Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning link in OP 20/3

DARK-KNIGHT

M!Ck^ wrote: »

It's not really "Jose hate"

People are giving consistent reasons why Jose shouldn't take over, doesnt mean they hate him

On the point of Higuan, I don't agree.

Not good enough IMO

higuain is not good enough? jesus he is better than rooney at least. The way our squad has been performing has been terrible.

maybe jose hate was too much but still best option available imo.

jayo26

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Jose signed many players for long term. It's not hard to see, simple search and you can see all his signings. He has signed many players who are below 25-26.

Thats what i said

DARK-KNIGHT

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

higuain is not good enough? jesus he is better than rooney at least. The way our squad has been performing has been terrible.

maybe jose hate was too much but still best option available imo.

We should be aiming far higher than Higain, I just don't rate him all that much. has a good scoring record this season but untested in England.
We should be building a team around a top class striker IMO

Is he better than Rooney? That's debatable also.

As a side note: I'm interested to know what happens Rooney if Jose does take over..Jose has long been fond of him.

DARK-KNIGHT

M!Ck^ wrote: »

We should be aiming far higher than Higain, I just don't rate him all that much

Is he better than Rooney? That's debatable also.

As a side note: I'm interested to know what happens Rooney if Jose does take over..Jose has long been fond of him.

rooney on form is better ill agree, but when is the last time we saw him consistently good and scoring for fun?

will be interesting though would jose have the balls to come in and sell the club captain lol

Giggsy11

jayo26 wrote: »

Thats what i said

I supported your view.

Liam O

When Higuain was leaving Real I'd have been all over him. Now, not so much. I've said all along that a player capable of running with the ball from deep is far more important than a striker. I'd personally just play Martial there and give Memphis the chance on the wing and focus on spending a wedge on a world class right sided forward who could make a huge difference.

IMO it's very hard to diagnose the problems at United because there's nobody who I'd consider who's overly underperformed, it's been more as a unit the last 2 seasons. When the setup has been correct the team has put in some great performances. Carrick, Herrera and Fellaini barely seeing any gametime together this season after being far and away the best partnership when they did last season.

Schneiderlin is someone I'm really worried about. He doesn't appear to have the intelligence of a top level midfielder and his positioning is awful. He has been the source of an awful lot of defensive lapses this season. Obviously willing to give him another year but his best position isn't as the deep midfielder imo.

54and56

Liam O wrote: »

overly underperformed

:eek:

Lord TSC

M!Ck^ wrote: »

As a side note: I'm interested to know what happens Rooney if Jose does take over..Jose has long been fond of him.

Am also interested; the line keeps getting trotted out that Jose likes him, and it seems to come from when he tried to sign him a few years back. But that was a good few years ago, and Rooney's form hasn't been stellar since then.

jayo26

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

:eek:

What he is trying to say is that individually we have a good team they have put in somebgood performances but as a unit and tactically The team is all over the shop but when we have got it right we have looked great.

Id use blind as an example why like he aint a naturally gifted centerback he has shown some class interceptions while also has been caught out of position at the wrong time.

Against villa he made a blinder of a tackle in the 86th minute while his positioning been caught forward can be solved by the manager and coaches telling him and coaching him not to be surging forward at wrong times.

Schneiderlin is the opposite we all know he can be a top class midfielder but he is been choked by lvg using him as a deep midfielder and been told to keep possession above all else.

Liam O

Lord TSC wrote: »

Am also interested; the line keeps getting trotted out that Jose likes him, and it seems to come from when he tried to sign him a few years back. But that was a good few years ago, and Rooney's form hasn't been stellar since then.

Conversely there are countless articles talking about how he is going to sell Fellaini but last season he was calling him United's most dangerous player and basing his gameplan around stopping him. Given his use of Mikel over the years you'd think a good squad midfielder with a bit of bite would be high up on his list of retainees.

Cantona's Collars

Lord TSC wrote: »

Am also interested; the line keeps getting trotted out that Jose likes him, and it seems to come from when he tried to sign him a few years back. But that was a good few years ago, and Rooney's form hasn't been stellar since then.

Rooney contibuted ZERO league points in the first half of the season.He had 1 assist in the league before January.

Rashford's played only 7 PL games so far and has already contributed more points than Rooney. Rooney's been terrible overall. Last calendar year he's scored only 5 league goals from open play.

Korat

It's a pretty disfunctional group at the moment. Rashford and Martial recently has been the closest thing to a working partnership in the team. The heart of the defence, Blind, Smalling and De Gea have had a lot games together but it's alarming how quickly panic and indecision can set in among them. The balance just isn't right. The squad seems unbalanced in general which is mainly due to Van Gaal's influence despite all his talk about balance.

I think a leader at CB, a CM and a right sided attacker/winger are definitely needed but it's as important to find players who'll compliment what we have already or the shopping list just gets longer.

Liam O

zerks wrote: »

Rooney contibuted ZERO league points in the first half of the season.He had 1 assist in the league before January.

Rashford's played only 7 PL games so far and has already contributed more points than Rooney. Rooney's been terrible overall. Last calendar year he's scored only 5 league goals from open play.

You judge points contributed to purely by goals?

It was clear Rooney was out of form but surely his form around the turn of the year would indicate that he still has a lot to offer. I know who I'd be starting between him and Rashford if there was a cup final this week tbh...

Leroy42

Liam O wrote: »

You judge points contributed to purely by goals?

It was clear Rooney was out of form but surely his form around the turn of the year would indicate that he still has a lot to offer. I know who I'd be starting between him and Rashford if there was a cup final this week tbh...

It would have to be Rashford. Maybe bring on Rooney in the second half if Rashford is finding it tough/tiring but there is simply no arguement to make that in a straight choice Rashford shouldn't get it.

Based on history and wishes, then Rooney everytime, but based on this year Rashford walks it.

UnitedIrishman

Lord TSC wrote: »

Am also interested; the line keeps getting trotted out that Jose likes him, and it seems to come from when he tried to sign him a few years back. But that was a good few years ago, and Rooney's form hasn't been stellar since then.

The only issue I have with this is that when other players have been terrible under the last two managers, it's because the manager has been poor - when Rooney is poor then it's down to Rooney. I think in the right system with the right supply Rooney could find his form again.

Jayop

zerks wrote: »

Rooney contibuted ZERO league points in the first half of the season.He had 1 assist in the league before January.

Rashford's played only 7 PL games so far and has already contributed more points than Rooney. Rooney's been terrible overall. Last calendar year he's scored only 5 league goals from open play.

Erm, I did this on another forum a few weeks ago (April 5) so I'd have to update it since he's played games since then.

Rooney 2015/16 P28 G12 A4 G/A per game = 0.57

Rooneys have resulted in 29 points for United. Most of those were goals that mattered in games where we won by the odd goal or he scored a few in a bigger scoreline.

Now I would have been counting cup wins as 3 points because I wasn't just referring to the league.

His goals/assists this year have been in the following games...

Bruge - G3 - All goals in win.
Ipswich - G1 - First goal in win
Sunderland - G1 - Second goal in 3 nil win
Everton - G1 - Third goal in 3 nil win
CSKA - G1 - Only goal in win
Norwich - A1 - Only assist in loss
Swansea - G1 - Winning goal in 2-1 win
Sheffield - G1 - Only goal in win
Newcastle - G2 A1 - 2 goals and an assist in 3-3 draw
Liverpool - G1 - Only goal in win
Derby - G1 - Opening goal in 3-1 win
Stoke - G1 A1 - goal and assist in 3-0 win
Chelsea - A1 - Assist in 1-1 draw


There's no doubt he's been better in the cups this year but I do think it's really harsh to overly criticise his contribution this season. The team have been crap and our attacking players are all coming in for severe criticism apart from Martial and rashford.

A new manager, suitable tactics and freeing up the forward players to actually go out and do what they are capable of will make them all look much better.

Leroy42

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

The only issue I have with this is that when other players have been terrible under the last two managers, it's because the manager has been poor - when Rooney is poor then it's down to Rooney. I think in the right system with the right supply Rooney could find his form again.

The problem with that is that all the natural indications (age, speed etc) were due to decline regardless. I think you are right in that the last two managers haven't helped but I don't think it is reasonable to expect Rooney to ever regain the lost ground.

He may well perform better but time is not his ally here and he has always been prone to bouts of terrible form. Experience would suggest that as an player ages those bouts become linger

Lord TSC

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

The only issue I have with this is that when other players have been terrible under the last two managers, it's because the manager has been poor - when Rooney is poor then it's down to Rooney. I think in the right system with the right supply Rooney could find his form again.

Leroy42 wrote: »

The problem with that is that all the natural indications (age, speed etc) were due to decline regardless. I think you are right in that the last two managers haven't helped but I don't think it is reasonable to expect Rooney to ever regain the lost ground.

He may well perform better but time is not his ally here and he has always been prone to bouts of terrible form. Experience would suggest that as an player ages those bouts become linger

Too add to Leroy's post, I'd accept the manager thing is part of the problem, but it still doesn't excuse the entirety of the issues with Rooney. Whereas others can place some blame on their youth or it being their first season with the club, Rooney's performances have still fallen down the rankings. There are several players who are having poor seasons and yet still easily out-preforming Rooney. Martial and Rashford, the latter of whom has only been playing with us since February, have had significantly bigger impacts than Rooney.

Rooney, imo, asks to be held to a higher standard than other players; he is the captain and leader, who demands the largest salary of anyone else on the field. And while he's entitled to demand such things, so too does he have to accept the larger responsibilities that come with them.

Strumms

What we need is about 4 signings of proven quality who will make an immediate impact. That's if we don't ship anybody out. Going on the basis that we will keep De Gea, this is what I personally would like to see over the summer in terms of in and out...

KEEPERS :

No change...

Options : DDG, Romero, Johnstone

DEFENSE :

Out : Jones, Blackett, Varela (loan), McNair (loan)
In : Varene (or other established world class CB).

Options : Smalling, Varene, Blind, Rojo, Darmian, Fosu-Mensah, Valencia, Shaw, CBJ. This should give us ample cover across all 4 positions with recall options on Varela and McNair in case of an epidemic of injuries.

MIDFIELD :

Out : None. Ok I'd be toying with the idea of Carrick but I think his experience would greatly be valued and he could be deployed sparsely
In : World Class ball carrying midfielder ie a younger Carrick.

Option : Herrera, Carrick, Schweinsteiger Fellaini, Schniederlin (needs a big season, borderline out for me) + new signing.

ATTACKING MF :

Out : Young, Lingard - Just think when we eventually return to our best he will be a squad player at best and due to options I'd sacrifice him.
In : Griezmann

Options : Martial, Memphis, Mata, Griezmann (or other), Januzaj,

STRIKERS :

Outs : None
In's : 1 world class proven striker

Options : Rashford, Rooney, AN Other,

Lot's of players can play more then one position but that's a core list of about 25 or so players there which given injuries and suspensions I think is appropriate. Have not included the lesser lights such as Powell etc or some of the up and comers like Weir and Love who will most likely be out on loan but if we that that kind of business over the summer I'd be happy as long as those who came in are good enough for our ambitions and do the business...

Jayop

I'd mostly agree with you there Strumms apart from Varela who has been very good when played and I'd keep him at the club and Lingard who I think is already valuable as a squad player when played in the correct position.

I said it before, I don't really see the value in loaning players out. If they're good enough to play then give them games at United and hold on to them, coach them right and let them prove themselves at the stage we need to see them at. If they're not then just move them on.

I honestly can't think of too many circumstances where loaning a player out has in the long run benefited United's first team. I can think of loads of times a young lad has gone away on loan and it's had the converse effect on their career. Apart from Beckham who had a short loan spell I don't think any of our greatest generation of young players were loaned out.

Sebastian Dangerfield

Strumms wrote: »

ATTACKING MF :

Out : Young, Lingard - Just think when we eventually return to our best he will be a squad player at best and due to options I'd sacrifice him.
In : Griezmann

Options : Martial, Memphis, Mata, Griezmann (or other), Januzaj,

On what basis would you keep Januzaj, but sell Lingard? Neither are world beaters but one has contributed goals and assists this season. The other can barely make the first team squad

Strumms

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

On what basis would you keep Januzaj, but sell Lingard? Neither are world beaters but one has contributed goals and assists this season. The other can barely make the first team squad

Reasonable question. To be honest I wouldn't be crying if he was moved on particularly or indeed if Jesse stayed with us.

My own reasoning is.... Adnan is 21 and people have forgotten a little as to his potential due a dip in form and a very badly advised loan move to Dortmund. He is still a young player and if he was struggling for game time for whatever reason it was always going to be a mistake moving onto a team that are in and around the same level at present as ourselves. I think he has plenty more to offer under a new manager and I'd give him another season to prove he is worthy of staying with us. Not so long ago there were clubs falling over themselves to prize him away from us.

Again, with Lingard, no issue with him staying as a squad player but I think he has shown to me that maybe that is all he might be. He is 23 now and despite not being that old he is very inconsistent and I don't think he has the overall ability to change games or just be at the level we should aspire to on a consistent basis. I like the guy , he works his arse off but I don't think he has the quality overall. Happy to be proved wrong of course but I'd give Adnan another shot.

bucketybuck

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Some of us are giving consistent reasons why Jose shouldn't take over, doesnt mean hate!

The biggest problem is that most of those consistent reasons aren't actually accurate, for example the constant refrain that he is a boring defensive coach despite his teams consistently scoring the most goals every year. Or the claim that he won't like players such as Martial or Depay, despite players like Robben, Sneijder, Ronaldo and Hazard flourishing under his management.

Even the most accepted of the myths, the idea that "Jose doesn't do long term" isn't exactly built on solid ground. Not only because he stays around just as long as any other modern manager, but because the myth ignores one simple concept, the idea that just perhaps the 53 year old Mourinho does in fact want to stay and cement a legacy at a club such as United. Its tailor made for him to stay longer at the club but no, because the circuses at Madrid and Chelsea sacked him then Jose doesn't do long term...

I've no problem with anybody who just flat out says they don't like the guy, but the common reasons people use to try and justify their dislike just don't really hold water.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

bucketybuck wrote: »

The biggest problem is that most of those consistent reasons aren't actually accurate, for example the constant refrain that he is a boring defensive coach despite his teams consistently scoring the most goals every year. Or the claim that he won't like players such as Martial or Depay, despite players like Robben, Sneijder, Ronaldo and Hazard flourishing under his management.

Even the most accepted of the myths, the idea that "Jose doesn't do long term" isn't exactly built on solid ground. Not only because he stays around just as long as any other modern manager, but because the myth ignores one simple concept, the idea that just perhaps the 53 year old Mourinho does in fact want to stay and cement a legacy at a club such as United. Its tailor made for him to stay longer at the club but no, because the circuses at Madrid and Chelsea sacked him then Jose doesn't do long term...

I've no problem with anybody who just flat out says they don't like the guy, but the common reasons people use to try and justify their dislike just don't really hold water.

Excellent post and for anyone who doesn't want it, I'd like to hear who you'd rather because there is no one more qualified available.

Billy86

Jayop wrote: »

Erm, I did this on another forum a few weeks ago (April 5) so I'd have to update it since he's played games since then.



Now I would have been counting cup wins as 3 points because I wasn't just referring to the league.

His goals/assists this year have been in the following games...

Bruge - G3 - All goals in win.
Ipswich - G1 - First goal in win
Sunderland - G1 - Second goal in 3 nil win
Everton - G1 - Third goal in 3 nil win
CSKA - G1 - Only goal in win
Norwich - A1 - Only assist in loss
Swansea - G1 - Winning goal in 2-1 win
Sheffield - G1 - Only goal in win
Newcastle - G2 A1 - 2 goals and an assist in 3-3 draw
Liverpool - G1 - Only goal in win
Derby - G1 - Opening goal in 3-1 win
Stoke - G1 A1 - goal and assist in 3-0 win
Chelsea - A1 - Assist in 1-1 draw


There's no doubt he's been better in the cups this year but I do think it's really harsh to overly criticise his contribution this season. The team have been crap and our attacking players are all coming in for severe criticism apart from Martial and rashford.

A new manager, suitable tactics and freeing up the forward players to actually go out and do what they are capable of will make them all look much better.

I've never been a big fan of saying "player X scored the goal so they were worth the points" as it basically makes everyone but your goalscorers seem obsolete, and doesn't really even begin to tell the whole story. That said, not sure where you're getting 29 points from...

Rooney, 33 games:
Chelsea - assist - 1-1 draw - 1pt
Liverpool - goal - 2-1 win - 2pts (3pts total)
Newcastle - 2 goals, 1 assist, 3-3 draw - 1pt (4pts)
Swansea - goal - 2-1 win - 2pts (6pts)
CSKA - goal - 1-0 win - 2pts (8pts)
*Sheffield Utd - goal - 1-0 win - 2pts (10pts)

Every other game, take away his goals and assists and the result stays the same.

Compared to Rashford who in just 12 games has...
Villa - goal - 1-0 win - 2pts
City - goal - 1-0 win - 2pts (4pts)
Arsenal - 2 goals, assist - 3-2 win - 3pts (7pts)
*West Ham - goal - 2-1 win - 2pts (9pts)

As well as Martial, who in 43 games (albeit primarily on the wing) has...
West Ham - assist - 2-1 win - 2pts
Everton - goal - 1-0 win - 2pts (4pts)
Swansea - goal, assist - 2-1 win - 3pts (7pts)
Southampton - 2 goals - 3-2 win - 3pts (10pts)
CSKA - goal - 1-1 draw - 1pt (11pts)
*West Ham - goal - 1-1 draw - 1pt (12pts)
*Liverpool - assist - 1-1 draw - 1pt (13pts)

*FA/League Cup games, or EL knockout phase.

Rooney has been shown up this season, and badly, first by a highly priced teenager with about two seasons worth of senior experience prior to joining us, and now by an 18 year old who has come out of nowhere through the youth system. The simple fact is, right at this moment in time he isn't even our second best option in his position.

Pro. F

"Shown up"

NoviGlitzko

I'd hold out on judging any attacking players, especially players like Depay just yet because it's hard to tell how good a player he is under LVG's rigid system. If he doesn't prove himself next season under a manager who promotes attack, then I'd be happy to see him leave.

Billy86

Pro. F wrote: »

"Shown up"

Thanks for driving that home - he is being outscored by double by a teenager, and being matched for goals by a guy who turned 20 during the season and has been played out wide for much of the year. This despite the fact that Rooney takes about 30% more shots than Martial per 90 minutes, and nearly double Rashfords, he is the least efficient goalscorer of the three. Now Maybe I'm mental here, but I tend to expect more from a 30 year old captain on 300k+ a week than I do from an 18 year old in his first handful of games, or from a guy who only turned 20 a few months back, in his first season in the league. Yet Rooney isn't providing that and is the third most effective option right now.

He is still ahead of Memphis, for what that's worth.

Jayop

The hatred some people have for Rooney has for years baffled me. He's been poor this season but people have been on his case for years now ever since his first contract debacle.

Strumms

I think when you are Rooney in this situation you have 3 problems or 3 reasons why you are under the microscope more then any other play and why you are held to more scrutiny..

1. Club Captain
2. Top Earner
3. The standard he has set for himself as a United player over the years.

Point 3 probably the most important one seeing as he is so far away from the Rooney of old and he is hardly old enough as in past it to be in such a decline. It just looks like he has lost a lot of his desire. Times were if he lost the ball he would chase back so hard that if he couldn't win the ball back he was at least gonna kick the player who took it off him. A time where the idea at him running at a back four or even over a free kick close in would put fear into opponents. I want that Rooney back. I doubt even seeing his name on our team sheet would even strike fear into opponents as it certainly would have done once upon a time...

Pro. F

Billy86 wrote: »

Thanks for driving that home - he is being outscored by double by a teenager, and being matched for goals by a guy who turned 20 during the season and has been played out wide for much of the year. This despite the fact that Rooney takes about 30% more shots than Martial per 90 minutes, and nearly double Rashfords, he is the least efficient goalscorer of the three. Now Maybe I'm mental here, but I tend to expect more from a 30 year old captain on 300k+ a week than I do from an 18 year old in his first handful of games, or from a guy who only turned 20 a few months back, in his first season in the league. Yet Rooney isn't providing that and is the third most effective option right now.

He is still ahead of Memphis, for what that's worth.

Rashford has 543 minutes in the league. You should google "sample size" and discover why it's important.

And is Martial supposed to be something less than a freaking fantastic player now? I think you are wrong if that is what you believe.

Taking more shots is not a bad thing. Goal efficiency from shots is subject to wild variation and you need a sample of several seasons size before you can draw conclusions about shot efficiency. And that is when you differentiate on quality of chances, which you aren't even doing.

jayo26

Rashford is going great and all that but infairness he has come into a team with fuk all expectations left for the season with little pressure on him he is on a crest of a wave at moment same as we all said about kane last year let's see how he goes next season will he grab a chance when he is given one.

I remember someone here think it was that jambo fella or something saying we should sign bass doost instead of Lukaku I think it was because he had a great goals to ratio but they all came in a run and a few games but where is doost now?? He is a goal every 3 games in a poor league and 1 in 6 in champs league.

Anyway point been as much as i love seen rashford I wouldnt be talking him up before rooney yet.

Rant over and sorry jambo if it wasn't you.

Pro. F

I'm very excited about Rashford too by the way.

But him scoring a few goals in a few games in not a sensible reason to be complaining about Rooney.

deaddonkey15

I see it's back to being all Rooney's fault now that he's back fit again.

Jayop

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I see it's back to being all Rooney's fault now that he's back fit again.

Hopefully he'll shut a few people up at the weekend against Everton. Got one earlier in the year at goodison so would be nice to see him get a winner at Wembley.

Jayop

I'm trying to think of the last time we played a cup game at Wembley. At a bit of a loss really. 2013 Against Wigan in the Community Shield is the last time we were there iirc but have we played a proper game there since the 2010 League cup final against Villa?

Korat

Rooney has definitely been in decline for a few years now and it's a bit of a waste of 300k a week for what he produces but maybe another manager could get more out of him.

Jayop

Jayop wrote: »

I'm trying to think of the last time we played a cup game at Wembley. At a bit of a loss really. 2013 Against Wigan in the Community Shield is the last time we were there iirc but have we played a proper game there since the 2010 League cup final against Villa?

Just found it. 2011 Champions League final against Barca. We played there in the FA cup semi against City that year too.

Jayop

I thought it was established that he wasn't actually earning 300k p/w. It's still being bandied around as a stick to beat him with.

TBH I don't care what a player earns. Less money for the Glazers to trouser and at least Rooney has given pretty much a full career of service to the club.

Edit: Yeah it's supposed to be 260k pre tax. Good luck to him.

jayo26

Spurs showing a great demonstration of counter attack football in past 15 mins.

Korat

Jayop wrote: »

I thought it was established that he wasn't actually earning 300k p/w. It's still being bandied around as a stick to beat him with.

TBH I don't care what a player earns. Less money for the Glazers to trouser and at least Rooney has given pretty much a full career of service to the club.

Edit: Yeah it's supposed to be 260k pre tax. Good luck to him.

Do you think the wage bill is infinite?

The Glazers have demanded the club cut costs so it seems perverse that there will be cut backs in other areas of the club while Rooney is being paid far more than he's actually worth.

I wouldn't care what he was paid if he was performing well but he hasn't been for over two years so what he earns is very relevant to discussions of his worth to the team.

Billy86

Pro. F wrote: »

Rashford has 543 minutes in the league. You should google "sample size" and discover why it's important.

And is Martial supposed to be something less than a freaking fantastic player now? I think you are wrong if that is what you believe.

Taking more shots is not a bad thing. Goal efficiency from shots is subject to wild variation and you need a sample of several seasons size before you can draw conclusions about shot efficiency. And that is when you differentiate on quality of chances, which you aren't even doing.

Scoring more goals, from less shots, at a higher goal-per-game ratio is simply better. It's really not debatable in any way, shape or form. You are the one who wanted to use statistical comparisons, now you're telling me they don't count because the sample size isn't big enough? Don't go backtracking too quickly now!

Martial is a quality player, and he is also a guy who was a teenager for half the season while playing out of position, in a wide spot (something you've made plenty of excuses for with Rooney down the years), at a whole new club in a whole new country.

The fact is, this season Rooney has been comfortably outperformed by an 18 year old and a guy who turned 20 half way through the year.

So let me ask you this, if you could only start 2 on the weekend of Rooney, Rashford and Martial, who would you go with?

Rayne Wooney

Spurs are what we should be

jayo26

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Spurs are what we should be

Leicester City are where we would love to be....


Imagine a David moyes press conference now the line that would be given out...

Leicester City yes we should aspire to play like them.

Billy86

jayo26 wrote: »

Rashford is going great and all that but infairness he has come into a team with fuk all expectations left for the season with little pressure on him he is on a crest of a wave at moment same as we all said about kane last year let's see how he goes next season will he grab a chance when he is given one.

I remember someone here think it was that jambo fella or something saying we should sign bass doost instead of Lukaku I think it was because he had a great goals to ratio but they all came in a run and a few games but where is doost now?? He is a goal every 3 games in a poor league and 1 in 6 in champs league.

Anyway point been as much as i love seen rashford I wouldnt be talking him up before rooney yet.

Rant over and sorry jambo if it wasn't you.

Should add I'm not saying to offload everyone and make Rashford out default #1 guy as we have popped Martial out wide for now at least. But for the rest of the season he is simply our most in-form striker, and one of (if not the) most in-form strikers in the entire league. He is showing the excuses made that 'nobody could score goals in this team!' are not necessarily true, and he also makes someone like a Zlatan (as an example) a more viable prospect for a year or two, than having to break the bank on a Harry Kane if that were to mean neglecting other positions.

For the next five league games (and FA Cup semi & hopefully final) he has to be our go to guy, for the long term hopefully he develops into the world class striker he is looking like he might have it in him to be, though there could be some growing pains in the middle for 2 years or so where it really could help to have a world class guy in there for him to have to 'earn' his place ahead of.

bucketybuck

Poor Rashford is all I can say.

We can't just have a great prospect doing well, he has to be the most inform striker in the league (he isn't) and our next world class player. No pressure on the lad at all! Our go-to guy? Christ.

And this at the same club as Januzaj, for whom it all might look a little familiar.

Billy86

bucketybuck wrote: »

Poor Rashford is all I can say.

We can't just have a great prospect doing well, he has to be the most inform striker in the league (he isn't) and our next world class player. No pressure on the lad at all! Our go-to guy? Christ.

And this at the same club as Januzaj, for whom it all might look a little familiar.

For the next 5 league games and 1-2 in the cup, absolutely. Or would you rather we shoehorn Rooney back in and fit rashford around him for the remainder of the season?

If Rashford is not one of the most in form strikers in the league right now, that would mean there are numerous guys in better form than him. Who would they be?

Why do you think he does not have the potential to be world class down the line?

bucketybuck

Billy86 wrote: »

For the next 5 league games and 1-2 in the cup, absolutely. Or would you rather we shoehorn Rooney back in and fit rashford around him for the remainder of the season?

If Rashford is not one of the most in form strikers in the league right now, that would mean there are numerous guys in better form than him. Who would they be?

I'd put Rooney in there precisely to take pressure of Rashford, I'd most definitely fit Rashford around him just to give the kid a chance to breath. In fact, with **** all to play for it sounds like a great idea, Rooney, Martial and Rashford up front with everybody watching Rooney because of the euros. Perfect.

Pro. F

Billy86 wrote: »

Scoring more goals, from less shots, at a higher goal-per-game ratio is simply better. It's really not debatable in any way, shape or form. You are the one who wanted to use statistical comparisons, now you're telling me they don't count because the sample size isn't big enough? Don't go backtracking too quickly now!

Of course it is debatable. If you want to believe that all data is equally informative and that sample size is irrelevant then you are free to believe that, but obviously you will end up with nonsense conclusions based off that type of thinking.

Here is a link explaining how big the samples need to be in order to get reliable information out of shot efficiency data.

You're going to have to find your own basic explanations of the importance of sample size, I couldn't be bothered humouring that level of discussion.

Billy86 wrote: »

Martial is a quality player, and he is also a guy who was a teenager for half the season while playing out of position, in a wide spot (something you've made plenty of excuses for with Rooney down the years), at a whole new club in a whole new country.

The fact is, this season Rooney has been comfortably outperformed by an 18 year old and a guy who turned 20 half way through the year.

Being young and new to the league does not preclude Martial from being excellent. He is an excellent player. Rooney having similar scoring and better creating numbers than Martial this season is actually an okay thing.

Sure Rooney could do with having more goals (considering Martial is playing on the wing as you say), but his numbers just aren't that bad. Nowhere near bad enough for the complaining you are doing, when you consider how badly the manager has affected the team's overall play.

Billy86 wrote: »

So let me ask you this, if you could only start 2 on the weekend of Rooney, Rashford and Martial, who would you go with?

Rashford and Martial. Rooney is just back from injury and Rashford is on fire at the moment.

Jayop

Korat wrote: »

Do you think the wage bill is infinite?

The Glazers have demanded the club cut costs so it seems perverse that there will be cut backs in other areas of the club while Rooney is being paid far more than he's actually worth.

I wouldn't care what he was paid if he was performing well but he hasn't been for over two years so what he earns is very relevant to discussions of his worth to the team.

Where have they said we need to cut costs. I've not read that anywhere.

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Spurs are what we should be

Aye, I'd love Poch to be the new manager. Won't happen now though.