which Rooney should have done.

RobertKK

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Or it is believed Mendes is using the Valencia job as a nice and timely piece of pressure/leverage on United/Woodward.

bangkok wrote: »

Mourinho to United is done as far as I am concerned and he is going around Europe at the moment scouting players personally to bring with him to United

We hope so, two years of penance under Van Gaal after Moyes...we don't deserve another year of penance...

bangkok

RobertKK wrote: »

We hope so, two years of penance under Van Gaal after Moyes...we don't deserve another year of penance...

worst kept secret in football after pep to man city which has already been confirmed

54and56

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

he's had a bad 18 months

a bad 18 months in an atrocious 43 months!! From Sept 1st 2012 (43 months ago) he has scored the grand total of 48 league goals. Super stuff. Let's blame all three managers he worked under during that period :eek:

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

but who the **** hasn't under this manager.

De Gea, Smalling, Martial, Shaw, Carrick........

bucketybuck

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Or it is believed Mendes is using the Valencia job as a nice and timely piece of pressure/leverage on United/Woodward.

At some point I wouldn't blame Mourinho for getting the hump and thinking "You know what, you are ****e right now and I'm a great manager, I shouldn't have to beg here. Its been months and you won't even approach me, so stuff your job".

Calmer personalities than him would be annoyed in that scenario, so if United think they can dangle the job in front of him indefinitely they could be in for a shock.

Thats assuming that is whats happening of course. Personally I don't believe any deal is done, it doesn't feel right to me, I think if an agreement was made we would know about it by now. If so, then we won't see Mourinho in the summer either.

54and56

bucketybuck wrote: »

So you want your back up striker to be one from Suarez, Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Benzema et al? Forgetting even the money that would cost and the fact we couldn't get them just tell me this, who would be happier to play a squad role at United, the incumbent Wayne Rooney or the incoming superstar you want to buy?

Why would a better striker than Rooney be backup? Also, a la my point ref Stevie G, if you want to attract top proven striking talent you'd have to have gotten rid of Rooney or made it very clear to both the incoming player and Rooney that the new lad is the starter and Rooney is the backup, something which I don't see Rooney agreeing to, certainly not in the next couple of years. The upshot therefore is more second fiddle or young promising but unproven strikers will make the squad but no one who will mind starting on the bench when captain Rooney is fit.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Wow, you asked a question and got a factual answer, imagine that. No surprise you didn't like it though.

A factual but self defeating answer. A past his best striker scores one more goal to add to 11 years of goals to break a record. Does that suddenly improve his 14 goal a season average which BTW is heading south not north!!

bucketybuck

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Why would a better striker than Rooney be backup?

You don't even know what the original point was, do you.

54and56

bucketybuck wrote: »

You don't even know what the original point was, do you.

I do, do u?

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

At some point I wouldn't blame Mourinho for getting the hump and thinking "You know what, you are ****e right now and I'm a great manager, I shouldn't have to beg here. Its been months and you won't even approach me, so stuff your job".

Calmer personalities than him would be annoyed in that scenario, so if United think they can dangle the job in front of him indefinitely they could be in for a shock.

Thats assuming that is whats happening of course. Personally I don't believe any deal is done, it doesn't feel right to me, I think if an agreement was made we would know about it by now. If so, then we won't see Mourinho in the summer either.

no chance, there has been contact, it has all been agreed, he is happy to take over in the summer, van Gaal will leave with dignity in the summer.

Can see Pellegrini taking over at Valencia.

Manchester Derby will be massive next year, Pep v Jose

Cantona's Collars

Everything is falling into place for LVG to walk away,the job with the Dutch team will be part time and not 24/7 like United so his wife will be happy,he'll be happy in the role and can leave United without any talk of sacking etc.
Jose has been lined up for a while,too much talk from every source going for it not to happen.

54and56

zerks wrote: »

Everything is falling into place for LVG to walk away,the job with the Dutch team will be part time and not 24/7 like United so his wife will be happy,he'll be happy in the role and can leave United without any talk of sacking etc.
Jose has been lined up for a while,too much talk from every source going for it not to happen.

Apart from the fact Jose's teams have traditionally played a style of football which isn't in keeping with what the Utd faithful want to see he is undoubtedly a win at all costs type manager who will certainly improve both the style of play and rate of success compared to LVG but is anyone else concerned that he seemed to lose the plot entirely (even for Jose!!) in his last few months at Chelsea and didn't have the ability to control the dressing room? He is clearly a very divisive and alienating character which is fine if you are deliberately creating a siege "us against them" mentality in a club but when the people you alienate are your own staff, players and directors and you are unable to reverse that alienation to save yourself from the sack I wonder has he genuinely learnt a lesson or will he bring that sort of bile into OT and if he does how long it will be before any improvement in results is outweighed by the disruption he causes?

Only time will tell I guess if he takes/is offered the job this summer assuming that is LVG is happy to walk or is pushed.

If LVG does walk and for some reason Jose doesn't get/take the job what's plan 'B' other than Giggs????

TheDoc

zerks wrote: »

Everything is falling into place for LVG to walk away,the job with the Dutch team will be part time and not 24/7 like United so his wife will be happy,he'll be happy in the role and can leave United without any talk of sacking etc.
Jose has been lined up for a while,too much talk from every source going for it not to happen.

I'd say he will do fantastic in that type of role, hope he takes it, hope it goes well and wish him all the best.

People can be too quick to belittle and write off peoples entire careers and experience from what in the grand scheme of things (career wise) is a blip.

Van Gaal has incredible football knowledge and ability, and while not transparent at United(but may become clearer in years to come) has good strengths in aligning a club into a vision, infra structurally etc.

I think he will be an excellent Director of Football or technical director. I mentioned before that if the English game,fans and all associated were more open minded, he would have been offered the role at our club this summer, but as that is totally unlikely it's no surprise to see the Dutch wanting to get him in.

Coat22

bangkok wrote: »

no chance, there has been contact, it has all been agreed, he is happy to take over in the summer, van Gaal will leave with dignity in the summer.

Can see Pellegrini taking over at Valencia.

Manchester Derby will be massive next year, Pep v Jose

An awful lot of misplaced confidence on here that its a done deal with Jose.

Valencia would seem like an ideal spot for to go. The underdog, the Kim/Mendes connection (alleged!), back to Spain to prove a few things, United delaying and delaying.

Don't see how VG leaving in the summer is with dignity - he still has a year on his contract so he is being sacked in that case. He's not Pellegrini heading off into the sunset with an armful of trophies and making way for by far the most sought after coach in sport.

Hopefully I'm wrong but nothing tells me Jose to Utd is a done deal

Cantona's Collars

Fergie wants the club to stick by LVG.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/mar/31/manchester-united-fans-louis-van-gaal-sir-alex-ferguson

No mention of United in the last paragraph:

“Pep will improve City but Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham will want to do something and will be desperate to win the league next season as much as City, so for Pep there is not a guarantee they can win the league.”

Pro. F

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

a bad 18 months in an atrocious 43 months!! From Sept 1st 2012 (43 months ago) he has scored the grand total of 48 league goals. Super stuff. Let's blame all three managers he worked under during that period :eek:

You seem to not know this, but Rooney was playing as a number 10 for most of that period, not a CF.

12/13 - 12 league goals
13/14 - 17 league goals
14/15 - 12 league goals

Those are fine returns considering the positions he was playing and the state of the team in two of the three seasons.

54and56

Pro. F wrote: »

You seem to not know this, but Rooney was playing as a number 10 for most of that period, not a CF.

12/13 - 12 league goals
13/14 - 17 league goals
14/15 - 12 league goals

Those are fine returns considering the positions he was playing and the state of the team in two of the three seasons.

Ah fair enough so, I take it all back. He's a deadly # 10 and should be played there for the remainder of his contract rather than his favoured position as a striker where this year he doesn't even have a 1 in 3 scoring ratio in the PL. Good for the club and good for Rooney apart from the fact he doesn't want to play there that is.

Martypants1

Pro. F wrote: »

Banking on Jones to be fit enough to play is utterly stupid.

Has there been any confirmation of the injury jones has? Last I heard he went off with a head injury in the u-21s.

He could be advised to sit out indefinitely or something.

Who would have thought Smalling would be our first choice CB starting 50 games a season 2 years ago?

Pro. F

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Ah fair enough so, I take it all back. He's a deadly # 10 and should be played there for the remainder of his contract rather than his favoured position as a striker where this year he doesn't even have a 1 in 3 scoring ratio in the PL. Good for the club and good for Rooney apart from the fact he doesn't want to play there that is.

You have evidence that Rooney will be unwilling to play number 10? Please share it.

Pro. F

Martypants1 wrote: »

Has there been any confirmation of the injury jones has? Last I heard he went off with a head injury in the u-21s.

He could be advised to sit out indefinitely or something.

Who would have thought Smalling would be our first choice CB starting 50 games a season 2 years ago?

Whoever would have thought it, anybody who built their squad plans around the assumption would have been extremely foolish. Just as you are being by saying that it's okay to sell Rojo because we have Jones to take his place as back-up.

Lord TSC

zerks wrote: »

Fergie wants the club to stick by LVG.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/mar/31/manchester-united-fans-louis-van-gaal-sir-alex-ferguson

No mention of United in the last paragraph:

“Pep will improve City but Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham will want to do something and will be desperate to win the league next season as much as City, so for Pep there is not a guarantee they can win the league.”

I'd be expecting the pro-Giggs/LVG campaign to be kicking on big time over the next few weeks. I'd be expecting them to publicly back LVG while pushing Giggs as the obvious successor elect.

My thoughts would be that said campaign has to be in full flow cause they think it's not a sure fire thing that Giggs will take over though.

StringerBell

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=913176872137441&id=129522783836191

How much does fergie hate jose?

54and56

Pro. F wrote: »

You have evidence that Rooney will be unwilling to play number 10? Please share it.

I didn't say he'd be unwilling to play in the #10 role did I? Why do you make stuff up to justify your POV? I said "he doesn't want to play there", not the same thing at all. Despite the fact he doesn't want to play there he will if asked.

“I’ve had no problem in the past playing out of position. But I felt I deserved the right to play in my position and that wasn’t happening. I think, naturally, I was a bit disappointed and maybe that affected some of the games I played. I know myself that last year wasn’t my best season but there were times when I was playing in different positions. I didn’t feel I got a consistent run of games up front. Sometimes when you’re not playing in one position all the time it’s difficult to adapt.” Taken from http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/oct/09/wayne-rooney-reasons-leave-manchester-united

I think I've made my general point ref Rooney but in case I didn't articulate it well enough have a look at http://the18.com/news/three-graphs-perfectly-sum-wayne-rooney-manchester-united-decline. If anything six months on from their analysis it's even more spot on.

Mitch Connor

I don't see how people could really argue Rooney couldn't be improved upon in any position we could play him in. At his very best, he is still a very good player, but he is very inconsistent in performance levels, which also doesn't help.

Whether we could actually attract players better than Rooney, who knows? I could see the likes of Kane or Lukaku (never mind a player like Lewandowski) either staying where they are or heading off to another big club (Bayern, Juve, PSG) or City for example.

I reckon Rooney will be a United player next season.

Coat22

zerks wrote: »

Fergie wants the club to stick by LVG.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/mar/31/manchester-united-fans-louis-van-gaal-sir-alex-ferguson

No mention of United in the last paragraph:

“Pep will improve City but Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham will want to do something and will be desperate to win the league next season as much as City, so for Pep there is not a guarantee they can win the league.”

God that's as depressing as the football this season

For 150 years of history it is worth having a couple of years on the quiet side of success because they will always come back and come back strong

...so we're going to be crap for a few more years but that's fine because it'll mean we win the league in 2020?

Cantona's Collars

Coat22 wrote: »

God that's as depressing as the football this season



...so we're going to be crap for a few more years but that's fine because it'll mean we win the league in 2020?

The fans are happy on Twitter:rolleyes:

I wonder what kind of agenda Fergie has in mind by his statements,he rarely says anything without some kind of motive behind it.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-utd-news-ferguson-mourinho-11119464

54and56

zerks wrote: »

The fans are happy on Twitter:rolleyes:

I wonder what kind of agenda Fergie has in mind by his statements,he rarely says anything without some kind of motive behind it.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-utd-news-ferguson-mourinho-11119464

IMHO he's laying the groundwork for Jose needing a couple of years to build his own team before trophies, particularly the PL and CL are a realistic aim.

Cantona's Collars

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

IMHO he's laying the groundwork for Jose needing a couple of years to build his own team before trophies, particularly the PL and CL are a realistic aim.

Or it is Giggs he is angling to have as manager,look what happened when his mate Moyes got the job.

Headshot

I was very sorry to see Gary going but it was on the cards but fair play to him anyway. It takes a lot of balls to go from a comfy pundit job to managing a big team like Valencia.

Credit to him.

Pity Giggs wants life easy and wants it handed to him on a silver platter.

More Jose stuff for uz;

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/exreal-madrid-president-convinced-jose-mourinho-will-return-if-he-doesnt-go-to-man-united-34588046.html?

RobertKK

Negative press in Argentina for Rojo who was filmed smoking at a party.

I really don't get why any athlete would smoke. It is like an anti-performance drug.

Martypants1

Pro. F wrote: »

Whoever would have thought it, anybody who built their squad plans around the assumption would have been extremely foolish. Just as you are being by saying that it's okay to sell Rojo because we have Jones to take his place as back-up.

We didn't have Blind, TFM as CB cover when Rojo was signed and we didn't have CBJ as left back cover when he was signed. All I'm saying is I wouldn't mind him going if he was to go. We are going to be signing a new CB anyways.

Martypants1

Rooney won't be sold unless we sign someone as marketable as him. Kane maybe next year.

He's something like the 8th most followed athlete in the world on social media. No way Ed and co let that kind of player go.

TheDoc

Martypants1 wrote: »

Rooney won't be sold unless we sign someone as marketable as him. Kane maybe next year.

He's something like the 8th most followed athlete in the world on social media. No way Ed and co let that kind of player go.

I'm always surprised to hearing that he is a marketable individual for the club.

I've never bothered checking because I don't care personally, but followers aren't representative of his actual marketing ability or power.

He is one of the most uncharasmatic people in football when it comes to public appearances, so I'd be surprised to see he was a really marketable footballer.

Isn't one of the really sickening points of his last deal, being the club were forced to buy out or into something to do with his "imaging rights" that means his salary is part formed of his salary, but also image rights the club pay him?

I remember reading reports about a very unusual deal he signed. And it read to me that his people knew the club were pushing revenue forward, and wanted to ensure his image rights went along for the ride(to secure him from bigger players arriving)

Liam O

It was said earlier that Ruud and Ronaldo were better than Rooney in front of goal. Which I would agree with, given they are 2 of the best goalscorers I've ever seen.

However to use that as an indictment of Rooney is incredibly wide of the mark as to have a close to 1 in 2 record and be closing in on the all time record at the club after years of playing with those 2 scoring 25-40 a season along with Berbatov, Tevez, RVP(!), Hernandez and the others is incredibly good. He was around the league leader in assists a lot of those years. When Ronaldo and Ruud were there he was on about 15-20 goals a season along with 15-20 assists.

The fact he was matching RVP's output the years he was the main striker for the entire season is overlooked, as is his ability to drive forward and in space creation for the aforementioned players.

It's a joke that his contribution to United is ever doubted. His off field (private) commitment, fine, got to town. His general play in 2015, yep, was below par. As was RVP, Falcao and a lot of the other forward options. I think his form at the turn of the year dispelled any concerns about his ability to contribute in the short term, shame the injury came when it did. He is an out and out forward now. Out and out forwards need service. He hasn't been getting it.

Lord TSC

Not that I trust him, but he's jumping (safely, while covering his own ass) on the bandwagon...

https://twitter.com/GuillemBalague/status/715566218879574016

Every single person in football I ask about Mourinho (dozens of coaches, directors) is convinced he will manage United next

bucketybuck

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I don't see how people could really argue Rooney couldn't be improved upon in any position we could play him in.

That wasn't the argument though, we could indeed spend millions and improve upon 2016 Wayne Rooney.

Should we sell him though? Would the cash we get mean anything to us? He would make a fantastic and versatile 2nd striker, would we be able to replace him with anything better for that role? A better manager could easily use him right and get better performances from him, why would we want to pass up on that just for a few quid?

We talk a lot about squads and I said that to be successful we want our backup players to be more than just good enough, we want them to be top quality as well. Rooney fits the bill there.

People bleat on about him not wanting to be a backup but they have no way of knowing that. Do you think he wants to go to China or the US? Or to a bottom of the league club? No big club will take him and he must know that, so why is it so strange to think a good manager could not convince him to play a rotation role with us?

Martypants1

There's also no way he leaves without getting the record.

Martypants1

Lord TSC wrote: »

Not that I trust him, but he's jumping (safely, while covering his own ass) on the bandwagon...

https://twitter.com/GuillemBalague/status/715566218879574016

Every single person in football I ask about Mourinho (dozens of coaches, directors) is convinced he will manage United next

It's gonna happen.

It's like the Bale to Madrid thing.

Rayne Wooney

We are in no position to give Giggs a chance, a couple more years of mediocrity and the sponsors will be jumping ship.

I know Fergie wants what's best for the club but what is he thinking here, like with Moyes. Does he want managers he can influence? Does he genuinely think Jose will fail?

Lord TSC

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I know Fergie wants what's best for the club but what is he thinking here, like with Moyes. Does he want managers he can influence? Does he genuinely think Jose will fail?

I think he believes he knows whats best for the club, and that Jose will want to forge his own legacy, make Man United his own club. Reality is if Jose comes in, Giggs will be moved on and that will probably be the end of the "Class of 92 Takeover" that some have long imagined. The opposite of what you asked, I reckon he probably thinks Jose could be a massive success for United, and that's a deathbell for the Class of 92's hopes.

Billy86

Personally I think there is a good bit of post-management Busby coming about with Ferguson the last few years, being unable to give up control entirely and wanting to keep as much influence as he can.

jayo26

Billy86 wrote: »

Personally I think there is a good bit of post-management Busby coming about with Ferguson the last few years, being unable to give up control entirely and wanting to keep as much influence as he can.

Thats what some would like to believe but It is not true.. United are a stock listed company and fergie has as much Input as Bobby Charlton and David Gill they are simply club ambassadors and at most an advisor but they don't have power and fergies last act of power was probably helping appoint moyes.