Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning link in OP 20/3

TheDoc

Football 365's Top Ten Lists are coming out week to week, normally an interesting and good set of lists.

Top 10 Defensive midfielders was today, and Schneiderlan dropped(unsurprisingly) three places. although thought the paragraph was pretty spot on. We have a top CM here, who Van Gaal has been omitting, or leaving desperately isolated.

The first of only two players on this list who also made last year’s, yet Schneiderlin’s three dropped places indicate that his first campaign as a Manchester United player has hardly been a roaring success.

There are two distinct reasons for that. Firstly, Louis van Gaal inexplicably excluded Schneiderlin from his starting team for a number of key fixtures: Liverpool (h – Europa), PSV Eindhoven (a), Arsenal (a), Wolfsburg (a), Leicester (a) and Chelsea (a). United’s record in those six matches was three draws and three defeats.

The second factor was a lack of regular partner. The biggest achievers this season (Leicester, Tottenham and West Ham) have all relied on a central midfield partnership: Kante and Drinkwater, Dier and Dembele, Noble and Kouyate. Schneiderlin has been joined by one of a fading Bastian Schweinsteiger, an ageing Michael Carrick or an ineffective Marouane Fellaini. Even at Southampton, Schneiderlin had Victor Wanyama for support.

Fix that second issue this summer, and Schneiderlin could easily make the top three next season. Protecting a defence is a damn difficult job when you’re doing it alone.

TheDoc

Jayop wrote: »

Thank God Smalling won the player of the year and not Blind. Christ anyone but Blind.

You are aware there are two awards, the players player and fan nominated player.

The fans nominated one is surely more prestigious.

The players player one is really on criteria that fans most likely will never be aware of, as it likely takes in stuff like attitude, dressing room stuff and training stuff.

For us the Fans Player of the Year is probably the more aptly placed award as it will be focused on the matchday and what we see.

ScummyMan

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Nope, have posted it a few times but I have always expected him to return for another year. Lads building up hope on media rumors when the club have been silent for months now have only themselves to blame (no offence)

Quotes like last nights crap though would just piss you right off

If change is wanted alot more drastic stuff will need to happen, protests from supporters, supporters clubs and shareholders.
All the complaining going on on social media etc and yet every home game I see people look content, bored maybe but nothing that screams "absolutely sick of LVG"
Please note: I haven't been to a home game since April 2015 due to family priorities but I will be going over next season so hard for me to fully stand behind the above comment but still it's the feeling I get.

I would be more worried of turning into Arsenal 2.0
Years and years of scrapping for top 4 without challenging for the PL / CL

I think the club staying silent says a lot. You would think that if they were committed to Van Gaal they would come out and back him and put an end to the rumours.

I still think Mourinho will be here this summer. Di Marzio in particular has put his neck on the chopping block repeatedly saying this, and I've yet to see him be wrong.

Cantona's Collars

A Bola saying United are to bid £55 million for Joao Mario.By all accounts this fella is top drawer and rated highly.

Polo_Mint

I believe Mourinho will be our Manager in a few weeks

Unearthly

markcahill1985 wrote: »

Martin Tyler mentioned that Kante had a release clause during the game on Sunday but didnt state the amount, reports now thats its just 20.5m GBP, bargain..

http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/tottenham-favourites-for-26m-midfielder-ahead-of-unconvincing-lon

If this is true...buy buy buy buy

zerks

zerks wrote: »

I was at the Everton game and despite the show put on for Bobby Charlton,the atmosphere was just flat.Everton were there to be taken to the cleaners but United were so one dimensional in their play after a decent 20 minutes everyone was bored.This sums up 99.9% of this season,one which was meant to kick on from last years transition.The running joke was that the football was the only downer on a great weekend in Manchester.
What really pisses me off is the fans clamouring for high fives etc. with LVG as he walks along pitchside despite them having witnessed borefest after borefest.

This speaks volumes and is part of the problem

And I for one supported LVG as far as I feasibly could but enough was enough at Xmas 2015 for me personally

Cypher_sounds

markcahill1985 wrote: »

Martin Tyler mentioned that Kante had a release clause during the game on Sunday but didnt state the amount, reports now thats its just 20.5m GBP, bargain..

http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/tottenham-favourites-for-26m-midfielder-ahead-of-unconvincing-lon

He had a great season but many felt Morgan Schneiderlin had a great season for the saints last year.
Look how he has played this season, a shadow of the form he showed last season just like Depay and previously Di Maria.

I firmly believe the manager is the problem, he obviously can't get the best out of the players. We have some very good players, a nice mix of youth and experience but the tactics and lack of guile leave a lot to be desired.

Cantona's Collars

M!Ck^ wrote: »

This speaks volumes and is part of the problem

And I for one supported LVG as far as I feasibly could but enough was enough at Xmas 2015 for me personally

Same as that,I kept thinking "once the players grasp his style of play we'll be grand" but it was disappointment following disappointment.£250 million spent and we are relying on kids that came through the Academy (Martial excepted and he's only 19).
You know it's bad when you find yourself dozing off watching games and still miss nothing exciting.

Billy86

Unearthly wrote: »

If this is true...buy buy buy buy

Schneiderlin, Herrera, Kante... depth of Renato Sanches, Schweinsteiger, and Fellaini (still not a fan but can admit he's proven to be able to fill a role)... that would be a pretty serious midfield if you ask me!

Add a CB to compete with Blind, a legit top drawer right winger and a striker to that and I'd be feeling pretty good about our squad... one positive I guess we can take from this season is a glut of defensive options we didn't know we had (or didn't know we could trust) a year or two ago.

Billy86

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

He had a great season but many felt Morgan Schneiderlin had a great season for the saints last year.
Look how he has played this season, a shadow of the form he showed last season just like Depay and previously Di Maria.

I firmly believe the manager is the problem, he obviously can't get the best out of the players. We have some very good players, a nice mix of youth and experience but the tactics and lack of guile leave a lot to be desired.

Personally I love the idea of a three man midfield with someone dynamic like Kante/Sanches to do leg work and add physicality, Schneiderlin in the middle playing a box-to-box type role with proper freedom thanks to said dynamic DM/CM behind him, and Herrera stringing things together from the front while also being able to get back and help defensively as required.

Add Shaw hopefully staying fit and in form on the left, Darmian/Fosu Mensah on the right, Blind/Smalling/DDG at the base of the formation (hopefully with another CB to compete), and I really do like the look of what we have to build with, with some of the right additions. But up front and out wide would still require considerable work.

Mitch Connor

For me it doesn't matter who we sign, if LVG isn't replaced we will finish 4th at best again next season.

Honestly I think if LVG was sacked in December like he should have been and replaced with Mourinho we'd have easily qualified for the CL and possibly mounted a bit of a title tilt.

Flint Fredstone

Mitch Connor wrote: »

For me it doesn't matter who we sign, if LVG isn't replaced we will finish 4th at best again next season.

Honestly I think if LVG was sacked in December like he should have been and replaced with Mourinho we'd have easily qualified for the CL and possibly mounted a bit of a title tilt.

For all we know that's what they wanted to do but Mourinho for whatever reason wouldn't or couldn't.

Mitch Connor

Mitch Connor wrote: »

For me it doesn't matter who we sign, if LVG isn't replaced we will finish 4th at best again next season.

Honestly I think if LVG was sacked in December like he should have been and replaced with Mourinho we'd have easily qualified for the CL and possibly mounted a bit of a title tilt.

Out of interest what if he didn't achieve the above?
I for one wouldn't be expecting a sudden turn around
Whoever comes in needs time again

Mitch Connor

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

For all we know that's what they wanted to do but Mourinho for whatever reason wouldn't or couldn't.

I've seen nothing but baseless speculation for that to be the case - by people trying to defend United or Woodward. There has been nothing credible to point to that being a possibility. Anywhere. The only mentions of clauses in the sacking of Jose by Chelsea was that he would be paid until the end of the season, or the point at which he got a new job, whichever came sooner - nothing about him being on gardening leave (so not allowed to take a new job).

Everything I have seen points to Jose wanting the job and United simply not giving it to him (or anyone). And it feels like that is going to continue, and further ruin United. Woodward might have reasons for it - maybe he simply doesn't want Jose - but as I say, nothing points to United wanting to appoint Mourinho in December and not being able to.

Mitch Connor

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Out of interest what if he didn't achieve the above?
I for one wouldn't be expecting a sudden turn around
Whoever comes in needs time again

If he hadn't have achieved the above I would have judged him on the football played - and i'd see where my opinion lay then.

If Jose (or whoever) comes in and only has us fighting (and being on the losing side of it) for 4th spot I will consider them a failure as I do LVG. Whether I would like to see them given a second season will depend on the football played and any context or mitigating circumstances.

4th place should be a minimum target for United and challenging for the title should be considered the standard season - less than those are failures and steps should be taken to rectify those failures. I was willing to give LVG this season, but he failed to learn anything from last season so off with his head I say.

If he is still United manager in August United are simply accepting being also-rans and have no intention or ambition in putting in the work required to be the best. I see absolutely zero ways to argue against that - LVG doesn't see where he has gone wrong - it is the fans who expect too much, the players who've been injured too much, the media who have destabilised United. None of it is his fault, and thats why he simply cannot and should not be trusted to fix what is broken.

adox

I still firmly believe Mourhino will be the manager next season.

Flint Fredstone

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I've seen nothing but baseless speculation for that to be the case - by people trying to defend United or Woodward. There has been nothing credible to point to that being a possibility. Anywhere. The only mentions of clauses in the sacking of Jose by Chelsea was that he would be paid until the end of the season, or the point at which he got a new job, whichever came sooner - nothing about him being on gardening leave (so not allowed to take a new job).

Everything I have seen points to Jose wanting the job and United simply not giving it to him (or anyone). And it feels like that is going to continue, and further ruin United. Woodward might have reasons for it - maybe he simply doesn't want Jose - but as I say, nothing points to United wanting to appoint Mourinho in December and not being able to.

Not much point arguing it so if you're dismissing it on the basis of stuff you read.
My whole point is that stuff we read should all be taken with a pinch of salt. There could be any number of different scenarios playing out that we are unaware of.
I'm sure I read before that Jose didn't believe in taking over a club mid way through a season but I wouldn't use it as a fact to back it up.

Kirby

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Out of interest what if he didn't achieve the above?
I for one wouldn't be expecting a sudden turn around
Whoever comes in needs time again

Time yes but a reasonable amount of time. Knee jerk reactions after a few months are ridiculous but its fairly obvious after a couple of seasons whether its working or not.

It was obvious before the 2 year mark hit with LVG that it wasnt working. Two seasons. Thats plenty of time to recruit new players and get a team playing the way you envision. If the results aren't good after that, surely they have to go? Most managers get a lot less time.

sky88

adox wrote: »

I still firmly believe Mourhino will be the manager next season.

Im with you on this i think there just letting LVG finish off the season for some reason and were hoping he could turn it around and finish 4th.

Granted i dont want jose as i feel we will be back here in 2 seasons time looking for a new manager after jose blows up which has happened has happened in most of his jobs so far except inter.

Liam McPoyle

sky88 wrote: »

Im with you on this i think there just letting LVG finish off the season for some reason and were hoping he could turn it around and finish 4th.

Granted i dont want jose as i feel we will be back here in 2 seasons time looking for a new manager after jose blows up which has happened has happened in most of his jobs so far except inter.

What about Porto?

Theres also the fact that Chelsea is Romans toy / a circus and Madrid is the toy / circus of whomever happens to be club president.

How many managers have lasted at either of those?

DARK-KNIGHT

Mitch Connor wrote: »

For me it doesn't matter who we sign, if LVG isn't replaced we will finish 4th at best again next season.

Honestly I think if LVG was sacked in December like he should have been and replaced with Mourinho we'd have easily qualified for the CL and possibly mounted a bit of a title tilt.

ill call it here if lvg is at united next season forget top 4 we would be lucky to finish 5th imo

Giggsy11

https://twitter.com/MailSport/status/727521499972788224

Antibac

Giggsy11 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MailSport/status/727521499972788224

That's both their Seasons done

Minderbinder

I don't mind people wanting LVG to go but I find it mind boggling that the majority of United fans here want Jose Mourinho to replace him. I thought it might take a bit longer for the fans to sell their souls.

And hardly a mention of Blanc who would be in many ways a more logical choice.

Liam McPoyle

Minderbinder wrote: »

I don't mind people wanting LVG to go but I find it mind boggling that the majority of United fans here want Jose Mourinho to replace him. I thought it might take a bit longer for the fans to sell their souls.

And hardly a mention of Blanc who would be in many ways a more logical choice.

Logical choice how?

Because he has won a pitiful league with the one team than can out spend their rivals by any amount they want.

If winning a shyte league at a canter is the litmus test for our next manager then why don't we appoint Ronny Delia?

jayo26

Minderbinder wrote: »

I don't mind people wanting LVG to go but I find it mind boggling that the majority of United fans here want Jose Mourinho to replace him. I thought it might take a bit longer for the fans to sell their souls.

And hardly a mention of Blanc who would be in many ways a more logical choice.

How is it selling your sould wanting the most successful manager in the past 15 years to join your club???

Blanc has won the league in a one team league he has not achieved anything in Europe he hasn't progressed psg and seems happy to pick up a paycheck every year in the knowledge he can't fail.

Minderbinder

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

Logical choice how?

Because he has won a pitiful league with the one team than can out spend their rivals by any amount they want.

If winning a shyte league at a canter is the litmus test for our next manager then why don't we appoint Ronny Delia?

How old are you?

You may not remember but he also broke the dominance of Lyon with an unfancied Bordeaux team. He won a league and a cup with Bordeaux and reached the quarter finals of the CL. He nourished some of their young talent into champions.

Although PSG were knocked out by City I think they have been excellent in the Champions League under him and just haven't got the luck sometimes needed to win it.

sky88

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

What about Porto?

Theres also the fact that Chelsea is Romans toy / a circus and Madrid is the toy / circus of whomever happens to be club president.

How many managers have lasted at either of those?

I forgot to add porto.

But its clear this time with chelsea it was a complete breakdown with the player the same as madrid.

yes madrid is a nightmare to manage but its two jobs in a row were his relationship with players has completely broken down. It cant be just the players egos getting in the way this is Jose too.

A lot of the fans that are calling for Jose are the ones who want things done the United Way which will never happen with jose.

adox

"Sell their souls"

You've gotta laugh.

Minderbinder

jayo26 wrote: »

How is it selling your sould wanting the most successful manager in the past 15 years to join your club???

Because I remember the vast majority of United fans didn't want Mourinho to replace Ferguson and were always labeling him boring (and rightly so). United are traditionally an exciting team and want to play attractive football.

But now they want this guy who has had a fairly indifferent last few years to come in and make us into Chelsea 2. Because that's exactly what would happen, best case scenario. He doesn't have the capability to produce a beautiful team to watch. He'll bring the unpleasant personality and the gamesmanship and the players still won't have any freedom to express themselves. The young players won't get a chance. We'll be ugly to watch. We won't be Manchester United any more, and by making this appointment I think it's a sign that we've stopped trying to be Manchester United.

Maybe you could say the same about LVG but even Van Gaal is more naturally in tune with the culture of United than Mourinho.

bmcc10

Minderbinder wrote: »

How old are you?

You may not remember but he also broke the dominance of Lyon with an unfancied Bordeaux team. He won a league and a cup with Bordeaux and reached the quarter finals of the CL. He nourished some of their young talent into champions.

Although PSG were knocked out by City I think they have been excellent in the Champions League under him and just haven't got the luck sometimes needed to win it.

Also made Chamakh look decent his biggest achievement as a manager i'd say

Giggsy11

Minderbinder wrote: »

I don't mind people wanting LVG to go but I find it mind boggling that the majority of United fans here want Jose Mourinho to replace him. I thought it might take a bit longer for the fans to sell their souls.

And hardly a mention of Blanc who would be in many ways a more logical choice.

Still can't believe people use "sell their souls" thing when it comes to appointing manager in a football.

Minderbinder

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Still can't believe people use "sell their souls" thing when it comes to appointing manager in a football.

It's just an expression. Get over it. It means that throughout the history of club (or at least since Busby) the fans have expected to win with style and now for the first time they seem to be resigned to being like any other club.

Do you understand that now? So could we stop fixating on an expression and talk about the actual topic?

Trigger

Minderbinder wrote: »

It's just an expression. Get over it. It means that throughout the history of club (or at least since Busby) the fans have expected to win with style and now for the first time they seem to be resigned to being like any other club.

Do you understand that now? So could we stop fixating on an expression and talk about the actual topic?

Whats your definition on this?

Liam McPoyle

I've said it before and I will say it again.

Winning is what matters.

The romantic view of "the United way" ended with Fergie.

There are a handful of teams that play beautiful football and back that up with trophies.

Arsenal are a prime example of some breathtaking football with little or no reward.

Ask any Arsenal fan which they would rather, to play sexy football and be perennial 4th place contenders or play like Stoke and win the league.

I'd reckon you would be hard pressed to find many or any in the former category.

The fact the PL is more competitive nowadays than any league in the world.

With the influx of TV money from this summer that competitiveness will only intensify.

Mourinho is a proven winner, time and time again, that is a fact.

I wanted him when Fergie left.

I'd take him now in a heart beat.

People use the schtick that he plays defensive dour football which is bullshyt, he adapts the style as the need dictates, as any world class manager should do.

People use his short tenures at Chelsea and Madrid as something to beat him with. Did he not win league titles at all 3 appointments?

Nobody is debating that he can be a gowl and that if we did appoint him there is an element of risk but those that are writing him off before he even gets the job are as short sighted as those that pine for The United Way.

Lord TSC

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

The romantic view of "the United way" ended with Fergie.

Agree with the rest of your post, but disagree with this line.

The romantic view of "the United way" began when Fergie left.

Fergie was a "win at all costs" manager. He would play "attractive" football when he could, but was more than capable of playing boring when he had to. He gave kids chances but only once the older players were solid as a foundation, and often chose senior players out of position over kids (Rafael over Pogba springs to mind).

The primary goal under Fergie was to win, no matter what. "The United Way" is something that has been created and romanticized by those looking to excuse the mistakes made since he left, and by people wanting to shift priorities because some are harder to achieve than others.

Jose Mourinho is probably the closest you will ever get to Fergie in the modern game. He might not tick the "Long term" box on the sheet, but he ticks nearly every other box in the comparison.

Giggsy11

Minderbinder wrote: »

It's just an expression. Get over it. It means that throughout the history of club (or at least since Busby) the fans have expected to win with style and now for the first time they seem to be resigned to being like any other club.

Do you understand that now? So could we stop fixating on an expression and talk about the actual topic?

Might be about time we step into real world then. "United way" "winning in style" is all just marketing terms and nothing more.

Rayne Wooney

Mourinho will win us league titles he just needs the blood of 3 youth players as a sacrifice

Discodog

Maybe, just maybe, LvG's comment about only wanting two years is his get out clause. He could leave & claim that he was right all along.

bucketybuck

He can claim whatever he wants just as long as he leaves!

Billy86

Antibac wrote: »

That's both their Seasons done

And Huth could not give a Hoop.

Flint Fredstone

Will Fellaini be ruled out of the cup final?

Trigger

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Will Fellaini be ruled out of the cup final?

If its a three match ban it will just be the league games

StringerBell

astradave wrote: »

If its a three match ban it will just be the league games

Being Fellaini I expect it to be a 6 games, or death.

Could realistically have played his last game for the club depending on how things go in the summer.

Trigger

StringerBell wrote: »

Being Fellaini I expect it to be a 6 games, or death.

Could realistically have played his last game for the club depending on how things go in the summer.

Has he ever been charged with violent conduct before? I can't recall. I fully expect them both to receive a 3 match ban and Fellaini to be on the bench at Wembley, come on, score the winner with the last touch of the game, take of his top and reveal an "I Bangkok" teeshirt

Rayne Wooney

I actually think Simeone is worse than Mourinho for the cheating to be honest

Quandary

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I actually think Simeone is worse than Mourinho for the cheating to be honest

And if he was our cheater managing us to win leagues and doing everything possible to win we would love him for it

Just like we will love Jose!

Jayop

StringerBell wrote: »

Being Fellaini I expect it to be a 6 games, or death.

Could realistically have played his last game for the club depending on how things go in the summer.

It'll be a 3 match ban and no more. He'll start the final then he's gone to Roma.

Jayop

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I actually think Simeone is worse than Mourinho for the cheating to be honest

What cheating has Mourinho actually done? I know some people have issues with his tactics, but has he ever actually been found to have cheated?