Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning link in OP 20/3

Adamocovic

Sand wrote: »

I think Rooney is done as a first team player at the top level. LVG bet his season on Rooney being the main man able to deliver 20-25 PL goals this season. That will very likely cost LVG his job in the summer.

Whoever is managing United next season, they will (hopefully) not rely on a triumvirate of an over the hill Rooney, a promising teenager and a potentially world class 20 year old to get them goals over a long PL season.

Why is it that a player is labelled "done" the minute he hits 30 these days. :rolleyes:

Even in a poor season Rooney has already scored the same amount of goals he did last season. He may not be banging in 20 goals a season (something he has only done 4 times in his career I think). In his career (this season excluded) he has averaged 0.48 goals/game ratio, this season he has 0.42 goal/game ratio (still games to go) hardly alarm bells ringing of him being done as a player.

Maybe I am biased because I'm a fan, but I do think he still has a bag of talent, some of his passes even today in build up for goal are brilliance, and I do believe that any top manager could make the most of his talents.

If LVG is sacked Rooney didn't cost him his job, what would have cost him his job is going in extremely light in squad depth (injuries highlighted that a lot), tactics and not being able to get the best out of his players.

And although I disagree with the idea that Rooney is done and cant provide a job in the first team I do agree we need to add striking power. 100% agree as most will. We went into this season with only really 2 striking options and got lucky Rashford shone.

Been a very poor season and I can't see us nabbing top 4, hopefully we can go onto the final of the FA cup and actually give ourselves a chance to end the season with somewhat of a positive.

Giggsy11

d22ontour wrote: »

A lot of them only featured 'yet proved up to the task' due to inept squad management by LVG. We can only hope they see at least the same amount of game time when he is replaced.

It would be terrible waste of money if they don't. We have to pay good money to sign even squad players, these players are good enough at least to be a squad players.

Also promoting youth player to first team is tough task, once they are done and show what they are capable of, it would be such a waste not to give them chances.

d22ontour

Rashford epitomizes everything about the club in regards to promoting youth but his involvement was due to injuries and inept squad management because of the manager, Fusu Mensah is pretty much in the same boat and is easily good enough to be in the squad as we have seen.
It wasn't a masterstroke by LVG to involve them but thankfully for us they were and at least this season has offered us a glimmer of hope for the future...

Giggsy11

d22ontour wrote: »

Rashford epitomizes everything about the club in regards to promoting youth but his involvement was due to injuries and inept squad management because of the manager, Fusu Mensah is pretty much in the same boat and is easily good enough to be in the squad as we have seen.
It wasn't a masterstroke by LVG to involve them but thankfully for us they were and at least this season has offered us a glimmer of hope for the future...

That debate is done numerous times.

XR3i

give lvg a chance

Lord TSC

Bild in Germany saying Jose has signed a contract with...

Manchester United

Edit: to add, they are presenting it as a fact. Not that it might happen. That it has happened.

GSPfan

Ugh, this LVG saga just wont end. I wish this season was over already so we can know if he is going or not.

twinex

Giggsy11 wrote: »

That debate is done numerous times.

Most 'debates' have been done numerous times. This, and most other forums are just one constant regurgitation of opinion until there's a defining moment. That's football.

Giggsy11

twinex wrote: »

Most 'debates' have been done numerous times. This, and most other forums are just one constant regurgitation of opinion until there's a defining moment. That's football.

Never gonna happen :pac:

hufpc8w3adnk65

Lord TSC wrote: »

Bild in Germany saying Jose has signed a contract with...

Manchester United

Edit: to add, they are presenting it as a fact. Not that it might happen. That it has happened.

Please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please

The_Kew_Tour

Ya not even worried.

Next 6 weeks or so will be crap but short term pain for long term gain

Liam McPoyle

MrMac84 wrote: »

Please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please

Rumour in some of the rags that the potential new billionaire owners of Everton want Jose to replace Martinez....

Giggsy11

http://www.bild.de/wa/ll/bild-de/unangemeldet-42925516.bild.html

This is the Bild article.

GSPfan

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

Rumour in some of the rags that the potential new billionaire owners of Everton want Jose to replace Martinez....

They can want all they like. Jose wont be Everton manager next season.

He may not be Uniteds manager either but he will be offered jobs several levels above Everton.

bucketybuck

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Also promoting youth player to first team is tough task, once they are done and show what they are capable of, it would be such a waste not to give them chances.

I wonder what Varela thinks of Valencia going ahead of him at full back again, or Borthwick-Jackson thinks of how Rojo is doing at left back? Both seem to be available again, will Van Gaal play them when he doesn't have to?

I'd give more credit to Van Gaal if he played these kids ahead of senior options, not just when he has no other choice.

Giggsy11

bucketybuck wrote: »

I wonder what Varela thinks of Valencia going ahead of him at full back again, or Borthwick-Jackson thinks of how Rojo is doing at left back? Both seem to be available again, will Van Gaal play them when he doesn't have to?

I'd give more credit to Van Gaal if he played these kids ahead of senior options, not just when he has no other choice.

Promoting youth player doesn't work that way. You just have to read what Fergie said years back about how the player is integrated to the first team.

Also not sure why you quoted my post as I was talking about giving them chances in the first team not making them key player and undroppable. It was more towards Jose and squad next season.

gosplan

MrMac84 wrote: »

Please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please

Is it because it's someone new that isn't LVG or because it's Jose?

I still say it won't end well. It will be entertaining for the neutral with Jose vrs Pep in Manchester but to be honest it will end the exceptional status of Utd. Jose will drag them down.

Headshot

Giggsy11 wrote: »

http://www.bild.de/wa/ll/bild-de/unangemeldet-42925516.bild.html

This is the Bild article.

Can't find that on their site. What was it about?

bucketybuck

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Promoting youth player doesn't work that way. You just have to read what Fergie said years back about how the player is integrated to the first team.

Ideally you integrate young players, but one of the few things people praised Van Gaal for was his use of youth players when in fact he wasn't handling them well at all. Even the continued overuse of Rashford is dangerous in my opinion, that lad could do with a rest and certainly Fergie would not have integrated him in this fashion.

But my point was that when defending Van Gaals youth policy, the debate was whether he played the kids because of some strategic vision or simply because he had no other choice. One way to judge that is if he plays these kids when the senior players are available.

Giggsy11

Headshot wrote: »

Can't find that on their site. What was it about?

Even I got ad block error.

It's about Jose signing 3 year contract with ManUtd and Zlatan is his first target.

Giggsy11

bucketybuck wrote: »

Ideally you integrate young players, but one of the few things people praised Van Gaal for was his use of youth players when in fact he wasn't handling them well at all. Even the continued overuse of Rashford is dangerous in my opinion, that lad could do with a rest and certainly Fergie would not have integrated him in this fashion.

But my point was that when defending Van Gaals youth policy, the debate was whether he played the kids because of some strategic vision or simply because he had no other choice. One way to judge that is if he plays these kids when the senior players are available.

He played kids because he had no players available.
He had no players available because he wanted thin squad.
He wanted thin squad because that's how he gives young players chances and he said it at least 3-4 times.

Like I said, same points are repeated again and again and we have done it multiple times. To save time, we can just copy paste the same posts from month or 2 back.

Flint Fredstone

Fosu Mensah played ahead of Darmian/Valencia fairly recently. Lingard has played ahead of a number of senior players at times throughout the season.
I can't understand why he has Rojo ahead of CBJ but he probably has his reasons. Varela is a great option going forward but I'm not convinced defensively.

If the players are good enough in his eyes they will play. He obviously sees the game in his own peculiar way.

gosplan

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Even I got ad block error.

It's about Jose signing 3 year contract with ManUtd and Zlatan is his first target.

That would be so so bad for the club.

About the most short term approach you could possibly find.

Bye bye Martial and Rashford.

DM_7

gosplan wrote: »

That would be so so bad for the club.

About the most short term approach you could possibly find.

Bye bye Martial and Rashford.

They could all play in the same team though

Flint Fredstone

gosplan wrote: »

That would be so so bad for the club.

About the most short term approach you could possibly find.

Bye bye Martial and Rashford.

We heard you the first time.

bucketybuck

Giggsy11 wrote: »

He played kids because he had no players available.
He had no players available because he wanted thin squad.
He wanted thin squad because that's how he gives young players chances and he said it at least 3-4 times.

And do you consider that a good model for youth development? It certainly wasn't a good strategy in terms of a successful first team but did it help the kids? Was getting thrown in at the deep end and then jettisoned again good for the likes of Januzaj, Wilson, Varela, Jackson, McNair?

You don't have to answer of course, I wouldn't ask you to repeat yourself.

gosplan

DM_7 wrote: »

They could all play in the same team though

Not for Jose. No hope. He'd hate both of those players, especially with Ibra at CF.

I'd say the Ibra thing is nonsense though.

DM_7

gosplan wrote: »

Not for Jose. No hope. He'd hate both of those players, especially with Ibra at CF.

I'd say the Ibra thing is nonsense though.

Why would he hate Martial?

Lord TSC

DM_7 wrote: »

Why would he hate Martial?

Cause apparently Jose hates anyone who can't drink yet.... :rolleyes:

gosplan

DM_7 wrote: »

Why would he hate Martial?

He wouldn't fit anywhere in Jose's system.

DM_7

Lord TSC wrote: »

Cause apparently Jose hates anyone who can't drink yet.... :rolleyes:

Oh right, does that extend to a think 25 policy? Just to be safe.

DM_7

gosplan wrote: »

He wouldn't fit anywhere in Jose's system.

Yes he would.

Up front, or out wide like he has played all this season.

gosplan

DM_7 wrote: »

Yes he would.

Up front, or out wide like he has played all this season.

Up front he's never be first choice. Out wide as long as he defends first.

Sorry but Martial just doesn't fit Jose.

Anyway, we'll probably disagree till it happens.

yes there

bucketybuck wrote:

Ideally you integrate young players, but one of the few things people praised Van Gaal for was his use of youth players when in fact he wasn't handling them well at all. Even the continued overuse of Rashford is dangerous in my opinion, that lad could do with a rest and certainly Fergie would not have integrated him in this fashion.

So you're advocating he drops our most inform player when we are fighting for a champions League spot? Im sorry but that is just ridiculous. By that same token is martial being overplayed?

Both he and Mensah should be playing everygame we have left.

Giggsy11

gosplan wrote: »

Up front he's never be first choice. Out wide as long as he defends first.

Sorry but Martial just doesn't fit Jose.

Anyway, we'll probably disagree till it happens.

Yes because Ronaldo, Ozil, Hazard, Robben all are defend first players.

So many myths and wrong points are made about Jose it's unreal.

Giggsy11

bucketybuck wrote: »

And do you consider that a good model for youth development? It certainly wasn't a good strategy in terms of a successful first team but did it help the kids? Was getting thrown in at the deep end and then jettisoned again good for the likes of Januzaj, Wilson, Varela, Jackson, McNair?

You don't have to answer of course, I wouldn't ask you to repeat yourself.

That model worked for him through his career. Thin squad and using young players as cover.

Sometimes dropping young players help them to improve. They get time off and realise where they are going wrong. Not an unheard strategy. It is used even for senior players.

Whether it's a good stratgey or not, I don't know. All the players you mentioned are at club and still have future in the club. Just because they are not playing week in week out doesn't mean they are gone.

I don't agree with many of his decisions but credit where it's due. He wanted thin squad and that's the reason why kids are getting chances. That's his method and it worked well for him in the past.

bucketybuck

yes there wrote: »

So you're advocating he drops our most inform player when we are fighting for a champions League spot? Im sorry but that is just ridiculous. By that same token is martial being overplayed?

Both he and Mensah should be playing everygame we have left.

I think he shouldn't be putting the burden of this seasons success on the shoulders of an 18 year old, that isn't youth development and it isn't fair on the lad. Respect to Rashford for coping with the pressure very well but we shouldn't be in this situation.

It also highlights how our expectations have nosedived of course. Flog an 18 year old to try and get 4th place, how the mighty have fallen.

yes there

bucketybuck wrote:

I think he shouldn't be putting the burden of this seasons success on the shoulders of an 18 year old, that isn't youth development and it isn't fair on the lad. Respect to Rashford for coping with the pressure very well but we shouldn't be in this situation.

bucketybuck wrote:

It also highlights how our expectations have nosedived of course. Flog an 18 year old to try and get 4th place, how the mighty have fallen.

Id tend to agree with you on that sentiment but that is the situation he has left us in. At the minute they seem to be coping well with the pressure, in fact revelling in it. Normally it is very evident when a player like that should be taken out for a while. I dont think we have come to that point yet.

Korat

I'm very much in the pro-Mourinho camp. I'd have preferred Ancelotti, Klopp or Guardiola but he's the best option available now.

There are some people here who seem fundamentally opposed to Mourinho coming in. I'm curious as to whether those with resevations will get behind him if he gets the job. It could get very tedious listening to people bitch about the new manager before a ball is kicked next season.

gosplan

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Yes because Ronaldo, Ozil, Hazard, Robben all are defend first players.

So many myths and wrong points are made about Jose it's unreal.

It's slightly different when you include world class attacking players.

Giggsy11

Korat wrote: »

I'm very much in the pro-Mourinho camp. I'd have preferred Ancelotti, Klopp or Guardiola but he's the best option available now.

There are some people here who seem fundamentally opposed to Mourinho coming in. I'm curious as to whether those with resevations will get behind him if he gets the job. It could get very tedious listening to people bitch about the new manager before a ball is kicked next season.

It will be tedious. Every game there will be arguments on why so and so young player didn't start, if we dont have young player making debut every other game then his trust in youth academy will be questioned.

And when we draw game or play out 0-0 then boring Jose will be debated.

bucketybuck

yes there wrote: »

Id tend to agree with you on that sentiment but that is the situation he has left us in. At the minute they seem to be coping well with the pressure, in fact revelling in it. Normally it is very evident when a player like that should be taken out for a while. I dont think we have come to that point yet.

To clarify, I don't think Rashford should have been used the way he was, it would have been better for both he and Martial to have been given time out of the limelight before now.

At this stage it is a moot point though, with only a few games left and the damage done we may as well keep them in the team till the end. Of course the same logic should apply to the likes of Borthwick Jackson and Varela, with only a few games left why not just give them more chances instead of putting Valencia straight back in?

Smegball

I have always found the boring football jibes pretty baffling for Mourinho. They were excellent to watch in his first spell under Chelsea with the likes of Lampard, Drogba, Duff and Robben.

They played some nice stuff under Inter as well, under Real they played some great football scoring a lot of goals.

First six months in the second spell and everyone was lavishing praise on their football with Hazard, Costa and Fabregas purring. The second half of the season they ground out a lot of victorys yes - but sure aren't Leicester doing the exact same now and even ourselves under SAF did the same at the tail of end of seasons. Sign of a sensible manager to me. Rodgers/Wenger anyone?

People always cite his park the bus mentality in big games but again keeping it tight and playing on the counter is more often than not how we won the majority of our big games under SAF away from home as well.

De Bruyne and Lukaku are thrown up recently but I don't think it is as clear cut as we all are led to believe. Both look like a huge mistake now but both had tough competition at the time to compete with. I'm sure Mourinho wanted both to stay (I remember reading somewhere he did) but he allowed them to leave as were their wishes. I distinctly remember people saying Chelsea were such a well run club at the time for selling both for pretty substantial fees.

Hindsight is a b*tch at times

Giggsy11

gosplan wrote: »

It's slightly different when you include world class attacking players.

Robben, Hazard weren't world class when Chelsea signed them. Joe Cole wasn't a defensive winger, even Balotelli as winger.

Again this is used against him because he played Willian and sold Mata.

Any more examples where he sold very talented player because he didn't track back?

I can give few examples at least where he played attack minded players in the midfield and in the defense

gosplan

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Robben, Hazard weren't world class whenChelsea signed him. Joe Cole wasn't a defensive winger, even Balotelli as winger.

Again this is used against him because he played Willian and sold Mata.

Any more examples where he sold very talented player because he didn't track back?

I can give few examples at least where he played attack minded players in the midfield and in the defense

OK. We'll just take it that you're correct and that he'll be perfectly happy to give Martial and Rashford game time.

Cantona's Collars

Giggsy11 wrote: »

It will be tedious. Every game there will be arguments on why so and so young player didn't start, if we dont have young player making debut every other game then his trust in youth academy will be questioned.

And when we draw game or play out 0-0 then boring Jose will be debated.

If the young players are good enough,they'll play.Plus I'd take a 0-0 in a big game now and then just so long as we are winning games handily against the so called beatable te ams.
Jose has done this in the past,hammer a team 5-0 then be a bit more cagey against the big boys,so long as he didn't lose the game he was happy.
United at present could barely dispatch a woeful Villa,Everton who were muck and so on-we could add any mid-table,relegation fodder team to that list,is anyone saying our current team under Jose would be having similar results?

glued

gosplan wrote: »

Up front he's never be first choice. Out wide as long as he defends first.

Sorry but Martial just doesn't fit Jose.

Anyway, we'll probably disagree till it happens.

That's not true. Jose tends to dislike players who can't defend or don't track back but he will obviously allow a player like Martial to do whatever he wants. He wouldn't be joining the club if he was going to marginalise our talented attackers becuase they can't defend. Jose has even addressed this point himself in past few weeks.

I think Jose with a leash and a DoF could be an excellent appointment. I was against it at one point but there aren't any managers of his calibre available.

Giggsy11

gosplan wrote: »

OK. We'll just take it that you're correct and that he'll be perfectly happy to give Martial and Rashford game time.

Why would any manager not play Martial. It's not he is defensively weak either. He has showed plenty of times that he is more than willing to help his full back and IIRC he best showed it against Everton playing as winger.

Giggsy11

zerks wrote: »

If the young players are good enough,they'll play.Plus I'd take a 0-0 in a big game now and then just so long as we are winning games handily against the so called beatable te ams.
Jose has done this in the past,hammer a team 5-0 then be a bit more cagey against the big boys,so long as he didn't lose the game he was happy.
United at present could barely dispatch a woeful Villa,Everton who were muck and so on-we could add any mid-table,relegation fodder team to that list,is anyone saying our current team under Jose would be having similar results?

I agree with everything. I'm just guessing what will happen next season if Jose is our manager.

For a record, I would love to see him as ManUtd manager.

Korat

gosplan wrote: »

OK. We'll just take it that you're correct and that he'll be perfectly happy to give Martial and Rashford game time.

He's not Arsene Wenger, he'll do whatever it takes to win trophies.

It's all very well nurturing young talent but what was the point if you don't win anything and they end up leaving in pursuit of success?