Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning link in OP 20/3

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I'm really not worried about the long term as I have learned over time that things can change very quick in football terms.

Take July of 2006, had you told me we win CL 1 season later I have laughed at you.

Short term is where I only look at now. At present its not good, but I'm confident things will look much better come September.

Today was just another bad day in a large amount this season.

Sensible kew!! The best kew!!!

IamtheWalrus

Are we saying that for 60-70m, Lukaku and Kane are the best forwards in the world? If not, why target them. I know they're proven PL quality but they're pricey. How much would Kane cost placing for Genoa, £30m?

Mitch Connor

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Are we saying that for 60-70m, Lukaku and Kane are the best forwards in the world? If not, why target them. I know they're proven PL quality but they're pricey. How much would Kane cost placing for Genoa, £30m?

There is a lack of top quality strikers like there were in previous generations, imo. Also, prices are far higher now that they would have been 5 years or so ago.

We aren't going to get Messi or Neymar. Maybe Ronaldo. I like Dybala but I don;t see Juve selling and if they did it would cost as much Lukaku or Kane. Napoli are talking about €94million for Higuain. Lewandoski from Munich - would he leave? How much would it cost?

Who else would there be to go for? Honestly, you don't hear about Chelsea or Arsenal being linked to a higher caliber of player - or PSG. Aguero is the only player I've not mentioned - and while he is a lot better than Kane or Lukaku, arguably the best striker in football there is absolutely NO chance City would sell him to us, none. So no point discussing that one.

Liam O

zerks wrote: »

Have a look at the heat maps here:Carrick and Schneiderlin literally playing on top of each other.Even a blind man could see that Schneiderlin and Herrera would be a better fit,one to push on and drop back when needed and one to keep an eye on things behind.
Take a look also at how little we actually had players in Spurs box compared to the amount of time they stayed out wide,it was as if they were afraid of the goal.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/fixtures.html#s2015-m803487

People keep saying Schneiderlin and Herrera and yet when they play the opposition have basically a free run at the defense and Smalling and Blind appear to play badly. Herrera has been awful this season. Fellaini is the only midfield player who's showed a bit of steel and fight this season. The only one who hasn't cowered away when things turned south and gets completely panned for it.

I'm getting close to writing off Schneiderlin as a bog standard box to box player with poor positional sense when asked to play as the deep player in midfield. Southampton moved away from having him there and it's clearly not working at United when he plays beside someone without the engine to cover behind him.

Maybe he'll prove me wrong though...

GSPfan

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Are we saying that for 60-70m, Lukaku and Kane are the best forwards in the world? If not, why target them. I know they're proven PL quality but they're pricey. How much would Kane cost placing for Genoa, £30m?

Of course not but they are premier league proven, very young, and and at least one of them is open to a move.

To try get a striker better than them to move to us is probably impossible in our current state. Regardless of money. Anyone good enough who isn't in the English league seems to want to play for Barca and Real these days. Barca is in peoples DNA apparently and playing for Real Madrid seems to be a wish or a promise fulfilment to a dying relative for a lot of players. We aren't on their radar.

Rayne Wooney

Lukaku and Kane are the best strikers that don't play for teams currently above us in the football ladder. Realistically we aren't going to sign anyone better from one of the bigger clubs unless we go down the Zlatan route.

It's supply and demand, you won't get a 20 goal a season striker for cheap and Everton and Spurs will know our options are limited. Kane will cost a lot more because Spurs have CL and he is English, they don't need to sell unless it's a mouth watering 80-90 million offer and that would be insane.

BenK

I think with Lukaku when he's not scoring he doesn't offer what Kane does.

I'd pay the extra 15-20 million or whatever to get Kane if the transfer was any way possible. You could possibly have a top class striker for the next 10 years who's also less likely to look for the Real / Barca transfer.

Pro. F

I'd be mildly annoyed if any players were shipped out this summer. Unless somebody wants to leave or something. When the manager is this incompetent pretty much all criticism of the players is pointless and the squad is way too small as it is anyway.

Everybody has players that they rate and don't rate, but using this period as an opportunity to criticise the players you don't rate and call for their sale is just a counterproductive, emotional response.

Pro. F

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I wouldn't have gone into the season with two strikers like LVG did, but it is definitely hindsight to be going on like we could see that happening with Hernandez. He was average at best for us and Madrid in the last 3 years.

The real mistake was letting him, RVP and Welbeck go in the space of 12 months and going into the season this light on strikers.

Maybe you were saying that at the time, but there were plenty of people who disagreed with that sentiment at the time, so it most definitely is not hindsight.

The_Kew_Tour

I would 100% keep Depay. The lad has talent and he deserves a rack under new manager. If he fails then we'll ok I'll hold my hand up.

Martypants1

Entering into Liverpool levels of delusion mentioning Kane and Utd in the same sentence.

GSPfan

I agree, I wouldn't sell anyone unless there is some wage bill reason that isn't apparent or a new managers style of play is completely contradictory to the player.

I can see the reason for selling Fellaini as he has a certain use and it might not be useful to the next manager. Jones is a drain on the club at this stage with his injuries and there may be a few more I cant think of but generally Id keep everyone with any use at all. Players need to be added.

GSPfan

Martypants1 wrote: »

Entering into Liverpool levels of delusion mentioning Kane and Utd in the same sentence.

No one has mentioned it without adding its extremely unlikely or it would take stupid money to pull off so no delusion.

Cantona's Collars

8 shots on target in the last 4 games and we have only created 2 more chances than Villa so far this season,terrible stuff.

Coaching the natural attacking instinct out of players:

Nani:

“He and his assistant would shout at players like we were kids, like 18-year-olds,” he told the Sunday Times.

“And I would think, ‘This is not the way to treat us because I am professional. I am training every day, and I am doing nothing wrong.

“It’s difficult to play football when somebody is saying ‘Come on! You must pass the ball like this, blah, blah, blah.’ It’s crazy, because football is instinct and decision. It’s what you see.”
The club is “different now… with all due respect, it’s not Manchester.”

jayo26

Martypants1 wrote: »

Entering into Liverpool levels of delusion mentioning Kane and Utd in the same sentence.

You just did it?

adox

Off topic but what a finish to the masters.
Sport can be utterly riveting.

mewe

Delighted for Willett.

Cantona's Collars

adox wrote: »

Off topic but what a finish to the masters.
Sport can be utterly riveting.

Unlike watching United,some great stuff played in Augusta today.

5starpool

zerks wrote: »

Unlike watching United,some great stuff played in Augusta today.

As a Liverpool fan I'm sure he was happy enough with the utd result once he bothers checking football scores in a few weeks when he has calmed down. :pac:

adox

Check out Willets brothers Twitter account. Some great stuff on it.:

https://twitter.com/p_j_willett

Cantona's Collars

League goals this season:
Rooney - 7
Hernandez - 16
Van Persie - 10
Di Maria - 9
Kagawa - 8
Henriquez - 8
Nani - 7
Welbeck - 3

Remember Rooney promising 20 goals?

We sold our strikers bar Rooney then bought a kid and end up playing him on the wing,nuts.

mewe

adox wrote: »

Check out Willets brothers Twitter account. Some great stuff on it.:

https://twitter.com/p_j_willett

Ha that's brilliant! :pac:

Cantona's Collars

mewe wrote: »

Ha that's brilliant! :pac:

https://twitter.com/P_J_Willett/status/719303314018578433

sigmundv

Antibac wrote:

There was a damning stat shown after Spurs scored their third goal. They had 14 shots on target we had 1

Just to be accurate, the stat was 14 attempts for Spurs, 7 on target, and 4 for United, 1 on target.

StringerBell

Today was what you would expect from this season, and uninspiring performance, a defeat and no fight in the team not to mention a leader on the pitch.

We have become soft as a unit which saddens me, nobody cajoling the others and getting people up and at the opposition when they aren't quite at it.

Martial from the left is not something I criticise, I like him there and it allows him a little bit more freedom and space to run at defenders facing goal which is what he is good at, happy to let him continue his development there for now, our best attacking outlet but isolated far too often and still taking the wrong option or messing up a bit too much, he will learn.

The collapse after the first goal was pathetic, in fact everything about the first goal was pathetic beginning with Blind and Smalling jumping in to each other going for the same ball, then the players being too weak in their efforts to get the possession, to track runners, to have an impact in general.

The manager has been at the club long enough now that we should have a clear idea of his best team, we don't. We still don't play a cohesive game of football either, its either slow and lateral focused on retaining possession and waiting for mistakes or more open and prone to getting cut apart.

We are shockingly bad at defending set pieces, or anything that involves the ball being played in through the air, the marking and the actual attempts to win the ball in the air is abysmal. So many times we have seen players standing free in the box or unchallenged for headers, there is no excuse for this happening week in week out, its player error of course, but it begins at training.

Spurs are a very good team, and they are playing great stuff at the moment and going for a title. It was always going to be a big ask given the situations both teams are in to get a result today but the lack of fight in the team is not excusable. They just gave up, the time and space Spurs had in the build up for the third goal was disgraceful.

It is another nail in the already stuffed full of nails coffin of Louis Van Gaal's tenure as manager and at least it brings it one game closer to the end of the season, it really is heartbreaking to me how this has turned out. It was not a bad appointment at the time, I still believe that, but it has simply not worked and he has not shown the ability to fix the issues within his own style and demands of the players.

He has his supporters publicly still, Fergie for one, and Pochettino even saying he is receiving too much criticism etc but I think any rational person has to look at the situation we are in and say it is just not good enough, it is not acceptable and it needs to be addressed in the summer. Hell the summer will have been too late when realistically the time to go was quite some time ago now, but it is what it is. The decision needs to be taken quickly in the summer, get on with it and get the new man in, hopefully someone is in place already and working out plans for next season already.

I don't vilify Van Gaal, sometimes things just don't work out. The important thing then is to address it and move forward, something the man himself has been unable to achieve in his time at the club. There is the makings of a good squad there, with a different manager and some first team quality players (we all know the positions) identified and signed in the summer I have faith next year can be a very good one for the club.

Football is an ever changing landscape and United will come good again, but it is not going to be some magic wand fix and some parts of me would like to believe that the current struggles are part of a growth process, though even if that were the case finishing outside the top 4 again this year, the poor football on display and the lack of fire in the team is just not acceptable anyway. I can take the barren times, you take the bad with the good as a supporter. I'll support the team no matter what and I am aware of how spoiled with success we have been over the past 20-25 years and the extra pressure that puts on managers and players at the club, but those are the demands and if someone isn't able to cope with that, and live up to where the bar has been set they need to be replaced or upgraded upon. Simple as that really.

****e day, ****e season, sorry for the long post.

Giggsy11

GSPfan wrote: »

Id also much rather Kane over Lukaku. I really don't rate Lukaku like the rest of the football community seems to. Kane has the ability to create his own goals which I don't believe Lukaku can do. Lukaku to me would be a wate of money for the reported £65 million quoted.

In saying that... I doubt Kane would be sold even if you offered £70 million.

Lukaku has created plenty of his goals all by himself. He has very good pace and dribbling ability (not great close control though).

Giggsy11

Also looks like I picked out very good game to miss out. Was travelling and just checked scores in between.

Heard Fosu Mensah had a very good game hopefully he will be part of first team squad next season.

Re Hernandez, I don't know about others but I for one said he should be our first choice striker ahead of Rooney as in the very few mins he got he did better than Rooney, as in his touch and movement were better. It's a mistake to lose him that too just for nothing fee.

Funny how with a bit of trust and freedom players play like completely new players. Something that Van Gaal couldn't and won't offer at United.

jayo26

I dont do long posts because mostly my grammar is ****e and I bore people so I will keep this simple.

LVG has to go and has to go soon Ashley Young playing centre forward sums up united under lvg.

FutureGuy

jayo26 wrote: »

I dont do long posts because mostly my grammar is ****e and I bore people so I will keep this simple.

LVG has to go and has to go soon Ashley Young playing centre forward sums up united under lvg.

Playing him as a 10, I would understand.
Playing him wide, I'd understand.

Playing Young as a 9 and Martial wide.

I do not understand.

jayo26

FutureGuy wrote: »

Playing him as a 10, I would understand.
Playing him wide, I'd understand.

Playing Young as a 9 and Martial wide.

I do not understand.

Its baffling I really don't get the man at all.

How does he judge team selection? Last game rojo gets subbed off and replaced by darmian who makes the world of difference so next game he starts rojo and replaces darmian with a kid playing out of position??

He is 2 years into the job and he still can decide who is best playing where he can't even decide who is best taking corners.

Deise_2012

jayo26 wrote: »

Its baffling I really don't get the man at all.

How does he judge team selection? Last game rojo gets subbed off and replaced by darmian who makes the world of difference so next game he starts rojo and replaces darmian with a kid playing out of position??

He is 2 years into the job and he still can decide who is best playing where he can't even decide who is best taking corners.

Badly missing Phil Jones to swing in the corners

brinty

Christ lads, I'm verging on a depressive state of mind right now. How anyone can make a case for that guy to be retained is beyond me.

I've been certain for a month that Jose is coming in but he must be looking at things now going where can I start to build..

De Gea - will he stay or will he go
Shaw - lets hope he can recover from the injury and get back to how he started this season
Martial - the bright light of a poor poor season

everyone else I'm just going meh about... I could honestly take them or leave them.

That's three players on which to build a team and one of them is your goalkeeper..

Smalling for his supposed great season still doesn't convince me at all. The opportunity has been there for him all season to say I'm the guy here to lead this defence and he hasn't.

Also could you all cop on re Harry Kane, its not going to happen. Why would he leave a spurs team which is built around making the best use of his talents. We've more chance of signing Jamie Carragher and Stevie G...

Leroy42

Of course the team needs new players but missing out on top 4, again, is going to make that very difficult.

Players like Kane, Lukaku, Kroos or whatever are not going to come to a club outside the CL spots. And it is very far from certain that next year will be any different given that Chelsea will come back strongly (probably), Klopp will have a full year in Pool, City will have Pep and Spurs should continue to grow.

But my thinking is that even without these top level players, we should have enough in the current squad. The problem is that as a whole then team is terrible and individually none of the players (Martial and DDG excepted) are playing anywhere near the level required.

Leicster, Spurs, West Ham have shown that you don't need a team full of world class players. You need a manager who has a clue about what he is doing, good training and a system to bring players on to help them to achieve their best.

TL/DR, focus on getting the right new manager in and forget about wasting all summer chasing the marque signing. Get both of course if possible but LVG is the route cause of this and if nothing is done about that then we are simply burning money on the bonfire by trying to byuy our way out of this.

PhlegmyMoses

brinty wrote: »

Christ lads, I'm verging on a depressive state of mind right now. How anyone can make a case for that guy to be retained is beyond me.

I've been certain for a month that Jose is coming in but he must be looking at things now going where can I start to build..

De Gea - will he stay or will he go
Shaw - lets hope he can recover from the injury and get back to how he started this season
Martial - the bright light of a poor poor season

everyone else I'm just going meh about... I could honestly take them or leave them.

That's three players on which to build a team and one of them is your goalkeeper..

Smalling for his supposed great season still doesn't convince me at all. The opportunity has been there for him all season to say I'm the guy here to lead this defence and he hasn't.

Also could you all cop on re Harry Kane, its not going to happen. Why would he leave a spurs team which is built around making the best use of his talents. We've more chance of signing Jamie Carragher and Stevie G...

Agree with much of what you say apart from the Smalling part. He has been the one saving grace in what is the second best defence in the league when it comes to goals conceded. Blind has been an able deputy but he is just missing that bit of physicality to be up there with the best. After that, we have had a revolving cast of misfiring fullbacks and midfielders making the task of defending well even more difficult. DDG has been a rock obviously, but Smalling has carried a huge amount of the responsibility in that defence also.

Mitch Connor

I think Blind and Smalling have done quite well, but I think of late I have been noticing more and more commanding issues between them. Maybe I am imagining it a bit but it feels like they are letting balls drop between them, on the assumption the other is going to deal with it. Neither takes responsibility enough, neither is commanding enough. I like Smalling and Blind, but I would still think we need to sign a top level, commanding CB, to partner Smalling.

jayo26

Mata looked totally dejected the shake of his head after been subed off tells a story.

bucketybuck

jayo26 wrote: »

Mata looked totally dejected the shake of his head after been subed off tells a story.

I picture Van Gaal as one of the priests from Father Ted, "is there anything to be said for trying Mata on the right? Again..."

bangkok

"Leicester City will not finish in the top 4"

:cool:

Whoever did this, take a bow son

https://twitter.com/FootyHumour/status/719170388433989632

bangkok

timothy fosu-mensah looks like a star in the making.

18 years of age, pace, power, confident with the ball, good no nonsense defender and great going forward.

Martypants1

GSPfan wrote: »

No one has mentioned it without adding its extremely unlikely or it would take stupid money to pull off so no delusion.

BenK wrote: »

I think with Lukaku when he's not scoring he doesn't offer what Kane does.

I'd pay the extra 15-20 million or whatever to get Kane if the transfer was any way possible. You could possibly have a top class striker for the next 10 years who's also less likely to look for the Real / Barca transfer.

BenK wrote: »

I know it's extremely unlikely but would much rather Kane than Lukaku.

Juan8 wrote: »

For all the goals he scores I'm not convinced he's a top player, Like the other poster said above I'd much rather we try to spend that £50/60m on Kane, Or maybe invest in the wings where we are also poor and play Martial up top more regularly, I'd also rather Ibra on a 2 year deal than Lukaku

GSPfan wrote: »

Id also much rather Kane over Lukaku. I really don't rate Lukaku like the rest of the football community seems to. Kane has the ability to create his own goals which I don't believe Lukaku can do. Lukaku to me would be a wate of money for the reported £65 million quoted.

In saying that... I doubt Kane would be sold even if you offered £70 million.

GSPfan wrote: »

The fact Spurs could use the money with the new stadium under construction is probably the only reason they'd listen to offers. Arsenal proved that selling players for big money while you have stadium debt around your neck is a definite reality.

The only reason I could see Kane leaving is as you say that the club show that they are vulnerable to players and managers leaving therefore Kane's hunger for success might make him question being at the club.

In saying all of that I believe Martial, Rashford, and Rooney are good enough to rotate up front if we buy the right supporting wingers or attacking midfielders so we may not go for a striker. It depends on Mourinho's tactics. He plays 1 striker and doesn't rotate much so having 3 strikers might be enough for him.

Read the above replies.

Why is Kane mentioned and not Lewandowski, Morato, Icardi?

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

timothy fosu-mensah looks like a star in the making.

18 years of age, pace, power, confident with the ball, good no nonsense defender and great going forward.

He does indeed but will been moved around defence as he does help him? Cbj is equally exciting just a bit more old fashioned

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

He does indeed but will been moved around defence as he does help him? Cbj is equally exciting just a bit more old fashioned

he could play as a defensive midfielder as well, very good with the ball, good tackler and bags of energy

Lord TSC

Just think though. Another year under "Mr Youth Philosophy" Van Gaal and they too can reach the lofty heights of Blackett, Wilson and McNair! :P

billo.d86

Why was there nobody put on Danny Rose to stop him flying down the wing?
Lingard should have been moved out there and Mata thru the middle.

KH25

billo.d86 wrote: »

Why was there nobody put on Danny Rose to stop him flying down the wing?
Lingard should have been moved out there and Mata thru the middle.

Only LVG can explain that to you. It was a stupid decision. I think he likes Lingard a little too much and plays him more than he deserves, but at the very least he's quicker than Mata. The whole right side was nullified because so much time was spent defending.

Lord TSC

Saw this on Reddit

LVG needs 17 goals and 4 points from the next two league fixtures just to equal Moyes figures when he was sacked!

Cantona's Collars

billo.d86 wrote: »

Why was there nobody put on Danny Rose to stop him flying down the wing?
Lingard should have been moved out there and Mata thru the middle.

You,me and everybody else could see that but LVG couldn't.Another thing is why doesn't Schneiderlin go forward so much for frees,corners etc.He's one of our taller players and did well early when he joined us by going up,now that's stopped.

Playing Young as CF 'cos he did well in an U21 game is nuts,nothing against Young but that is not his postion,especially when we had a CF on the pitch.
Lingaard did well last week as a #10,I was at the game and saw him run himself into the ground,however yesterday he should have been out wide to cover Rose as he has the the pace.Mata ended up really deep due to the fear of Rose running by him.
The decisions being made by LVG are becoming increasingly odd and at odds with any logic.

KH25

I think LVG just assumes any player can go in any position. It's the only answer I can come up with anyway.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/AlexShawESPN/status/719456559496093696

LVG at MUFC:
P94 W47 D24 L23

Games fallen behind in: 31
Games won from there: 6

(Includes Preston, Brugges and Midtjylland)