Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning link in OP 20/3

Leroy42

Lads, there is more chance of getting Lukaku or Kane then there is getting Pochettino.

A club going places, in the CL, a young dynamic team, starved of success and thus waiting for any messiah v's a team in turmoil, out of the CL, major squad problems, fans impatience and demands for success.

Seriously, if you were not a fan of Man Utd which would you choose?

Maybe in a year or two's time but to give up what he is on the brink of achieving in Spurs to start a rebuilding process (whether that is the squad or just the confidence)? Not going to happen.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/Rooney_esque/status/719640707221352449

GSPfan

I personally don't subscribe to any of the Mourinho short term stuff as I think its the clubs he has managed that have the short term mentality.

But its not just Mourinho leaving clubs after a few years that people moan about. Its the fact he seems to leave them with an ageing squad and invariably on a downward curve. Thats where all the talk of short term management comes from. Pochettino seems to leave clubs in great shape!

I have never ever said Mourinho's short term management history is an issue for me so I don't mind Pochettino's either. I'm hoping to god one of them comes in this Summer. They both have huge benefits to them.

GSPfan

Leroy42 wrote: »

Lads, there is more chance of getting Lukaku or Kane then there is getting Pochettino.

A club going places, in the CL, a young dynamic team, starved of success and thus waiting for any messiah v's a team in turmoil, out of the CL, major squad problems, fans impatience and demands for success.

Seriously, if you were not a fan of Man Utd which would you choose?

Maybe in a year or two's time but to give up what he is on the brink of achieving in Spurs to start a rebuilding process (whether that is the squad or just the confidence)? Not going to happen.

Completely disagree with the view there's little chance we could get him. We could get him. He'd just have to want to come. And if he is ambitious and thinks about his long term goals then I think he has a better chance of reaching them at United.

Management is mad. He could have a bad season next season and be sacked.

Plus he will be paid loads of money to move to United. Always helps.

bangkok

Highlights of the season

de Gea staying

Anthony Martial brilliance

Marcus Rashford

Timothy fosu-mensah

Borthwick Jackson

Smalling/Blind partnership

van gaal diving v Arsenal

KH25

bangkok wrote: »

Highlights of the season

de Gea staying

Anthony Martial brilliance

Marcus Rashford

Timothy fosu-mensah

Borthwick Jackson

Smalling/Blind partnership

van gaal diving v Arsenal

I really hope that next season we see Rashford, TFM and CBJ being used regularly. The ability and potential is there for sure.

Lord TSC

GSPfan wrote: »

I personally don't subscribe to any of the Mourinho short term stuff as I think its the clubs he has managed that have the short term mentality.

But its not just Mourinho leaving clubs after a few years that people moan about. Its the fact he seems to leave them with an ageing squad and invariably on a downward curve. Thats where all the talk of short term management comes from. Pochettino seems to leave clubs in great shape!

Oh yeah, not aiming at you in particular. Just in general.

As far as the ageing squad, I can't say I'm massively familiar with the squads he leaves behind, but I havent gotten the impression that, say, the current Chelsea squad is particularly old; the main core of the first team seems to be in their mid twenties. Can't say, looking at the Real Madrid squad he left behind, that they were massively ageing either (Ronaldo, Benzema, Ozil, DiMaria, Higiuin, Modric, Marcelo, Khedeira, etc). Would genuinely be interested in hearing more details about the criticism.

I'd argue the majority of managers tend to leave "on downwards spirals"; that tends to be a factor when a manager gets released. What would worry me about Poch is that his Southampton side, while left in good shape, hasn't replicated the successes this year without him (admittedly, they sold a few players). And I can't speak much about Espanyol; did their league position rise with him and stay? Did he leave them in a better shape? Again, genuinely, would like more details on that.

jayo26

The aging squad is a bad example it says alot that the core bunch of His chelsea team from his first time around were still there or just retiring when he left. Same with inter they still have some of his players and no point In using madrid as an example they are unique.

GSPfan

Lord TSC wrote: »

Oh yeah, not aiming at you in particular. Just in general.

As far as the ageing squad, I can't say I'm massively familiar with the squads he leaves behind, but I havent gotten the impression that, say, the current Chelsea squad is particularly old; the main core of the first team seems to be in their mid twenties. Can't say, looking at the Real Madrid squad he left behind, that they were massively ageing either (Ronaldo, Benzema, Ozil, DiMaria, Higiuin, Modric, Marcelo, Khedeira, etc). Would genuinely be interested in hearing more details about the criticism.

I'd argue the majority of managers tend to leave "on downwards spirals"; that tends to be a factor when a manager gets released. What would worry me about Poch is that his Southampton side, while left in good shape, hasn't replicated the successes this year without him (admittedly, they sold a few players). And I can't speak much about Espanyol; did their league position rise with him and stay? Did he leave them in a better shape? Again, genuinely, would like more details on that.

I wouldn't have the answers to those questions as I don't tend to agree with the criticism of Mourinho's short term management. I just read a lot of posts in here that use those factors as criticism against him. So if those same people are in favour for Pochettino as manager then i'd imagine they would use those common arguements to make a comparison.

Those questions would need to be answered by someone who is against Mourinho becoming manager. I am not. I like the idea of either of them replacing LVG.

On Pochettino, I havent googled it but I think Pochettino steered Espanyol away from relegation within a short period. I'll google it after i hit post to check.
Southampton were definitely improved under him. No doubt. And Spurs, if he left, are in the best shape I've ever seen them in.

*I just checked the Espanyol stuff. Saved them from relegation and stayed a few years, but left them in last place 13 games into a season before he left. So no real overall improvement. Maybe he stayed too long! Have no idea what condition the squad was in when he left. Wikipedia doesn't got that far into it.

Leroy42

Man Utd have kinda painted themselves into a corner at this stage.

If they stick with LVG, no matter what lucky breaks bring us in the next few weeks, many fans are just sick of the negative, dour rubbish they are being presented with and will feel very disheartened to have to face another season like this one.

Drp LVG and go for anybody else bar Jose and it will seem, like with Moyes, that we are going with the cheap option and the hope it works out. (which of course it may do)

With City getting Pep, Pool getting Klopp, my feeling that trying to sell anyone other than Jose will be a hard task and, IMO, only help increase the feeling that Utd are focused on the bottom line and doing 'just enough' rather than looking to get back on top.

It isn't that long ago that Utd were seen as up in the top tier of teams, Munich, Real, Barca. Now it seems we are content to fight for relevance in the PL. Choosing anyone other than Jose will only add to that image

Pro. F

Leroy42 wrote: »

Man Utd have kinda painted themselves into a corner at this stage.

If they stick with LVG, no matter what lucky breaks bring us in the next few weeks, many fans are just sick of the negative, dour rubbish they are being presented with and will feel very disheartened to have to face another season like this one.

Drp LVG and go for anybody else bar Jose and it will seem, like with Moyes, that we are going with the cheap option and the hope it works out. (which of course it may do)

With City getting Pep, Pool getting Klopp, my feeling that trying to sell anyone other than Jose will be a hard task and, IMO, only help increase the feeling that Utd are focused on the bottom line and doing 'just enough' rather than looking to get back on top.

It isn't that long ago that Utd were seen as up in the top tier of teams, Munich, Real, Barca. Now it seems we are content to fight for relevance in the PL. Choosing anyone other than Jose will only add to that image

If we don't go for Jose it will be because of his character, not his wages. Bobby Charlton is on record as being against having him at United because of his behaviour. It doesn't get more clear than that.

And since the club have made plenty of big money signings over the last few years, any fans who are complaining about the club being cheapskates would be doing that regardless of whether Mourinho was in charge or not.

Choosing managers (and signing players for that matter) based on how wealthy they make the club look is a bad idea.

GSPfan

Done a bit of reading about Pochettino and his time at Espanyol and its very interesting.

Apparently Espanyol became very cash strapped and Pochettino was tasked with producing players with the sole purpose of selling them on. He got used to seeing any decent player being sold to keep the club going. That's very interesting as the same thing happened at Southampton and maybe part of the reason he left Southampton when he could. You'd have to think that is one of the biggest headaches any manager has to deal with, having your best players sold every year.
Spurs have consistently shown themselves as a selling club (admittedly selling very well) so will that be a factor if a Manchester United or Real Madrid come calling for Pochettino?

secman

bangkok wrote: »

Highlights of the season

de Gea staying

Anthony Martial brilliance

Marcus Rashford

Timothy fosu-mensah

Borthwick Jackson

Smalling/Blind partnership

van gaal diving v Arsenal

I would personally make a contribution to LVG retirement fund... I'll get him a years subscription to Aqua Centre... the diving section of course

bucketybuck

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

LVG just rolled the dice the last day chancing Young up front

That's the same dice he rolled bringing on Nick Powell in the Champions League

The "I've had this team 2 years and don't know how to get them going" dice.

secman

Seems like "disrespecting" United when he charged up pitch side when Porto knocked us out of CL is not forgotten by some at club?

GSPfan

secman wrote: »

Seems like "disrespecting" United when he charged up pitch side when Porto knocked us out of CL is not forgotten by some at club?

Ah I wouldn't say that is even in anyones mind. Its his antics over the years with regards to eye pokes to people, insulting Wenger at every chance, undermining referees to the point of openly questioning their integrity, and the whole Chelsea team doctor fiasco which in my view was a disgrace.

He brings with him a certain amount of crazy. Some people don't like it. I personally think he is worth the effort but I can see why Charlton and maybe Ferguson don't want that at a club they are ambassadors for.

Mitch Connor

secman wrote: »

Seems like "disrespecting" United when he charged up pitch side when Porto knocked us out of CL is not forgotten by some at club?

I would be shocked if that had anything to do with it.

54and56

GSPfan wrote: »

Ah I wouldn't say that is even in anyones mind. Its his antics over the years with regards to eye pokes to people, insulting Wenger at every chance, undermining referees to the point of openly questioning their integrity, and the whole Chelsea team doctor fiasco which in my view was a disgrace.

He brings with him a certain amount of crazy. Some people don't like it. I personally think he is worth the effort but I can see why Charlton and maybe Ferguson don't want that at a club they are ambassadors for.

Jose is a bully. His methods work for 2-3 years but ultimately the people around him, staff, players, directors etc get sick of the way he treats them and down tools as happened this year with Chelsea. With his "mystique" gone I really wonder how he can turn around a club he doesn't know which has a much more entrenched set of structures and traditional style of playing when he couldn't turn around Chelsea where he was lord and master and had carte blanche to do as he liked.

I really don't think Jose is the manager he once was and with his recent failure at Chelsea I think a lot of players and staff will be uncertain about his authority and methods and that's a time bomb for failure.

Time will tell I guess.

Vic Vinegar

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Jose is a bully. His methods work for 2-3 years but ultimately the people around him, staff, players, directors etc get sick of the way he treats them and down tools as happened this year with Chelsea. With his "mystique" gone I really wonder how he can turn around a club he doesn't know which has a much more entrenched set of structures and traditional style of playing when he couldn't turn around Chelsea where he was lord and master and had carte blanche to do as he liked.

I really don't think Jose is the manager he once was and with his recent failure at Chelsea I think a lot of players and staff will be uncertain about his authority and methods and that's a time bomb for failure.

Time will tell I guess.

Erm, no he wasn't. The oil baron is lord and master there, come to think of it, he hasn't been fully in charge of any club he's been at as he's always been under owners who probably tell him who he can buy, except for Porto.

It would probably be different at United with little to no interference from the board.

IamtheWalrus

I bet Utd will be getting the low down on Jose from Chelsea connections. If they say he's a trouble maker, they'll stay clear. He's been there twice and if the same issues arose both times then that might be his style.

Liam McPoyle

secman wrote: »

Seems like "disrespecting" United when he charged up pitch side when Porto knocked us out of CL is not forgotten by some at club?

Ah here, of all the charges leveled at Jose, of all the reasons people have cited for not wanting him near the club, this is frankly the most preposterous of them all.

His team had just knocked out the heavy favourites, his team that many had written off as not having a chance against us.

If he had have stripped bollock naked and dunked his love spuds in Fergies beverage no body could blame him, never mind something as innocuous as running up the side like to celebrate.

As far as criticisms go thats bottom of the barrel by a country mile.

Cookie_Dough

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

I bet Utd will be getting the low down on Jose from Chelsea connections. If they say he's a trouble maker, they'll stay clear. He's been there twice and if the same issues arose both times then that might be his style.

Mata is in a crying heap outside Ed's office begging him not to hire Jose as we speak

I have a weird feeling that Jose is not as done and dusted as many seem to think. Not based on anything concrete other than the way the club have been carrying on so far ie. stalling on sacking LvG in Dec and also waiting until the final nail was in the coffin before sacking Moyes.

FutureGuy

secman wrote: »

Seems like "disrespecting" United when he charged up pitch side when Porto knocked us out of CL is not forgotten by some at club?

I would take even 1% of that passion in the next manager.

secman

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I would be shocked if that had anything to do with it.

SAF is such a forgiving man and doesn't hold a grudge !

Leroy42

I'm not sure that the collapse of Chelsea can be entirely laid at Jose's door. At the time he was sacked I was totally of that opinion, but since then the players haven't really been much better. Yes they had a non-losing streak but they just became slightly less abject rather than getting anywhere close to the year before.

Jose must shoulder the majority of the blame, The Dr. episode etc, but on the other side he seems to have maximised there ability in the previous year so credit must be given to what essentially looks akin to what SAF achieved in 2011.

Manutd_4life

Di Maria back in Manchester tonight.....

UnitedIrishman

jayo26 wrote: »

The aging squad is a bad example it says alot that the core bunch of His chelsea team from his first time around were still there or just retiring when he left. Same with inter they still have some of his players and no point In using madrid as an example they are unique.

Exactly, there's very little to suggest that he left an aging squad at any of the clubs that didn't already have a number of older players when he first arrived. He does try to sign players that are at their peak 23-27 that will make an impact immediately - which is what we need right now. When he was at Chelsea for his first spell all the players he signed were 26 or younger (including the likes of Robben, Cole, Cech who were all in their early 20's) whilst getting rid of the older generation. Same the second season - bringing in Essien, Del Horno, Wright-Phillips an Diarra.

I think at this stage the United players will happily settle for someone with a winning mentality that has relatively new ideas that won't treat them as numbers or chess pieces on a field.

IamtheWalrus

Leroy42 wrote: »

I'm not sure that the collapse of Chelsea can be entirely laid at Jose's door. At the time he was sacked I was totally of that opinion, but since then the players haven't really been much better. Yes they had a non-losing streak but they just became slightly less abject rather than getting anywhere close to the year before.

Jose must shoulder the majority of the blame, The Dr. episode etc, but on the other side he seems to have maximised there ability in the previous year so credit must be given to what essentially looks akin to what SAF achieved in 2011.

Antagonizing a dressing room twice doesn't bode well.

Mitch Connor

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Antagonizing a dressing room twice doesn't bode well.

Being screwed over with regards transfers is, apparently, a large part of the issue Mourinho had both times.

Shevchenko the first time round, Pedro and a couple of others (rather than Pogba/Stones) last time around.

I had said it to my chelsea supporting dad in the summer - Things were turning sour again and Jose wouldn't last the season.

Leroy42

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Antagonizing a dressing room twice doesn't bode well.

Antangonising a dressing room is never good, but that charge seems to be being laid at LVG at the moment as well.

SAF had plenty of run ins with players in his time.

Certainly the latest episode Jose left under a massive cloud with the team, but it seems the players had the wrong attitude going into the season.

Remember as well that Cech was sold to Arsenal, a direct opponent, against Jose stated wishes and that, IMO, was the trigger. He felt hard done by and lashed out. The players took this as a que to down tools, and haven't bothered to pick them up since.

IMO Chelsea have been a car crash waiting to happen and last year Jose managed to pull something out of the hat by dragging the team over the line. The last few years of mismangement of the club came crashing in on them this year.

I don't think you can use that to justify bypassing Jose, given the amazing CV, his knowledge of the EPL, his history of success.

Even Poch at Spurs, whilst looking very good, hasn't actually won anything and really should be closer to Leicster. As the other top teams have drifted back Spurs have been allowed wallow in this 'amazing' storyline yet in reality with all the other normal top teams out of the picture this was a perfect oppurtunity to win the EPL.

People go on about Arsenal wasting a great chance, which is true, but Spurs couldn't win the games against Arsenal, Liverpool and the loss to West Ham when the pressure was on.

bucketybuck

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Exactly, there's very little to suggest that he left an aging squad at any of the clubs that didn't already have a number of older players when he first arrived.

Its like most of the myths that people trot out about Mourinho, ie: not really based on fact.

bangkok

secman wrote: »

SAF is such a forgiving man and doesn't hold a grudge !

Fergie went into the porto dressing room after that game and congratulated all the players on their win

TheDoc

Manutd_4life wrote: »

Di Maria back in Manchester tonight.....

Hope someone strokes his luggage at the airport...pussy

IamtheWalrus

TheDoc wrote: »

Hope someone strokes his luggage at the airport...pussy

In his defence, he looked at the mess the place is in and said I'm outta here.

GSPfan

Leroy42 wrote: »

Even Poch at Spurs, whilst looking very good, hasn't actually won anything and really should be closer to Leicster. As the other top teams have drifted back Spurs have been allowed wallow in this 'amazing' storyline yet in reality with all the other normal top teams out of the picture this was a perfect oppurtunity to win the EPL.

People go on about Arsenal wasting a great chance, which is true, but Spurs couldn't win the games against Arsenal, Liverpool and the loss to West Ham when the pressure was on.

Not to get in a debate about Spurs in a United thread but thats not a logical or fair argument to make. Spurs are being talked about as having a great season because they are defensively and offensively the best team in the league and they have improved on last year in a league that seems to be getting tougher to win games in. It looks like the birth of a strong Title challenging team. Leicester are possibly pulling off the biggest shock in English football. Using that as a stick to beat every other team with is a bit much. Spurs and West Ham are having great seasons. Leicester are having a Rocky Balboa season. Not sure yet if its Rocky 1 or Rocky 2.

allybhoy

Leroy42 wrote: »

I'm not sure that the collapse of Chelsea can be entirely laid at Jose's door. At the time he was sacked I was totally of that opinion, but since then the players haven't really been much better.

They have done a lot better

Under Mourinho..

PL Games played 16, Points: 15, PPG:- 0.9

Under Hiddink..

PL Games played 16, Points: 29. PPG:- 1.8

If they had of played the first 16 games under Hiddink in the same manner they would currently be 3rd. When Mourinho left they were one point away from relegation zone, Newcastle were above them.

Billy86

Strumms wrote: »

A lot of people are using the whole.."well under this regime and style nobody is playing great" as a bit of a cop out when it comes to assessing the performance of a player in a particular game or over the course of a period of time. There is of course 'some' ring of truth to it but the reality is no matter if we had Winnie the Pooh as our manager football isn't an overly complicated game and it's not so hard to make a judgment.

I have always liked Carrick. He was very poor yesterday though and in a couple of other games I have watched. I think from watching him that he seems to have lost that bit of energy and he doesn't seem to have that same gas in the tank so to speak. He was always a box to boxish type player with a good engine who could get around the park and cut out through balls and effective in breaking up play as well as influencing his own side in terms of launching attacks from deep. This being maybe one reason why he might find it hard to adapt his game as he gets older and just maybe that is what is influencing his decline every bit as much as suffering under the LVG situation which lets face it everyone is.

To be honest, I just think he has gone a bit past it - very, very good player at his peak (not one to take over a midfield by force or genius, ala Keane or Scholes, but you could always rely on him to do his own job to a very high standard and allow those ahead of him to let loose as a result). I would have thought he might have aged a bit better given his biggest strength was breaking up and slowing down opposing attacks, getting rid of the best or most obvious passing lanes, and allowing the defense to get back in position and set - not what any of us expected really, when we signed him from Spurs (where he was in a role closer to post eye injury Scholes, or Pirlo), but it doesn't seem to be the case. All hypothetical of course, but I think a 20-something Carrick along with Schneiderlin and Herrera would form an excellent midfield trio.

All that said, we're likely not getting rid of Schweinsteiger this summer so I would at this point let Carrick walk. It would be interesting to see if he could land a role back at Spurs, or if not what level he would land at - West Ham could do very well to try and pick him up as well, given he was with them from about 16 - 23.

bangkok

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/10240193/manchester-united-value-falls-163400m-during-the-season

:eek:

Tom.D.BJJ

bangkok wrote: »

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/10240193/manchester-united-value-falls-163400m-during-the-season

:eek:

I dont know if i'd relate it all to football performance

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=1Y

Billy86

GSPfan wrote: »

Not to get in a debate about Spurs in a United thread but thats not a logical or fair argument to make. Spurs are being talked about as having a great season because they are defensively and offensively the best team in the league and they have improved on last year in a league that seems to be getting tougher to win games in. It looks like the birth of a strong Title challenging team. Leicester are possibly pulling off the biggest shock in English football. Using that as a stick to beat every other team with is a bit much. Spurs and West Ham are having great seasons. Leicester are having a Rocky Balboa season. Not sure yet if its Rocky 1 or Rocky 2.

Exactly, their overall play (Spurs) has been hugely improved and they look more balanced than I can ever remember them looking in 20+ years. They are on pace for 75 points, and are on pace for 28 goals conceded (currently 25) compared to totals of 51, 53 and 46 conceded the last 3 seasons. They are also on pace for 69 goals (currently 60), which is also an improvement on the last 3 years totals of 58, 61 and 68, though in an ideal world which could also improve by about another 15 or so again. They are just so much more solid and consistent than they have looked in the past, and seem to be a lot more mentally tough also. If they hold on to their important players, I wouldn't expect them to do anything other than improve by a further 5+ points again next year to get north of 80. Somewhere we haven't been since Ferguson retired.

Billy86

Mitch Connor wrote: »

One thing I find funny is that people say no to Mourinho because (amongst other things) he doesn't offer longevity - but want Pochetino - if we got him off Spurs, his club history would be a joke!

Not really, as his moves have all been steps up. Espanyol to Southampton was a little questionable on this front, but represented a move to a very well run club with excellent infrastructure and decent money (over 30mn sterling spent in his first season). The move to Spurs was a very obvious and direct step up to a CL-challenging team with some big name, established internationals. A move to Man Utd in terms of playing talent and where the two clubs are right now would not actually represent that, but he would be going from a team whose "league trophy" is finishing top four, to one of the probably three most recognisable clubs in the entire world.

Outside of his first two moves from Leiria to Porto, and then Porto to Chelsea, it's questionable how much of a step up the others were for Jose. Inter to Madrid could be called on too though, I guess. Which also brings up the question, if Poch came in and got us back to where we were 7-8 years ago... would he consider Madrid or Barca a big enough move up to go?

hufpc8w3adnk65

bangkok wrote: »

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/10240193/manchester-united-value-falls-163400m-during-the-season

:eek:

Ed and the Glazers won't be happy

Leroy42

MrMac84 wrote: »

Ed and the Glazers won't be happy

They will probably blame Rashford as well

tipperary

Yeah, but look at all the money they're saving by not sacking LVG...

xtal191

So looks like all three kits have leaked now

dr.kenneth noisewater

White one looks like a Germany kit

Rayne Wooney

It's sad to say Di Maria left out of ambition looking at him playing in a CL quarter final

The club is in a serious mess

Strumms

Like the home and the white kit although maybe that could have been a bit nicer again with some red trim. Not a fan at all of the blue one though.

jayo26

Ronaldo is just fantastic, fuken love him.

Rossi IRL

xtal191 wrote: »

So looks like all three kits have leaked now

Red is meh

Blue is nasty

White could do with a few red dots mixed in with the black dots and 1 red stripe in the middle of the 3 black stripes. Would be nice then imho

They look tight fitting, wouldnt be a fan of that